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14 November 2002

Armitage Says Peaceful Means of Dealing with Iraq Must Be Exhausted

(Says there will "zero tolerance" for interference with weapons
inspections) (3270)
Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said the American public
and the international community need to feel that every avenue in the
search for peace has been exhausted before resorting to warfare to
eliminate weapons of mass destruction from Iraq.
Speaking in an interview on Fox News November 13, Armitage added that
after U.N. weapons inspectors return to Iraq, there will be "zero
tolerance for Saddam Hussein and his hierarchy" if they try to
interfere with the inspectors' attempts to uncover chemical,
biological or nuclear weapons.
"[W]e have negotiated a resolution which basically allows Dr. Blix and
the inspectors to go anywhere, anytime, day or night, and talk to
whomever they want. And if those sort of key elements are violated, if
there's obfuscation of blockage of his ability and his inspectors'
ability to do them, it would be considered material breach and we
would bring that back and discuss it with the Council," Armitage said.
Armitage said regardless of what the United Nations does, President
Bush has the authority to go to war with Iraq if he determines such a
course of action is necessary to defend the United States.
Turning to efforts to eliminate North Korea's nuclear weapons,
Armitage said Japan, South Korea, China, Russia and the European Union
are joined with the United States in a coalition working to keep the
Korean Peninsula free of nuclear weapons.
"So we've got a lot going for us in the approach to the North
Koreans," Armitage said.
Commenting on a recent tape purporting to be the voice of Usama bin
Laden, Armitage said the Bush administration is intent upon continuing
the war on terrorism.
"[W]e've got to rip these vermin out root and branch, and that's what
the President is going to do," Armitage said.
Following is the transcript of Armitage's interview:
(begin transcript)
Interview on FOX News with Jim Angle
Richard Armitage, Deputy Secretary of State
Washington, DC
November 13, 2002
MR. ANGLE: Mr. Secretary, thank you for joining us. Saddam Hussein has
now accepted the inevitable and has said he will allow the UN
inspectors to come back, has embraced the resolution. It is really, in
fact, as the Iraqis say, an unconditional acceptance?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, they wrote a nine-page letter that
was of interminable length and a veritable screed. But at the end of
the letter, toward on around the seventh page, he said to the Security
Council send in the inspectors.
MR. ANGLE:  So there were a lot of other things around it?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: A lot of comments about the whole debate
regarding Security Council Resolution 1441. But at the end, he twice
says send in the inspectors.
MR. ANGLE: And how horribly biased we are toward the Iraqis and Saddam
Hussein?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, certainly towards Saddam Hussein.
MR. ANGLE:  But, eventually, they came to the right point?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: They eventually, in the letter, came to the
right point.
MR. ANGLE: Now, that was the first moment of truth to him -- moment of
truth for him. Several more are to follow, including a declaration
about whether or not they have weapons of mass destruction. The Iraqi
Ambassador said today Iraq is clean. We obviously have evidence to the
contrary.
So what happens once they make that declaration?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: We'll have to see what declaration they
make. They have 30 days from last Friday's vote to make a declaration
concerning weapons of mass destruction. Mr. Blix and his colleagues
have 45 days from last Friday's vote to have inspectors on the scene
to begin these inspections and will test the proposition as to whether
or not they have weapons of mass destruction. Let the whole world see.
MR. ANGLE: So it will not be a case in which the fact that they
declare they have none and we say that we believe they do have some,
that will not be considered material breach; it will be when the
inspectors actually find evidence to the contrary?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, in theory, a false declaration could
be a material breach. But I think, in fact, it would have to be false
declarations combined with attempts at obfuscation or concealment or
blocking inspectors, something of that nature.
MR. ANGLE: Now, that raises an interesting question. What will it take
for us to determine whether or not Saddam is or is not genuinely
cooperating? There is a fear, as you know, that the inspectors will go
there, they will wander around and not be able to either prove or
disprove that Iraq has weapons, and that we'll be in limbo for a
while.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, it's very possible we'd be in limbo
for a while. But we're talking, at the end of the day, about a very
serious endeavor; that is, warfare. And I think the American public,
indeed, the international audience, needs to feel that we have
exhausted every search, or every avenue in the search for peace,
before we turn to warfare.
MR. ANGLE: Now, the US view now is zero tolerance for any shenanigans
from Saddam Hussein.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Yeah. Now, let's be clear. If some obscure
captain in some obscure location tries to temporarily block somebody's
entrance, that's something that we'll have to decide on the scene. But
zero tolerance for Saddam Hussein and his hierarchy is the policy.
MR. ANGLE: And what does zero tolerance mean? What does that translate
into in practice?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, we have negotiated a resolution which
basically allows Dr. Blix and the inspectors to go anywhere, anytime,
day or night, and talk to whomever they want. And if those sort of key
elements are violated, if there's obfuscation of blockage of his
ability and his inspectors' ability to do them, it would be considered
material breach and we would bring that back and discuss it with the
Council.
