30 September 2004
Powell Discusses Iraq Conference, Possible French Participation
Secretary of state adds conference idea originated with Iraqis
An Iraqi government proposal to organize an international conference to help the Iraq government prepare for a democratic future may take place at the end of November, Secretary of State Colin Powell says.
Powell told Agence France Presse reporters September 29 that while he talked about the future conference at the United Nations last week, it is actually an idea of Iraqi interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi. The conference would bring together Iraq's neighbors, along with representatives of the Group of Eight, the Arab League and perhaps the Organization of the Islamic Conference, to meet to discuss next steps to aid Iraq's democratic transition, he said.
Powell said an early French government statement setting conditions for its attendance at an international conference on Iraq's future was confusing, but it had now been clarified by the French Foreign Ministry. The statement, in which France reportedly insisted the conference agenda include topics such as withdrawal of the Multinational Force (MNF) from Iraq and invitees including members of the Iraq insurgency, was not as it seemed, he said.
According to Powell, the French Foreign Ministry was referring to a meeting one year after the passage of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1546 (passed on June 8), which calls for a review of the multinational military force's mandate for Iraq in June 2005.
As for the idea of anti-government forces attending, Powell said, "you can't have terrorists going to a conference." He also said he did not think his French colleague "ever suggested that it would be a conference that would include people who are actively fighting against the [Iraqi] government."
In the wide-ranging interview, the secretary of state dealt with other issues, including:
-- Iraq's security situation: Iraqi and coalition forces are having a tough time right now, Powell said. The increase in violence, though, was expected, he said, since former regime remnants and foreign terrorists want Iraq's foray into democracy to fail. He expressed confidence that Iraq will hold elections in January 2005.
-- Syria-Iraq meeting: Powell said the Syrian and the Iraqi interim governments -- along with U.S. military officials representing the Multinational Force-Iraq -- reached agreement September 29 on issues concerning the flow of foreign terrorists over their shared border, as well as steps to enhance sharing information and intelligence. He called it a positive step forward, but said the real test will come in judging Syria's subsequent actions.
-- Iran/IAEA: Powell deferred comment on the Russian government's reported statement on Iran's noncompliance with International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) concerns, saying that the main issue is what the IAEA Board of Governors will say in November.
-- North Korea: He said the Pyongyang regime has not lost, but only delayed an opportunity to achieve its goals in the six-party talks by not agreeing to the next set of meetings.
-- Sudan: Powell said the important near-term goal is to "provide the wherewithal" for the African Union to send several thousand more troops to Darfur, so that their presence can stabilize and pacify the situation.
-- Cat Stevens' immigration problem: Powell said there is an investigation into why former singer once known as Cat Stevens -- now Yusuf Islam -- recently was denied entry to the United States.
-- Libya: Powell said he had no current plans to visit Libya, but that he was encouraged by Libya's pledge to scrap its weapons of mass destruction programs. Still, he said Libya remains on the list of states sponsoring terrorism.
Following is the transcript of Powell's interview:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
Interview by Agence France Presse's Matt Lee and Christophe de Roquefeuil
Secretary Colin L. Powell
Washington, D.C.
September 29, 2004
(2:10 p.m. EDT)
MR. LEE: Thanks for sitting down with us.
SECRETARY POWELL: My pleasure.
MR. LEE: Go ahead, Christophe. You won the draw [i.e., you get to ask the first question].
SECRETARY POWELL: Christophe?
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: Thanks for seeing us today. First question on Iraq: Last week you announced an international conference on Iraq. Can you be more specific about the date, place for this conference? And also, I saw that the French government said that this conference should discuss, or begin to discuss, a possible withdrawal of the American soldiers from this country; and so the French are suggesting that the Iraqi insurgents should participate in this conference. What do you think of this -- about this?
SECRETARY POWELL: Let's start with the first point. I mentioned the conference at a number of points last week [at the United Nations], but it was a conference, really, that had been mentioned earlier by [Iraqi Interim] Prime Minister Allawi. And we have been working with him to arrange such a conference.
He has been going around talking to his neighbors, and then he wanted to bring them together and add the G8 [Group of Eight industrialized nations plus Russia] and perhaps some others to it. And so that's what I was referring to last week. As opposed to announcing it, I -- it was something that had been out there, [that] we had been talking about.
