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Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)

Washington File

21 May 2003

Romania Can Be Model for Iraq, Wolfowitz Tells Pro TV

(May 19 interview with Lucian Mandruta) (2120)
Romania's recent experience in transitioning to democracy, which has
been impressive although not yet a complete success, could be an
example for the future of newly liberated Iraq, U.S. Deputy Defense
Secretary Paul Wolfowitz told Pro TV in Bucharest May 19.
"I think Romania is definitely a model of success, but it's also got
some lessons to teach about things that don't work, and things you
should do faster and things that maybe you should do slower," he said.
Wolfowitz met earlier in the day with Romanian officials, including
Defense Minister Ioan Mircea Pascu, and said they discussed Romania's
contribution to peacekeeping efforts in Iraq. Initially the government
would likely provide a battalion-size force and some military police,
he said.
His discussions with Prime Minister Adrian Nastase also included the
issue of post-war reconstruction contracts for Romanian companies,
Wolfowitz said.
"They have to go in and bid, and they have to be able to win bids. But
I think what we want to try and make sure is, at least for those
countries that participated in the coalition, as Romania did, that
it's a level playing field. Sometimes that may mean trying to make
sure that Romanian companies understand the rules under which they are
bidding because no matter how hard you try, you can always do better
in making a bidding process transparent."
He added that the United States is going to try to make sure the
Romanian government "has all the information that Romanians need to
know how to compete in this process."
Asked about another important issue to Romanians, that of corruption,
Wolfowitz noted that officials are working to deal with the problem
and that anti-corruption measures should not be taken "to please the
United States," but because they are needed to "get the Romanian
economy really going again."
"Corruption is a disease, and it's a disease that can destroy an
economy," he said. "You can't cure it overnight, but I think it's very
important to work at it. If you ask me what's most important for the
long-term security of Romania, it's actually to get the economy
healthy, and to have a healthy economy, you have to deal with
corruption."
Wolfowitz also discussed Romania's candidacy for membership in NATO
and answered a question about its relations with the European Union.
Following is a transcript:
(begin transcript)
United States Department of Defense
News Transcript
http://dod.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030519-depsecdef0205.html
Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz Interview with Lucian
Mandruta, Pro TV
Bucharest, Romania
Monday, May 19, 2003
Introduction in Romanian: "Here with me now in Bucharest is the U.S.
Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. His Excellency spoke with
several Romanian officials, among those were the Minister of Foreign
Affairs and the Prime Minister."
QUESTION: Mr. Wolfowitz, what was the main topic that you talked about
with the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense?
WOLFOWITZ: Well, we have done a great deal with our two countries, and
defense cooperation has really been outstanding. Ever since September
11th, Romania's been a great partner in the war on terrorism in
Afghanistan, and now, in Iraq, and the post-Saddam period, and we're
looking forward to helping the Romanian armed forces. Also Romania's
Defense reform has been a very important part of Romania's accession
to NATO. As you probably know, our Senate just recently ratified the
seven new members of NATO. That's a big step forward. So, I wanted to
express our appreciation for that cooperation and to talk about
defense reforms.
Q: What's your expectation in regarding to Romania uh in the
post-Saddam era in Iraq? Troops? What type of involvement?
WOLFOWITZ: Well, definitely there will be a Romanian contribution to
peacekeeping forces. We talked about that with Defense Minister Pascu.
Probably, at least initially, I think something like a battalion-size
contribution as part of the units that are there, and also some
military police. In Afghanistan, as you probably know -- but it's
worth repeating here -- people have been there I think almost from the
very beginning and have distinguished themselves in combat. Romanian
forces captured the largest, single cache of arms that we've found so
far in Afghanistan. So, that contribution is important. On the
non-military side, frankly one of the reasons I was interested in
visiting here was to try to learn about Romania's experience in
transition from a totalitarian system to a democratic one. It's very
different circumstances.
Q: Can we help in that direction?
WOLFOWITZ: Well, I think you can. I think the knowledge and expertise
as accumulated here, of things that work and things that don't work,
and things you should do faster and things that maybe you should do
slower.
Q: Does that mean that you are considering Romania as an example of
success in terms of transition to democracy?
WOLFOWITZ: Absolutely. Does that mean it's a complete success? Not
yet, but if you think about where Romania has come from, it's pretty
impressive. And, if you also think about where it still has to go,
then you have a lot of difficult work to do. But I think that's
actually an inspiring example, because I think sometimes, mistakenly,
people set up the American example as what Iraq has to aspire to, and
we've been at it for over 200 years. We've had our problems at the
beginning of our history. And yet, I can't think of a country that
didn't. So, yes, I think Romania is definitely a model of success, but
it's also got some lessons to teach about things that don't work. We
would hope not only to have that kind of expertise, but I know also
there's also a great interest on the part of Romanian companies to
participate in the reconstruction efforts in Iraq. And we need to
emphasize that in our system we've got to do things on a competitive
basis.
Q: They have to go in and bid.
WOLFOWITZ: They have to go in and bid, and they have to be able to win
