Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)

DATE=2/13/03

TYPE=INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

TITLE=STUART-NATO

NUMBER=3-538

BYLINE=KENT KLEIN

DATELINE=WASHINGTON

INTERNET=

///// AVAILABLE IN DALET UNDER SOD/ENGLISH NEWS NOW INTERVIEWS IN THE FOLDER FOR TODAY OR YESTERDAY /////

HOST: NATO ambassadors have been trying to reach agreement on Turkey's request for military support in case of a possible war in Iraq. Germany, France, and Belgium have opposed a U-S-backed proposal to begin NATO planning to bolster Turkey's defenses. They say efforts to achieve a diplomatic solution to the Iraq crisis must take precedence over sending military equipment to Turkey, the only NATO country that borders Iraq.

Professor Doug Stuart is an expert on NATO. He tells V-O-A's Kent Klein he believes the rift between the United States and some of its allies in Western Europe could eventually change the nature of their trans-Atlantic relationships.

MR. STUART: Even Lord Robertson, NATO Secretary-General, has recognized publicly that this is a very serious issue. We are looking at a situation that is triggered, of course, by the Iraq problem, but that really is more fundamentally about a long-term change in the relationship between the United States and its European allies.

MR. KLEIN: So, do you foresee a solution to this any time soon?

MR. STUART: I am hopeful that we will have sophisticated diplomacy on both sides that will manage this. I think that it is well for us to remind ourselves that this so-called Article IV dispute, this dispute about the responsibilities of the separate allies under Article IV, the consultation clause of the NATO Treaty, really harks back to one of the most impressive aspects of NATO's history. For the last 50 years, the NATO alliance has used Article IV in a very sophisticated way, to engage in consultations on issues outside of the NATO-designated boundaries. The history of consultations on questions relating to Suez or the Vietnam War is really quite impressive.

But what has happened is, over time, Article IV has changed its function as NATO has become more and more of a globalized alliance, so that Article IV is becoming more politicized. And that is why this dispute is surfacing at this point, I believe.

MR. KLEIN: Now, the former NATO Secretary-General Javier Solana has said that he is confident that this split can be resolved. And he said that the rift is one of timing rather than substance. Do you agree with that?

MR. STUART: I think it is more structural than that. I think that the changes in the power relationship between the United States and the European allies is significant. I think that the vision that the United States has of its global responsibilities will continue to be an issue for continental European allies. I think it is not insignificant that the four countries that have been most public in their questioning of U.S. policy are four of the five founding continental members of both the NATO alliance and the European Union. And I think that says something about how fundamental this dispute is.

MR. KLEIN: Now, all this talk, especially from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, about old Europe, meaning, as you said, the charter members in the Western part, and new Europe, the newer members in Eastern Europe, is that bound to cause an ongoing split in the Alliance?

MR. STUART: I think that is an unfortunate approach for us to take. I think that the importance of emphasizing the community of interest is really what should guide U.S. policy. The NATO alliance was able to manage these kinds of out-of-area disputes for so many years precisely because Article IV could be viewed as a circuit breaker. People could consult about issues beyond the officially designated NATO Treaty area, but they all understood that if the tension got too great, if the disputes got too intense, they could always say, well, it is okay, NATO really is not responsible for this issue, so let's let each member solve the problem separately.

So, now we are talking about a very new NATO, where that is not going to happen anymore. And that is problematic, but it is also, I think, an interesting challenge for NATO's future. If NATO can weather these kinds of challenges, it will be a very valuable instrument for all Western democracies in dealing with global crises.

HOST: Professor Doug Stuart is the director of the Clarke Center at Dickinson College in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. He spoke with V-O-A's Kent Klein.

NEB/KK/RAE