MR. ANGLE: One of the things in the resolution is a reference to the
no-fly zones and that Saddam has the obligation not to fire on US and
British planes in that area. Firing on US and British planes, I
gather, would be a further material breach.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, in my view, it's certainly a material
breach of past resolutions that we've had, and I think it's a very
serious violation, one that he'd be well advised to stay away from.
But I can't predict right now ultimately whether the Council will find
that is material breach. I personally would.
MR. ANGLE: Now, one of the interesting things about the resolution,
the one that was one of the most difficult points of negotiations, was
that the way it is written, any violation, any interference, any
refusal to comply, is, by definition, a material breach. We do not
have to go back to the Security Council to argue over whether it is or
isn't, is a big one or a small one; it is material breach. The only
reason we would go back to the Security Council if, in fact, there is
such a breach is to talk about what to do.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Yes, we go back to talk about the serious
consequences. Clearly, in order to talk about serious consequences,
you have to identify the material breach. That's common sense. But
you're right, in essence, and if we go back to the Council it's to
talk about the consequences of the bad actions of Saddam Hussein.
MR. ANGLE: And there is nothing in that resolution that, in any way,
restricts what the US might otherwise do.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: The President of the United States had
before the resolution, has now, and will have after the resolution all
the authority he needs to protect our country. If he determines, in
order to protect our citizens and our people, that he needs to go to
war with Iraq, he has the authority.
MR. ANGLE: What did you make of all the political theater in Baghdad
with the Iraqi parliament coming out, voting unanimously to reject the
UN resolution; 24 hours later, Saddam Hussein accepts it? It looks
like the Iraqi parliament doesn't have that much say after all.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I must say, after an election in
which 99.9 percent of the people allegedly voted for Saddam Hussein,
what else could you expect? You called it theater. I call it
absurdity.
MR. ANGLE: It was kind of a ridiculous exercise, even to have his son
send a letter urging them to accept it, and then, apparently, since it
was a unanimous vote and he's a legislator, apparently, voting against
it himself.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: No one took it seriously. Most of the
networks didn't take it seriously. It was laughed off or brushed off,
then we waited for an official response from Saddam Hussein. So much
for democracy Iraqi style, by the way.
MR. ANGLE: (Laughter.) Let me ask you a quick question about North
Korea. Another fuel oil shipment is scheduled to go there as part of
this agreement, this agreement that the US has with Japan and South
Korea and the European Union. The whole agreement, the whole
arrangement with North Korea, is in limbo because of their
acknowledgement they have a nuclear program.
This is a tough issue for the US because so many parties are involved.
What is our position on future fuel oil shipments, especially the next
one, which is due in a few days?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, the President and his colleagues are
debating and discussing the issue of the next fuel shipment.
One of the reasons that you correctly say that this is a difficult
issue is because many of our good, close friends are very much
involved in normalization activities with the North Koreans; to wit,
Japan and the Republic of Korea. Additionally, two other friends, the
People's Republic of China and the Russian Federation, have very
strong views, very similar to our own, about the need to denuclearize
the Peninsula of Korea.
And therefore, we have to tread very carefully, and hopefully in
lockstep with all four of those other countries. So it may very well
be that one shipment or another goes through, but I think at the end
of the day there will be no mistake in Pyongyang, no mistaking the
seriousness of the United States, the President of the United States,
and, indeed, the international community on the issue.
MR. ANGLE: We do have some leverage with them, do we not? I mean, they
need, they depend on, Western support.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, they depend on Western support, some
support from China. They have, in the past, sold weapons and scud
missiles, et cetera, for hard currency. Yeah, they're between a rock
and a hard place.
MR. ANGLE: But, on the other hand, they're also threatening to take
out from international protection the plutonium that they froze in
1994, so that makes it even trickier for us.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: They, as part of the so-called Framework
Agreement, froze the plutonium at Yongbyon, and if they were to remove
the substance, in a relatively short period of time they would have
access to plutonium for weapons of mass destruction, particularly with
nuclear arms.
MR. ANGLE:  That makes it a tricky issue for the US.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: It does. It's obvious. You've identified it
as such yourself. But it's one in which the United States already has
a coalition -- Japan, South Korea, China and Russia -- and I might
add, the European Union, who has very strong views about the need to
keep the Peninsula clear of weapons of mass destruction. So we've got
a lot going for us in the approach to the North Koreans.
MR. ANGLE: Let me ask you about a new tape that came out yesterday
that purports to be the voice of Usama bin Laden talking about recent
terrorist attacks, including Bali and others. Do you, in fact, believe
that is the voice of Usama bin Laden?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, it looks more and more as if that's
the case, but I don't think any US Government official is ready to
categorically say that it is Usama bin Laden.
It is very interesting. This tape, as I recall, does not claim credit
for these recent attacks but makes note of them and seems to be
suggesting that it's time to bring about the war of civilization, that
is, Islam versus the West, something that all the civilized world,
including most of the Islamic world, wants to avoid at all costs.
MR. ANGLE:  It certainly applauds them and encourages them.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I mean, indeed so and is extremely
inhumane in doing so. But I think if you keep your eye on what,
apparently, is the objective of that tape, that is, to bring about
this conflict of civilization, and begin to understand the diabolical
nature of this group, al-Qaida.
