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18 April 2003

Powell Urges Syria to Reconsider Its Policies

(Says Middle East would be better off without WMD) (4850)
The United States has no plan to invade Syria, despite clear
indications that Syria is developing weapons of mass destruction,
Secretary of State Colin Powell said in a television interview April
17.
"As I have said previously, and the President has certainly indicated
in his own remarks, there is no war plan on anyone's desk right now to
go marching on Syria," Powell said.
Powell said the reason why Syria is being highlighted now is that
there is a "changed situation" and "a new dynamic" in the Middle East
following the liberation of Iraq.
"We wanted to point out strongly to the Syrians that this is a time
for you to take another look at your policies," Powell said. He said
he hopes to visit Syria in the near future for talks with Syrian
President Bashar Assad and Foreign Minister Farouk Shara.
The United States would like Syria to seal its border with Iraq to
prevent fedayeen fighters and war material from moving into Iraq and
to deny safe haven to members of toppled Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's
regime, Powell said. He said if members of the Hussein regime turn up
in Syria, Syrian authorities should send them back to Iraq to be tried
for war crimes.
Powell said he was "reasonably sure" that weapons of mass destruction
would be found in Iraq, but even if they were not, the invasion of
Iraq would still be justified.
"The justification we used was a comprehensive set of charges
beginning with violation of UN resolutions over the years, many of
them, possession of weapons of mass destruction. It was a terrorist
state, and in its terrorist action was in violation of the UN
resolution," Powell said.
He added that Iraqis who now have the freedom to welcome coalition
forces or demonstrate against them would probably agree that the
liberation was justified.
Powell said the United States ultimately hopes to see weapons of mass
destruction eliminated from throughout the Middle East. After peace is
established between Israel and the Palestinians, Powell said he hopes
the motivation to possess weapons of mass destruction would disappear.
Asked whether the United States applies one standard to Israelis and
another to Palestinians and other Arabs, Powell said "Our standard is
one; we want all the people of the region to live in peace with one
another -- Israelis and Arabs, Palestinians and Israelis -- and that
is what the President has committed to in his June 24th speech which
laid down a clear vision, two states living side by side in peace."
"The President has as much concern about the welfare of every Arab,
and especially every Palestinian, as he does about the welfare of
every Israeli," Powell added.
While Powell said he is sure North Korea did not ignore what was
happening in Iraq -- "and lessons drawn from the war" -- he pointed
out that the concept of multilateral talks with Pyongyang was put in
motion before the war began. He said he hopes the talks among North
Korea, China, and the United States, which he described as an
"exchange of views ... at a fairly moderate level," would get started
very soon.
In conclusion, Powell reviewed U.S. actions during the past 12 years
to help Muslims in Kuwait, Kosovo, and Afghanistan.
"We helped them to a better life and put them on the road to a better
future, and we are not staying around. We want to finish the job and
come home," Powell said. "Our record is good and our record is solid,
and I can take that case anywhere in the world."
Following is a transcript of the interview:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
Washington, D.C.
April 17, 2003 
INTERVIEW - SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN L. POWELL ON THE NEWSHOUR WITH
JIM LEHRER
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Secretary, welcome.
SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Jim.
MR. LEHRER: Are you going to Damascus to talk to President Assad of
Syria?
SECRETARY POWELL: I have made no plans yet, but I expect that as I
travel a little bit later on in the spring there will be an
opportunity, I hope, to visit Damascus and have conversations with
President Assad, yes.
MR. LEHRER: But there's no specific plan to go in the immediate
future?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, no.
MR. LEHRER: But what happened? There were stories out the last 24
hours that, my goodness, you were going to go. What happened?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I was asked about it and I said that I would
expect in the future, in the near future, to have an opportunity to
speak to my Syrian colleague and to President Assad, and suddenly that
became I'm leaving tomorrow morning. But that was not what was said
and it's not the case.
MR. LEHRER: So you don't see it as an urgent matter to talk to him?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, I've been to Syria twice and I am in regular
contact with the Syrian Foreign Minister, and so I think that as we
move into the spring, and now that Iraq is -- the military part of it
is over and as we get ready to release the roadmap that will get us
jumpstarted in the Middle East peace process, there will be an
opportunity for me to travel to the region in the not too distant
future. And I would expect, as part of those travels, I would ask to
see President Assad, and I look forward to it.
MR. LEHRER: The recent remarks from the President, from you and
Secretary Rumsfeld, were they, in fact, designed to create this storm
that has come up the last few days?
