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05 March 2003

Grossman Connects Iraq, Terror and Weapons of Mass Destruction

(March 3 interview for Dutch TV with Under Secretary of State
Grossman) (2520)
Although the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 happened in the
United States, an attack by terrorists with weapons of mass
destruction (WMD) -- chemical or biological weapons -- could happen in
Europe or anywhere else in the world, Under Secretary of State Marc
Grossman said March 3.
"And so, the time has come now to make a stand against this kind of
connection between weapons of mass destruction and terrorism. And we
think Iraq is a place to make that stand first."
In an interview in Washington with Dutch television, Grossman
discussed the new resolution on Iraq offered to the United Nations
Security Council by Britain, Spain and the United States. "We've put
forward a resolution that's simple, it's clear, it simply states the
fact, which is that Saddam Hussein has missed his last opportunity to
disarm," he said.
Grossman, who is under secretary for political affairs, declined to
predict whether the resolution would be adopted, saying only that
"we're in a stage now where people are thinking about their positions,
and we're making our case. We'll see what happens when the vote comes
and people have to put their hands up."
Asked about the overwhelming public opinion in many countries against
military action to disarm Iraq, Grossman said, "We are not in favor of
war. We are in favor of the peaceful disarmament of Saddam Hussein. We
believe the only way that will occur is if Saddam Hussein is
surrounded by military force."
He stressed that there are international weapons inspectors in Iraq
right now only because the U.N. Security Council unanimously adopted
Resolution 1441, which demanded that Iraq disarm.
"From our perspective, the next bit of logic is that if you had a
military coalition which was prepared to enforce 1441, Saddam Hussein
would disarm, and would disarm peacefully, and there would be no war."
Following is the State Department transcript of the interview:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of State
Washington, D.C.
INTERVIEW BY DUTCH TV
MARC GROSSMAN, UNDER SECRETARY FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS
Washington, D.C.
March 3, 2003
(11:15 a.m. EDT)
QUESTION: First of all, thank you very much for having us.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: My pleasure. Thank you.
QUESTION: What will be, in your view, the chance of having a second UN
resolution adopted?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: I think the chance of having a second
resolution adopted is very good. We're working hard to see if that
resolution can be adopted. The President, Secretary Powell, lots of
others of us are trying to make the case around the world that a
second resolution would be a good thing, and we think it's time for
the United Nations to make a declaration about where things stand on
UN Security Council Resolution 1441. As you know, we've put forward a
resolution that's simple, it's clear, it simply states the fact, which
is that Saddam Hussein has missed his last opportunity to disarm.
QUESTION: Which countries do you expect to be in favor of the
resolution? Of course the Brits and a few others, but a few countries
-- I mean, doubtful about whether to support or not.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: We're in a stage now where people are
thinking about their positions, and we're making our case. We'll see
what happens when the vote comes and people have to put their hands
up. I wouldn't speculate in advance of that.
QUESTION: Do you have to dole lots more money to get them?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: (Laughter.) Well, we're not in the business
of buying votes. But we're trying to make the very best case we can.
Our Assistant Secretary for African Affairs was in Africa last week
visiting with people. Secretary Powell's been on the telephone. This
is not a matter of money. This is a matter of countries that are on
the Security Council, both the permanent members and the elected
members, realizing they have a global responsibility. So this isn't
just about this country or that country. It's about the threat to the
world.
QUESTION: James Baker, former Secretary of State, said about trying to
get people over to the U.S. position in 1990, and he said it was a
terrible thing to do, I mean, going around and actually doling out
money and trade favors and everything.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: We do the very best we can. Politics are
politics. And every country is trying to do the best for its own
country, its own people. That's what international relations are all
about. And it seems to me odd that countries, for example in the
Netherlands or in the United States or in any democratic country where
people are working to bring a coalition together, find this strange.
They're working on votes in parliament, they're working on votes in
our Congress, people are doing politics. And the fact that we would do
so in the United Nations Security Council, it seems to me shouldn't
surprise anybody.