MR. ANGLE: Now, if it is, in fact, the voice of Usama bin Laden, what
does that mean? What's the significance?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I think the significant is twofold.
One, if it is, indeed, the voice and it's not a spliced tape from past
pronouncements of Usama bin Laden, that means, one, that he was alive
recently and is alive probably; and secondarily, that he is presaging
another attack against Western interests somewhere. You notice he
doesn't limit himself to the United States; he talks about many
friends and allies. And it's a warning that the war on terrorism, as
our President has said, is going to go on for some time, and we've got
to rip these vermin out root and branch, and that's what the President
is going to do.
MR. ANGLE: In fact, that voice specifically identified the British,
our closest ally, and the British have, in fact, been on alert
recently because they believe they are the target of some attacks in
the near future.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: There have been various intelligence
reports recently that cite Great Britain purporting to indicate that
an attack is on the way. We have to take all of these seriously, as
our British friends have to. We can't afford to ignore it.
MR. ANGLE: Let me ask you about some State Department personnel who
are up for confirmation, particularly Maura Harty, who is up to be
head of Consular Affairs, which, as you know, has a recent troubled
history. And some critics, especially conservative critics, have
suggested that she is tarnished because she was part of the agency
that granted visas to the 9/11 terrorists.
What is your view? What can you say to the critics as they approach a
vote on her?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I'd say that President Bush and Secretary
Powell have looked closely at the qualifications of Maura Harty and
they pronounced themselves satisfied, number one.
Number two, I think, personally, there was some sloppy work in the
granting of some of the visas to some of those Saudis who came here
and conducted these heinous attacks.
But the fact of the matter is nobody was wearing a sign saying they
were terrorists; there was no information in the criminal or
intelligence database which would have led anyone to understand these
people in the back of the lines were intent on doing us harm.
Can we have done better? Yes. Should we have done better? Absolutely.
But I find it hard to believe that Maura Harty should be held
responsible for that while she was holding the job as Executive
Secretary for the Secretary of State of the United States of America.
MR. ANGLE: Well, and you are in the midst of reforming that agency,
but why should Members of Congress believe that Maura Harty is the
person to undertake those reforms?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, they ought to take time to introduce
themselves to Ms. Harty. They'd find that she's feisty, she's tough,
she knows the issues inside and out.
And there's a wide swath of issues involved. It's not simply the
granting of visas. Millions of Americans get in jams each year. It's
consular officials who get them out. Millions of Americans lose their
passports or arrive at some untoward adventure in their foreign
travel, and it is Consular Affairs officers who take care of them. It
is Consular Affairs officers who try to solve the problems of child
abductees, and sometimes with some remarkable success and sometimes,
yes, some failures.
MR. ANGLE:  And that's one of the things she's been criticized for.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Yeah, this is very interesting. She has
been criticized for this, and, again, it was Maura Harty who began the
Office of Children's Issues in Consular Affairs in the early '90s,
which started with four people and it's now got 17. So it's very
interesting to be damned for having started an office whose very
existence is dedicated to the resolution of the question of child
abductions.
MR. ANGLE: Now, there is one interesting thing in the offing. Homeland
Security, a Homeland Security Department, looks as if it's on the
verge of passage.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Thank God.
MR. ANGLE: And once it is in place, part of what the State Department
does will fall under the rubric of Homeland Security, especially
granting visas.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, the policy oversight of that will
fall under Homeland Security. It will be Consular Affairs officers
working under the direction of the Secretary of State who will
actually grant the visas. But the policy direction for those will,
indeed, come from Homeland Security.
We've had an excellent relationship with Governor Ridge and his staff
thus far. Secretary Powell certainly will continue to have that type
of relationship if Governor Ridge is the Director of Homeland Security
or whoever else is chosen by our President.
MR. ANGLE: Let me go back to one other thing and then let you go.
There was a report yesterday that Iraq was attempting to buy 1.25
million doses of atropine, an antidote to nerve gas, and other
antidotes to chemical warfare.
What do you make of all that, and what is the US doing to make sure
that he isn't able to buy those things?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, we have export regulations and
controls. We have been very active with friends near to Iraq and
farther away trying to make sure we prevent any such shipments.
What it says to me is that for a nation who declares they don't have
weapons of mass destruction, why in the world would they want an
antidote when they know very well that the United States and the rest
of us who might possibly be in a coalition against her have done away
with our stocks of such weapons? So it kind of makes an apparent lie
of their protestations.
MR. ANGLE: Now, there is a legitimate civilian medical use for
atropine, but I gather the US looks at the amount he is ordering and
says this couldn't possibly be for civilian use.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: Well, I don't think it's just the US. I
think any air breather would come to the same conclusion.
MR. ANGLE:   (Laughter.)  Any air breather?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Well, even members of the press.
MR. ANGLE: (Laughter.) Anything I didn't ask you, sir, that's
important for us to be paying attention to?
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE: I'm sure there is, but I can't think of it.
MR. ANGLE: (Laughter.) All right, let me just get a closing shot.
Secretary Armitage, thank you very much.
DEPUTY SECRETARY ARMITAGE:  Thank you, Mr. Angle.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)