SECRETARY POWELL: They were designed to point out some rather
straightforward truths and facts: one, that Syria has sponsored
terrorism over the years; it is considered one of the states that do
sponsor terrorism; it's on our list of such states. And that's always
been a concern to us, especially the support they provide to
Hezbollah. We have also stated clearly over the years that we believe
Syria is developing weapons of mass destruction and we are concerned
about, especially, their chemical weapons program.
I think what highlighted it at this point in time, however, is the
changed situation in the region. We have been successful in Iraq.
There is a new dynamic in that part of the world. And we wanted to
point out strongly to the Syrians that this is a time for you to take
another look at your policies.
And then the additional element that perhaps gave it such visibility
is we had evidence that there was still material going across the
Syrian-Iraqi border into Iraq, and we were concerned that fedayeen
were coming from Damascus to participate in the conflict against
coalition soldiers, and we did catch people heading back into Iraq
carrying -- back into Syria from Iraq, carrying large sums of money
who had gone to engage in this conflict.
And we also have some concerns that senior leaders of the former Iraqi
regime, Saddam Hussein's family members and close associates and
others, might be trying to find a safe haven in Syria.
So all of that sort of came together and suggested that we should make
it rather clear to the Syrian Government that this would not be
satisfactory behavior in light of these changed circumstances, and we
hope they'll respond.
MR. LEHRER: Well, as you know, this has been read in the Arab world,
and also in some places in Europe and elsewhere, the United States as
saying, "Hey, Syria, look next door at what happened to Iraq. If you
don't get your act together, the same thing could happen to you."
Is that a correct message? Is that the message the U.S. wanted to
send?
SECRETARY POWELL: It's not a message the United States has delivered.
The President hasn't spoken in those terms. Neither have I, and, for
that matter, neither has Don Rumsfeld or Condi Rice.
But, clearly, what's really happened in Iraq is that a regime that did
sponsor terrorism, that did terrorize its own people, that was
developing weapons of mass destruction, was in violation of standards
that had been imposed by the United Nations is no longer there. So
there is a changed situation and Syria is about to have a neighbor
that is going to be democratic, it's going to have a representative
form of government, it's going to use the wealth of its people -- the
intellectual wealth of its people, the human capital of that country
and the oil of that country -- to benefit the people. And so,
hopefully, this is a new dynamic that Syria will take note of.
MR. LEHRER: But, as you go through your list just now, the checklist
that led to military action against Iraq, Syria almost meets the same
checks, does it not?
SECRETARY POWELL: Not entirely, because there were 12 years' worth of
UN resolutions that had been imposed upon Iraq, so I think it's
different. Iraq had recently invaded its neighbors, had used weapons
of mass destruction against its own people and its neighbors, and as
recently just as a few months ago, in total violation of UN Resolution
1441, once again told the international community that we're not
paying any attention to you. And therefore, serious consequences
flowed and those serious consequences got rid of the regime of Saddam
Hussein.
But as I have said previously, and the President has certainly
indicated in his own remarks, there is no war plan on anyone's desk
right now to go marching on Syria.
MR. LEHRER: But it may not be on the desk, but it's not off the table,
is it?
SECRETARY POWELL: The President has a full range of options and a
toolbox full of tools to deal with various foreign policy challenges
and issues, and you just don't reach for one tool every time. You look
at each situation -- whether it's North Korea, Syria, Iran, and Iraq
-- and you use the tools that are appropriate.
Right now, we think we have clearly pointed out to the Syrians aspects
of their policies and behaviors that we think they should reconsider
in light of changing circumstances in the region.
MR. LEHRER: White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, on Monday,
referred to Syria as being a "rogue nation." Is that how you see
Syria, too?
SECRETARY POWELL: We have always described Syria as a nation that has
been a state sponsor of terrorism and that is developing weapons of
mass destruction. It has a form of government that we believe is not,
perhaps, best for the people of Syria.
I haven't used the term "rogue nation" but it certainly has those
sorts of aspects. And it is no secret that we have felt this way
towards Syria, but it is also no secret that we have an Ambassador in
Syria, we have diplomatic relations with Syria. I meet regularly with
the Syrian Foreign Minister and I have visited President Bashar
al-Assad twice since I've been Secretary of State.
So there are ways to deal with a country such as Syria and the
leadership of Syria that don't involved reaching into a toolbox and
pulling out an invasion plan.
