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Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)

Washington File

30 April 2003

Rumsfeld Says Former Officials Are Key To Finding Iraqi WMD

(Remarks with Saudi defense minister and interview with MBC television
April 29) (4700)
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Saddam Hussein's regime was
"very successful" in hiding its weapons of mass destruction, and said
coalition forces would be more likely to find them "when we find the
people who know where they are, who were involved in the programs and
were involved in hiding [them]."
Rumsfeld was speaking in a joint media availability with Saudi Defense
Minister Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz in Riyadh April 29. On the same
day he was also interviewed by Hussein Jamal on the Middle East
Broadcasting Company (MBC) satellite television network.
He told MBC that the former Iraqi regime "dispersed these weapons and
they dispersed the documentation all across the country in various
locations, hid them and did so very successfully, which is why the
inspectors didn't find anything," and speculated that, like United
Nations weapons inspectors, coalition forces "very likely will not
find anything either immediately."
However, "[w]e'll find the people who managed to hide the documents,
the people who managed to do the work, and at some point when they're
no longer frightened of Saddam Hussein, and they're willing to talk,
they will come to us," said Rumsfeld on MBC.
The U.S. defense secretary also said the withdrawal of most U.S.
forces from Saudi Arabia was by mutual agreement with the government
of King Fahd. "We noted today that this will be done in a manner that
reflects our close cooperation and friendship between our countries,"
he said, speaking with Prince Sultan.
The Saudi defense minister agreed that with the completion of the
Southern Watch Operation directed against Saddam Hussein's regime,
"there is obviously no need for those troops to remain."
In the aftermath of the former Iraqi leader's fall from power,
Rumsfeld explained that coalition forces would continue to remain in
Iraq in order to create a secure environment and provide humanitarian
aid.
"[W]e're going to create an environment [so] that [Iraqis] can fashion
a new government. It will be an Iraqi government that has been
fashioned by Iraqi people and it will not be a government that is
imposed by the United States," he said on MBC.
He went on to speculate that the process of selecting a government
will be contentious, but free.
"My guess is that it'll be a process where a lot of people will
compete; a lot of people will have ideas; a lot of people will be free
to talk and they'll criticize and they'll argue and they'll
discuss-that's what's free people do," he said.
Following are the transcripts of Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's remarks
at the joint media availability with Saudi Defense Minister Prince
Sultan; and his interview with MBC's Hussein Jamal:
(begin transcript)
Updated 29 Apr 2003
United States Department of Defense
News Transcript
On the web: http://dod.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030429-secdef0134.html
Media contact: media@defenselink.mil or +1 (703) 697-5131
Public contact: public@defenselink.mil or +1 (703) 428-0711
Presenter: Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Tuesday, April 29, 2003
Secretary Rumsfeld Joint Media Availability with Prince Sultan (Joint
media availability with High Royal Highness Prince Sultan Bin Abdul
Aziz Al Saud, second deputy prime minister, minister of defense and
aviation and inspector-general of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,
Al-Azzizia Palace, Riyadh, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.)
Prince Sultan: My brothers, my colleagues, my friends and the press
corps, we all would like to welcome the U.S. secretary of defense and
the relationship between Saudi Arabia and the U.S. Please be brief in
your questions because, as you all know, that we do not have any
differences in our views between our two countries. And let us not
believe all that might be said in the world press; those who say that
there are differences between the two countries contrary to what has
been shaped by late King Abdulaziz and late President Roosevelt. Thank
you.
Q: Jaser Al-Jaser, Al-Jazirah newspaper. Has there been any discussion
about the presence of the American forces related to the U.N.
resolution? This question is for U.S. secretary of defense.
Rumsfeld: First let me just say that we have had a very good meeting.
We appreciate the hospitality of the prince, and we look forward to
meeting the crown prince. With respect to the forces, we did discuss
the change that is taking place in the region. This is now a safer
region because of the change in the regime in Iraq. With the end of
the Operation Southern Watch, and the successful liberation of the
Iraqi people, we have had discussions about our ability now to
rearrange our forces in this part of the world. By mutual agreement,
the aircraft involved now, of course, will be able to leave. They will
leave with us grateful for the support throughout the operation that
the Kingdom provided.
Over time, we anticipate that our forces in the region will be able to
be reduced. We noted today that this will be done in a manner that
reflects our close cooperation and friendship between our countries.
