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24 February 2003

Wolfowitz Says U.S. Would Seek to Liberate, Not Occupy, Iraq

(Deputy defense secretary addresses Iraqi-Americans in Michigan)
(8240)
Reaching out to the Iraqi-American community in Dearborn, Michigan
February 23, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz made the case
for replacing the current Iraqi regime with one that embraces
democratic norms.
Wolfowitz, a former U.S. ambassador to the Muslim country of
Indonesia, began his presentation in Arabic and peppered his remarks
with references to the Koran. He outlined five guiding principles
under which he said the United States would undertake military action
against Iraq.
The first principle, he said, is that "the United States seeks to
liberate Iraq, not to occupy Iraq."
Next, he said, Iraq must be "disarmed of all weapons of mass terror,
weapons production capabilities and the means to deliver such
weapons." Wolfowitz called this "a complex and dangerous task for
which detailed planning is already under way."
Third, he said, "we must eliminate Iraq's terrorist infrastructure."
Next, Iraq must be preserved "as a unified state with its territorial
integrity intact," Wolfowitz said.
And last, with U.S. coalition partners "we must help the Iraqi people
begin the process of economic and political reconstruction," he said.
Following is the transcript of Wolfowitz's remarks:
(begin transcript)
Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz
Iraqi Forum for Democracy
Dearborn, Michigan
23 February 2003
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: Thank you very much. Thank you [Ahmad],
thank you [Maha]. Ladies and gentlemen, permit me to greet you as I
learned to greet people when I was the American Ambassador to
Indonesia some 15 years ago, [in Arabic]. [Applause]
I'd like to thank you all for joining us here today. I know it's a
snowy and difficult day here in the Detroit area. We experienced
something like it in Washington not long ago.
When I was Ambassador to Indonesia someone told me a little story
about the problems of cross-cultural communication between Americans
and Asians. It was a story about an American consultant who was once
invited to give a speech in Japan. Naturally he consulted a consultant
about his speech and the consultant gave him this advice. He said you
have to understand that the Japanese like you to put on a great show
of humility. So begin your speech by saying that you're really not
qualified to be speaking here, you're going to make mistakes, and you
want to apologize in advance for any mistakes you make.
The speaker duly followed this advice and began his speech as he was
advised, but to his shock and dismay, the audience erupted into
uproarious laughter. He couldn't understand what had happened but he
struggled through the end of his speech and finally got off the stage.
The head of the Japanese company that invited him hurried up and said.
We are so sorry, sir. You have to understand. We were briefing our
employees before your speech and we told them, Americans always start
their speeches with a joke. So whatever he says, you have to laugh.
[Laughter]
Well it is standard for Americans to open remarks with a joke and I
guess I've just done so but what brings us here together today is no
joking matter. We're here to talk about deadly serious business. I
brought some very serious people with me who will be available
afterwards to help explain further what we can do together to face the
tasks ahead and let me just introduce them.
There's Lieutenant General Michael DeLong. [Applause] He is the Deputy
to General Franks. He's the Deputy Combatant Commander of the U.S.
Central Command responsible for operations around the Arabian
Peninsula and in a vast part of the world.
Dr. David Chu. [Applause] David is the Under Secretary of Defense for
Personnel and Readiness and the chief personnel officer of the
Department of Defense.
And Dr. William Lutti, [Applause]. Bill is the Deputy Assistant
Secretary of Defense for Near East and South Asia, which makes him the
principal official in the Office of the Secretary of Defense
responsible for the Persian Gulf and the surrounding area.
Critical decisions about the future of Iraq lie ahead of us. I've come
here today not just to speak to you but just as important, to hear
from you. You Americans with roots in Iraq and some more recent
immigrants who are not yet citizens.
You have a stake in Iraq's future. And because you know firsthand the
truth of Saddam Hussein's regime it is important that we and the rest
of the world hear from you. I'm very pleased that so many of our
national media are here in fact to give you an opportunity to speak to
your fellow Americans.
President Bush is clearly in the final stages of determining whether
there can be a peaceful solution to the threat posed by Saddam Hussein
or whether the use of force will be necessary. The President confronts
some difficult decisions in the coming days and weeks and I know you
all join me in praying for him and for his continued courage in
confronting the serious threat posed by a dictator who possesses
weapons of mass terror and who supports terrorists. [Applause]
But while there are decisions now that only President Bush can decide
it is not too early for the rest of us to be thinking about how to
build a just and peaceful and democracy Iraq after Saddam Hussein is
gone. In fact we in the Administration have already begun doing so and
if you have not had the chance yet I encourage you to read the speech
that Steven Hadley, the President's Deputy National Security Advisor,
delivered last week in New York City.