QUESTION: Optimistic man.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: I'm always an optimistic person. We're
working hard on this, and my example to you is, would you have
believed on the 12th of September of last year that we would have
passed UN Security Council Resolution 1441 15 to nothing? Nobody would
have believed it, but through the extraordinary efforts of our
President and Secretary Powell and others, that's what happened.
[Editor's note: President Bush addressed the United Nations General
Assembly on the Iraqi threat on September 12, 2002. The UN Security
Council passed Resolution 1441 on the disarmament of Iraq on November
8, 2002.]
QUESTION: What do you make of the situation in Turkey with, I mean, we
know the vote in parliament over there. But 90 percent of the Turks
are very much against this war. What do you make of it?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: Well, Turkey's a democracy. The Turkish
parliament acted over the weekend in a way that they thought was best
for Turkey. We had made a proposition to Turkey that the Turkish
Government had accepted, but it didn't make it through parliament. So
now the Turkish Government has some decisions to make, we have some
decisions to make, and we'll go from there.
We're disappointed, but we're not in a panic here over this. Turkey
has a right to make its own decisions. Our argument to Turks and an
argument that I would make again if I had the chance, is that if there
was a disarmed Iraq, who's most likely to benefit from that? Well,
it'd seem to me the people who are closest to Iraq. And if there was
an Iraq someday that was multiethnic and democratic, no weapons of
mass destruction, at peace with its neighbors, who's the beneficiary
of that? I think Turks would be the beneficiary of that. But as I say,
Turkey's a democracy and they can make their own decisions.
QUESTION: Do you expect a favorable vote eventually?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: I don't know the answer to that, sir. That's
a question that belongs to the Turkish government and the Turkish
parliament. I don't even know if I'd expect them to go back and try
again. But as I say, that's up to them, not up to me.
QUESTION: Let's talk about Europe for a second. If you look at the
number of governments in favor, more or less, of the U.S. point of
view, you'll find some 16 European governments saying, we're basically
on the U.S. side, two against. If you look at public opinion, 78, 80,
75, 90 percent sometimes, against this war. Why are so many Europeans
not convinced?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: I don't know how to answer the question for
Europeans. People in Europe really are focused, I think, on the great
adventure that they are embarked on in terms of the European Union. I
believe, perhaps, people haven't made the case --
QUESTION: That's not on their minds, the European Union.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: Oh, I don't know, I mean, when you have
people who are thinking about, as Valery Giscard d'Estaing is, about a
new structure for Europe, where people have given up their currency,
where you talk about ESDI, ESDP, which I know is something that the
Netherlands is very much in favor of, those are very profound
questions for Europeans. So it doesn't surprise me that Europeans are
very much focused on their internal politics and what the future of
their experiment is, and I respect that.
QUESTION: They're scared to death about a war. If you look at
demonstrations in Europe -- I saw a sign, "Bush is Hitler." I saw U.S.
flags with swastikas in it. Of course, that's not the general opinion
in Europe, but it's there. That's on their mind. And I didn't see a
sign, "Let's unify Europe first."
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: It's a shame if that is the opinion in
Europe. I would agree with you it's not the prevailing opinion in
Europe. But what we are asking people to do is to consider the fact
that although September 11th happened in New York and in Washington,
DC and in Pennsylvania, an attack from terrorists and worse, an attack
from terrorists who are linked up with weapons of mass destruction --
biological weapons, chemical weapons -- could happen anywhere in
Europe. It could happen in the Netherlands. It could happen in France.
It could happen anywhere in the world. And so, the time has come now
to make a stand against this kind of connection between weapons of
mass destruction and terrorism. And we think Iraq is a place to make
that stand first.
