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27 September 2002

State's Grossman Interviewed about U.S.-Greek Ties, Iraq, Cyprus

(September 25 interview with Greek TV) (2512)
The United States and Greece "see many things exactly the same way,"
and Washington is "very pleased with the status and the warmth and the
incredible ties" it has with Athens, Under Secretary of State for
Political Affairs Marc Grossman said in an interview with Greek
television September 25.
"We think Greek-American relations are in wonderful shape," he said,
specifically citing Greece's "admirable" efforts to eliminate the
November 17 terrorist organization and calling that a "wonderful
development."
Asked if the United States expects Europeans 'to follow you in Iraq,
because they followed you in Afghanistan,' Grossman replied:
"I think the question of whether to follow us is not quite the way to
put it. The Europeans made their own choice about what to do in
Afghanistan. We're very glad, not to have them following us there, but
to have them with us there. And they'll make their own choice about
the future as well. What we have been saying is that this threat that
comes from Iraq is a threat not just to the United States, but to
Europeans and to Greece, to all the countries in the region. So this
is not about following; this is about joining to ensure that Iraqis
meet their obligations [to the international community]."
Grossman also said he fervently wishes that talks on Cyprus will "come
to some successful resolution," and that the United States supports
the efforts of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan to bring the two sides
together.
"I believe that if we all are smart and we're creative, then we can
use this time all together to create not a crisis but a big
opportunity for the European Union, for Greece, for Cyprus, and very
much for Turkey as well," he said.
Following is a transcript of the interview:
(begin transcript)
Department of State
Washington, D.C.
MARC GROSSMAN, UNDER SECRETARY OF  STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS
INTERVIEW BY GREEK TV
September 25, 2002
QUESTION: It seems almost to everybody that the attack against Iraq is
imminent. Do you agree with them?
MR. GROSSMAN: First of all, thank you very much for inviting me here
today. I think you have to step back from the President's speech on
the 12th of September in New York. The President did not go there to
declare war. He didn't go there to say that we were going to attack
Iraq. He went there to state a purpose, which is that Iraq must comply
with the obligations that it made not to the United States, but to the
whole international community, 11 years ago -- obligations about
weapons of mass destruction, obligations about human rights,
obligations about how it treats its own citizens. And so when you put
the question that way, I really, with all due respect, have to answer
it in another way.
QUESTION: Well, if he does not agree, if he -- I mean, if he continues
to say no to the United States and to the United Nations, what is
going to be the next step?
MR. GROSSMAN: I believe that obviously it's the presidents and the
heads of our countries to decide. But what we are saying is that this
is a challenge not to the United States, but to the whole
international community, to the Security Council, to the United
Nations. I think one of the most interesting sentences that our
President has been using these past few days is to say this will be
the United Nations or the League of Nations. And that doesn't matter
just for America; it matters for Greece and for many other countries
as well.
QUESTION: Do you expect the Europeans to follow you in Iraq, because
they followed you in Afghanistan? Now they seem like they don't want
to go to a new war (inaudible).
MR. GROSSMAN: With respect, sir, I think the question of whether to
follow us is not quite the way to put it. The Europeans made their own
choice about what to do in Afghanistan. We're very glad, not to have
them following us there, but to have them with us there. And they'll
make their own choice about the future as well.
What we have been saying is that this threat that comes from Iraq is a
threat not just to the United States, but to Europeans and to Greece,
to all the countries in the region. So this is not about following;
this is about joining to ensure that Iraqis meet their obligations.
QUESTION: All right, sir. Do you have any proof that Saddam Hussein
has biological weapons, and do you have evidence that he is going to
use them against America's allies in the region?
MR. GROSSMAN: I think since you and I are speaking on a day when the
British have issued their very comprehensive report on Saddam's
weapons of mass destruction, we believe that he has these instruments
of destruction, and has the intent to get them. That, sir, it seems to
me, is the whole story of the past 11 years. This is like a criminal
who says, I don't want you to come look at my house. Well, why not?
