Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)

So, Mr. Gedda, I would be glad to take your questions.

QUESTION: There is a lot of talk about second resolutions and whether it is a good idea or a bad idea. What are your thoughts?

MR. BOUCHER: I think this is -- our thoughts -- let me complete a sentence. Our thoughts are very much what they were when the original resolution was discussed and passed. We are seeing sort of the discussion come up again, but really it is the same discussion we had in working out the language for Resolution 1441 that passed on November 8th.

The resolution gives the Iraqi regime one final opportunity to disarm voluntarily. It says the Council will convene immediately if a report of Iraqi interference or failure to comply is received. Obviously, members of the Council can convene and discuss whatever issues are necessary.

The President has made very clear that we will participate in the Council's deliberations. The Council may or may not decide to pass one or other resolutions. There is no requirement for a second resolution, but we obviously reserve the right to act absent a resolution if that proves necessary, and I think there are other governments that may do that. There are precedents both ways in the Security Council for the Security Council deciding on taking action together or deciding for one reason or another not to, and therefore members of the Council and other interested, willing countries to take action.

So we have promised in 1441 a discussion in the Council on the issues. The President has indicated we would intend to take part in that, but there is no absolute requirement for a second resolution.

QUESTION: So if the use of force should become necessary, do you have any preference for whether there should be another resolution or not?

MR. BOUCHER: I think just by taking this issue to the international community and making clear that it is an international issue and it is a question of Saddam's repeated affronts to the international community, it is an issue of Saddam's failure to comply with resolutions of the United Nations, requirements of the United Nations inspectors, that it is an international issue. I think generally you can see that we have tried to work this through the United Nations, and should we decide that further action is necessary, obviously we would consider how that could be done -- if it could be done through the United Nations.

QUESTION: For those of us who are not as steeped in United Nations history, can you tell us some of these precedents you mentioned? Or --

MR. BOUCHER: I am thinking of Kuwait and Kosovo as being two examples. I am sure there are many others.

Betsy?

QUESTION: Richard, how concerned is this administration by what Mr. Baradei and Mr. Blix are saying about needing more time to try and find what they are looking for?

MR. BOUCHER: The issue, as we have made clear, is whether or not Iraq is cooperating. The inspectors' report on January 27th is important. It is an important date. It will tell us what Iraq is and is not doing.

I think you've seen from the inspectors -- they have made clear Iraq has failed to account for things like mustard gas shells and missile testing that have been cited by previous inspections. Iraq has failed to disclose the list of Iraqi scientists. It only goes up to 1991. Iraq has failed to account for purchases and procurements. Iraq has failed to allow private meetings with scientists.

They are the ones who have been citing all these things, but ultimately they report the facts and the Council members have to decide what to do. So it is important to receive their report, and members of the Council will decide what to do.

I think Dr. Blix said again today or yesterday -- that he was looking for instructions from the Security Council and would obviously follow them. That has been his attitude right from the start and we appreciate that because that separates the reporting of the facts from the decisions that may or may not be made at this time by the Council members.

So I do not think we are overly concerned. I think we are all clear that the inspectors have an important job to do and are doing it diligently and will continue to do it diligently. But what the next steps may be at any given moment is something that Security Council members can look and decide.

QUESTION: But, if there is no smoking gun by the end of this month, the US has a large number of troops that will be sitting out there.

MR. BOUCHER: I am sure our military is prepared to do whatever they have to do whenever they have to do it. That is not the reason to decide at one moment or another.

But there is also no point in continuing forever or going on if Iraq is not cooperating. The judgment on whether or not Iraq is cooperating has to be made by Security Council members. If we continue to see Iraq's failures to provide information, to account for things, to cooperate, then Security Council members will have to discuss that and consider it.

The point, I think, is that by inspecting here and inspecting there and getting through a door here and getting through a door there, we still have not established a pattern of cooperation from Iraq. The pattern of cheat-and-retreat is emerging again as the one that Iraq is following. Dr. Blix, Dr. El Baradei probably would not have to go to Baghdad this weekend if Iraq had been forthcoming, if Iraq had been providing the information and the lists and helping the inspectors conduct a disarmament program.