As I said, I've come here to listen to you, not just to speak to you,
but let me start our discussion by focusing briefly on five subjects.
First, what are the principles that should shape the future of a
post-Saddam Iraq? Principles that can be broadly agreed upon by the
Iraqi people themselves, by the United States, and by the broader
international coalition?
Second, what are some of the key issues that the Iraqi people will
face in the aftermath of Saddam Hussein's regime? And how can the
international community assist Iraqis to answer those questions which
Iraqis must answer for themselves?
Third, what kinds of assistance should the international community be
prepared to provide to meet the immediate needs of the Iraqi people?
Fourth, perhaps most important, can democracy take root in Iraq and
how will it do so?
And fifth, and the reason why I brought such a distinguished and
important group with me today, we want to talk with you in this open
forum and then we'll be available afterwards to talk in more detail,
about how Iraqi-American citizens of Iraqis who have recently
immigrated to the United States can assist the U.S. government and the
coalition in the aftermath of a forcible removal of the Saddam Hussein
regime should it come to that.
Let me first briefly talk about those principles. In the speech I
spoke of earlier, Steve Hadley as I said, the President's Deputy
National Security Advisor said, and I'm quoting now, "The goal which
we are confident we share with Iraq's people is an Iraq that is whole,
free, and at peace with itself and its neighbors; an Iraq that is
moving toward democracy in which all religions and ethnic communities
have a voice and in which individual rights are protected regardless
of gender, religion or ethnicity; and," he concluded, "an Iraq that
adheres to the rule of law at home and lives up to its international
obligations."
Let me summarize briefly the principles that the U.S. government is
applying in thinking about a post-Saddam Iraq and you can read them in
more detail in Mr. Hadley's speech.
They are first, and this is really the overarching principle, the
United States seeks to liberate Iraq, not to occupy Iraq. [Applause]
Second, Iraq must be disarmed of all weapons of mass terror, weapons
production capabilities and the means to deliver such weapons. This is
a complex and dangerous task for which detailed planning is already
underway.
Third, we must eliminate Iraq's terrorist infrastructure. [Applause]
Fourth, Iraq must be preserved as unified state with its territorial
integrity intact. [Applause]
And fifth, with our coalition partners we must help the Iraqi people
begin the process of economic and political reconstruction.
Those are principles that define American policy, that define the
principles on which the coalition will operate, and if I can judge
from the reaction of this audience it seems to me they are principles
that we here agree on.
But there are other issues that really have to be answered by Iraqis,
that cannot be answered by others. In moving toward that goal Iraqis
themselves must answer such questions, and this is just a partial
list. About democratic institutions. And keep in mind that democratic
institutions are not just about free elections but about securing
individual freedom and equal justice under law. But Iraqis need to
answer the question what institutions are best suited to secure
freedom and democracy in the unique circumstances of Iraq?
A second important set of issues recognizing that democratic
institutions cannot come into being overnight is to figure out how
quickly the transition to democratic government should take place and
in what stages.
A third important question, how can Iraqis ensure the unity and
territorial integrity of Iraq while providing the appropriate level of
self-government? For those of you who know American history, you know
that this was a challenge our country faced more than 200 years ago.
The answers we framed have worked well for us but Iraqis need answers
that are suited for Iraqi conditions.
Fourth, and quite importantly I think, how do you strike a balance
between the need to account for past injustices and the need to avoid
creating new animosities and new sources of conflict?
The answers to these questions are not for America nor for the
international community to dictate. Iraqis need to answer them for
themselves.
A Muslim friend of mine pointed me to [sura] 13, verse 11 of the Koran
where it says, "Surely God has not changed the condition of a people
until they change their own condition." [Applause]
Today I hope you will share your thoughts with us and with the
American people who are listening to us today about these important
subjects.
Third, what the international community must be prepared to do. While
Iraqis must confront many issues and challenges, they will not be
alone. The international community must be prepared to do its share to
help Iraq in the process of liberating the Iraqi people and setting
them immediately on the road to recovery.
Should military force become necessary to liberate Iraq from Saddam
Hussein, the United States and its coalition partners will make every
effort to avoid hurting non-combatants and to spare infrastructure
that free Iraqis will need to rebuild their nation. Our concern for
the safety of Iraq's people will not begin on the day hostilities end,
but on day one.
