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16 January 2002

Transcript: Pakistan and India Need To Start Direct Dialogue

(Powell speaks to press while en route to Islamabad) (3560)
Secretary of State Colin Powell said the Kashmir issue would only be
solved by a direct dialogue between India and Pakistan, and the United
States was willing to play a role to help get the dialogue started.
"We would like to be helpful. But I think ultimately it has to be the
two sides talking to each other to solve the issue of Kashmir, and not
with the United States playing the kind of role that is suggested by
the term 'mediator,'" said Powell.
Speaking to the press January 15 en route to Islamabad, Powell
compared the recent movement of military forces in the region to the
forward momentum of a large car. "Before you can throw it into
reverse, it's wise -- and probably the only thing you can do -- to get
it stopped," said Powell.
"Reverse is not just the movement of forces away. It involves trying
to remove some of the diplomatic and political obstacles that were set
up with respect to movement of people back and forth, overflights,
things of that nature. I'm more interested in not so much watching
armies move back ... It's more important to make sure that the
political and diplomatic situation is stabilized," said Powell.
Powell also continued to praise Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf's
January 12 speech in which Musharraf declared that any form of
terrorism or religious extremism was unacceptable.
"The message he was giving to the Pakistani people about how this kind
of behavior, extremism, terrorism, support for terrorism, is no longer
acceptable, and now jihad has to be practiced in the context of
helping people, education, health care, taking care of people, not
killing people. This is an important message that he gave to his
Islamic country, and I hope it resonates throughout the Islamic
world," said Powell.
"In the long term, it is this kind of message, -- as it takes hold
through the madrasas, through the elimination of extremist
organizations, through shutting down these offices, at the end of the
day -- this will not only help Pakistan, it will help India, in the
long run. And it's a message I think he's also giving to the Islamic
world," said Powell.
Turning to Afghanistan, Powell said work is in progress to gather
funds for the Afghan interim authority.
"First is the roughly $193 million dollars worth of gold reserves that
they should be able to get released soon and accessible by the
Afghanistan central bank," Powell said.
Powell is visiting Islamabad, New Delhi, Kabul and Kathmandu as part
of his trip to South Asia. On January 21 he will represent the United
States in Tokyo at a conference where the international community is
expected to pledge funds for the reconstruction of Afghanistan.
Following is a transcript of Secretary Powell's press briefing en
route to Islamabad:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
For Immediate Release
January 15, 2002
Secretary of State Colin Powell
Press Briefing on Board Plane En Route Islamabad
January 15, 2002
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, it's a pleasure to have you all aboard for
another one of our magical mystery tours. In case you noticed, there's
a time block that hasn't been accounted for. We'll be going to Nepal,
so we'll spend the evening in Kathmandu. It will give me a chance to
consult with the King and the other leaders there in light of the
events of recent months: the tragic murder of the former King and the
Maoists' terrorist insurrection that's causing them some difficulty.
That's what we'll be doing on our way to Japan the next day. I'm ready
for your questions.
QUESTION: Before we get on to the big issues, on Nepal, first
Secretary of State ever to visit there?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think somebody told me that I'll be the first one
in at least 30 years. I don't know if it's ever. Ever?
QUESTION:  According to the Historian's Office.
SECRETARY POWELL:  Oh, you've already looked it up?  Okay.
QUESTION: You're going to express your support for them in the
insurgency? How?
SECRETARY POWELL: What we have here is a government that is trying to
survive a period of turmoil caused by the events of a few months ago,
and you have a Maoist insurgency that is trying to overthrow that
government. This really is the kind of thing that we're fighting
against throughout the world. I will try to convey our support. I
don't have any particular programs that I'm going to announce or drop
off, but I wanted to get an assessment of the situation and have a
chance to let tem know we do support them, and the timing worked out
fortuitously. It's a big event for them.
QUESTION: India and Pakistan. What all would you like the Pakistani
government to do? And are you explicitly going to call for the Indians
to start pulling their troops back yet?