Q: Charles Aldinger, Reuters. I would like to ask your Royal Highness,
when you said that there are no differences between the two countries
and yet don't you let --
Prince Sultan: First, let me explain, the forces that are here were
basically implementing the Southern Watch Operation and have after the
end of the Southern Watch Operation, there is obviously no need for
those troops to remain. This is does not mean that we requested them
to leave or move from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. But as long as
their mission is over, so they will leave.
Q: Abdullah Al Oraifaj, Okaz Newspaper. What is the future of the
mutual cooperation between Saudi Arabia and the U.S. in light of the
new developments in the region? Question is for Prince Sultan.
Prince Sultan: The cooperation between the two countries, even before
the Desert Storm Operation, will continue even after the end of war in
Iraq. The USMTM was here in the Kingdom; there is technical
cooperation about any new technology for the benefit of our armed
forces. And this of course reflects the mutual cooperation between the
two countries.
Q: (Inaudible.), Canadian Broadcasting Corp. To Secretary Rumsfeld.
During this month, the foreign minister said war changes the
relationship between the United Sates and the Arab countries of the
region, and whether that relationship is positive or negative depends
on American conduct. Could I ask you, Mr. Rumsfeld, to respond to that
current skepticism? And ask you both how you would describe the
changes in the relationship between the United States and Saudi
Arabia?
Rumsfeld: The question about the liberation of Iraq has changed the
circumstances in the region. The security environment here is
different today from what it was six weeks ago. The relationships
between our two countries are multidimensional. Diplomatic, economic,
as well as military-to-military, and His Royal Highness has properly
characterized this military relationship as one we look forward to
when we exercise our various activities that are appropriate today.
Whereas the Operation Southern Watch was appropriate to the area 6
weeks ago.
Prince Sultan: I will have similar comments to Mr. Rumsfeld because we
are going toward the same end. Thank you very much.
Q: Abdulaziz al Hindi, Asharq Al-Awsat. Your Excellency, why the
United States doesn't deal with the prisoners of Guantanamo according
to the Geneva Convention? And did the American troops find any weapons
of mass destruction in Iraq? Thank you very much.
Secretary Rumsfeld: I think it is accurate to say that the United
States' treatment of the detainees in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba is
consistent with Geneva Convention. The International Committee of the
Red Cross has visited there and has people there almost continuously
and the many countries that visited and have representatives in
Guantanamo come away agreeing that detainees are being treated in a
most humane and proper manner. The intelligence information that has
been gained from them is helpful in the global war on terrorism.
The United States is not detaining those people because it likes to
detain them, but they were arrested on a battlefield and they have
been detained so that the information they have enables us, and the
rest of the world, to avoid future terrorism actions.
With respect to weapons of mass destruction, the regime of Saddam
Hussein was very successful in conducting themselves so that they
could live with inspections by the United Nations for years and years
and years, and they hid what they were doing, and buried what they
were doing and it is likely that the inspectors found very little. And
my impression is that weapons of mass destruction may not be found
through happenstance or discovery, instead they will be found when we
find the people who know where they are, who were involved in the
programs and were involved in hiding. That's been the case so far.
(Inaudible) We have been consistently capturing and finding the senior
leadership from that country. Every day one or more turns up. They are
not being discovered. What's happing is that the Iraqi people are
coming to us saying, "Here they are," and "They are found in that
house." It is with the cooperation of the Iraqi people that we were
able to do these things in a successful [way].
Q: Solaiman al Okaili, Alwatan Newspaper. Question to Mr. Rumsfeld.
There are fears among public opinion, especially in Saudi Arabia and
in the Arab world, about the hidden American agenda for the region.
Everybody has found the threat against Syria. And there are also fears
about the concept of preventive strikes actually because they fear
that it might lead to further wars in the region. Can you Mr. Rumsfeld
explain what is the defense policy of the United States regarding the
region?
Rumsfeld: Yes. I can. And I shall. First of all we don't have a
defense policy. We have national policy and the president's policy.
Second we have no hidden agenda. Indeed, the United States with our
free press and for whatever reason we can't hide anything. Even things
we try to hide. Our policy is straightforward.