We think it is probably going to be held in the latter part of November. Prime Minister Allawi and his staff are in touch with countries in the region to host it. I think one of the leading candidates would be Cairo, Egypt. And details are being worked [out]. We'll certainly be one of the participants, as a member of the G8, but it is a conference that is now being organized by the Iraqi interim government [IIG].
Purpose? To bring the neighbors together: let the industrialized world, represented by the G8 and perhaps some others -- the Arab League, I expect, would be present, a representative of the Arab League, and a representative of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, and maybe one or two others -- and talk about the situation in the region, and how they all could work together to provide greater stability in Iraq, and assist Iraq as it deals with its challenges, and as it gets ready for elections in January.
With respect to the French government, there was some confusion. I think it's been clarified by the French Foreign Ministry. Monsieur Barnier was not in any way suggesting that talking about withdrawal of U.S. forces was either a condition for the conference, which was reported initially, or necessarily an agenda item for the conference. There is no agenda yet for the conference.
I think what Michel was referring to was the U.N. [Security Council] Resolution 1546, that talks about: a year after the passage of the resolution we review the continued presence of the MNF [Multinational Force -- Iraq]. That's the reference that I think he was making, and I think it got, sort of, picked up in a slightly different way, but the French [Foreign] Ministry has corrected it; although, as I've found, the corrections don't always have the same import as the original story.
With respect to -- and certainly it would not be a conference that would include -- I don't think my colleague ever suggested that it would be a conference that would include people who are actively fighting against the government. If people had laid down their arms, and now wanted to participate in the conference, it would be up to the Iraqi interim government to decide who should represent the Iraqi people; but you can't have terrorists going to a conference.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: Just a follow-up on --
SECRETARY POWELL: Nor did I read that into any of the French remarks. I didn't think that's what they said.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: Right. Just to follow up on Iraq, what's your assessment of the security situation in this country? I saw a survey published this morning in The New York Times, very pessimistic about the number of attacks occurring in --
SECRETARY POWELL: It's a difficult environment. And some parts of the country are reasonably quiet, very quiet, and reasonably secure, quite secure. Other parts of the country are seeing increased activity.
The Sunni Triangle remains the center of the insurgency and has to be dealt with, and we anticipated and said, I think, at the time of transition that the insurgents would do everything they could: one, to keep there from being a smooth transition to an interim government; and they would do everything to try to keep successful elections from taking place, because successful elections mean that the Iraqi people have spoken. And the Iraqi people said, "These are the people we want to be our leaders, not these guys who are putting car bombs out in the streets every day and killing innocent civilians, and killing police who want to sign up to be policemen, or who are destroying the property and facilities and the hopes and dreams of the Iraqi people."
So we knew this would be a tough time, and it is a tough time. But I'm also confident that with the efforts of our multinational forces and with the continued buildup of the Iraqi security forces under the direction of General Petraeus, we'll get on top of it. And we're going full [speed] ahead for elections by the end of [January] 2005. And we're working with the United Nations, working with the Iraqi interim government, and we are now starting to take those steps necessary to organize ourselves for those elections.
MR. LEE: As a related question, you got an agreement today in Damascus with the Syrians, the Iraqis on the (inaudible) of the MNF. I'm wondering if you can elaborate a little bit more on what the Syrians have agreed to do. I assume you're pleased at this as long as they follow through with evidence that they've got.
And also, we have two days from now -- the [U.N.] secretary general [Kofi Annan] is supposed to present his report on Syrian compliance. Is there any way that they can pass the test, as it were, in the next two days?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I think they're two separate things.
MR. LEE: Right.
SECRETARY POWELL: The U.N. resolution, I think I'll wait for the secretary general to report before characterizing what score the Syrians get on their compliance with the resolution; but I hope it's a tough report. I hope it's a report that makes it clear that the international community is expecting more compliance than we have seen so far; but I'll withhold judgment until we've seen the report.
Separate and distinct from that: in Damascus, we have had tripartite meetings. A number of understandings have come out of this meeting, with respect to commitment with the IIG and the coalition and the Syrians to stop illicit activity across the [Iraqi-Syrian] border, and to take a number of other measures that would enhance cooperation: sharing of information, sharing of intelligence.
