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30 April 2003

Grossman Says U.S. is Liberator, not Occupier of Iraq

(Says U.S. is seeing democracy "start to appear in Iraq") (2860)
Marc Grossman, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, told
Al-Arabiyya TV on April 25 that the U.S. considers itself to be the
liberator, not the occupier, of Iraq. Grossman also said the U.S. is
seeing "democracy start to appear" in Iraq, and is working to help
Iraqis rebuild their country as a democratic, multiethnic Iraq that is
at peace with its neighbors.
"[W]e want to get this country back to where it belongs, which is to
be run by the people of Iraq," Grossman said. But he added that the
process could take take some time.
"The people of Iraq are very happy to be free of that dictator, and we
are seeing democracy start to appear in Iraq," he said.
"So we are prepared, and I hope the Iraqi people are prepared, to take
a little time here so that the interim authority actually represents
Iraqis. ... That interim authority has to have some legitimacy in the
eyes of the Iraqi people," he said.
Grossman noted the significant progress made in the last few days in
restoring services to Iraqis. "Water is back in Basra. The lights have
come back on in much of Baghdad. People are starting again to have
services. Medical supplies have started to flow. Aircraft are starting
to come to the Baghdad International Airport."
Asked if the U.S. would accept a religious Shia government in Iraq,
Grossman said, "Obviously, we did not liberate Iraqis just to have
another kind of dictatorship come, and so what we want is a democratic
Iraq that is a multiethnic Iraq and a multi-religious Iraq as well,
that's got everybody involved in it."
Responding to a question about U.S. relations with Syria, Grossman
said the U.S. needs to have a dialogue with Syria about the issues
that concern the U.S.: Syria's support for terrorism, and its
possession of weapons of mass destruction. "There's a changed
environment in the region," Grossman said, "and we would like Syria to
pay attention to those changes."
Following is the transcript of Under Secretary for Political Affairs
Grossman's interview with Al-Arabiyya TV on April 25, 2003:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of State
Interview by Al-Arabiyya TV
Marc Grossman, Under Secretary for Political Affairs
April 25, 2003
(2:00 p.m. EDT)
QUESTION: The U.S. is facing criticism worldwide about the U.S.
presence in Iraq. On what basis will the U.S. decide when to leave?
Not too early, not too late?
MR. GROSSMAN: First of all, thank you very much for the opportunity to
be with you. I think you've summed it up perfectly. We faced some
criticism before we and our coalition partners went into Iraq, but
what did we do? We went in to try and create an Iraq that's
democratic, that's multiethnic, that has no weapons of mass
destruction, got its territorial integrity, is at peace with its
neighbors.
Those are honorable goals and I think, actually, if you look around
the world, you see more and more people recognizing: one, that we got
rid of a dictator, two, that the people of Iraq are very happy to be
free of that dictator, and we are seeing democracy start to appear in
Iraq. And what President Bush said was we would stay as long as it
takes, not one day longer, and that remains our goal.
QUESTION: Now the situation is not very happy. The Iraqis, some of
them are not that happy that for the U.S. presence. How do you comment
on that when you see demonstrations all over, especially in Muslim
Shia cities, asking the U.S. to leave?
MR. GROSSMAN: It doesn't surprise me, actually. When you think of
what's happened over the last four weeks -- as you had 20, 25 years of
this dictatorship and in four weeks or five weeks, suddenly Iraq is
completely different. Saddam Hussein is gone. People are doing things
that they haven't done in years. For example, when you see all the
Shia people marching to Karbala -- for the first time in 20 years to
be able to express their religious opinion -- it doesn't surprise me
at all that there's extra energy involved in all of that.
People want to see results. They want to see results now. They want
their lives to change. And I understand that frustration and that's
why President Bush, Secretary Powell, and Secretary Rumsfeld have
focused so much energy and attention on this. That's why retired
General Jay Garner is there. That's why we've got a huge effort on the
humanitarian side. And think of what happened over the past few days:
95 percent of the electricity is back in Basra. Water is back in
Basra. The lights have come back on in much of Baghdad. People are
starting again to have services. Medical supplies have started to
flow. Aircraft are starting to come to the Baghdad International
Airport. So people, I think, are honestly frustrated. They want things
to happen faster. I would, too, if I was in their position. But I
think they will come to see that America is there as a liberator and
not an occupier, and they will start to see the benefits of this
liberation.
QUESTION: So you think U.S. will gain more support in these upcoming
days?