Next, I think it is a mischaracterization to say that we threatened
Syria. We are not in the business of threatening, but what the
President said, what Secretary Powell said, and what I said is the
truth. And the truth was that Syria was permitting weapons to go into
Iraq when we were in war with Iraq. And we didn't like it and we said
so. Second, Syria was allowing senior Iraqis to go into 'Iraq'
[Syria]. We didn't like it. We don't like it, and we said so. Third,
Iraq, Syria was permitting busloads of people to move from Syria into
Iraq with weapons and they were being given money to do it. Now, when
you are in a war, you don't like neighboring countries sending weapons
or fighters into the country to try to kill Coalition forces. It seems
to be a perfectly reasonable position. It is a fact, not a threat. And
that is all I have to say.
Q: Mansour Al Omari, Al Youm Newspaper. To Prince Sultan: How do you
view, Your Royal Highness, about the return of Iraq to the atmosphere,
the sphere of the surrounding region, the Gulf countries?
Prince Sultan: We are all too happy to have. Saddam Hussein did among
the Arab countries before he dragged (Inaudible.)
Q: Eric Schmidt, New York Times. Your Highness, to what extent do you
believe that Iran poses a threat to the emerging government, new
civilian government in Iraq and to the security of the Gulf region
itself?
Prince Sultan: I don't think that Iran has an animosity vision towards
Iraq. And also we don't think that Iran will be making any kind of
problem for a government that really hasn't started. I think Iraq will
stay as a whole.
(end transcript)
(begin transcript)
Updated 29 Apr 2003
United States Department of Defense
News Transcript
On the web: http://dod.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030429-secdef0135.html
Media contact: media@defenselink.mil or +1 (703) 697-5131
Public contact: public@defenselink.mil or +1 (703) 428-0711
Presenter: Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Tuesday, April 29, 2003
Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with Middle East Broadcasting (Interview
with Hussein Jamal, director of political programs at Kuwait TV and
Middle East Broadcasting correspondent.)
Q: Thank you very much, sir, for giving us this chance. The first
question is whether transferring the command control from Saudi Arabia
to Qatar was done for political or military purposes, and was it
pre-planned?
Rumsfeld: Well, first of all, I think that that question is something
which is more appropriately asked to General Franks. It certainly is
not for political reasons; it's a matter of the commander in this
region having made a judgment that he wants to rearrange some of the
forces. Several things have happened. One is that Operation Southern
Watch has been completed. There is no need for that activity. So,
those aircraft and the people who were responsible for that activity
will be leaving and going elsewhere. Second, the change of regime in
Iraq changes the security situation substantially in the region, and
of course the opportunity that that brings is for us to decide how we
want to arrange our forces. In this case, General Franks has made
various recommendations which I will be in the process of considering
and working with the governments in the region, cooperatively, so that
things are arranged in a way that are comfortable with the countries
here and also comfortable for the United States.
Q: While we'll talking about Iraq, in this region we're hearing that
there is a sort of a "deal" between Saddam Hussein and coalition
forces in which he was disappeared. And --
Rumsfeld: That's just ridiculous. That is absolutely ridiculous. The
United States doesn't do secret deals with people like Saddam Hussein,
and I can't imagine anyone who could be so confused that they would
even think such a ridiculous conspiratorial theory. It's nonsense.
Q: How can you explain his disappearance and not yet to be captured?
Do you think he will be captured soon?
Rumsfeld: I don't know. The one thing we know for sure is that he's
not running Iraq. He is no longer the head of Iraq. Iraq is in
different hands at the present time. Soon it'll be in the hands of the
Iraqi people. That's our hope. That's our expectation. You say, how
can you explain? It's easy to explain. It is very hard to find a
single person. The United States armed forces are designed to deal
with armies, navies and air forces, not to do individual manhunts,
that's the kind of thing that's police work. It is very easy in a
country this large -- of Iraq for a single person who has -- knows
it's coming, to make plans, to go into an underground facility
somewhere and hide. And if that's what's happened, that's what's
happened. But will we find him eventually? Sure.
Q: Till now, Coalition forces did not discover the weapons of mass
destruction. And this is the main reason that the Freedom of Iraq war
was to start with. How do you explain this to the Arab viewers and to
the world?
Rumsfeld: Well, if you think about it, the inspectors were in Iraq for
month after month after month, year after year, and it's a big
country. And the Saddam Hussein regime was determined to hide what
they were doing. So what did they do? They dispersed these weapons and
they dispersed the documentation all across the country in various
locations, hid them and did so very successfully, which is why the
inspectors didn't find anything. What we will do is we very likely
will not find anything either immediately. What we will find is, over
time, we'll find the people who did it. We'll find the people who
managed to hide the documents, the people who managed to do the work,
and at some point when they're no longer frightened of Saddam Hussein,
and they're willing to talk, they will come to us. We're having this
happen right now, if you think about it. There isn't a day that goes
by that one of the senior people isn't captured. They're not captured
because people just stumble over them and discover them. They're
captured because local Iraqis are coming up and saying, "Look,
Coalition. Down that street in the next block, you're going to find
somebody that you're looking for." And they're cooperating with the
Coalition, so it's very easy to explain.