And I think logically people have to conclude that the reason is that
there is something there to hide.
QUESTION: Sir, you have the same evidence like the British that Saddam
is going to attack the British bases in Cyprus, is going to attack
Turkey, he can attack Greece?
MR. GROSSMAN: Again, don't forget, Saddam Hussein has been a leader
who has used chemical weapons not only on his own population but on
another country, so we think he intends to acquire these weapons. Our
whole purpose is to have him comply with Security Council resolutions
so you and I and people of the United States and the people of Greece
don't ever have to face the question of whether he will use them or
not.
QUESTION: So the decision is with this way or the other way is to
finish with the problem, avoid the problem of Iraq, ignore the problem
of Saddam Hussein?
MR. GROSSMAN: Sir, the decision is to have Iraq comply with its
obligations to the international community, and that means not
inspections, but disarmament; it means not rhetoric, but action, so
that Greece and the United States and other countries in the region
are not threatened.
QUESTION: Sir, in a total war that if there is an attack against
Saddam Hussein, the Kurds are going to take a preventative (inaudible)
and announce a state. What is your theory on that?
MR. GROSSMAN: Our thinking is absolutely clear; that is, we oppose an
independent state of Northern Iraq; we oppose the break up of Iraq; we
favor completely the territorial integrity of Iraq. We have made that
clear to our Turkish allies, to the world at large, and also to the
Kurdish parties with whom we have good contact and good relations.
QUESTION: I want to (inaudible) how was -- how has America changed
after September 11th (inaudible) the world, how it changed?
MR. GROSSMAN: Let me first of all talk about the world, because I
think the world has changed a great deal. I believe the way the world
has changed is that all around the world now there are no more excuses
made for terrorism. It used to be that we would hear that this person
is a freedom fighter, this person has a cause, this person grew up in
a broken home. Now people say no, terrorism is just wrong. And when
you see all the activity in this world, at the United Nations, at
NATO, bilaterally between Greece and the United States, people are
saying no to terrorism. And I believe that's a very great achievement.
And if I'm right in that regard, I'll simply congratulate the Greek
people and the Greek Government on the spectacular success you've all
had with November 17. I think this is a wonderful contribution to the
war on terrorism.
When you ask me, sir, how the United States has changed, I believe the
United States has changed because we have realized that terrorism can
strike us at home. We have realized that we have a purpose in this
world, and that that is to help other countries and be with other
countries in this fight against terrorism. It has made people, I
think, in America more patriotic. It has made people recognize that we
have a great country that is worth defending. It has made people more
interested in their families. I think we've had all the human
reactions that you would expect to September 11th.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) that day? You were in the State Department?
MR. GROSSMAN: Yes, I was here. Secretary Powell, as you remember, was
in Lima, Peru, so Deputy Secretary Armitage and I were here. And I
tried my very best to support him and the President throughout the
day. We were obviously frightened. We were confused. From my windows
you can see the Pentagon, so we saw the airplane hit the Pentagon. So
you can imagine for all of us we were concerned. But we went back to
work. We felt that the most important thing we could do was support
the President and Vice President in response to that day. So I spent
my day here trying very hard to do whatever I could to support the
United States and our allies.
QUESTION: Do you agree that we are not safe anywhere in the world
anymore?
MR. GROSSMAN: Well, I think you always have to keep your eyes open and
be prudent, but I think what Secretary Powell has said -- I love this
quotation -- is that you have to be careful, you have to be prudent,
but you can't be terrified. And we want to be a country that welcomes
immigrants, welcomes students, welcomes journalists, and we are that
country. America can be graded that way and still be careful and still
guard our borders and our homeland. So we want to be safe but we don't
want to be terrified, and I don't think we are terrified.
QUESTION: I want to ask a question given (inaudible) the Greek
terrorism. Are you really satisfied with the job that the Greek
Government (inaudible) elimination of the November 17?