MR. LEHRER: What do you say to those in the Arab world who say, "Wait
a minute. Here Israel has weapons of mass destruction. U.S. policy
clearly is that the United States trusts Israel with weapons of mass
destruction, but does not trust any Arab nation with the same."
Is that a correct reading of U.S. policy?
SECRETARY POWELL: We believe that weapons of mass destruction -- let
me put it this way. We believe that there should be no weapons of mass
destruction in that part of the world, and that has been a U.S. policy
and goal for many, many years and remains so.
MR. LEHRER: But Israel, does, in fact, have them.
SECRETARY POWELL: We believe that that part of the world would be
better off if there were no weapons of mass destruction, and we hope
that through our efforts to move the peace process further along, and
the President is ready to fully engage in moving the peace process
along once the Palestinians have confirmed their new Prime Minister.
And if we get to that place that we all want to get to, where there
will be a comprehensive peace between Israel and Palestinians, a
comprehensive peace that includes Lebanon and Syria, then maybe the
motivation for having such weapons will be gone.
MR. LEHRER: Do you have any sympathy at all for those in the Arab
world who say the United States has a double standard?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think the United States has demonstrated, and will
demonstrate even more forcefully in the months ahead, that our
standard is one; we want all the people of the region to live in peace
with one another -- Israelis and Arabs, Palestinians and Israelis --
and that is what the President has committed to in his June 24th
speech which laid down a clear vision, two states living side by side
in peace. And if we can achieve that vision over the next several
years, as the President hopes to, then a lot of this concern about
what America believes and what America supports and who America
supports, does not support, will be dealt with.
The President has as much concern about the welfare of every Arab, and
especially every Palestinian, as he does about the welfare of every
Israeli. They are all human beings. And we are trying to find a way to
help them arrange a political settlement between them so that we can
create a Palestinian state that can live side by side in peace with
Israel. And when that situation has been created and you add to it a
change in Iraq, which we now have caused to come about, and if the
other nations in the region would realize that supporting terrorism
and starting on weapons of mass destruction will not improve the
situation, then, hopefully, we can arrive at the vision that the
President laid out and the Arabs themselves laid out in the Arab
League statement last year which followed upon Crown Prince Abdullah
of Saudi Arabia's vision.
MR. LEHRER: So we might get to a point where the United States would
turn to Israel and say, "Get rid of your weapons of mass destruction"?
That could happen?
SECRETARY POWELL: We would, hopefully, get to a point where we're
executing on the roadmap that we will be releasing pretty soon. And
that roadmap deals with a comprehensive settlement between Israel and
the Palestinians, which we hope will then lead to a comprehensive
settlement of issues outstanding with Lebanon and Syria. The roadmap
does not deal with weaponry and the peace plan does not deal with
weaponry.
MR. LEHRER: Syria said officially that they do not have weapons of
mass destruction. They completely flat deny the U.S. charge that they
are making or possess or are testing chemical weapons. Do we have
proof otherwise?
SECRETARY POWELL: The intelligence that's available to me from the
very sophisticated intelligence agencies that we have -- make it clear
to me and to us that they do have programs of that nature.
MR. LEHRER: They also deny that they are harboring Iraqi leaders. Do
we have proof otherwise?
SECRETARY POWELL: We have provided them some information concerning
specific named individuals that I would hope they will look into.
MR. LEHRER: Well, as you know, Mr. Secretary --
SECRETARY POWELL: And I also want to make sure, if I may --
MR. LEHRER: Sure.
SECRETARY POWELL: We also want to make sure that they seal their
border. They say they have closed their borders to this kind of
movement and we hope that they keep that border sealed; and if any of
these individuals who are associates, affiliates of the former Hussein
regime turn up, the Syrians will do the correct thing, the right
thing, in our judgment, and return them back to Iraq so they can stand
before justice administered by the Iraqi people.
MR. LEHRER: A non-diplomat would look at this and say, wait a minute,
somebody's not telling the same -- somebody's not telling the truth,
just to be straight here. I mean, is it that kind of confrontation? Is
it a confrontation over facts or is it a confrontation over
interpretation, or what are we talking about here?
SECRETARY POWELL: We're talking about just what you said, Jim: a
disagreement. And I have discussed this, these areas of disagreement
-- terrorism, weapons of mass destruction -- with my foreign minister
counterpart, Foreign Minister Shara and with President Bashar Assad
previously, and we'll continue to do so. And they will have to make
judgments as to how much value they think these kinds of activities
and programs have for them in a geographic part of the world that is
rapidly changing, with the end of the Hussein regime and, hopefully,
progress on the Middle East peace plan.
