GlobalSecurity.org - Reliable WMD News and WMD Information

When the Defence Minister tried to make a provocative statement against China and against Pakistan, particularly against China, the Prime Minister's office issued a statement on May 6th which was reported :

"In what appears to be a damage control exercise, the Government today reiterated its commitment to the process of dialogue for normalisation of relations and development of friendly, cooperative and good neighbourly and mutually beneficial ties with China."

In the statement issued here today, the official spokesman of the Ministry of External Affairs--the portfolio is held by the the Prime Minister-- emphasised the continuing relevance of the five principles of peaceful coexistence jointly enunciated by the two countries for the development of the bilateral ties. I do not want to read the entire news which has appeared.

Sir, he was the Minister of External Affairs in 1979. Not only as the Minister of External Affairs, even as the Leader of the Opposition, his contribution to the foreign policy was appreciated by the whole House, and even as Prime Minister, we did not have any grouse. But we are also equally concerned about the way in which things have been handled from 19th March onwards. We were not so much competent or courageous to take decisions. I was in office for 11 months.

Sir, what was the threat perception? The dispute between India and Pakistan over Kashmir and the border dispute between India and China, as you have quoted in your letter, have been there since the last 15 years. There is nothing new about it. The hon. Home Minister cited the reasons of militancy and insurgency. They are also not new.

Sir, after the present Prime Minister visited China in 1979 as the then Minister of External Affairs, Shri Rajiv Gandhi visited China in 1988, and subsequently, Shri Narasimha Rao also visited that country in 1993. When the President of China visited our country, I broke the protocol and I had myself gone to the airport to receive him. I think that was for the first time that a Prime Minister of the country had gone to the airport to receive the dignitary of our neighbouring country. I broke the protocol purposely and we entered into a Treaty, the Confidence Building Treaty. What had happened after that? The Prime Minister should enlighten the House, because he has got every material with him. I do not want to say what the RAW report was, what the IB report was, and what the Defence Intelligence said. The Defence Minister, Shri George Fernandes tried to cite the reports of the Standing Committee on Defence as a reason for this. Those reports are not the only basis for taking such a major decision.

Sir, during 1997-98, our trade with China had gone up by $1.75 billion, if I am correct. Our trade with China had improved last year and our bilateral talks were going on. In such a situation, can you cite the security threat as one of the major reasons for taking this courageous decision. Yesterday, the hon. Home Minister tried to enlighten the House by saying that the Government wanted to put an end to insurgency activities which are encouraged by our neighbouring country, Pakistan. If they are going to achieve that by showing the bomb today, we welcome that.

Sir, the nuclear capability of this country was proved in 1974 itself. In 1974, when Madam Gandhi was the Prime Minister the first Pokhran Test was conducted. At that time, the Congress Party did not try to take credit by taking the sand from the test site and go round the country. Madam Gandhi did not stoop to that level or Madam Gandhi had not asked her party to go and construct a temple there or a `Shakti Peeth'.

SHRI VAIKO (SIVAKASI): But all the Opposition political parties gave credit to her.

SHRI H.D. DEVEGOWDA: The Prime Minister is here to reply if I have said anything wrong.

1809 hours (Mr. Speaker in the Chair)

I was heading a coalition Government consisting of 13 parties and I had not secured a clear mandate. So, to take a decision on the CTBT, we had consulted all the major political parties and took them into confidence. In a changed political situation like this, if you want the cooperation of the entire country, the entire Opposition, you must also have the magnanimity to take the Opposition into confidence. That is what is needed. Why is the House divided today? Where is the need for us to speak in two voices? Are we not patriots?

SQN. LDR. KAMAL CHAUDHRY (HOSHIARPUR): There are certain issues in which official secrecy is very important.

SHRI H.D. DEVEGOWDA: Please do not disturb me. I have been sitting in the back bench and I have never interrupted anybody. I will be the last person to do that. I feel that I have got a right to tell this House the things which have gone wrong.

Sir, in eleven months, we tried to follow the policies of the previous Government. We tried to solve the Bangladesh issue and Ganga water issue with the cooperation of all the parties. We also tried to solve even the Nepal issue and Mahalaxami Treaty. We tried to improve the relations with all our neighbours. Even with Pakistan, the official level talks began before I resigned on 7th April, 1997 ... (Interruptions)

SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN (CHANDIGARH): Sir, the time of the House has to be extended ... (Interruptions).

SHRI H.D. DEVEGOWDA (HASSAN): There is no need for me to violate the ruling of the hon. Speaker ... (Interruptions)

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (BARAMATI): Sir, please extend the time up to the Prime Minister's reply.

THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF TOURISM (SHRI MADAN LAL KHURANA): Sir, the time of the House has to be extended.

MR. SPEAKER: The time of the House is extended up to 7 p.m.

SHRI H.D. DEVEGOWDA (HASSAN): Sir, some people try to argue the point regarding secrecy. Yes, secrecy is an important issue and is the most pivotal point. As per the Press reports, on April 23rd a leader in Madhya Pradesh - I do not want to take the name of the leader - said that be ready for the sanctions. They are patriotic because they can know these important and secret issues. We are not patriotic. The problem is this.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): What is the level of that leader?

SHRI H.D. DEVEGOWDA (HASSAN): He is a Joint Secretary of a particular organisation. The chief of the organisation says that the nuclear weapon is cheaper so why do you want to have conventional weapons like Bofors Guns, Sukoi-30, etc. He asks, why do you want to spend money unnecessarily on these weapons when the nuclear weapons are so cheaper? I am talking on the basis of the Press reports. Otherwise, there is no other agency for me to have the information. The seniormost Member of this House from this side mentioned... (Interruptions).

SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA): The seniormost Member is Shri Indrajit Gupta.

SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (MIDNAPORE): But I was also a Minister. So, that period is cut off.

SHRI H.D. DEVEGOWDA (HASSAN): The mouth piece and the organizer of one of the newspapers highlights so many things.

Sir, according to them, this secrecy has to be maintained, but how could all these organisations or the media highlight this? Please tell us how you expect cooperation from us if you have no confidence in us even to discuss this important issue and take us into confidence, which you have promised on the very first day. You have not kept up your words and that is all I would like to say.

How was this Pokhran-II test conducted? It was a hidden capability. I can only say that nobody has doubted about India's capability. Otherwise, where was the need for the superpower to force us to sign the CTBT? If they have considered that this country is not capable, they would not have put so much of pressure on us. They know it. It was a hidden capability which we tried to maintain in the interest of maintaining our relations with our neighbours, especially in the sub-continent. Now, we have demonstrated that capability. We must compliment our scientists and there is no question of two opinions on that. There are some people who give different versions, but I do not want to enter into that controversy now.

Our former Prime Minister, Shri I.K. Gujral, has mentioned about some of the steps that he had taken after he laid down his office to improve the relations with the United States, U.K., and other countries. Not only that, just half-an-hour ago, he has also spelt out in this House the details of the bilateral discussions which took place between the Prime Minister of Pakistan and himself. Attempts were being made to minimise the tensions.

Now, with this test, we have demonstrated our strength and capability. On the question of whether we are going to weaponise, which is what the Defence Minister has said, I am not going to comment, and it is for the Government to decide on that.

Sir, in the National Agenda for Governance -- I will try to cut short my speech because I do not want to make a lengthy speech on this -- you have made so many promises. I am not going to doubt your intentions. But today, how are you going to keep up those promises? When the hon. Prime Minister visited the blast site, he gave a new slogan. "Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan" was the slogan given by Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri. The hon. Prime Minister gave the slogan of "Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan and Jai Vigyan". You have said that 60 per cent of the developmental grants would be provided for agriculture and rural development.

Can you keep up the promise tomorrow? I would like to ask this question.

I addressed a letter to the hon. Prime Minister when this matter came up before me. I do not want to reveal the discussion which took place between me and the two scientists. Lot of secrecy is there. I do not want to reveal that. When I took the ultimate decision not to give permission for the test, it was my primary concern because I am coming from rural areas and I am a farmer. I do not hesitate to tell this. My primary concern was to solve the problem of the suffering rural masses of this country. That is the reason which I have quoted in my letter which I have written to you on 15th May.

My friend Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav was telling certain details of our capability. Some of our friends try to question it and say that it is going to help our enemy. Nothing is secret. Everything has been printed, what is China's capability and our capability and Pakistan's capability, our army size and our warheads and everything. I do not want to repeat all these things. There is nothing new. Today our country's position is known to others and the neighbouring countries' position is also known to us.

You say that now damage is controlled. How and on what lines is it controlled? What are the measures which you would like to take to control the damage? Please take us into confidence. We may differ in decisions because of certain factors which I have mentioned. It is not a party issue. Is it with your consent that your Party people have done it? I am not going to elaborate. Many of the Ministers, senior Ministers and Cabinet Ministers have given quotations of what many of the people said about the tests and you have addressed official quarters about the bold decision which you have taken. Is it not a fact that you have done all this to take political mileage out of this so called euphoria that you have created? If you expect the country should be together in fighting such a vital issue, then this type of shortsightedness is not going to help. I came to know that preparations are going on in Rajasthan for the erection of the temple. Is it there in the national agenda for governance? What is the promise which you have made? I am not going to raise my voice on the BJP manifesto. It is a Party manifesto. But you have not got a clear majority for the smooth functioning of the Government. You have drawn up your national agenda for governance. Is the point about temple construction included in that national agenda? How can you expect us to extend our cooperation to you on these issues?