Q: One of the things the Coalition has done is to change the regime,
then replace the regime with another regime which is more democratic,
a new system in Iraq, a new life in Iraq, but still there is no new
government. There is not been much progress in this regard. Many are
talking about this in this region.
Rumsfeld: That's fascinating. Six weeks ago Saddam Hussein was in
charge of Iraq. Six weeks later, he's not. And you say lots of people
are talking and saying, "Well, why isn't there a new Iraqi
government?" The idea that in six weeks the Coalition could go in,
take over from Saddam Hussein, put his regime out of business, and
expect that you could have a new government in six weeks is so
unrealistic it's just impossible to believe that people are really
saying what you just said people are saying. I can't even believe
that. Nobody is so unrealistic to think that. It takes a long time for
people to fashion a new government. You've also phrased it that the
United States is going to put in place an Iraqi government. That's not
true. We're not. We're going to create a secure environment; we're
going to provide humanitarian assistance for the people of Iraq,
medicine, food, water. And we're going to create an environment that
they can fashion a new government. It will be an Iraqi government that
has been fashioned by Iraqi people and it will not be a government
that is imposed by the United States.
Q:  How about --
Rumsfeld: If we wanted to impose a government, we could do it
tomorrow; we could do it in five seconds. Just like that, go in and
say, "This is your new government." But would it be worth anything?
No, because it's going to have to be something that is an Iraqi
government.
Q:  How about a transitional government?
Rumsfeld: I think what will happen is that there will be some sort of
a process that will produce an interim, meaning temporary authority,
of some kind that's Iraqi, and the next step would be for that
authority, that interim Iraqi authority, would then work with people
across the country, and fashion a process to develop a new
constitution. It would be a process to figure out at what point in the
future they could have free elections, and what they wanted that
government to look like. And at some point then, the interim
government which people would participate in, Iraqi people, not us,
would then propose something that would produce a permanent Iraqi
government down the road.
Q:  Would this process take a long time?
Rumsfeld:  How long is long?
Q:  You tell me.
Rumsfeld: I don't know. How long will it take? My hope is it takes a
relatively short time, but if we wanted to decide how long it would
take, we could go do it, but then it wouldn't be an Iraqi government.
One would hope it would be relatively short. Iraq is not Afghanistan
of course, on the other hand, Afghanistan went from a no government,
Taliban and al Qaeda running the country, to the United States and the
coalition forces suggesting that they figure out a new government;
they had a process which produced an interim authority, the interim
authority then transitioned and they eventually will have a permanent
government, and it's been decided by the Afghan people. How long did
it take? Well, so far, it's been a year, a year plus. No, it was a
relatively short period of months before they had the interim
authority. The entire process now has been less than two years, less
than a year and a half, I think.
Q:  Is it Ahmed Chalabi that we're looking forward to?
Rumsfeld: I don't know. It's up to the Iraqi people. I have no idea
who will rise out of that process. Who will end up being, what kinds
of people, will be the people that the Iraqi people will decide are
the ones they would like to take them forward to the next step. My
guess is that it'll be a process where a lot of people will compete; a
lot of people will have ideas; a lot of people will be free to talk
and they'll criticize and they'll argue and they'll discuss-that's
what's free people do. Who will come out of that process at the end? I
have no idea.
Q: I'll shift a bit. Kuwaiti POWs, was it at the top of the
priorities?
Rumsfeld: Oh, absolutely. Our country cares greatly about prisoners of
war, and people who are missing in action. We feel it very deeply. We
had formed many weeks ago, well before war started, we had put
together teams of people, gathered the best information we could find,
and they were prepared the minute pieces of Iraq were occupied by
Coalition forces coming in. The minute they were in able to get ground
truth as to what might be done, they started looking at these possible
sights for people who were prisoners or missing.
Q:  Are they still?