I don't have the whole list in mind, I'm sure Richard [Boucher, State Department spokesman] will get it in the next day or so for you. But I think it is a positive step, but what really matters is action and not just an agreement. But the fact that the Syrians, the Iraqi interim government, and the Multinational Force -- to include U.S. generals -- actually sat down in Damascus to go over these matters; I think we should say it is a positive step forward.
Now, what we have to see is action on the part of the Syrians. They have also taken a few other steps -- with respect to financial activities and intelligence activities -- that I also find positive; but what really counts is completed action, not intentions.
MR. LEE: And what about Hamas and PIJ [Palestinian Islamic Jihad]?
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't have anything to report on that, except that [Syrian] Foreign Minister Shara and I had a very thorough discussion of this last week, and I know that they are examining the situation. And they had some ideas, but we'll see whether any of these ideas bear fruit.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: On Iran, this morning the Russians have said that they still don't think that the case, the Iranian case, belongs to the [U.N.] Security Council. And you're still arguing to bring this thing to the Security Council next month?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we thought -- we thought it should have gone to the Security Council last year; but at this point, it's not that important to analyze what the Russians think or what the Americans think. What the Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency [IAEA] thinks is that Iran has to come into full compliance with its obligations, and that Iran should consider the position that it is in. And the 35-member board of the IAEA says that when they examine this again in November, they'll have to make a judgment as to whether Iran has complied or not.
And I think if the judgment is no, and Iran has not satisfied the community, there will be more of a consensus to refer to the Security Council than there was this month. And so we will see.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: Do you think you can get unanimity on this?
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know. We'll see.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: Will you go for a vote --
SECRETARY POWELL: I think -- of course we'll go for a vote. We always go for a vote at an IAEA meeting. But I can't tell you now because, one, I can't see into the future, and I don't know what the Iranians might do between now and then.
It is really not what we do: it's what the Iranians do between now and November that will decide what happens in November.
MR. LEE: Barring the overnight creation of some kind of time machine or a transporter device, it seems like the six-party talks [on North Korea's nuclear weapons program] aren't going to happen in September -- resumption of them. What have the -- what have the North Koreans squandered by stalling? And for whatever reason they offer, I mean, do they think they're going to get a better deal if there's a change in [the U.S.] administration here than they -- or whatever. But what have they -- where have they missed out?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think they've lost an opportunity, or they're delaying an opportunity -- it's not a lost opportunity, but certainly a delayed opportunity -- to work with the international community to achieve the goal that all six parties agreed to, and that is, denuclearization of the peninsula.
I think what they're also delaying is an opportunity for the international community to give them what they've asked for: a security agreement; and to provide them assistance with their internal economic needs, whether it's in the form of fuel from some of the countries -- initially, not us -- or other economic assistance.
So all of that, I think, is put into abeyance, and what is causing them to delay: One can speculate on all one wishes to. People think it's because of our election. There are other scenarios that there have been some internal debates, and other problems of a personal nature, inside the regime. I don't know. But the United States stands ready, with the other members of the six-party framework, to pursue this.
We believe that a diplomatic solution is possible. The president has made it clear that that's what he seeks. He wants to help the North Korean people in their time of need. We want and must have a denuclearized peninsula, and we have no intention of invading or attacking North Korea and -- notwithstanding their repeating the case constantly -- no hostile intent.
MR. LEE: Right. Well, you're meeting with the Chinese foreign minister tomorrow. I mean, do you expect to talk about the new kind -- new dates or new ideas?
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know. I don't know that we have any new dates immediately in mind. We'll have to wait and see.
MR. LEE: What was it -- to go to -- to move onto -- yesterday, in this interview with Michael Reagan, you talked about how you were disappointed that the United States has been the only country that had come out of Darfur and said that, determined that -- had made a genocide determination. In your, I mean, if you had your way, what would the others, including the Europeans, what would they be doing with respect to -- with this issue?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, as I said when I made the determination that it was genocide, that it doesn't generate any additional action. It generates additional political pressure and elevates the degree of seriousness and rhetoric, but everybody ought to be doing what they can now, no matter what you call it. The European parliament, I believe, said that it was genocide. Or I think it was the European Assembly -- which you'll check [for] me.
And so there is at least some understanding in European circles that this is a proper description of what's happening; and the [U.N.] secretary general is forming a group to go examine this and come back with a recommendation for the [Security] Council, as required under the Convention, the Genocide Convention.