bids. But I think what we want to try and make sure is, at least for
those countries that participated in the coalition, as Romania did,
that it's a level playing field. Sometimes that may mean trying to
make sure that Romanian companies understand the rules under which
they are bidding because no matter how hard you try, you can always do
better in making a bidding process transparent.
Q: Did Romanian authorities mention this bidding process to you, and
did they have specific demands in terms of economic reconstruction in
Iraq, for the Romanian companies?
WOLFOWITZ: Definitely. Not demands and not things specific, but I did
talk with the Prime Minister about the fact that our system can be
complicated at times. And you have an outstanding Ambassador who's
been back in Iraq or going back to Iraq, Mr. Onofrei, and everyone
says he's a real expert on the country and a real expert in Arabic,
which is a good thing. And we are going to try to make sure he has all
the information that Romanians need to know how to compete in this
process.
He'll be the point of contact with the office that we set up called
the Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance. That word
reconstruction probably should be modified, because what we need to do
is not reconstruction. There wasn't that much damage from the war,
except in certain specific areas. But the damage from 35 years of
tyranny is enormous. And the same kind of waste of resources that took
place under the old dictator here is taking place in Iraq. So, there's
got to be that kind of renovation.
Q: Now, if you don't mind, I'll go through two subjects that were
really important here in the last few weeks. Ah, it started when the
American Ambassador, Mr. Guest, specifically, mentioned corruption in
one of his speeches, saying that this is one of the biggest problems
of Romania, and this is one of the reasons, if not the main reason,
that American investors are shying away from investing here. What's
the official point of view of the Administration, and what is your
personal view on that?
WOLFOWITZ: That is the official view, and it's not set in the spirit
of antagonism or hostility. It's really said [in] the spirit of
friendship. And we know there are many officials in your government,
including the President, who spoke about it just the other day, who
are working to deal with this problem. And frankly [I] think that by
saying the kind of thing the Ambassador said the other day, we can
help give them some support against people who say, "Oh, it's not that
bad." I was the American Ambassador to Indonesia in the 1980s, and I
can tell you corruption is a disease, and it's a disease that can
destroy an economy. You can't cure it overnight, but I think it's very
important to work at it. If you ask me what's most important for the
long-term security of Romania, it's actually to get the economy
healthy, and to have a healthy economy, you have to deal with
corruption.
Q: Do you feel that there are certain steps being implemented? Is the
administration really looking at a timetable for what's happening with
corruption in Romania? Do you have a specific thing that you are
expecting from Romanian authorities?
WOLFOWITZ: I think that the Ambassador has had some excellent private
discussions with Romanian authorities, and there is a limit on how
helpful we can be by discussing too much in public. But I think one
major step that's been taken that impresses me -- I hadn't known about
it until I came here -- is that now all officials have to declare
their private assets, and I gather for some people that's a little
upsetting. But until you have that kind of transparency for government
officials, it's very hard to control things. Transparency in our
experience is the most effective control. When people know what's
going on, then the worst kinds of excesses just don't happen.
Q: It's just the beginning. Is there anything more that you're
expecting?
WOLFOWITZ: Oh, there's a lot more. I wouldn't say that we expect. I
can't. I know that the Ambassador could, but he wouldn't because I
think your officials know what's needed. And it's not a matter of what
we expect. You are not doing this to please the United States. It's
what is needed in order to get the Romanian economy really going
again. Everything I've heard suggests that Romanians as a people have
a real knack for commerce and business. And in fact, I think you have
a rather thriving informal economy, as we call it. But that is a
measure of the problems in the formal economy, and it's not the most
efficient way to make progress. I think, if you can deal with the
bureaucratic impediments, if you can deal with the corruption, this
country can really take off.
Q: And the last question, you know Romania, being a part of the
coalition that was gathered by the United States to fight a war in
Iraq and depose Saddam Hussein, has run into some sort of a trouble
with the European Union. At the present moment, our relationship with
the European Union has been a bit affected by that. Where do you see a
solution for trying to keep a good relationship both with the United
States and with the European Union, for Romania?
WOLFOWITZ: Well, let's be clear, 15 of 19 NATO countries supported the
same position Romania did. When I last checked, the UK was a member of
the European Union, and Spain was a member of the European Union, so
was Portugal. So, the problem isn't the whole European Union. But more
importantly, I think, if we think about the future instead of the
past, and if we think about the fact -- which I think is now
recognized by the whole world -- that the actions that we did
together, with you and other coalition countries, to remove one of the
most vile dictatorships in the world. We now have a common cause with
all of the members of the European Union, to build a free, democratic,
and prosperous Iraq. And I think if we focus on that common task, we
can bridge some of those differences. I would look to the future, not
look at the past too much.
Q: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much.
WOLFOWITZ: Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)



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