SECRETARY POWELL: When you have a situation such as we've had for the
last month or so, we have two forces moving toward one another. It's a
little bit like the ocean liner car that's in forward gear. Before you
can throw it into reverse, it's wise -- and probably the only thing
you can do -- to get it stopped. I think the events of the last
several days, especially President Musharraf's speech over the
weekend, and the international response to that speech, the internal
Pakistani response to that speech from his people, and the Indian
response to the speech certainly shows that this rush toward conflict
has been slowed quite a bit.
I want to talk to President Musharraf and I want to talk to Foreign
Minister Singh and others to see what we have to do now to bring this
to a complete halt and then start going in reverse. Reverse is not
just the movement of forces away. It involves trying to remove some of
the diplomatic and political obstacles that were set up with respect
to movement of people back and forth, overflights, things of that
nature. I'm more interested in not so much watching armies move back;
armies can move back and in the other direction again. It's more
important to make sure that the political and diplomatic situation is
stabilized. If that is stabilized, then the armies can move back in
due course. If we can continue to see progress politically and
diplomatically, the actual movement of the forces back will follow in
due course. As you've noted and reported, the Indian mobilization took
them to a certain point but did not commit them beyond that point to
forward attack position, so clearly no political decision has been
taken to use this mobilized force. I'm anxious to make sure that we
continue to have political and diplomatic progress and a new course,
if that is successful, that will lead to de-escalation of political
and diplomatic steps that have been taken and hopefully de-escalation
of the military steps that have been taken.
With respect to the specific question of what more, what the Indians
have said clearly is that they appreciated what Mr. Musharraf said.
What was particularly noteworthy, and the Indians took note of this,
is the message he was giving to the Pakistani people about how this
kind of behavior, extremism, terrorism, support for terrorism, is no
longer acceptable, and now jihad has to be practiced in the context of
helping people, education, health care, taking care of people, not
killing people. This is an important message that he gave to his
Islamic country, and I hope it resonates throughout the Islamic world.
So now, the Indians are looking for action. We have seen some action.
Mr. Musharraf banned additional terrorist organizations, extremist
organizations. He has arrested a rather large number of people. The
numbers -- I don't want to be an authority on the numbers, but you've
seen reports that over fourteen hundred may have been arrested,
detained, taken into custody in one way or another. I think that's
significant. He has made clear that his injunction against terrorist
activity applies not only in Pakistan, but all territory controlled by
Pakistan. I think the Indians are still anxious to see some action on
the list of twenty, and Mr. Musharraf has left open the possibility of
action against those who are not Pakistani, in the sense that
Pakistanis will have to be dealt with under Pakistani law. On
non-Pakistanis, he certainly can take appropriate action. The fact is,
most of these people are not easily findable. They are in hiding or
not even in the area and haven't been seen in a long time. The Indians
would like to see action on that list and on Mr. Ibrahim, wherever he
may be.
And I think they're also looking for signs of what President Musharraf
said about action coming out of Kashmir really is reflected in what
happens along the line of control, and they see a change in the
activities that come across the line of control. And that's one area
that I'll be pursuing with both sides.
QUESTION:  (inaudible)
SECRETARY POWELL: I assume that it made sense for the borders to be
open for buses and traffic to go back and forth and for any
overflights, and in the current crisis, that was stopped. I assume, as
we de-escalate, both sides would be anxious to reopen the border for
that kind of traffic and open their fairways once again. But we will
get there in due course. We ought to get this stopped, and then we can
talk about change of direction or reverse.
Everybody's been asking me the last several days, "when will the
Indians move back?" The important thing is to get a political decision
of the kind that we have now and keep it in place, that we're going to
pursue this (inaudible) with political and diplomatic actions, and as
long as that is the case, then the presence of forces forward deployed
is not as great a problem as if we didn't have some success along a
diplomatic track. In due course, if we have success, these
de-escalatory steps will follow in, I think, a normal, natural scheme
of things.