MR. GROSSMAN: I don t know the answer to that question. What I would
say to you is that I hope that Iraqis will have more support for
themselves. I mean, it's not our goal to run Iraq and we want to get
this country back to where it belongs, which is to be run by the
people of Iraq. So what I hope will happen, as did at the Nasiriyah
meeting, as will at a meeting in Baghdad next Monday, that Iraqis will
start to have some self-confidence; that Iraqis, themselves, will
start to take control of their lives so that people are not saying,
"Well, why isn't America providing this? Why isn t the United Kingdom
providing that," that Iraqis will begin to provide these things for
themselves. That will be a real success.
QUESTION: Speaking of Nasiriyah meeting and the Iraqi oppositions, are
you anticipating any problems? We're waiting, the Iraqis are waiting
for this interim government and it's not there yet. Why it's not there
yet? Are there any problems for forming this interim government?
MR. GROSSMAN: No, I don t think there are any problems at all. Indeed,
you could take this two ways. If you said to me, "Oh we're waiting for
the interim government and the interim authority to be formed," and if
I was to say to you, "Oh, well fine, I will go out five minutes from
now and form it," you would rightly say, "Well, that's not a very
democratic way to do business. That's not why I was liberated."
So we are prepared, and I hope the Iraqi people are prepared, to take
a little time here so that the interim authority actually represents
Iraqis. It wasn't easy to bring people together to the meeting in
Nasiriyah. It's not going to be easy to bring everybody together on
Monday in Baghdad. But that interim authority has to have some
legitimacy in the eyes of the Iraqi people. And so the alternatives
that you give me: impose an Iraqi Government on Iraqis, or, spend some
time, have some democracy -- maybe it's not perfect and efficient, but
it brings some legitimacy to that government. I will always choose the
second of those chances.
QUESTION: It seems there are complications in reforming this
government and these complications have delayed it. Don't you think
the Iraqi need to see an Iraqi face, an Iraqi leader, especially now
with the chaos that's happening, with everything the looting -- they
need an Iraqi face. Don't you think so?
MR. GROSSMAN: I agree with you completely. But again, think back to
the Nasiriyah meeting. That meeting took place before all of Iraq was
actually liberated, and people have said to me, "Well, why weren't
there representatives of all 18 provinces at the meeting in
Nasiriyah?" And the answer to that question is, all 18 provinces were
not yet under the control of the coalition.
I think you'll see a different meeting on Monday. That meeting will be
more representative. I don't say it'll be perfect, but it will be a
step beyond where we were in Nasiriyah and a step beyond where Iraqis
were in Nasiriyah: external Iraqis, internal Iraqis, more people who
have been liberated, and it s to Iraqis now to establish their own
government. I don't see the United States coming in and saying, "It
has to be this way [or that way]." This is for Iraqis to decide.
QUESTION: There are concerns about security things. The looting
happened. One of the disasters that happened was the Iraqi museum --
accusations that the U.S. didn't do anything while the museum was
gone. How do you respond to that?
MR. GROSSMAN: First, I think it is a great tragedy what happened with
the Iraqi museum and no one should say any differently. But what we
have been trying to do since then, first of all, with our law
enforcement operation around the world is to make sure that what was
taken from that museum doesn't then get into the international market.
Second thing is -- and I'll just show you a picture here of General
Garner visiting with the head of the Iraqi museum -- we've tried very
hard to say we are going to be involved in the resurrection of this
museum, the renewal of this museum.
And I'd say finally, the other interesting thing to me is stories that
came out of Baghdad yesterday and the day before about the number of
people who were arriving with pick-up trucks and taking things back
into the museum. And why was that? They heard it was being looted,
they rushed out to protect their own heritage and their own history,
and then now we're bringing it back. So I hope more and more people
will be able to do that; we'll be able to catch those criminals who
looted this museum -- a crime really against the Iraqi people.
We'll work around the world with other allies and law enforcement
agencies and, as I showed you in this picture, we want to pay
attention to this very, very energetically in the days and weeks
ahead.
QUESTION: Ambassador Grossman, we talked -- you talked about Iraqi
Government -- elections. What type of a government the U.S. would
accept? For example, how about if there is a religious Shia
government? Would that be acceptable for the U.S.?
MR. GROSSMAN: Obviously we did not liberate Iraqis just to have
another kind of dictatorship come, and so what we want is a democratic
Iraq that is a multiethnic Iraq and a multi-religious Iraq as well,
that's got everybody involved in it. And I think to be saying now, all
of these negative things about this group or that group -- that they
can't possibly participate -- I think that's all wrong.
What we want to do is give people a chance to participate in that
society; and that's Sunnis and Shias and Kurds and Turkoman and
Assyrians. Everybody has a chance, it seems to me, to participate in
Iraqi society. When we say "democratic" and "multiethnic," that's
really what we mean.