We all know what disarmament looks like. We have seen it with a number of countries -- after the fall of the Soviet Union. We have seen it with South Africa and any number of other places. Countries that said: "I have decided I am no longer going to be in the game of weapons of mass destruction. I am going to tell you what I have and show you what I have done, and you are going to help me get rid of it and satisfy the concerns of the international community." Iraq has not done that.

QUESTION: Richard, how do you respond to the Russian Government's charges today that the US is putting undue and unnecessary pressure on the inspectors?

MR. BOUCHER: I would just say the United States is helping the inspectors in every possible way we can. We have provided information. We have provided equipment. All of us in the Security Council provided them with authority to do their job thoroughly and to carry it out to its ultimate end of disarmament. We all want to make sure that the inspectors exercise that authority that the Council gave them.

QUESTION: If that's the case, then why do you think the Russians are being so public in their critique?

MR. BOUCHER: That is a question for the Russians.

QUESTION: Richard, this is Iraq-related. There are a number of American NGOs who are attempting to do some preliminary survey work in countries like Iran, Iraq and Syria for the potential humanitarian problems that could arise from a war with Iraq, and they are complaining that while the administration itself is doing all sorts of planning and contingency logistics work and sending troops to the region, the administration is at the same time holding up or the red tape and bureaucracy in the OFAC process, the process of getting OFAC licenses to do work in these countries which are state sponsors of terrorism, is hurting their -- in other words, they're applying for these licenses and they're not getting them or there are massive delays.

What is the State Department doing to -- or is the State Department doing anything to try and facilitate or speed this process up so that there can be NGO workers on the ground to do the humanitarian work that will be necessary if there is a war?

MR. BOUCHER: I think, first of all, the question of these licenses, as you correctly point out, is the Office of Foreign Assets Control at the Department of Treasury, and you will have to check with them on particular licenses.

We are, as you say, looking at contingency planning for whatever might occur. Part of that is not just issues inside Iraq, but issues involving the people of Iraq, possible displacements, refugees -- things like that. There is planning on that side as well to make sure we are able to take care of any humanitarian concerns that might arise.

I would imagine we are in touch with some of the outside groups and agencies that do this sort of thing as well -- to the extent we need to be at this point. But as far as on their own -- any independent efforts and what they might want to do -- the question of licensing, those travels to some places, is Treasury.

QUESTION: Well, these people say that they have met here with the Deputy Secretary, among others, and they've gotten basically no joy from the State Department in trying to, you know, grease the wheels to allow these. And included among these are several groups that have been given State Department funding to do work in Northern Iraq and Kurdistan, which was well publicized in the Federal Register announcement that you guys had actually given these people money to go in there, and yet they can't get licenses to do -- to spend any money there.

MR. BOUCHER: We support all kinds of efforts. That does not mean we want everybody to do everything everywhere.

QUESTION: No, these are people that the State Department has already said they want the programs --

MR. BOUCHER: I am not saying there is anything wrong with these people --

QUESTION: Are you prepared to help them in the OFAC -- in the licensing process?

MR. BOUCHER: I am not saying there's anything wrong with these groups. As I said, we work with these groups in many places, many ways, and are probably in touch with some of them as we go forward with our own contingency planning to make sure we can take care of any humanitarian problems that might arise. But that does not mean that we can approve every license for everybody to go wherever they might be thinking. So, as I said, the licensing process is in the hands of Treasury and I do not have anything more to say on it.

QUESTION: Well, they would suggest, though, that the amount of red tape is some kind of sign that the President and his administration are not entirely serious when they say they care about the fate of the Iraqi people. Can you dispel that notion?

MR. BOUCHER: Well, I can assure you that we absolutely are -- and we have been -- doing considerable planning on the humanitarian needs of the Iraqi people.

QUESTION: Okay, and one more on this. Is the United States, or would the State Department or the US, in general, be prepared to go to the UN Sanctions Committee to ask them to allow humanitarian aid groups to bring in mobile medical units into parts of Iraq that have -- that the units themselves will have things like chlorine bleach and atropine, which are on the Goods Review List?