QUESTION:  (inaudible)
SECRETARY POWELL: Barbara's question is how do I view our relationship
with both India and Pakistan. I think that we have excellent relations
with each country and the relationship stands on its own merit with
each country. The very fact that we have been able to talk to both
sides during his current crisis as equals, a standpoint of mutual
respect, common interests, we're all alike in the campaign against
terrorism. As I have said to my interlocutors in both Pakistan and
India, we want this to be a campaign against terrorism, not a campaign
of you guys against each other. The fact that we do have good
relations with both countries has helped us during this current
crisis.
I have tried very hard in my work over the last several weeks,
especially the last week, to talk to both sides on a constant and
regular basis, as co-equals, and not trying to see this in hyphenated
terms, but US-India, and US-Pakistan, and how we can work together to
serve our mutual interests. It may not be totally visible, but the
amount of interaction we've had has been quite significant, I mean,
several times a day with both sides over the last four or five days.
QUESTION:  (inaudible)
SECRETARY POWELL: The question has to do with operating funds for the
interim administration in Afghanistan. We're hard at work, and I hope
that I'll be able to give them some good news.
There really are three accounts that we're looking at very carefully
now and trying to clear the way on. Not only the United States, but
the United Nations has action it must take, the American government --
both State and Treasury -- have to do certain things, and the
international community and international financial institutions are
involved. First is the roughly $193 million dollars worth of gold
reserves that they should be able to get released soon and accessible
by the Afghanistan central bank. How they will to use that, whether
they will want to preserve that to protect their currency, or to use
it for operating funds, that remains to be seen. But there are two
other accounts. There are some twenty five -- roughly -- plus or minus
a couple million dollars, and banks that we can access in these
accounts rather quickly. And then there's another similar amount --
twenty-three million, plus or minus -- in the air traffic account, the
international air traffic association. They have had these fees held
up in escrow, and we should be able to get the Afghanis access to that
rather quickly. So I would say that in the course of this week,
operating money should be available to the government.
It's really just the beginning, though. They're going to need a lot of
help. We have paid our part of the initial $20 million that was
committed by the international community. But there are a lot of bills
there; and before we get into Kabul and the other cities, and the more
we see, the greater will be the requirement. These numbers are all
going to go up over time. Phone systems, computer systems, basic
elements of a government, the simplest things are needed in order to
get this country up and running. And it has to be done in a way that
we don't overwhelm their ability to absorb the money, because then
you'll start wasting it.
So that will be part of my message as well. You've got to get
organized, get the funds flowing, and make sure the funds are going to
the most urgent needs and make sure they're putting in place good
systems of accountability. We don't want to come back two years from
now and discover lots of money went through this system, but not a lot
of good came from it.
QUESTION: In a practical way, how can you determine that Karzai and
his government can control the funds and it won't be distributed among
warlords who control the outlying areas? He controls very little
territory himself.
SECRETARY POWELL: We will do this through a variety of means. One, the
UN has a presence. Secondly, the United States Agency for
International Development is arriving in the region now to make an
assessment of needs so that we can have a good idea of where the needs
are, where the money should be going, and then that gives us a basic
method upon which to track all of the money. Third, the UN is also
making its own assessment, coming up with exactly what is needed,
rather than all of the estimates that are flying around the place. As
the money flows, we'll want to see their money go to these needs that
have been identified by the international community, through the UN
and through the Agency for International Development.
When we get to the reconstruction conference in Japan at the end of
the week, one of the things we're going to be talking about is
accountability, how to get this money to the organizations that need
it. Some of this money may flow to the Afghan government, or it may
flow directly to non-governmental organizations and other
organizations that are dealing with direct services. And that is part
of this whole structure that we are creating at this third conference.
Remember, the first conference was in Washington, the second was in
Brussels, and now this is the actual pledging conference in Tokyo.
QUESTION:  (inaudible)
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't think I said we would play a mediating role.
