Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)

I also got a chance to speak to Mr. Talabani and Mr. Barzani about the plans that are being worked on by the Governing Council, of course they are both on the Governing Council and familiar with those plans. And I reinforced the point that we believe firmly that we should follow Ambassador Bremer's seven-step plan and go about this in a very deliberate way and make sure that we're putting in place the institutions of government and then, of course, the documents of government, the constitution.

And they have to still figure out what kind of a government they wish to have. What will the legislature look like, the executive branch, and so I told them that we needed to go about his in a deliberate way. And at the same time, we want to see a government that rests on the legitimacy of the people as obtained through an election. Both of them are.expressed support with our approach.

We talked about the economic reforms that are also under way. Throughout my two days here, I've been talking to all of them about the need for political democracy and economic democracy, political reform and economic reform, and Ambassador Bremer is hard at work on an economic plan. There are the elements to the tax reform, tariffs, allowing foreign direct investment in a much easier way: privatization, the things you would expect us to talk about. And they are -- will be considering legislation, if I can call it that.I'm stretching for a word at this point.changing in their old laws in order to commit these kinds of things, and expect they'll be making some decisions over the next several days. Ambassador Bremer this morning signed out the order creating the independent judiciary I spoke about earlier, as well.

And so they are on their way. They know what they have to do, the way ahead is a difficult one, but there is a way ahead. I didn't have much chance to talk to the troops today, but I did get a couple of conversations in. I used to be an Assistant Division Commander in the Fourth Mechanized Division, General (Inaudible)'s division, so we swapped iron horse stories, the nickname of the division. And, I also used to be Brigade Commander of the 101st Airborne Division, so I had a chance to talk to some of the kids from the 101st. (Inaudible). The crew that flew me from 101st Assault Helicopter Battalion at Fort Campbell. And I was telling them that I was there the day the first Blackhawk was delivered as the Brigade Commander with the 101^st Assault Helicopter Battalion. And none of these kids were alive, they weren't born yet. (Inaudible).

QUESTION: (Inaudible)

SECRETARY POWELL: No, I was just born; I was a year old. They're young kids, the kids flying me. None of them was born when I first saw a Blackhawk. (Inaudible). So what they gave to me, especially Colonel Bill (Inaudible), who is the Commander of the 173rd Airborne, in which I did not serve. But, he and the Assistant Division Commander for support of the Fourth Mech, who was there at the end when we were getting ready to get in the 120, 130. We were talking about that region and what they've got going on. And, you know, they said "Hey, sir. We're fighting some remnants of an old regime who've got nothing else to do except pop off a few rounds, and that's all there is from here. These people we deal with, they're manageable, not as is there is a huge insurgency up here so much as there are remnants of the regime who just won't quite give it up, but they have nothing else to do." They've seen no indications yet in this part of the country of the kind of terrorist activity that we saw in Baghdad with the bombings of the embassy and the UN office.

And so the situation is different in each part of the country. But the commanders are confident that they get their hands around these security issues. But for the mid- and long-term, really we have to accelerate the training of the Iraqi National Police, and the raising up of an army, as well as the paramilitary, or I forget the name (Inaudible), not quite, they're not militias, but they're paramilitary, that they're able to train more quickly than regular forces that don't require the sophistication and arrest procedures and judicial procedures that police do. They can guard things and relieve the burden off of our troops. And, more importantly than relieving the burden off our troops, put an Iraqi face on it. And give people some confidence for the future of their country, and that their institutions are now being grown.

Clearly security is a major issue for us. Principally the triangle that you've heard about so much and know so well, and that's where, General Abizaid and General Sanchez are focusing their attention. I think I'll stop there because you guys seem to be..

MR. BOUCHER: We probably have time for three or four questions.

SECRETARY POWELL: Yeah. I still have a meeting, too.

QUESTION: Do you think Kurdish nationalism is dead?

SECRETARY POWELL: No. Kurdish nationalism will always be a live issue. These are people who have been oppressed for many, many years, and I made it clear to them today, though, that we are interested in a political system that keeps the country intact and we would not wish to see a political system that is organized on ethnic lines, or a country organized politically along ethnic lines. There are other ways to do it that would not essentially bring into the future the ethnic problems that have been there all along in this part of the (inaudible). They understand that and we'll have different models to show them.

MR. BOUCHER: They all talked in terms of a united Iraq.

SECRETARY POWELL: Yeah, there was no question, if that was the essence of the question: nobody's talking about breaking up. But I think your question really went to whether or not they would organize ethnically, whether the geographic or political division would be ethnically-based.