MR. BOUCHER: I do not know and I am not going to make specific licensing decisions from here. I am sorry.

QUESTION: Okay, I'm sorry. I was under the impression that you might be prepared to actually answer this question since I did bring -- go over it quite extensively yesterday with some of your staff.

MR. BOUCHER: Well, I am not going to make licensing decisions from here. I am sorry.

QUESTION: Well, you're not even prepared to say that you would be willing to help these groups in their efforts to obtain the proper authorizations?

MR. BOUCHER: Again, I am not going to make licensing decisions from here. I am sorry.

Sir?

QUESTION: Yes, the Government of Turkey is officially, today they called several Arab leaders for the summit about the Iraq. Do you have any reaction on the subject?

MR. BOUCHER: Just to say that the United States wants a peaceful solution to the problems created by Iraq. We want full compliance by Iraq with the United Nations resolutions. Saddam must disarm, and if he is not willing to do so peacefully under the resolutions, he will have to be disarmed by force.

I think Turkey shares our concerns about the threat that Iraq poses to the region. We have been very closely consulting with the Turkish authorities, Turkish Government. We feel they have been very receptive to our requests about the situation, and we will continue to work with them on all these issues.

QUESTION: Have you been invited to the summit?

MR. BOUCHER: I just saw the press stories about it, but I do not think we were on the list. But certainly we are in touch with them about the issues -- all the issues involved with Iraq, including whatever efforts can be made to convince Saddam that he needs to comply. And that, again, is the way we would like to see this turn out. Unfortunately, as I said, the record so far in this recent period is of repeated failures to answer questions, to account for items, and to really comply with the kind of cooperation required under the UN resolutions.

Turkey, Terri?

QUESTION: How do you feel about the fact that you're inviting these leaders to try to come up with a unified position, actually, against going to war at the same time as the US is waiting for answers on Turkey -- answers from Turkey on whether it's going to be allowed to start some --

MR. BOUCHER: Prime Minister Gul himself has said that the onus is on Iraq. The onus is on Saddam Hussein as to whether or not there is a peaceful solution or a military one. We have discussed these issues with them and we continue to discuss them.

QUESTION: Do you have any follow-up from yesterday on the prime minister's comments? Were you able to check out whether he did make accusations on the US Government's use of --

MR. BOUCHER: My information was that he, himself, has said that he did not say that.

Okay, Betsy?

QUESTION: I'd like to try once more, Richard. If by the 27th, 28th of this month, after the -- after the report by Mr. Blix and Mr. Baradei is submitted it to the UN, if it does not contain adequate reasons to move against Iraq, is the US willing to put off that decision longer in order to give the inspectors more time to discover more things?

MR. BOUCHER: That --

QUESTION: Are you willing to delay a month or two months --

MR. BOUCHER: No, that presupposes so many things. First of all, it starts with 'if's' and second of all, it presupposes so many things it is an impossible question to answer at this time. The 27th is an important date because we will be getting an informal report from the inspectors on what Iraq is and is not doing. We will hear from them. We and other members of the Council will consider that situation.

The decision to be made -- what we would be looking at first -- is not whether or not to go to war. What we will be looking at is the question of: Is Iraq cooperating or not? That is - is Iraq fulfilling the terms of the UN resolution or not? Is Iraq taking advantage of its final opportunity? Is Iraq cooperating actively, as required by the UN resolution?

If the facts do not support a conclusion like that, then at that point we and other members of the Council have to consider what to do about it. But I do not want to build up the 27th as the particular date for a particular decision. It is a date to look at whether or not Iraq is cooperating or not, with all the information the inspectors can provide us at the time, with all the information that we know from other sources, and with all the history of how we have gotten here. Has Iraq answered the questions of previous inspectors? Have they accounted for what they bought in the meantime? I am afraid, you know, as I said, so far Iraq has failed to answer those questions.

QUESTION: Do you see that as a date from which to make a decision, a definitive decision, on what the US will do?