If you show me the quote, then I will agree with you; but I don't
think I used the word mediate. What I think I have been saying rather
steadily is that this problem in Kashmir is only going to be solved by
direct dialogue between the two sides. Both sides have indicated a
desire for dialogue. You'll notice in President Musharraf's speech, he
picked up a statement by Prime Minister Vajpayee to this effect that
the United States can help get that dialogue started on all of the
issues that are outstanding between the two countries, to include
Kashmir.
We would like to be helpful. But I think ultimately it has to be the
two sides talking to each other to solve the issue of Kashmir, and not
with the United States playing the kind of role that is suggested by
the term "mediator." So what I'd like to do is see the dialogue get
started once again, and to the extent that we can make it a worthwhile
dialogue, to the extent that the two parties want us to play some role
in that dialogue, fine. It has to be between the two of them.
QUESTION:  Like you said, it's both parties.
SECRETARY POWELL: No, I said both parties expressed an interest in
getting a dialogue started, and we'll see what role they might want
the United States to play in such a dialogue.
QUESTION: What indications do you have from India? Do you think they'd
like to see the US play some kind of....
SECRETARY POWELL: I haven't really talked to Jaswant Singh about that.
President Musharraf has indicated of course that he would like to see
the international community, and the US especially, play a role, and
he made that a specific point in his speech. Before I try to press the
button on that one, let's get a dialogue started. I think I can help
talk to both sides about getting a dialogue started. Once it's
started, you let us know what role you would like us to play, if any,
or if you think it's better for us to play none, so be it.
QUESTION: Isn't there anything the Indians can do now, irrespective of
Pakistan, to make life for the Kashmiri people more tolerable?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think that's a question that is quite proper, and
it's an issue that comes up regularly. I think there probably are
things that they can do, and I hope to engage Jaswant Singh on it the
day after tomorrow, or whenever we're in India.
QUESTION: This is on a different issue. In terms of the terrorism
alert in Yemen -- it was ratcheted up -- is there any update on that
or any other places that we haven't heard about?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yemen is the only one I know where there's been any
upgrade, and I don't have anything beyond what I think you put out
yesterday, Richard. But if we have anything later, I'll get it back to
you; but I don't have anything beyond what we said yesterday.
QUESTION:  (question refers to other ways to help with dialogue)
SECRETARY POWELL: I help with the dialogue every day. I've discovered
that to talk to people far away, you don't always have to be there.
You can use the phone.
QUESTION: I know that, but I mean, General Zinni is free right
now....(laughter)
SECRETARY POWELL: There is so much I can put on General Zinni.
(laughter) That's exactly what I have in mind. Secrets of all hearts
will be revealed in due course later. I've used this with you before.
QUESTION: (question refers to handshake between Indians and Pakistanis
and meeting in Kathmandu)
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, I saw the speech. We've gone from Kathmandu to
(inaudible) situation as fast as we can, so I think that Kathmandu did
not produce a breakthrough, nor were we of the view that it would. I
don't think that you've ever heard us look at Kathmandu as sort of the
breakthrough event. I was looking more, not as a breakthrough event,
but I was hoping for more movement with President Musharraf's speech
rather than a meeting in Kathmandu, but I think we got that. Todd?
QUESTION:  (inaudible)
SECRETARY POWELL: I think it's aimed at the West. Let me not say
aimed; it's a message for his people more than anything else, I think.
It's a message for the Indians as well. It says to the Indians,
believe me as I say this, watch me as I take action. In the long term,
it is this kind of message, -- as it takes hold through the madrasas,
through the elimination of extremist organizations, through shutting
down these offices, at the end of the day -- this will not only help
Pakistan, it will help India, in the long run. And it's a message I
think he's also giving to the Islamic world.
In my first conversation with Jaswant Singh after the speech was over
-- obviously, I started making calls -- and the first impression he
had of the speech, while saying I've got to see action, the first
impression he had, which was also the first thing they said about it
when they made their formal statement twelve hours later, was how much
of the speech was devoted to talking to the Pakistani people and
giving this message of tolerance against terrorism and against
extremism. Now, let's see the action. Quite predictably, that's what I
also expect.
QUESTION:  Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)