Second, there are so many unanswered questions. And I think Europeans
ought to consider them. And they're not unanswered questions just for
the United States. Where is all the botulinum toxin? Where is all the
VX? I see over the weekend now, the Iraqis have started to destroy
missiles, and everyone's hailing this as a great success. They
shouldn't have had these missiles in the first place. And where have
they been for 11 years, and what else is out there? And so these, I
think, are things that Europeans ought to consider. I hope they will.
When you say --
QUESTION: But they say, where is the imminent threat? Where is the
real danger right now? Of course we have to get rid of this brutal
dictator in Iraq, I mean, everybody agrees eventually. The split is
about strategy. Why now, why now a war. I mean, why should my mom and
sisters and brother back home be scared and say, yes, we're in favor
of a war, because yes, there's the real, imminent danger?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: Ah, well let's be clear here. No one is in
favor of a war. The United States is not in favor of war. President
Bush is not in favor of war. The Secretary of State is not in favor of
war. What we have been arguing since the introduction of UN Security
Council Resolution 1441, and indeed, since President Bush made his
statement on the 12th of September is what? A credible international
unified opinion will make Saddam Hussein disarm peacefully. And that's
the whole point of 1441. Why did we spend seven weeks negotiating
1441?
And I ask you this, and I would ask your viewers this in the
Netherlands: why are there inspectors in Iraq today? The reason there
are inspectors in Iraq today is because the UN voted 15 to nothing for
1441. I ask you, what's the next bit of logic? From our perspective,
the next bit of logic is that if you had a military coalition which
was prepared to enforce 1441, Saddam Hussein would disarm, and would
disarm peacefully, and there would be no war.
So I say with all due respect, that it is to those countries and to
those people who are today arguing that there should never ever be
force used, that they are making war much more likely. Our logic was,
15 to nothing brought you inspectors. A military coalition brings you
peaceful disarmament. So --
QUESTION: But again --
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: No, I want to be clear. We are not in favor
of war. We are in favor of the peaceful disarmament of Saddam Hussein.
We believe the only way that will occur is if Saddam Hussein is
surrounded by military force. And I would say, if you look at the
statistics today, what have we got? 20 countries have offered us
basing and overflight rights. 16 countries have offered us other kinds
of access and facilities. 17 countries have offered us help with
actual military combat forces on the ground. The Netherlands, for
example, has decided to move Patriot batteries to Turkey. That's not
all for war. It's for focusing Saddam Hussein's mind on his job, which
is to meet the obligation in 1441.
QUESTION: Last question.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: Please.
QUESTION: This is a country of bumper stickers. My absolute favorite
is the one that says, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." Does that
sum up the U.S. position right now?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: For the United States or for everyone else?
QUESTION: The U.S. and for President Bush.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: No, I don't think so at all. What we are,
what we have been saying since the 12th of September is, let's do this
multilaterally, let's do this peacefully, let's do this in a way that
supports the United Nations and gets Saddam Hussein to disarm. I mean
--
QUESTION: But he's not.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: -- no, but if you say to me, what's the
great threat today? I answer you, the great threat today is the nexus
between weapons of mass destruction and terrorism. But I'll tell you
what I think the other great threat today is. The other great threat
today is to the United Nations and to the United Nations Security
Council. And I know that people in the Netherlands believe deeply in
the United Nations and believe deeply in the international rule of
law. Well, Saddam Hussein was told in Resolution 687 in 1991 to
disarm. And if you believe in the rule of law, then it's been what,
4,230 days since that law was imposed upon him, and where are we?
We're nowhere. And so I think if you believe in the rule of law, if
you believe in the United Nations, if you believe in disarmament, and
if you believe in doing it peacefully, then the answer to that
question right now is a strong military coalition to focus his
attention on his responsibility.
QUESTION: And sometimes we not can be in a position of lead, follow,
or get out of the way?
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: Well, that's your headline. You gave that to
me, I gave you my answer.
QUESTION: Okay, thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Thanks a
lot.
UNDER SECRETARY GROSSMAN: Thank you. 
Released on March 5, 2003
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)