The most important thing we need to be focusing on right now, and over the next days and weeks, is providing the wherewithal for the AU [African Union] to dispatch additional forces to the region, to serve as monitors and protectors of monitors. And by so doing -- several thousand more -- create a greater presence throughout Darfur, so we can see what's going on. And I think that very presence will deter a lot of what is happening.
And we should continue to press the Sudanese government to do everything they can to bring the Jingaweit [i.e., Arab militias in Sudan attacking Sudanese black populations] and others under control, and also press to get the discussions restarted in Abuja after this adjournment -- that they're under way. Keep pressing for a north-south agreement at Naivasha, and that's showing a little more promise. And continue to fill the pipeline.
But the concerns about massive, widespread famine have been dealt with, because the pipeline is open and food is moving in. Disease is still a problem. Childhood dysentery is a particular problem. Clean water, sewage -- those are the kinds of things that we know how to do, and I would encourage all of my European colleagues to do as much as they can, and more than we all have. And this was a consistent message I gave. When I met with the EU [European Union] last Wednesday, I even changed the agenda -- I asked to change the agenda of the meeting, so that we could put Sudan No. 1: not Iraq, not Iran, but Sudan. And they all agreed, and I think I got solid support from [Netherlands Foreign Minister] Ben Bot and the EU.
MR. LEE: But when you spoke of disappointment, what were you --
SECRETARY POWELL: Disappointment is: I wish other people would have come to the conclusion we did -- that it constitutes genocide -- and maybe that would have ratcheted up more pressure on the regime.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: I have a question on oil. How worried are you about the situation on the oil markets and the increase of the price of oil? Is it something --
SECRETARY POWELL: Did you say Korea? I'm sorry.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: No, no, oil. Excuse me.
SECRETARY POWELL: Oil.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: The oil markets and the rising of the price of oil on the international markets: is it something you are discussing with other countries, with Saudi Arabia, with OPEC countries?
SECRETARY POWELL: We -- it's a matter of continuous discussion. As you know, the president took some action last week to make available for sale some of the oil that is in our SPR, Strategic Petroleum Reserve. And I saw that the Saudis have made some announcements recently that they would "up" their production to somewhere around 11 -- 11 1/2 -- million barrels per day. And so we are in constant discussion with the oil-producing nations. We are watching with interest the disturbances that are taking place in the Niger Delta of Nigeria, and I had a conversation with President Obasanjo about that last Thursday evening. And, so yes, we do stay in touch with them.
It's the Secretary of Energy, Mr. [Spencer] Abraham, that tends to follow this a little more closely than I do.
MR. LEE: OK I'm -- I've got little time. I've got just, you know, very -- three very brief things. Two are --
SECRETARY POWELL: You say you want three very brief answers?
MR. LEE: Sure, if you want to give them.
The first one has to do with two U.N. staffing questions, which, one on the IAEA: I've heard [Director General Mohamed] ElBaradei is going -- wants to serve a third term and in the past, the U.S. has been opposed to anyone, sort of, whether they --
SECRETARY POWELL: Yeah, we think that the -- I think it's called the Geneva Rule -- it's a good rule.
MR. LEE: So you would not support his --
SECRETARY POWELL: We think the Geneva Rule is a good rule: two terms. We think it's a good rule. It's been, it's been not -- it's been not followed in the past on many occasions, more often than not.
MR. LEE: Right.
SECRETARY POWELL: But we still think it's a good, useful rule.
MR. LEE: In this specific case?
SECRETARY POWELL: We will make our judgment on specific cases when the time comes to make judgments on specific cases.
MR. LEE: OK, well, I -- because then, but, when you say you think it's a good rule, no exceptions to it?
SECRETARY POWELL: I've told him that. You know, Mohammed knows that, we talked about it, I think it's a good rule. He's free to offer his candidacy, yeah.
MR. LEE: Right. OK, but you -- we, I won't ask you that.
And then at the U.N. --
SECRETARY POWELL: As you know, Matt, we wait until we have such votes before we decide.
MR. LEE: Right. But the ASEAN [Association of Southeast Asian Nations] countries have put forward a Thai foreign minister as a candidate, and you didn't --
SECRETARY POWELL: I noticed that.
MR. LEE: -- to be the next secretary general, and so Kofi Annan, your friend is up for his term is up for -- his term is up in a couple of years, or a year-and-a-half from now, or something. Same question.