QUESTION: Even if the Shia would take -- I wouldn't say would take
over, but the majority are Shia. And if the president of, the new
president of Iraq would be a Shia that could be -- some of the
neighbor countries would see it as a threat, especially in the Gulf:
Saudi Arabia and Kuwait; and Iran is there. Would that be a real
threat?
MR. GROSSMAN: But you see, I think that you jump ahead one. And that
is the question, "Is Iraq a democracy or not?" And my view is if Iraq
is a functioning democracy and all of the people of Iraq -- again,
Sunni, Shias, Turkoman, Kurds -- everybody has a chance to participate
in that, then everyone will have lifted up their sights.
Think of the last 20 or 25 years. How did Saddam Hussein rule?
Dividing. Dividing. Dividing. Pressing on the divisions in Iraqi
society. And I don't see why we can't, all of us, have a vision of
Iraqi society that is a unified vision. And so I don't see how a
multiethnic, democratic Iraq that has its territorial integrity but
has no weapons of mass destruction, that's functioning economically
can be anything but at peace with its neighbors. And that's our
vision.
QUESTION: Saudi Arabia, in a statement called and described the U.S.
presence in Iraq as an occupation and asked for an Arab role in the
process. How do you respond to that? To an occupation from Saudi?
MR. GROSSMAN: Obviously we consider ourselves to be liberators of
Iraq, not the occupiers of Iraq, and we have been looking for
participation in the renewal of Iraq now for some weeks.
Now, Saudi Arabia, for example, has offered a military hospital and
some other assistance. The Gulf Cooperation Council states are also
interested in participating. I believe that in the renewal of Iraq,
there's going to be enough work for many people and many groups and
many countries, and we'll be looking to create the largest coalition
possible. And I believe, that for the Iraqi people, the more people
who participate in this, the better.
QUESTION: Talking about Syria, Secretary Powell told Al-Arabiyya
yesterday that there are two major issues with Syria. Number one is
supporting of the terrorist groups, number two, weapons of mass
destruction. Why now?
MR. GROSSMAN: Well, it isn't now. I think as Secretary Powell has said
on a number of occasions, Syria, of course, has been on our list of
Supporters of Foreign Terrorist Organizations, for many, many years.
And so I think what's happening now is so many people in the world are
finally awakening to this question of terrorism and are awakening to
how important it is to the United States and to everybody around the
world. I would have to check, but I believe Syria has been on this
list for 15 or 18 years. So that isn't a "now" question.
The other issue on weapons of mass destruction isn't a now question
either. We have been talking to the Syrians and other people for years
and years about chemical weapons and other weapons of mass
destruction. So, as Secretary Powell said, these are issues of great
interest to us and he looks forward to going to Damascus and having, I
think what he called a very straight conversation with people there
about what it is that bothers us. And as he also said, I'm sure the
Syrians will respond. But we need to get into a dialogue with them
about these things.
But with all due respect to your question, neither of these issues are
new in the U.S.-Syrian conversation.
QUESTION: They are not new, but we don't hear about Syria every single
day. The past two or three weeks, we hear "Syria, Syria, Syria."
That's why I asked why now. Syria, especially weapons of mass
destruction, has been there for a long time.
MR. GROSSMAN: Absolutely.
QUESTION: But the pressure is now. That was my question: that -- it's
not the same pressure that the U.S. had six months ago. We didn't see
it.
MR. GROSSMAN: I think part of it seeing and part of it is looking. I
think if you and I would have had this conversation six months ago and
you'd have asked me about Syria, I believe that I would have said
we're concerned about terrorism and weapons of mass destruction. But I
think the point that you make, and a fair point, as Secretary Powell
has said is, one of the things that the Syrians need to recognize is
there's been a change in the environment. And that change in the
environment started on the 11th of September, 2001, where terrorism
became, I think, a global issue. Don't forget, 80 countries lost
citizens on the 11th of September. And so this is an issue in which
there's a changed environment. There's a changed environment in the
region, and we would like Syria to pay attention to those changes.
QUESTION: My last and short question.
MR. GROSSMAN: Please.
QUESTION: Was Syria involved in any handing over Iraqi officials?
MR. GROSSMAN: You mean over the last few days?
QUESTION: Yes.
MR. GROSSMAN: I don't know the answer to that question. I know that
they've done quite a good job, apparently, of sealing their border.
Whether they've handed over Iraqi officials in the last few days, I
don't know.
QUESTION: Ambassador Grossman, thank you very much.
MR. GROSSMAN: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure. [End]
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)