QUESTION: Can I follow on that? Does that mean the United States does not support a federal (Inaudible)?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, I didn't say that. The question is, how do you design a federal state, federal states? You know, there are ways to do that it that are not strictly based on ethnicity.

QUESTION: Can you talk a little bit more about your meeting yesterday with the Iraqi Governing Council? It wasn't a cohesive group to begin with, and to what extent are they now cohesive? Or, are the outsiders and the insiders not getting along? What's the dynamic there?

SECRETARY POWELL: I don't want to overplay a roughly hour and a half meeting, that I came away with perfect wisdom about it, but I sensed that they were a group of people who represent every segment of this society, who know they had better work together to enjoy the kind of international support that they are now getting and to make sure that they continue to draw the support and investment of the United States.

And, they will have their work cut out for them as they determine how the constitution will be written. The interesting dynamic to watch is cabinet ministries, because it's the cabinet ministries that will actually be out there doing work with people and will be out there providing services and will be the recipient of resources as they come into the country from outside, especially from the United States. And so Ambassador Bremer will have to organize this and monitor in a careful way and they'll have to organize themselves so that they really are coming together. Because the cabinet ministries are not ethnic. They are, the Cabinet Ministers initially are ethnic-based - that's because of an ethnic distribution - but regardless of their ethnicity, that Cabinet Minister now has responsibility for the whole country. And I think that we are going to be seeing our efforts focusing as much on those cabinet ministries which become the institutions of government as much as we would be focusing on the actions of the Governing Council, which in fact, at the moment, are an embryonic legislature and executive branch. Until we can grow the institutions (Inaudible).

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, from what you've seen, how long before there can be a transfer of sovereignty back to the Iraqi people?

SECRETARY POWELL: I'm not prepared to predict that. It's going to take time and I don't want to put a time dimension on it. Some people have spoken about the end of 2004, that's conceivable. But I'm not prepared to fix a date yet. The first important step is getting a constitution. The step before that is forming a committee that will write that constitution for you. If we were here some months from now and a constitution had been written and ratified, then I might be in a better position to answer your question. The one thing I do know, it is as unrealistic as I described it the other day to suggest that a month from now, or two months from now, you can transfer sovereignty, and by sovereignty I mean we no longer are the government, and there is an Iraqi government prepared to take over full responsibility for the welfare of this country, the security of this country, and the future of this country. It just, it can't be; it isn't going to happen; it's unrealistic; and, as much as one can discuss this issue of the logic of occupation versus the logic of sovereignty versus the logic of whatever else comes out of this serious effort, it's going to happen.

QUESTION: Can you talk about your dinner last night and if you get a sense the new leadership has goals that can work in parallel with (Inaudible)?

SECRETARY POWELL: This particular (Inaudible) leader. He's moderate, he was tortured by Hussein, he was beaten. Very, very impressive man. I regret that we couldn't have what is for him a traditional three to four to five hour dinner. We had to kind of cut it short, to about an hour and forty-five minutes, two hours. But he.we had a fascinating conversation where he was discussing to me his view of the role of religion in the country, and the role of government, and how they both had a role to play and one of those derived from God, and the other one derived from men, a political institution. And they should have their proper separation. It triggered so many things to me that I then gave him a very good, I thought, description of the opening line to our Declaration of Independence, which (Inaudible). It fits pretty well.

QUESTION: (Inaudible)

SECRETARY POWELL: Governments are instituted among men to secure the rights that that have been given by God and are inalienable.

QUESTION: Basically you're even more determined not to capitulate to the French?

SECRETARY POWELL: I was never going to capitulate to the French. I mean, are you serious? Why does everybody keep focusing on the French? There are 15 nations in the Security Council. If we get a resolution that serves our purposes, fine; and if it turns out that the (Inaudible) resolution is useful, fine. We know what we're doing. We're going ahead. The President is committed to this, we're all committed to this. I have a better understanding of how Jerry's going to go about this, a better understanding of what our commander is doing. I'll explain this to my colleagues in the Security Council, and I'm confident that we can work together and we'll see what happens. My guys will start discussing things with them in New York. The resolution hasn't been on my mind much in the last 24 hours, but it's not a question of capitulating to anyone. We're going ahead.

QUESTION: Any change in the Kurds' position on Turkish troops?

SECRETARY POWELL: It came up today, it came up with the Governing Council. There are.how shall I put this delicately.there are serious sensitivities associated with Turkish troops. Nevertheless, we're going to continue to discuss it. I asked them today to have an open mind about it, that we can come up with some ways to deal with those sensitivities. But we'll have to work our way through that.

Okay?