MR. BOUCHER: The issue on January 27th -- and soon thereafter -- is whether or not Iraq is cooperating with the United Nations. The decision that we and others make about that will determine what happens after.

QUESTION: And depending on whether people want to go on with strictly Iraqi matters, this is related, I guess.

MR. BOUCHER: Strictly Iraq.

QUESTION: I just want to question on -- again, it's a bit of a repeat but --

MR. BOUCHER: I will repeat. It is okay, I have done that before.

QUESTION: There's been a lot of belief in the rest of the world that you're putting extreme pressures on the inspectors to change their language, and we heard the change of language from Dr. Blix from a few days ago -- give us more months today since we've been more aggressive towards the Iraqis. You had Dr. Rice *prepare an unannounced visit to New York. So how do you respond to that, that you're putting --

MR. BOUCHER: Our goal has been to support the inspectors. The reason that Dr. Rice went up to meet with the inspectors in New York and the reason the Secretary met with Dr. El Baradei last week, all are about 'how can we support you?, what can we do to make sure we're supporting you in your efforts' so that they can be as thorough, as diligent and as complete as possible in their work. And we are doing that. We are doing that with information. We are doing that with equipment. But we are always working with them to make sure we're doing it enough and thoroughly.

The question of what the inspectors are saying -- I think I have quoted from the inspectors abundantly ever since we began negotiating the Security Council resolution -- you remember the inspectors were down here even before the resolution passed for a meeting with Dr. Rice, the Secretary and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz, and we talked over all the authorities in the resolution, those, you know, line-by-line things in the paragraph that said you should have the authority to interview people, you should have the authority to freeze areas, you should have the authority to do other things. We talked all that over to make sure those were things the inspectors needed, wanted and can use. And we talked about how they might use them. And we made sure that they had those authorities.

So ever since then, we have felt we have been working very closely with the inspectors, and the inspectors have been reporting not just to us but to the whole Council. Let's face it -- the Council has met twice with the inspectors in the last month. They have another meeting coming up January 27th. I am sure they will be seeing the Council on a regular basis because, right from the start, they said we are required to come if there is any interference or failure to comply, but we want to make sure that we are updating the Council on a regular basis. That will continue, I am sure.

QUESTION: But do you discuss with them not the details of the support you give but the language they use to describe what Iraq is doing?

MR. BOUCHER: I do not know specifically if we talked about language and comments. We certainly note the number of things that they have said about Iraq's failures -- failures to answer questions, failures to account, failures to provide updated lists of scientists. That is what I've heard them saying.

Andrea?

QUESTION: Richard, what about the fact that they've said that they haven't found a smoking gun? I mean, how important is that?

MR. BOUCHER: It is true, but it is not the answer to the whole question. The question is: 'Is Iraq actively cooperating?' They are never going to be able to open up every door in Iraq and see if there is a smoking gun inside, but they are going to be able to ask all the questions that have been asked from before, all the questions they have now, and know whether or not they are getting straight answers. So far, they are not.

But the issue is: 'Is Iraq actively cooperating?' As I said before, we know what disarmament looks like. Are we seeing it?

QUESTION: Are you satisfied with the work that the inspectors are doing right now? Do you feel that they are being as aggressive as they could be?

MR. BOUCHER: I think we have said before we feel the inspectors are doing a diligent job. They have been gearing up. They have added new capabilities. We have seen them be able to do new things in the recent week or so that they were not able to do before. They have the helicopters in and things like that. We do look for them to make use of all the authorities they have. So far, the Iraqis have not allowed unimpeded and private access to individuals. That is something we think they need to do. So, I think we would say they are in the process of gearing up and doing more and more, using more and more of their authority. That is a continuous process because they have not used them all yet.

Let us start backing up.

QUESTION: They do seem to have gotten access to one scientist today.

MR. BOUCHER: Is that right?

QUESTION: Yes.

MR. BOUCHER: Okay. Maybe --

QUESTION: Okay.

MR. BOUCHER: You know, one scientist does not make an "active cooperation."