MR. GROSSMAN: Absolutely. We think what the Greek Government, the
Greek authorities, the Greek people have done in this regard is
admirable. The fact that after all of these years an organization that
attacked us, that attacked the British and others, has finally been
broken up after all of that effort you made, that we made, and we
sometimes make together, I think it's a wonderful development
(inaudible).
QUESTION: But what is the next phase of this process now? What do you
expect from the Greeks?
MR. GROSSMAN: It's now a matter for the Greek justice system, so I
wouldn't have any comment on cases that are in court. But if there are
still November 17 people and cells out there, we would hope that
together, following the leadership of Greece, we would be able to wrap
up the rest of this organization. I know that when I saw the Foreign
Minister in New York a week or so ago, he said we were making great
progress in this regard. So on the area of further investigation, you
can count on us. In the area of the Greek justice system, that is a
matter for Greece.
QUESTION: You believe now that we are going to have a safe Olympics?
MR. GROSSMAN: I had always believed you were going to have safe
Olympics because you all were focused and were going to work on that
very, very hard.
QUESTION: On Cyprus, on October 3rd and 4th, (inaudible) New York. Are
you optimistic? I mean, do you think that we are going to see a
solution soon?
MR. GROSSMAN: Well, I hope so. When you ask me if I'm optimistic, I've
always thought of myself as a realistic person. We support the efforts
of the United Nations Secretary General. We support everything he is
doing to try to bring these two leaders and parties together. What
President Clerides does and what Mr. Denktash does I think is very
important and helped by the Secretary General. So we very much look
forward to his meetings in New York, and I most fervently wish that it
would come to some successful resolution.
QUESTION: And for the foreign ministers of Greece and Cyprus, they
told you that they're afraid that it's going to get crisis (inaudible)
if the accession (inaudible) going to go (inaudible). Do you think
that we are going to see a crisis in the region because of the -- this
(inaudible) accession?
MR. GROSSMAN: No, sir. Obviously, Mr. Papandreou and Mr. Kasoulides
can speak for themselves, but I would describe the conversations that
I've had with both of them in New York as kind of the reverse of what
you said, which is that all of us felt that there are a number of
opportunities that intersect at the end of this year. Consider, as you
say, the Cyprus talks in October, and that the European Union will
make a statement about aspirants, including Turkey, on the 9th of
October. The Turkish election will come on the 3rd of November, and
then of course the meeting of the European Union in Copenhagen on the
12th of December. I believe that if we all are smart and we're
creative, then we can use this time all together to create not a
crisis but a big opportunity for the European Union, for Greece, for
Cyprus, and very much for Turkey as well.
QUESTION: If there is no solution, do you still support the accession
of Cyprus to European Union?
MR. GROSSMAN: Well, that's too many "ifs" for me at the beginning. Let
me just say that our policy all along has been to support the
accession of Cyprus because we believe that the accession process is a
very important helper into this. It issomething that has added to it.
It is something that makes people want to come forward with a
solution. So we support the Secretary General, we support the Helsinki
decision of 1999, and we support Cyprus's accession to the European
Union.
QUESTION: The last question I have is what is the status of
Greek-American relations now? It seems to me that there are no
problems with it, eh?
MR. GROSSMAN: I can't think of one. We think Greek-American relations
are in wonderful shape. We are well represented by our two
ambassadors, yours here and ours in Greece. We see many things exactly
the same way. Our foreign ministers work together. Our presidents work
together. And so we're very pleased with the status and the warmth and
the incredible ties between Greece and the United States.
QUESTION: When do you plan to go to Greece?
MR. GROSSMAN: In November, sir. I've been invited, actually, by a
lovely group, the chamber of commerce, to give a speech, and I'm
hoping to meet that commitment.
QUESTION: Mr. Grossman, thank you very much.
MR. GROSSMAN: It's my pleasure.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)