The United States and the international community will work to ensure
the rapid flow of humanitarian relief and the rapid start of economic
reconstruction efforts. Indeed, we've already begun discussing with
U.N. agencies, with non-governmental organizations, and with other
governments and there are plans and even initial deployments of relief
supplies underway. [Applause]
When Saddam Hussein and his regime are nothing more than a horrible
memory, the United States will remain committed to helping the Iraqi
people establish a free, prosperous and peaceful Iraq that can serve
as a beacon for the entire region. [Applause]
We know that to arrive at these goals there is no greater engine than
the industrious and well-educated people of Iraq themselves. Along
with our coalition partners we would help the Iraqis begin the process
of economic and political reconstruction. We would assist the people
of Iraq in putting their country on a path towards prosperity and
freedom.
If the President decides it is necessary to use force let me assure
you once again that the United States will be committed to liberating
the people of Iraq, not becoming an occupation force. [Applause]
And as Secretary Rumsfeld elaborated further, and I'm now quoting from
my boss, "If the United States were to lead an international coalition
in Iraq, and let there be no doubt it would be a very large one, it
would be guided by two commitments," the Secretary said. "These two
commitments are that we would stay as long as necessary and leave as
soon as possible." [Applause]
Fourth, let me raise the issue of democracy and whether democracy is
possible in Iraq. There are some who ask that question, is democracy
possible in Iraq and the answer is no. They doubt that democracy could
ever take root anywhere in the Arab world. I think they're wrong and
let me give you my response, but when you get a chance I hope you'll
give us yours.
First, look to the people of Northern Iraq. Beyond the reach of Saddam
Hussein and his regime for more than a decade they have shown a
remarkable ability to manage longstanding differences and to develop
relatively free and prospering societies, even though they labor under
the same economic sanctions that is supposed to cause so much misery
in the rest of the country and even though they live in constant
threat from Saddam Hussein. [Applause]
If you're not convinced by that then look to the Iraqi-Americans here
today and throughout this country, and other Arab-Americans, and see
how quickly they have adapted to a democratic system.
But finally I say to these doubters, look at the Iraqi people's long
yearning for representative government and look at their long
suffering under one of the most oppressive dictatorships the world has
known. Perhaps more than any other people, they have been inoculated
against tyranny.
As you know, the values of freedom and democracy are not just Western
values or European values, they are Muslim and Asian values as well.
Indeed, they are universal values. They are the bridge that span
civilizations.
That's my answer to the critics, but in the end you can answer the
question much better than I can -- Is Iraq capable of democracy.
[Applause]
Well, I think we have your simple answer and we can hear more soon.
Finally, I'd like to talk briefly about how you can help -- a major
reason why we've come here today and why I brought General Long and
Secretary Chu and Dr. [Lutti].
As Iraqi-Americans or as recent immigrants you have a great stake in
the outcome in Iraq. Many of you here today know the cruelties of the
current Ba'thist regime firsthand or through your families. It is
important that other Americans and indeed the entire world also
understand the horror of this regime.
As I've said many times, Saddam Hussein's regime is one that not only
supports the use of terror against its neighbors and against the
United States, but against its own people as well. Your personal
experiences underscore why liberation is needed and why it is a just
and noble and moral cause.
We know that you want to be part of this cause and there is an urgent
need for your talents.
For those of you who would like to work with the U.S. government and
with our coalition partners in the reconstruction of a post-Saddam
Iraq and in assisting Iraqis in the building of free institutions
there are a number of ways you can help. Let me briefly outline how,
and the people with me later will be able to describe them in more
detail.
First, you can help the U.S. military as civilians. We are
establishing a program through which Iraqi-Americans could be hired as
temporary civilian employees or in some cases independent contractors
of the U.S. government.
We're also making arrangements for Iraqi-Americans and others to be
employed by contractors to serve in areas such as translation and
other specialized functions. I might add that I know from my own
experience not only is it invaluable to have people who are truly
bilingual, but even more valuable to have people who are truly
bi-cultural and to understand Americans and American culture is more
than just understanding English. You can bring that to an important
task.
Second, you can join the United States military and put on that proud
uniform. We're launching a separate initiative to encourage
Iraqi-Americans to join the U.S. military as part of the Individual
Ready Reserve. That's something that Dr. Chu can tell you more about
after our discussion. In this program you can serve as an integrated
part of the U.S. military. This would take advantage of your
professional skills in a wide variety of areas while also capitalizing
on your understanding of local languages and culture as well as
American culture and language.
Third, you can join the Free Iraqi Force. Working closely with Iraqi
opposition groups we have launched a program to train free Iraqis to
support military operations should they become necessary inside Iraq.
If war becomes necessary, the Free Iraqi Force will be integrated with
U.S. forces to serve as guides, translators, and experts on civil
affairs. After a conflict the skills and local knowledge of these
forces will help to rebuild Iraq.