I would like to tell the hon. Prime Minister that today the House is divided. There is no question of any hesitation to say this because of some of the events which have taken place during the last two months. Today if you want to take us into confidence, you spell out how the damage would be controlled and what are your strategies. By merely showing your bomb, you cannot expect the neighbouring countries to come to negotiating table.

Mr. Prime Minister, by showing your bomb, whether it is a big bomb or a small bomb, you cannot solve the boundary problem, the problem of Kashmir, the problem of the North-Eastern States.

When we conducted the election in Jammu and Kashmir, there was no death. Of course, there was only one bomb blast in the Valley, that too in a thickly-populated area. The blast took place before eight of the clock. It was only just to see that sufficient voters did not come to the booths. As I said a little while ago, there was a bomb blast in only one thickly-populated area in the Valley. Nothing happened. 53 to 55 per cent polling took place.

Our hon. Home Minister said yesterday that in order to deal with the insurgency and militancy problem, we must be either reactive or pro-active. I do not know whether the policy of "proactive" is going to improve the situation in Kashmir or solve the problem with the bomb in your hand.

Mr. Prime Minister, you have got that capacity. You have shown your capability to the whole world. With this, if you can solve it, we will welcome it.

Lastly, I would only request the hon. Prime Minister one thing. It is for you to take the House into confidence; it is for you to take the people into confidence. If you want to take this issue on party lines, things are going to be further worsened. That is all what I would like to say.

I thank you very much for having given me a chance to speak.

(ends)

1827 hours

SHRI K. YERRANNAIDU (SRIKAKULAM): Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the outset I would like to say that I do not want to take much time of this House. Today, we are debating a matter of great significance - the underground nuclear testing.

First of all, on behalf of myself and on behalf of my Party, I want to convey our warm congratulations to our great scientists, engineers and technocrats for their achievement. In doing this, they have done us proud. I am thankful to the hon. Prime Minister also for putting the issue in a proper perspective. He said it categorically that the underground nuclear testing is an on-going policy. The credit goes to our scientists, engineers and technocrats.

There are two issues which are before us. Yesterday, Pakistan also tested its devices. In Pokhran, we tested the underground nuclear tests on 11th and 13th May. Yesterday, the Prime Minister of Pakistan had taken into confidence all the political parties in that country. At this juncture, my party strongly feels that we cannot afford a division in the country on this issue. Some lapses are there. Whatever it may be, we feel proud of the achievement. The entire credit goes to the scientists and others. It is not a one-day job. The former Prime Ministers also had planned to do it. But, to some extent, they had not taken any decision basing our foreign policy, basing on the national consensus and everything.

Previously also, in this House, we elaborately discussed the policy regarding the CTBT. The House was taken into full confidence. Like that, this time also, we want to know one thing. After this, what is the contingency plan that the Government has planned? People want to know about it. Some people are feeling that after the nuclear weaponisation, what would happen tomorrow. Everybody in the world knows about the effect of the atomic bombs hurled on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That is why people want to know about the contingency plan on the economic side and in respect of our relationship with our neighbouring countries. My Party feels that we must maintain good neighbourly relations. Yesterday, our State Party unit also passed a resolution to maintain good relations with the neighbouring countries.

There is a common resolution. My humble appeal to the hon. Prime Minister is that he should take the opposition parties into confidence. We are unanimous on this issue. At this juncture, Pakistan has also gone in for an underground nuclear test. There is no difference of opinion at this stage in the House. We have got stalwarts and veteran politicians. My Party's policy is that you take a common view on the India's security perception. We must congratulate our scientists and others for this. The Government that takes a decision about such matters, normally gets the credit for it. The hon. Prime Minister has put the issue in a proper perspective. He warned his Ministers, some individuals and organisations for taking the credit for this. He said that credit for this goes to all the scientists and engineers. We must give full support to him for this underground nuclear test. If there is any difference, we must sort it out unanimously. Thank you for giving me this opportunity.

(ends)

MR. SPEAKER: The time allotted for this subject was six hours and so far the time taken by the hon. Members is 11 hours and 18 minutes. I think, all the Members have spoken.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI PRAKASH YASHWANT AMBEDKAR (AKOLA): It was mentioned that smaller parties would be given the chance at the end...(Interruptions)