Rumsfeld: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. They have spent enormous number
of hours, they've gone to all kinds of prison and locations, where
pieces of information suggested that the Kuwaiti prisoners and those
missing might be. We have obviously our own, Captain Speicher, who was
missing, and they started from the first day, as soon as they were on
the ground, they are continuing it, and they will continue it, trying
to seek out records, trying to find people who might know something
about what happened, so that the families can bring closure, either we
find the people or we begin to understand what actually happened.
Q: You might have heard this in the Arab world, the Americans
"protected Ministry of Oil ministry because they're looking for the
Iraqi oil, and they disregarded the rest of the ministries and
institutions."
Rumsfeld: Well, first of all you used the word the Arab world as
though there is a single opinion. I find that that's not the case.
I've spent a good deal of time in this part of the world, in many
countries and with many different people over three decades, and I
don't find there is a single unified deal on issues like that, so I
would challenge the premise in your question.
Second, it's easy to criticize and someone can step back and say
something like that, but if anyone looks at the history of the United
States of America, they would know that we don't want Iraqi oil. That
oil belongs to the Iraqi people. We don't covet Iraqi land; we're not
interested in occupying a country. We're a nation of free people who
believe in freedom and want to try to contribute to peace and
stability, and we were attacked by terrorists. We had three thousand
people killed from all nationalities from all countries, men, women
and children who had done nothing wrong, and they were attacked and
killed. What is our interest? Our interest is not the oil, and it will
be clear that that is the case. The money and revenues from that oil
belong to Iraqi people and they will have that. And it will be very
clear in a relatively short period of time, so people running around
pedaling that argument will be proven wrong and I hope when that
happens, people in your business will point out and say: Oh, isn't
that interesting, a bunch of people were saying that and they were
wrong, they were not telling the truth, they were misleading people.
Because it is important that people in your business do that.
Q: One of the things we've heard, if the Iraqis choose a
fundamentalist state, what will the United States do? Are you planning
to have military bases there?
Rumsfeld: No, we're not. First, with respect to bases in Iraq, the air
bases and the port in Iraq today are being used by the Coalition
forces and countries from all over the world, bringing in food,
bringing in medicine, bringing in water for the Iraqi people. With the
threat of a Saddam Hussein regime gone, the United States needs fewer
bases, we need fewer people, not more. So those people who were
running around suggesting that are not accurate.
With respect to Iran, let me say this. I can't tell you what the
government of Iraq will look like in five years. I can say that the
government of Iran, with a handful of clerics running that country and
not allowing the kinds of freedom for women and for young people in
that country is not a model that I would recommend for the Iraqis. I
think replacing the despot, the dictator, who was a vicious dictator,
Saddam Hussein, with a system that is repressive of minorities in that
country, or restrictive of religious freedom in Iraq would not be what
I would recommend. So I doubt that the Iraqi people particularly would
want to have a country or a government that has been influenced by its
neighbors. I think the Iraqi people will resist that. And I don't
believe that that is the future for Iraq. I think they have an
opportunity for freedom; they have an opportunity for a system that
protects religion and protects ethnic diversity, religious diversity
in that country and that they'll go down that path. I would certainly
hope so.
Q: Thank you very much, Mr. Rumsfeld, secretary of Defense. I wish I
had plenty of time as I have plenty of questions, but we don't have
time. Thank you very much for being with us and we hope that you have
a last statement as you travel to Iraq tomorrow, and is it to end the
operation in Iraq?
Rumsfeld:  Is it to end the operation in Iraq?
Q:  Yes, we heard, declaration of ending Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Rumsfeld: No, you certainly hear a lot of things that are unusual. I
don't know quite how that happens, but we feel a responsibility and
the coalition forces do, that if a regime is taken out and there are
humanitarian needs in that country, and there are still pockets of
resistance, there are still people getting killed and wounded
--American and Coalition forces -- by some of these so called death
squads that have been roaming around the countryside, the kinds of
people who had their headquarters in hospitals and schools, the kinds
of people who used the Red Crescent for military purposes and hid
under the guise of humanitarian assistance, and that's the kind of
people they were and they are. And what we need to do is to see that
we create a sufficiently secure environment there, for a period of
time, so that the Iraqi people can fashion themselves the future. And
that's what's going to happen. We're going to move from a phase of
major military activity to a phase of security stabilization, and to
assist and participate in reconstruction and humanitarian assistance.
We're going to stay there, as long as it takes, for that opportunity
for the Iraqi people to fashion a new government and we're not going
to stay one day longer.
Q:  Thank you very much sir.
Rumsfeld:  Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)



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