Training has already begun at a military base in Hungary. The U.S.
military members working with those recruits have praised their
courage and their dedication. This force is open to Iraqis around the
world, not just those in the United States. [Applause]
Fourth, you can help to improve public understanding by telling your
story in Iraq, in America, and around the world. You can help the
American people understand what the stakes are here and you can start
this afternoon.
Let me conclude if I might by quoting from a speech that I quoted from
not long ago in New York by a man probably known to many of you,
[Barham Asali], a very brave and distinguished Iraqi Kurdish leader
who spoke recently about the dream of the Iraqi people. He said, and I
quote, "In my office in Sulimaniyah I meet almost every day some
traveler who has come from Baghdad or other parts of Iraq. Without
exception they tell me of the continuing suffering inflicted by the
Iraqi regime and the fearful hope secretly nurtured by so many
enslaved Iraqis for a free life, for a country where they can think
without fear, and speak without retribution." [Applause]
Since the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 the policy of the United States
government is that Saddam Hussein and his regime must go. [Applause]
I think we know how you feel!
Today in President Bush we have a President who is serious about that
policy, serious about seeing the current regime out of Baghdad and out
of the lives of the Iraqi people who have been made to suffer so much
for so long.
The President understands Iraq's present enslavement by fear and he
has spoken many times about the suffering inflicted on a population by
a man he calls a student of Stalin. The President understands the hope
of the Iraqi people and your hope.
You, Iraqi-Americans, can help the rest of America and the world
understand the suffering of the Iraqi people and most of all help us
understand the unrelenting fervor of a people's hope for a future of
freedom and justice.
We may some day look back on this moment in history as the time when
the world defined itself for the 21st Century. Not in terms of
geography or race or religion or culture or language, but in terms of
values -- the universal values of freedom and democracy. We will
remember proudly the part that you played in defining this moment.
Thank you very much. [In Arabic]
[Applause]
Moderator: Okay ladies and gentlemen, I would like us to begin the
next component of our stay today.
I want to especially thank Secretary Wolfowitz for a wonderful,
comforting, reassuring remarks and comments. I think it touched on a
lot of our fears and concerns.
I want to first begin by laying the ground rules and I'm going to
speak in Arabic right now.
[In Arabic]
There won't be any questions taken or accepted from the media because
of the short time. And while you are getting ready --
[In Arabic]
I'm going to begin and ask the first question as the moderator, taking
the prerogative of that.
Secretary Wolfowitz, what you said was absolutely reassuring to us.
Iraqis have been bitten previously and have trusted and things have
not been delivered to them.
Considering the history of the United States government and its policy
in the area of supporting dictatorships, considering the support of
the United States government to Saddam Hussein in the '80s,
considering the turning of the United States' backs to the Iraqi
people in their uprising and the resultant slaughter of hundreds of
thousands of Iraqis, considering the United States turned its face
when the Kurds were sprayed with chemical weapons, considering the
unevenhandedness and the dealing of the United States with the
Palestinian-Israeli conflict, why should we here, with all due
respect, why should the people outside in Iraq trust or believe what
you just said or what the United States government says? [Applause]
Deputy Secretary  Wolfowitz: Give me a minute to think. [Laughter]
[Maha] warned me that she was going to give me the hardest question
first, but she didn't say it would be quite that hard.
Let me answer it this way. We could debate a lot about history and I
could disagree with some of the things you say; I might agree with
some of them. I would say you didn't point out some very important
things that we have done which I think bear on the current situation.
Remember, it was the United States and United States blood and courage
that liberated the people of Kuwait. It was the United States military
that saved the people of Somalia from starvation. It was the United
States military that ended ethnic conflict in Bosnia. It was the
United States military and a coalition that ended ethnic cleansing in
Kosovo. It is the United States military that led to the liberation of
Northern Iraq and has protected it since. And it was the United States
military and other countries and our President and a lot of other
people, but above all the courage of American soldiers, sailors,
airmen and marines that liberated Afghanistan. And that's by my count,
six times that we've come to the aid of Muslim populations. The Iraqis
will be the seventh. [Applause]
But let me say one other thing because I know there's a lot of history
and some of it is personal and bitter. This is a time not to look to
the past but to look to the future. This is a time not to talk about
our differences but to pull together.
We have a President of enormous courage who says what he means and
means what he says and his word you can count on. We have one of the
most powerful military forces ever assembled ready if the President
decides they're needed to do what has to be done. And if we commit
those forces we're not going to commit them for anything less than a
free and democratic Iraq. [Applause]
Question: My name is [inaudible]. I used to be a [inaudible] back in
Iraq, but now I am working [inaudible] to help refugees now. You come
up to [inaudible].
