Russia sending envoy Lukin to Ukraine is encouraging signal - EU delegation to Moscow
21 February 2014, 17:22
Ukraine is gripped with the new outbreak of violence not since the country's 1991 independence. As the country is sliding into chaos the Ukrainian crisis is posing a new challenge to both the East and the West. While disagreeing on the ways to handle the crisis Moscow, Brussels and Washington want to prevent Ukraine from turning into hot bed of tension in the heart of Europe. Sven-Olov Carlsson, Deputy Head of the European Union Delegation in Moscow, discussed in an interview with the VoR what role can the EU and Russia play in resolving the Ukranian crisis.
What is exactly going on in Ukraine in your opinion? Is it a revolution, a civil war, an attempted coup or something else?
It is a very complicated situation, a dramatic one and I fully agree this is something which can only be described as something provoking deep dismay and concern. And obviously we all condemn the use of violence that we have been witnessing and I think there are no circumstances which can justify what has happened. I agree that this game of trading accusations, mutual recommendations and so on are not very productive. I think with the events over the last week, they have actually overtaken this. What we now need to do is to try to find a way to help the Ukrainians to channel these tensions to a political track again, to get the struggle off the streets and to channel it into still weak but nevertheless existing and important institutions that Ukraine has. I think that it is our common challenge and both the EU, the international community in general and obviously Russia as well have a shared interest to deescalate this situation.
Hugely controversial issue is the question of sanctions which were imposed this Thursday by EU foreign ministers in Ukraine. Don't you find that actually by imposing those sanctions Brussels is taking sides in the conflict? EU imposed sanctions on Ukrainian authorities but Russia is saying 'well, you are not imposing any sanctions on those who are behind all those riots, opposition'.
Let's not forget that we haven't seen for a decade or even more such scenes as we have been seeing over the last couple of days. And there is nothing that can justify this kind of repression. We need to send a signal to those in charge that this is unacceptable and that sooner or later the ones who are behind this will have to face justice. And the earlier we can send that signal the better because the first priority now is to stop the bloodshed. During last week's meeting of the foreign ministers where these certainly not easy issue of sanctions was discussed, it was also clearly underlined that we need an independent investigation into the human rights violation that we have seen and notably this could and should be done through the International Advisory Panel of the Council of Europe. Let me also underline that as far as the exact scale of implementation of these measures will be taken forward in the light of developments in Ukraine, that it is absolutely necessary – we cannot be sitting still and not sending out a signal or warning to those responsible for this that there will be consequences if you don't change track.
You mentioned sanctions that have been imposed against those behind violence in Ukraine. But Russia has accused the West of influencing the situation in Ukraine. What else apart from the sanctions is the West or the EU actually doing in a bid to stop this violence?
I think time is over for these mutual recommendations. The reality has taken a number of dramatic steps further. What we have been doing and that has been reconfirmed – our readiness to try to mediate, to facilitate a dialogue between the Ukrainians. Ukraine has to find a solution for itself. That obviously in the light of the standoff, the violence, the casualties the very fragile process or the very limited chances there are for resuming dialogue will require even more of a concerted effort. The EU has declared and has demonstrated also by being present in Kiev for talks with the government, with the president and with the opposition that we are ready to take our share of this responsibility, we are looking forward to working together, we are now partners with Russia. As much as we see the necessity on our side to help supporting the dialogue, we are also very pleased at, and it is a very encouraging signal, that on the Russian side the decision has been taken to send to Ukraine ombudsman Mr Lukin, who is widely respected far beyond Russia's border. This is the way we have to work and the spirit of both articles which Minister Lavrov referred to sometime ago and the more recent article of High Representative Ashton. We have a shared responsibility, let's put mutual recommendations aside, let's try to help together the Ukrainians get their own process on track again.
You mentioned Mr Lukin, the mediator Russia has sent to Kiev. Do you think that there is a possibility that perhaps the Russian side and the EU side can work together somehow to actually provide some help to Kiev, to find some kind of resolution?
I think there shouldn't be such possibilities how it is going to be organized. This is primarily for the Ukrainians to decide. But I can only express the hope and I think there should be good prospects for that, there should be no room for any other wishes in this very dramatic situation. So I sincerely believe so.
The other question is what actually comes next? Of course let's keep fingers crossed, all sides are trying to speed the way out of the political crisis. But as you understand the Ukrainian economy is in a bad shape. This crisis also showed that political institutions by no means can be called matured democracy, even for the terms of transition society. Ukraine can't meet the standards of democracy yet. And in addition to that we are seeing that the government and all those structures which are related to municipal government, not only central government, are not functioning. So it seems that Ukraine needs the plan of reforms. To what extent the EU is ready not only to make political statements but to invest heavily in the future of Ukraine?
We are certainly ready to do so but it is a matter of resources. It is not that huge amount of money will resolve by itself the problems that you just described and unfortunately I think you are absolutely right when in your quick description of institutional realities in the country. That is why when we hope to get over this acute phase, if we can get the process on track. And as it has been said by ministers and repeated at the highest level from the EU, we believe that a lasting solution to the political crisis must include a constitutional reform, a new inclusive government and creation of the conditions for democratic elections. And of course this goes together with the fundamental issue of institutions and strong expressions of dissatisfaction and frustration, desperation by large part of the Ukrainian society. I don't think there are quick fixes, if that is what you are asking for.
No, no one believes there are.
And I think nobody has any illusions there. I'm sure this will be discussed internally within the EU, we will discuss it with our partners, with other western partners, with Russia. And we will have to try to find a way to support the institutions in the country. And I think it is not about money actually, once there is a basic confidence, credibility in the institutions, once we have a framework which allows for both domestic and foreign economic operators to enter Ukraine with a necessary confidence then you can launch a process which will be mutually supportive between institutional aspects and economic aspects or reform.
Very briefly, you mentioned Russia. To what extent do you think Russia and the EU can cooperate in looking for the way to find the solution for the Ukrainian crisis? This week president Putin called Angela Merkel, they were discussing Ukrainian situation.
Yes, and the more we can discuss this at different levels – the better. And as I said I think also we all welcome not only that telephone call but also the decision to deploy Mr. Lukin on the ground to support the general efforts to facilitate mediation and I think that is the way forward.
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