MR. LEHRER: Speaking of getting messages, is it your belief that what
happened in Iraq led North Korea to change its view on how they were
willing to negotiate with the United States?
SECRETARY POWELL: I'm sure they didn't ignore what was happening in
Iraq over the last several weeks and the buildup to that, but the
concept that is before us now of a trilateral, a multilateral meeting,
was put in motion before the war. We have been in contact with our
friends in the region -- Japan, South Korea, China and Russia -- about
the need for there to be comprehensive discussions with the North
Koreans, not just U.S.-North Korea discussions, because all the
countries in the region are affected.
So, for the last several months, we have been in touch with our
friends, and especially with the Chinese, to see if they could
persuade the North Koreans that this was in their interest. So it had
been going on for some time before the war. I'm sure the war also was
noticed and lessons drawn from the war. And I hope that we will get
these conversations started very soon.
MR. LEHRER: Next week, right?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we hope so.
MR. LEHRER: Questions about -- I mean, there are discussions about
discussions?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, what we want to do is begin these discussions
with the three countries -- North Korea, China and the United States
-- full participants in the discussions. We're coming with no
conditions or preconditions. Let's sit and start to exchange views.
And let's do it at a fairly moderate level. Let's not raise it to the
highest level yet, just to start the discussion and see where these
discussions take us.
MR. LEHRER: Should this be interpreted, Mr. Secretary, as a
breakthrough of some kind; that this means it is possible, more so
than it was before this period was at least, to resolve this through
negotiations without having to rattle any more sabers, without even
having to even talk about possible military action?
SECRETARY POWELL: You know, the President has said from the very
beginning, from last October, when the story broke, that he was
interested in a diplomatic solution. He was interested in discussion.
A lot of people tried to push the President to immediately do
something with the North Koreans or to start rattling sabers. The
President never did.
The President said repeatedly, despite all of the criticism that was
directed at the administration, that we will handle this
diplomatically, and we will handle it in a multilateral order, in a
multilateral way. It's not a word that is usually attributed to the
policies of our administration, but in this instance it was accurate.
That is what we wanted to do, involve others in the region in the
solution to what was a regional problem with North Korea. And I hope
that North Korea continues to view this as an opportunity for them to
present their case.
We have items we want to present to them, and we want to hear from the
North Koreans. The Chinese want to hear from the North Koreans. The
Chinese have a point of view. The Chinese position is that the
peninsula should be denuclearized. And so I think this is an
opportunity to lower tensions, and for parties in the region to begin
a dialogue that will continue to lower tensions. And I hope the North
Koreans approach this meeting in that sphere.
MR. LEHRER: On Iraq, Mr. Secretary, before the UN Security Council,
you made a much covered, dramatic presentation to the Security Council
about weapons of mass destruction that were in Iraq, and you were very
specific. You talked about mobile labs and you talked about tons of
nerve gas and missiles with chemical warheads. Have any of those
things been found?
SECRETARY POWELL: Not yet. But if they were to be easily found, the
inspectors would have found them. But we are quite confident of our
intelligence. And I spent four days and nights of my life in the days
before my presentation in February with the intelligence community, at
the highest levels, going over everything that I was to present to
make sure that the entire community agreed on that information, and
they did.
And so we think its pretty solid information. And we are quite
confident that, as the coalition forces complete their combat
operations, turn to stability and security, make sure we've got the
humanitarian aid flowing, and we are trying to restore life back to
normal, as much as we can, then they will turn their attention to
talking to people who have knowledge about these kinds of programs and
searching out sites. There are thousands of sites that will have to be
looked at and there are hundreds and hundreds of people who have
knowledge who will have to be interviewed.
MR. LEHRER: What if they don't find them?
SECRETARY POWELL: They will find them, and that I'm reasonably sure
of.
MR. LEHRER: So, in other words, you are not worried that one of the
major premises for going to war against Iraq might not prove valid?
SECRETARY POWELL: I am not worried about that, no. There was a huge
intelligence collection effort with all of our agencies working
together to come up with the body of knowledge that we took to the UN
and that we had been presenting before the world for a long period of
time.
MR. LEHRER: Another premise, of course, and you made the point that
there -- you suggested that there was a connection between the Saddam
Hussein regime and al-Qaida. Has any evidence, further evidence, of
that turned up since the war?