The point that you mentioned that some people think it's hard to have
a democratic society in Iraq and the area. I am going to give you a
short brief about my personal experience here.
I came here in 1992 from [inaudible] refugee after I participated in
the uprising in 1991 [inaudible] with my other people, most of them
here, [inaudible]. The majority of them here are American citizens.
I came here in 1992 and I was in the first occupation, the present
job. I also went as a personal observer in the elections. I was with
some group for some of the candidates --
Moderator: Can you please make it brief?
Question: I want to assure you and all other people around the world
that we suffered so much and we are willing to work towards democracy
as we are -- Most of us want to work in two phases. The liberation
phase and the rebuilding phase. So please, please take it seriously,
and we want it fast. Fast, as fast as you can. Thank you. Liberate
Iraqi people please. [Applause]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: Let me just ask you, did you learn English
before you came here or did you learn it here?
Question: I used to be an interpreter.
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: So you have an unfair disadvantage, but
you obviously learned a great deal about our country and about our
democratic system and that I believe is something that is very
important that Iraqi-Americans and Iraqi immigrants who have seen a
real democracy in action can help teach other Iraqis how to make
democracy work. It's not a simple system, as you know. It may look
simple on the surface, but real democracy is about something more than
just holding elections. We've been at it more than 200 years and we're
a long way from perfect, but we've learned a lot. Obviously you've
learned a lot being here and you can take some of those lessons back.
Question: Mr. Deputy Secretary I would like to thank you for taking
time in coming to meet with our community. My name is Imam Fasuni. I
am one of the religious leaders in this community. I was born in Iraq
originally and I have been living in exile for over 30-some years. And
almost half of my family, my extended family has been massacred by
Saddam Hussein. Over 15 members of my family including my grandfather
who we are not sure what happened to him. He was 80 years when he was
arrested by Saddam Hussein some 23 years ago.
It is not only about my family. It is about all the people that you
see here. They have victims, people who were killed, massacred by
Saddam Hussein.
I was probably one of the first people who met President Bush even
before he became a President when he was campaigning in the
presidential campaign. I brought to his attention the necessity for
him to remove Saddam Hussein once he gets power. I said to him that
when your father liberated Kuwait he didn't finish the job. He should
have went further and removed Saddam from power. He smiled and he
indicated that he would finish the job. [Applause]
I hope today that he will be able to finish that job.
The last time I met with him it was in November, last November in the
White House. I indicated that he should not bow to any pressure by the
international society for any reason to leave Saddam alone. Saddam is
cancer and he has to be removed. [Applause]
And if we don't do it today we may do it in five years or ten years
from now. We will deal with him again.
So I think that we are all here relieved to hear your assurance that
our troops and our government is about to remove Saddam from power and
there will be democracy in Iraq.
My question to you is, Mr. Deputy Secretary, there have been reports
in Washington Times and New York Times about America will be
installing another general, American general, to rule Iraq. And there
have been other reports that there would be Iraqi military commander
who might be ruling Iraq.
My question to you, what is your comment to those reports? You just
assured us that there would be democracy. And what are your comments
about those reports who spoke about another dictator ruling Iraq?
I would like to assure you that all these people here, they won't be
willing to see another Saddam replacing this Saddam or another
dictator replacing a dictator. [Applause]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: My first response would be don't believe
everything you read in the newspapers. [Laughter] But it is not a
joking matter, I understand.
It is absolutely clear, particularly I think to the President but to
all of us, that if we invest the kind of resources and risk of
American lives to liberate Iraq it's not going to be handed over to
some junior Saddam Hussein. It has to be for the goal of a democracy.
The President's been clear about that. All of the people who work for
him are clear about that.
The only issue is how do you work through stages of those things that
are going to have to be done initially and early and quickly and
probably have to be done by the U.S. military. Such things as putting
out fires if Saddam burns the oilfields, or repairing critical
civilian infrastructure, although as I said in my remarks we're trying
very hard to make sure that nothing is damaged that doesn't have to be
damaged. But there's no question, as Secretary Rumsfeld said, we don't
want to stay there any longer than we have to. And the key to getting
us out quickly is for Iraqis to come together quickly in a spirit of
unity and harmony and understanding the importance of having a
democratic country. That's what we're going to wait for. We'll be
there as long as it takes but we don't want to be there a minute
longer than that.
Question: [Through Interpreter] His name is [inaudible]. You're an
Iraqi poet and a journalist. I'm not different than lots of people
that are here. I have been oppressed and hurt by Saddam and I have a
brother who has been executed. We want to thank you for your support
of the Iraqi cause.