QUESTION: Oh wait, I have an inspection question.

QUESTION: I have an inspections question.

MR. BOUCHER: Everybody has one. Okay.

QUESTION: You said that the inspectors are never going to be able to open every door to find a smoking gun? I thought that was the entire point of this exercise. You wanted them to go wherever they could. I mean, and we've been told for a long time, you know, that the deal here was that Iraq has got to, you know, they've got to strip, expose everything.

MR. BOUCHER: In the --

QUESTION: Is that -- am I wrong?

MR. BOUCHER: No. Yes, you are wrong. Of course you are wrong. (Laughter.)

The Iraqis have to be prepared to open every door. In fact, they should throw open the doors. That is quite clear. But in the absence of Iraqi cooperation, they are not going to be able to knock down every door in Iraq and make the Iraqis show them what is inside. There are too many doors. That is why the resolution required active cooperation.

QUESTION: On Iraqi matters, not inspections, can you say if the State Department, people in the Near East Affairs Bureau and other US officials have met with an organization called Al-Bawa* yesterday, or this week?

MR. BOUCHER: I do not know. I will check.

QUESTION: Okay.

MR. BOUCHER: Okay, David?

QUESTION: Assuming on the 27th that the answer is no, Iraq is not cooperating, and that seems to be your belief that that will be the answer, is the United States then willing to give the inspections more time?

MR. BOUCHER: Let's see where we are then, what they report then. We are looking forward to their report. We are looking forward to comparing it against everything else that we are seeing and that we know. Let's see what the Iraqis do when they go this weekend. They are going this weekend, as I said. They are going this weekend because there is a whole series of things the Iraqis have not done. We will see how much the Iraqis do them. Let us see where we are on the 27th.

(...)

QUESTION: This might be too recent, also, like the scientists, but the UN has apparently just announced that it just found 11 containers from -- 11 empty chemical warhead containers in good condition. Did you get any heads up on that earlier than we may have?

MR. BOUCHER: I did not, but people in this building may have. I will check and see if there is anything we can say about it.

QUESTION: Eleven empty chemical warheads in good condition.

MR. BOUCHER: Yes. As you know, I mean, look back at the fact sheet we did on December 19th, I think. Chemical munitions were one of the major areas we said was unaccounted for, so I am not too surprised.

(...)

QUESTION: The President of Egypt said that the chances of war, he thinks, is 50/50. The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia said he has a feeling that war can be avoided. Do you attribute any of these feelings to some American position that have been given to these leaders? This is one.

The other question is the United States is solving the problem with North Korea through dialogue with the regional powers. What can't the United States treat the Middle East the same way and give the regional powers some leeway to work on that?

MR. BOUCHER: I think both of these questions, the answer is ask Saddam Hussein; that we, as you know, we have not been trying to handicap or give the chances of a peaceful solution. But the peaceful solution is in his hands. If he wants to disclose his programs and allow them to be destroyed by the United Nations inspectors, then we can avoid the need for military force. That decision is in his hands and that is the decision that he has to make and he should make. He should have already made it through 12 years of patient diplomacy by the United Nations, by the United States, and the others. He has failed every time. He has failed to comply with 16 resolutions including now, I guess, the 17th. It looks like he is not complying for the final opportunity.

But the decision is in his hands. Is he going to comply? Is he going to disclose? Is he going to allow the disarmament, the end of these horrible programs of weapons of mass destruction that have killed so many people already in Iraq, in Iran and in his neighborhood? That is his decision.

The same question, then, comes up when you talk about the diplomacy of the matter. Iraq has failed to comply through 12 years of diplomacy. Iraq has failed to comply with the entreaties of its neighbors for many times over many years. We would hope that Iraq would listen this time, would listen to the Security Council, would listen to the regional partners, would listen to people that live in the neighborhood. But it is clear to all of us that Iraq cannot be allowed to develop weapons of mass destruction.

QUESTION: Are you still open to the exile of Saddam Hussein from the country?

MR. BOUCHER: It would be a wise choice should he choose to make it.