SECRETARY POWELL: I know the minister very well, as you know. He is -- I consider him not only a dear colleague but a good friend. And I'm pleased that he would offer himself up for service, and I'm not surprised. In fact, I congratulate him and ASEAN for ASEAN standing behind him. But it's premature to make judgments on this matter. We don't know what the full universe of candidacies might be, and this is some time in the future.
MR. LEE: OK, and then, in this interview --
SECRETARY POWELL: And he -- I knew he was going to do it.
MR. LEE: The Thais always want their hand in WTO World Trade Organization].
SECRETARY POWELL: Well it's, these are --
MR. LEE: In the interview you did earlier, you made mention of a review -- you have to review the Cat Stevens and Ramadan [border enforcement] cases.
MS. MILLER: Al-Jazeera.
SECRETARY POWELL: When did I say that?
MS. MILLER: Al-Jazeera.
MR. LEE: This morning.
MS. MILLER: Al-Jazeera.
SECRETARY POWELL: Yeah, oh, at Al-Jazeera?
MR. LEE: Yeah. What -- is there a review going on that you're aware of?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think it's always important when you have cases where there -- people have questions, whether or not the right choice is made, not only for celebrities such as Mr. Stevens, or Yusuf Alia [sic] as he calls himself now.
MR. DE ROQUEFEUIL: Yusuf Islam.
SECRETARY POWELL: Islam. I'm sorry. Yusuf Islam, but also -- and Mr. Ramadan, a very prominent individual -- but for the average citizen coming across [who] gets stopped. I, on a regular basis, whenever these cases come in -- and they do come in on a very regular basis -- my staff will tell you that I look into them to see if we have done the right thing, because we want to secure our borders, but we want also to make sure that we remain an open nation. And so these two particular cases were asked of me on Al-Jazeera this morning. I said we're reviewing them to see -- to make sure the basis upon which they were denied admission was a sound basis.
MR. LEE: That review is still underway?
SECRETARY POWELL: Hmm?
MR. LEE: That review, as far as you know, is still underway -- is that here, or is it at DHS [U.S. Department of Homeland Security], or who does --
SECRETARY POWELL: It's a combination. It's my office, Homeland Security, intelligence agencies: whatever the source of the information was that caused our "watch list" to suggest that these two individuals should be denied entry.
I think we have that obligation to review these matters, to see if we got it right. And I do that for average citizens. If you checked my mailroom, they -- you know, there's always somebody. I'm saying: It's not special treatment for anybody.
MR. LEE: Right. The conference that Christophe was talking about before: You have no problems with the Iranians being there, sitting down with Mr. Kharazi and --
SECRETARY POWELL: Neighbors. No, I, I -- remember 6 plus 2 [i.e., multilateral meetings about Afghanistan that included the United States and Iran]?
MR. LEE: Right. So: not a problem? Well, what about, then, the -- are relations with Libya warm enough to the point where you might consider visiting Tripoli?
SECRETARY POWELL: Everybody else is. (Laughter.) But I don't have any immediate plans to visit Tripoli. Mr. [Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs William] Burns is taking care of travel requirements.
MR. LEE: Could you see yourself going there at some point?
SECRETARY POWELL: Sure. Why not? But I don't have any plans now. Libya is still on our list of terrorist states. I must say that I'm pleased at the progress we have made, with respect to weapons of mass destruction and, we ended Phase Three of our "game plan." And I think there's much more that Libya has to do. There are some outstanding issues with respect to Saudi Arabia and Libya; and so I have no plans to visit Libya.
MR. LEE: OK. You have visited Syria and Sudan, which are also on [the list of state sponsors of terrorism]: Isn't that true?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes; I didn't say that it was disqualifying. What I said was: There are still outstanding issues, and I have no plans to visit Libya. And I did meet the foreign minister -- the first meeting between two foreign ministers, we have now verified it's 25 years [since the last meeting of U.S. and Libyan ministers].
MR. LEE: It wasn't since '69?
MR. BOUCHER: October 4, 1979.
SECRETARY POWELL: '79. Cyrus Vance.
MR. LEE: Ah, who also went to Syria.
SECRETARY POWELL: I think it was the same trip. (Laughter.)
MR. LEE: Thank you very much.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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