Saddam Hussein is a coward and when the time comes he may actually
leave when things are really hot. So the point here is if Saddam
leaves peacefully, so to speak, willingly, what would be the position
of the United States and will the United States actually enter into
Iraq?
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: A very good question. When we say that the
President hasn't yet decided on the use of force there is a small
chance that this might be resolved peacefully. My own feeling is it's
a very very small chance that Saddam would actually comply with the
resolutions of the United Nations. There's a slightly greater chance
that he might do what this gentleman suggested.
If that happens, it will be a good thing because it will avoid a war
with all the terrible consequences of a war. But what it has to lead
to then is the construction of a legitimate, free, democratic
government that the Iraqi people deserve. [Applause]
Question: [Through Interpreter] Thank you for coming here. He is
talking, and the name of his movement, the Liberal Iraqis.
There are doubts among Iraqis inside and outside Iraq. [Inaudible] the
states will let one of the second-line members of the Ba'th party who
governed Iraq after [inaudible].
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: I'll repeat what I said. We're not
interested in replacing one dictator with another dictator. [Applause]
Question: [Through Interpreter] This is a gentleman who's family was
killed all by Saddam and he has the pictures of his family here. What
he's saying, he's lost his family but all his family are the people
who are here and the people in Iraq. [Applause]
He is saying that we don't want the 1991 to be repeated. What we want
is to make sure that President Bush and yourself to help the Iraqi
people liberate themselves into a future that is prosperous and
democratic. [Applause]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: If I could just say something, you
mentioned you lost 15 of your family, you lost six of your family, I
hear people say oh, we know Saddam Hussein is a bad guy, but... And
then comes we shouldn't really do anything about it. We can't take
care of every dictator in the world, we can't this, we can't that.
People who say that really don't understand that Saddam Hussein is
more than just a bad guy, he's one of the most evil leaders that has
ruled in the last 100 years. [Applause]
You may want to say a little bit to the American people because, in
fact you probably don't because they're so terrible. But I've had the
experience of showing people videos or telling them what happened and
people who said they thought they knew, they couldn't believe those
stories. They're just so terrible.
Question: My name is Victor [inaudible].
Do you have any plans to protect the civilians in Iraq from Saddam
Hussein? That's the first question.
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: I think you mean if it comes to a
conflict.
Question: Right. Protecting them in general and from Saddam.
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: We will do what we can but I think the
most important thing is for everybody who works under him to
understand that if they carry out any more of his illegal orders, if
they use weapons of mass destruction, if they destroy the Iraqi
oilfields, if they kill more civilians, they've sealed their own
personal fate.
I doubt that there are too many people left in Iraq who want to be the
last person to die for Saddam Hussein. If we have to use force, Saddam
Hussein will go and the people who carry out his terrible orders in
the last minute will suffer for doing so.
Question: [Through Interpreter] He is a former [inaudible], he used to
be a parliament member for two terms. After the Intifada he left with
his tribe to Saudi Arabia and then they came here. He participated in
his tribe in the Intifada and he was kicked out of the family for
standing against Saddam and they live here with 30 other families. His
tribe, just like other tribes, was massacred in Southern Iraq.
He wants us all for not only to tell you about the tragedy and the
crimes that Saddam committed against Iraqi people but also he wanted
to tell all the media about what's happened, and especially the Arabic
media who are supporting Saddam and they don't show the real picture
of the suffering of the Iraqi people.
As examples, the condition of the Article 200 of the Iraqi law saying
that any deserter of [inaudible] faces execution.
He says the regime forced Iraqi people to join [inaudible] by law, and
also he has a plan, a plan called Ba'thification of every Iraqi.
Also there is very inhuman law that punish every army deserter [by]
cutting off his ear and tattoo his nose.
There is another law that every wife should divorce her husband if he
is against the government or he desert the army.
He says the Iraqi people in the two wars we have lost 1.5 million in
the Iranian war and then about half million in the Kuwait war. And
half a million disabled.
There are mass graves in many areas of Iraq and there are people here,
they know where are these mass graves.
Question: My name is Abdul [inaudible]. I am engineer working with one
company in Detroit, Michigan.
My question is in the recent days we see that there is a lot of
negotiations going out with Turkey regarding the way that Turkey will
accept the U.S. troops here to start flowing the north of Iraq in
event of an invasion. I don't know since we have the Kurd area there
accessible to the U.S. troops, why would they not use it instead of
using Turkey? And the U.S. already has an agreement with Turkey to use
the Incirlik air base, so you don't need any other, I think, any other
agreement with Turkey for that.
