13 November 1998
TRANSCRIPT: SECSTATE ALBRIGHT INTERVIEW WITH CHARLIE ROSE
(Says Saddam Hussein "needs no additional warnings") (6050) New York -- "Time is running out" for Saddam Hussein, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said November 11 in an interview on PBS-TV's "The Charlie Rose Show." "What Saddam wants to do are two things that are incompatible. He wants sanctions to be lifted and he wants to have the ability to retain his weapons of mass destruction. He can't have it both ways. Weapons of mass destruction are too threatening to his neighbors, to the stability of the region and to us." Albright said Saddam needs to reverse his decision to cease cooperating with UNSCOM and "let the inspectors do their jobs -- so that then the UN can do a comprehensive review of where the sanctions regime is." The Secretary said that while a diplomatic option is preferable, if he does not comply "we are also prepared to use force." "Also, we are saying -- making very clear -- that he needs no additional warnings," Albright stressed. .................. Following is the State Department transcript: (Begin transcript U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Office of the Spokesman For Immediate Release November 13, 1998 98/852 INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE K. ALBRIGHT ON PBS -TV "THE CHARLIE ROSE SHOW" WITH CHARLIE ROSE New York, New York November 11, l998 MR. ROSE: Madeleine Albright is the 64th Secretary of State and the first woman to hold that position in the US history. She holds office at a particularly momentous time. As the Clinton administration's principal foreign policy envoy, she is negotiating some of the defining issues of our time. She came to the US at age eleven as a refugee from Czechoslovakia, she earned a scholarship to Wellsley College and follow her father's path into international relations. After Ph.D. from Columbia University she became involved in democratic politics. From 1992 to 1996, she served as United States Ambassador to the United Nations. She has been Secretary of State for the entire second term of the Clinton administration and I am pleased to have her back on this broadcast. Welcome back. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Great to be with you, Charlie. MR. ROSE: It's a pleasure to have you here. Let me talk first about Iraq. Tell me where we are, and what demands we're making of the Iraqi regime? SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, the demands are really very simple, because they are the demands of the international community, which is that he comply with the Security Council resolutions that were imposed at the end of the Gulf War. And what has happened was that he decided that he would not cooperate with UNSCOM, the group of inspectors, and they have now left, and so we are asking again -- telling him -- that he needs to reverse that decision and comply -- let the inspectors do their jobs -- so that then the UN can do a comprehensive review of where the sanctions regime is. MR. ROSE: How long does he have? SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we've been at this a long time. We have worked diplomatically to get him to understand this, and we think that he does not need any further warnings. MR. ROSE: And our options are what? SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I mean, all the options are on the table. The President has spoken today in a Veterans Memorial Service basically saying that we prefer a diplomatic option. But if he does not comply, we are also prepared to use force. What Saddam wants to do are two things that are incompatible. He wants sanctions to be lifted and he wants to have the ability to retain his weapons of mass destruction. He can't have it both ways. Weapons of mass destruction are too threatening to his neighbors, to the stability of the region and to us. MR. ROSE: Listening to Iraqi officials, they seem to say, we don't believe the sanctions will ever be eliminated. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, it's very simple. I mean, they are the ones that are not complying. There is a regime of sanctions that has existed that the entire international community has backed. That's what's so interesting, Charlie. In the last year -- again -- the international coalition has made very clear that he has to abide by the Security Council resolutions that allow for inspections. He had asked for a comprehensive review. We all agree that he should have a comprehensive review. But we can't go into that mode until he reverses his decisions. So we have to see whether we will remove sanctions. We can't do anything. He has thrown away the key to the system by not allowing UNSCOM to do its inspections. MR. ROSE: The US is prepared to use force with or without Security Council approval. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we believe that we have authority to use force already, and that is something that we have said over the years. Most recently, the Security Council has again restated that if he does not comply, there will be the severest consequences. But we have never questioned our right to use force. MR. ROSE: No one is prepared to go to Baghdad to negotiate with him -- not the Secretary General, not you -- no one else is engaging in negotiations, or plans to engage in negotiations at this moment. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I mean, there's nothing to negotiate. This is very clear. When Kofi Annan was there earlier this year, they worked out a Memorandum of Understanding that set up a system for compliance, a way that there would be teams that went in; and he is not living up to the agreement that he signed himself. There's nothing to negotiate. MR. ROSE: So he either allows inspectors back in to inspect all the facilities that might be contain either nuclear, biological or chemical capacity to wage war, or United States will exercise its options, which may include force. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: What is correct here is that he -- there was an understanding worked out. The Security Council only ten days ago sent him a letter, in which it was very clear that a comprehensive review would take place if and when he reversed his decision. That is on the table. If he does not do that, then we have said that all options are on the table. The President has said today that he prefers a diplomatic solution to this, i.e., that Saddam accepts what has been laid out to him by the diplomatic community; reverse your decision, come to the Security Council, we'll do a comprehensive review. MR. ROSE: But how crucial is timing. In other words, as your spokesman has said and others have pointed out, time is of the essence, because of his capacity to rebuild the capability when the inspectors are not there. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we have said that time is running out, but we have not set any deadline. Also, we are saying -- making very clear -- that he needs no additional warnings. MR. ROSE: The French, the Russians, the Egyptians, the Saudis, are prepared to support America's use of force if it becomes necessary and if he doesn't change his policy that was enunciated on October 31st .... SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I don't want to speak on their behalf, but they have made very clear -- especially the French and Russians who are on the Security Council -- that they are also fed up with him, in terms of him not complying, not rescinding that resolution. They voted unanimously to send that letter -- previously on other resolutions -- that there would be the severest consequences. So we are all on track. In a recent trip Secretary Cohen and Under Secretary Pickering took to the region, we believe that the Saudis and the Egyptians are very much in agreement with the fact that Saddam Hussein has created this crisis. MR. ROSE: But there is a difference between agreeing that he's created the crisis, and that there's a crisis, and agreeing with what the solution to the crisis is, or specifically the use of force. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think that they, as we, would prefer a diplomatic solution. We believe that they will support us in a way that is necessary if indeed we do use force. MR. ROSE: What can force achieve? SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, the whole problem here, Charlie, that we're trying to do, is to deal with the problem of this man who insists on preserving or being able to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction. He is one of the few people in the history of the world that has used chemical weapons against his own people. So this is not kind of a theoretical issue as to whether he's prepared to use these weapons; he has. So we consider his ability to have them and reconstitute them a threat to his neighbors and to us. So the purpose , if we were to use force , would be to significantly degrade his ability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction and to make sure that he cannot threaten his neighbors. MR. ROSE: Can we do that without inflicting serious and significant casualties on the Iraqi people? SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, let me just say that all of this -- I'm not prepared to discuss any operational aspects of this -- but obviously we are concerned about the Iraqi people. They are the victims of this, the victims of Saddam Hussein. You know, a lot of people blame the United States for the fact that Iraqi people are hungry or suffering because of the sanctions. The truth is the blame is on Saddam Hussein. He is the one that has prevented them from living a normal, decent life and the US worked very hard in order to make sure that he would have enough oil to sell for food and medicine so that he would have no excuse here. But obviously we are concerned about civilian casualties, that's something that we always worry about. MR. ROSE: It is clearly unacceptable for Saddam Hussein to have weapons of mass destruction of any kind -- chemical, biological, or nuclear. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: He made a commitment at the end of the Gulf War to get rid of them. This was part of the whole cease-fire agreement. And because he has used them before and because he has threatened the region and because we do not believe in his peaceful intentions, we do think it is unacceptable for him -- the president just said it very clearly -- he can't have it both ways. He can't have sanctions lifted and have the weapons of mass destruction. MR. ROSE: And there is a clear guarantee to him that in fact if he eliminates the weapons of mass destruction, the sanctions will be lifted. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, there's a guarantee that if he rescinds his decision, there will be a comprehensive review of the whole sanctions. There are sanctions that have to do with the weapons of mass destruction and there are sanctions that have to do with whether he returns Kuwaiti property, how he deals with his people in the north and the south, whether he accounts for Kuwaiti prisoners of war. This is one of those things that Chairman Butler has gone there in order to lay out a road map for him. There are ways that he -- there's a path for him here -- but in order to start down that path, he has to go back on the decision that he made. MR. ROSE: When you remind them of sanctions, and that sanctions will be eliminated if in fact they meet these criteria, the first thing they say is, your Secretary of State said that America would never allow sanctions to be lifted as long as Saddam Hussein was in power. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: What I have said is basically that he is certainly not somebody that we trust, can work with.I've said that we would be willing and look forward to working with a subsequent regime. But I think the point here is Saddam Hussein is in charge of that country in the clearest possible way. He has the ability to disclose what he has and come into compliance with, not rules that the United States has made up, but that the international community has put on him and that he agreed to. Charlie, he agreed to all of these ; he was supposed to get rid of his weapons of mass destruction in a very short period of time after the Gulf War. He has not done that; he has fooled people; he has lied. It was not until the defection of his son-in-law that we found out more about his various programs, and UNSCOM managed to destroy more weapons than had been destroyed during the Gulf War. So the bottom line is, he is lying to the international community, and he wants us to believe that he is not. I think that's not acceptable. MR. ROSE: And the international community gets it -- the French get it, and the Russians get it -- who've been in part sympathetic to him in the Security Council. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think they have lost patience with him, also. MR. ROSE: What do you think is going through his head -- I realize that's an impossible task -- but the notion of what gamble is he making? Is he making the gamble as he did when he made the agreement with the Secretary General of the United Nations -- I will satisfy them now and then I'll kick them out later and then that would relieve the pressure if I make a deal now, and then once the pressure's off and the American forces go away, I'll then go back and kick them out and get back to building up my capacity.... SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: It's very hard to get inside his head. I mean he does not think the way most of us do. I believe that he wishes to remain a regional power and that he believes that his power is based on having these horrendous weapons. He wants to make us -- he wants to pass the blame to us. That is part of what he's doing -- you know it's my fault or it's the UN's fault, or it's the president's fault -- the bottom line is it's his fault. He is the one who invaded another country; he is the one who used chemical weapons against his own people, the Kurds; and he is the one who is now lying about what he has. So he needs to accept responsibility, and I think he is trying desperately not to. MR. ROSE: And the game is up. SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: It is. I mean, we said that we are prepared to act here. He doesn't need any more warnings. ....................... (End transcript)
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