SECRETARY POWELL: There is some additional information concerning who
might have been living in Baghdad who had a connection to terrorist
organizations, and, among those terrorist organizations, al-Qaida. And
so we are pursuing all of those leads. And then you look suddenly, we
captured Abu Abbas, a terrorist. Now, not al-Qaida.
MR. LEHRER: Not al-Qaida, right.
SECRETARY POWELL: But somebody who has been in hiding in Baghdad for
all of these years. And he killed an American, Mr. Klinghoffer, by
throwing him off the Achille Lauro. And now we have got him, and he
will be brought to justice. So there is no question that Iraq has been
a nation that has not only terrorized its own people under the
leadership of Saddam Hussein, but has been a haven for other
terrorists.
MR. LEHRER: Well, I guess what I am actually getting at is this, Mr.
Secretary. When it's all said and done, if the only really verifiable
premise turns out to be -- and there is no debate about this -- that
Saddam Hussein is an evil man, he was a dictator and he oppressed his
people, would that be enough justification by itself for what happened
in Iraq over the last three or four weeks?
SECRETARY POWELL: I suspect that many of the people that we are seeing
in television now, who are welcoming the coalition forces, and who are
even now demonstrating against coalition forces in some instances --
democracy is a wonderful thing, you can start to start to speak out
again -- I think they would say it was sufficient justification.
The justification we used was a comprehensive set of charges beginning
with violation of UN resolutions over the years, many of them,
possession of weapons of mass destruction. It was a terrorist state,
and in its terrorist action was in violation of the UN resolution. So
I think the case that we made to the world was that they were in
violation of many obligations they had under UN resolutions.
And the most important of those obligations, and the one that formed
the basis for Security Council Resolution 1441, was possession of
weapons of mass destruction. They never accounted for them. They never
told us what happened to the anthrax, and the other horrible chemicals
and biological agents that they were developing. They never accounted
for the missiles that we knew they had, and they knew they had. So
they did not 'fess up [confess]. They did not comply. They did not do
what they were supposed to do. And that's why they suffered the
serious consequences that followed.
And I think when this is all said and done, when the searching is all
over and the evidence comes forward, this will raise -- this conflict
will rest on a solid foundation of fact, with respect to the reason
that we went into conflict.
MR. LEHRER: Finally, as the principal representative of the United
States of America, we have talked about a few of them, but there are
all kinds of other things all over the world where you are going to
represent our country. Are you completely comfortable with what the
United States did in Iraq, and the message that goes out from that to
the rest of the world, and delivering the message, and explaining to
the world -- I mean, explaining the message and defending the message?
SECRETARY POWELL: Absolutely. We removed a dictatorial regime that was
developing these horrible weapons and oppressing its people, and we
have freed a Muslim people. We freed Muslim people in Kuwait 12 years
ago. We saved a Muslim people in Kosovo a few years ago. In
Afghanistan, we got rid of a terrible regime that was oppressing
Muslim people, the Taliban. We removed a terrorist organization,
al-Qaida. There are remnants of it there and we are fighting those
remnants of al-Qaida in Afghanistan. We've put in place a government
that is representative of the Afghan people.
So the argument I will take to the whole world, especially the Muslim,
world, when you look at what the United States has done over the last
10 or 12 years, stand back a little and take a look. What we have done
is come to the assistance, to the rescue, of Muslims who were
desperately in need, who were being terrorized and were being
oppressed; and, in every instance, we removed that oppression, we
helped them to a better life and put them on the road to a better
future, and we are not staying around. We want to finish the job and
come home. It's a powerful message. It's a message that is consistent
with American values and it is what we have done so many times over
the last 50 or 60 years. The charges you hear about the United States
being a nation that is only going to use a preemptive strategy and
we're going in everywhere, I sometimes josh with my European
colleagues; you ought to look at your own history over the last 100
years or so before you suggest that this is our strategy.
Our strategy is to live by our values, hope that the values we live by
give inspiration to other peoples around the world. Our values include
principles that we believe in strongly. And when it's necessary to go
to war because we can find no peaceful solution, which is always our
first preference, we can find no diplomatic solution -- part of our
first preference -- when it's necessary to go to war, we do it, we do
it well, we do it in a way that minimizes loss of civilian life or
destruction of private property or public property, and then we put
the people of that country on to that path to a better future. And
then we come home. There is no 51st state in waiting out there. There
is no American colony about to be created. Our record is good and our
record is solid, and I can take that case anywhere in the world.
MR. LEHRER: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much.
SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)