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: I think I'd just say it's a complicated
question. What we're hoping to get from Turkey and I think we may be
close to getting it is the ability to present Saddam Hussein with a
very strong military threat from all directions.
We believe that if we can literally surround him that if it comes to a
use of force it will be quicker, it will be less harmful for the Iraqi
people and for everyone in the region. It will also be good for
Turkey.
We can't use anything in Turkey, including the Incirlik base, without
the agreement of the Turkish government. It's an independent country
and we don't occupy it, we don't own it. We work with Turkey which has
been a very good ally for a long period of time.
Obviously Turkey has very big interests in what takes place in Iraq
and they're nervous, but we are telling Turkey a democratic Iraq which
will be unified and preserves its territorial integrity will be good
for a democratic Turkey. And you as Iraqis I think also need to
understand that you have a stake and we have a stake, a big stake, in
the success of a democratic Turkey which is one of the most successful
Muslim countries so far and whose success is important for all of us.
Question: [Through Turkey] I welcome you here. You are here in
Dearborn and next month we welcome you in Baghdad and Iraq.
I want to share one thing with you. Many of the people who say leave
Saddam and maybe there is something in the future. In every heart
here, in every person here, there is a scar on our hearts. But we
can't show the people in the world our scars on our hearts, but we can
show the scars on the face of this young guy. He was in that time in
1991 just one year. He was a child, and this is the father and his
uncle, they participated in the uprising. They went to Saudi Arabia,
and when the intelligence and the Iraqi army came to the house they
beat everybody. They ask about [Abbas], my friend, he worked with me
in the same company and about his brother. They couldn't find them.
They beat the father, his father, his mother and his wife. While they
are beating the family they hear the cry of the child and they say who
is the child? The wife said this is my child. They tart beating him
with their boots until the blood was all over and he had brain damage,
partly brain damage. He, with all his forces, he wants just to bring
him here and he managed just to bring him a year and a half.
His shape was, what he told me, the most terrifying things in his life
happened when he came from Saudi Arabia to America. The first thing he
did, he took the phone and talked to his wife and he said I want to
talk to my son and she started to cry and she told him he is not
talking, he is not talking. What happened? She told him, something
happen in 1991. I can't tell you. After that he find out what happened
to his son.
Just I want to show the brutality of our regime. Thank you.
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: How long has he been here?
Question: [Through Interpreter] He came to the United States in 2001,
June 15. [Inaudible]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: Is his health coming back?
Question: [Inaudible]
Question: [Through Interpreter] He is a tribal leader from Nassiriyah.
After the entrance of Iraqi army to Kuwait, after two months, I saw a
team of large trucks, military trucks, going in the direction of
desert. Two days later a gentleman came and talked to me and he told
me these 18 trucks were being taken to a [valley] very close to us. He
said each truck had 35 to 40 people of the 18 trucks and they brought
those people down in that valley, and then two helicopters came. They
landed and soldiers came out of the helicopter and start machine
gunning those people. There were shovels and they just bury them.
He said that guy, he was looking for some of his camels or whatever
when he saw that, what happened. He said he found one survivor from
those people, he was moving, and he brought him back and they took
care of him. That survivor was a [Turkoman] and he went back to
Northern Iraq later.
He said we took care of him and we give him medicine and care and then
he went back to the North. [Applause]
Question: My name is [Arani Jiahawi]. I called my family last night.
One of my children got captured by Saddam. They were visiting from
[inaudible] and with a thousand people.
My question is, should we wait and give Saddam more time to kill more
people? Or should we act and get rid of Saddam? That's my question.
[Applause]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: I think it's very clear from what the
President has said and everyone in his Administration has said that
time is running out very fast and I think you've given the reason why
it's not a good idea to wait very much longer.
There are many questions that I think I'd like to hear from you and I
think the American people would like to hear from you. One I'd like to
make ask if you can answer today, a gentleman here just mentioned that
he helped to rescue somebody who was a Kurd or a Turkoman, and I
assume that you, sir, are an Arab. We hear about Shia and Sunni and
Turkmen and Kurds and Caldians and so many different groups in Iraq
and then many so-called experts say well, there will be just
incredible ethnic conflict if Saddam Hussein goes.
Voice: Never. [Voices in Arabic]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: Say something about that because I believe
the gentleman who said never is right and certainly the idea that
we're going to prevent ethnic conflict by leaving Saddam Hussein in
power is nonsense. But it would be helpful to hear about that.
Question: My name is [inaudible] and I heard a question, if there was
an uprising when America comes in attack, what would the Americans do?
Would they support the uprising? The one against the government?
Saddam's regime? What would happen?
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: I think if I understood the question
obviously we will, if it comes necessary to use force to remove Saddam
we will obviously be supporting anybody who is in that cause.
I think it's also important to remember that we're now talking about
the enormous and possibly dangerous military operation and I think we
all need to think about the responsibility that sits now with our
President. I know many people here have asked what are you going to do
for us, and I understand the question. It's also important to be
thinking about what can you do, what will you do, to help our
President, to help our men and women in uniform if they have to use
force. We need to work together. We're on the same team. We have the
same goal. [Applause]
Question: [Through Interpreter] Somebody who wants to remain
anonymous. His question is, we have no doubt if Saddam Hussein came
forward to use biological and chemical weapons that he might use
against the Iraqi population under the threat and out of desperation.
What is the United States government strategy to protect or prevent
this?
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: That's a very good question, it's an
important question and I think it brings out the fact that if it
becomes necessary to use force it will be a moment of maximum danger.
The question points out the danger to the Iraqi people. There is also
a danger to the American men and women in our armed forces whose lives
will be at risk, including from chemical and biological weapons. It
will be a risk and a danger even to the people of the United States
because we don't know what use Saddam may have made of terrorists.
That's why our President is still trying to see, not in months but in
weeks, maybe less, if there is a peaceful way to resolve this
conflict. A peaceful way to get Saddam and his regime out of power and
to avoid a war.
But if it comes to a war, if it comes to a use of force, there are two
things that can help to prevent the kind of tragedy that the question
refers to, or other tragedies.
One is to have the largest possible coalition and to surround Saddam
with the strongest possible force. That's why, for example, we're
working so hard to cooperate with Turkey.
The second thing is to make it clear to anybody who carriers out
Saddam's last terrible orders that they will suffer very serious
consequences for doing so. We can't prevent everything from happening.
We can do what we can to minimize the risk.
Question: We are not against just Saddam. Against all his enemies
[inaudible]. [Applause]
Moderator: Thank you.
What I'm going to do is this. I'm going to let the Secretary choose
the two people he wishes to speak with.
[Multiple voices]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: Wait, wait, wait.
I really wish we could go on for four hours because there's a lot to
say. Be patient and let's think through, everybody is watching us now.
We want to show the American people that we can be patient, that we
can work together, okay?
I would like one person each to think about these two questions.
[Multiple voices]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: Just a minute. I'd like you to address the
question how will Iraqis work together after Saddam Hussein is gone
and how will you create democratic institutions in a country that
hasn't had them before?
Question: [Through Interpreter] What he is saying is that Iraq had
some democracy. Saddam came in and destroyed it.
Question: The people of Iraq are composed of all kinds of minorities
as you stated very eloquently. They have lived together in peace for
thousands of years. It's not new for the Iraqi people to work
together. What we need right now is actually the help of the U.S.
Administration in facilitating a smooth transition toward true
democracy.
The Iraqi organized political opposition is attempting to work
together. The problem is the demand that is being placed on it which
is to create a coalition, to work together to form a transition
government. It is a demand that is a bit too hard.
If I may recommend that the period of the transition be depoliticized,
to be formed by a group of Iraqis, not people coming from outside Iraq
to teach Iraqis how to form a democracy, but by Iraqis who are
dedicated during the transition period not to run for office after
they facilitate the transition but just to facilitate the transition
during a period as short as possible, and not to participate in
getting political position afterwards for themselves.
Moderator: So what you're suggesting is basically, so I can understand
what you're saying, that this process cannot be done by politicians,
but rather technocrats who would put in the foundation for a
democratic transition and then have the elections and the transition
afterwards. [Applause]
Question: Exactly.
The various political factions as well as the various ethnicities and
the religious factions inside Iraq work together, they are
intermarried to each other. My brother, I am a Shia and my brother is
married to a Sunni. My cousin is married to a Christian. My
grandfather was married to a Christian. [Applause]
So what is needed is a framework to allow us to have true
representation. That cannot be done by the politicians because the
politicians are going to work for their own political interests. What
we need is really to learn from the United States, from the European
countries, from the other democratic countries in the world how to
create a democracy that suits Iraq where representation is a true
representation rather than fake representation of the composition of
the Iraqi society. This is something that we as Iraqis need to put
together, not an American general. [Applause]
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz: I appreciate that. It sounds like very
good advice.
I'm going to have to be the villain here and say we have to stop the
questions because we want to make some time so that I can leave and
the press will leave and then you can hear from General DeLong and Dr.
Chu and Dr. Lutti and talk about things that you can actually do to
help our government help the coalition.
I look forward to meeting with you again here or maybe in a free Iraq.
Thank you very much. [Applause]
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)