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13 November 1998

TRANSCRIPT: SECSTATE ALBRIGHT PBS-TV INTERVIEW ON IRAQ, NOV. 12

(Secretary says "diplomacy" can't go on indefinitely) (2610)
Washington -- Secretary of State Madeleine Albright says that if
Saddam Hussein rescinds his decision about not cooperating with UNSCOM
"then we can continue down the road of trying to have this
comprehensive review, which the Security Council offered, and see
where that leads us. But he is the one that has to agree that UNSCOM
can come in and do its job."
In an interview November 12 on PBS-TV's "The News Hour with Jim
Lehrer," Albright noted that the U.S. has been using diplomacy
"actively for seven years and very actively for the last year" with
Saddam Hussein. But, she said, "this can't go on indefinitely."
The entire Security Council, she said, is very firmly united on one
position, "which is that he has to rescind his decision and then there
will be a comprehensive review."
The Secretary rejected Iraqi deputy prime minister Tariq Aziz's
criticism during a November 12 press conference that the United States
is responsible for the standoff in the region, saying "the Gulf
States, along with Syria and Egypt, made it clear that Saddam Hussein
was solely responsible for what was going on."
"We would look forward to working with a post-Saddam regime. We have
been and will continue actively to work with the opposition groups,"
Albright said. "But the purpose of force, if we were to use it, would
be in order to degrade his ability to develop and deliver weapons of
mass destruction and be a threat to the neighborhood."
Following is the State Department transcript:
(begin transcript)
INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT ON PBS-TV "THE NEWS
HOUR WITH JIM LEHRER" WITH MARGARET WARNER, ON THURSDAY, NOV. 12
MS. WARNER:  Welcome, Madame Secretary, thanks for being with us.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT:  It's great to be with you, Margaret.
MS. WARNER: Has the President made a decision yet to attack Iraq and
when?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, the President has all the options, and we
are watching very carefully. We have basically said that this cannot
go on indefinitely. As the President said yesterday, the Iraqis do not
need any further warnings.
MS. WARNER:  Is it possible to turn back at this point?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, if Saddam Hussein complies. The entire
international community is saying to him that he has an obligation to
comply with the Security Council and to rescind his decision about not
cooperating with UNSCOM. If he does that, then we can continue down
the road of trying to have this comprehensive review, which the
Security Council offered, and see where that leads us. But he is the
one that has to agree that UNSCOM can come in and do its job.
MS. WARNER: Now, as you know, Tariq Aziz, the Deputy Prime Minister of
Iraq, had a press conference today. He essentially blamed the United
States for the stand-off; he said they've been trying to cooperate for
seven and a half years; there's never any light at the end of the
tunnel, there's just another tunnel; and the Clinton Administration,
as he put it, just doesn't want to see sanctions lifted, period.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: It's quite typical of the way that they've been
operating. They will not accept responsibility themselves for what is
going on.
They are the ones that have had the opportunity since the end of the
Gulf War to comply. This has been one of the clearest sanctions
regimes, the clearest road maps that have ever existed in terms of how
to get from point (a) to point (b). It's perfectly simple for them to
say that UNSCOM needs to come in and do its job. It is not the US'
fault; it's not the UN's fault. It's Saddam Hussein's fault.
What they've been trying, Margaret, is specifically always blaming
everybody else. Now they have to take responsibility themselves. You
know what's very interesting -- today the Gulf States, along with
Syria and Egypt, made very clear that Saddam Hussein was solely
responsible for what was going on. So even his Arab neighbors are
beginning to see what we are seeing -- that this is his
responsibility.
MS. WARNER: Now, he did say today that -- he put it negatively, but
that no peaceful solution was possible unless the United States
"agreed to the principle of lifting sanctions."
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: You know what this is like -- we have -- basically
it's been written up as to how the sanctions will end. But what he
wants is a guarantee that the sanctions will be lifted before he's
gone through a comprehensive review. It's like somebody going to a
doctor and insisting that he get a clean bill of health, even while
the doctor has been telling him that he's sick and he won't allow the
doctor to continue the exam.
There is no way to give him a guarantee that sanctions will be lifted
if he does not allow UNSCOM -- that is, the doctor -- to do the job.
MS. WARNER: So are there any diplomatic efforts under way now to try
to avert this -- any active diplomacy?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: You know what's important here, Margaret? I think
everybody is focusing on is there any effort at this time to do
diplomacy. I don't think most people realize that we have been doing
diplomacy, so to speak, actively for seven years and very actively for
the last year.
It was in February of this year that Kofi Annan, with our support,
went to Baghdad and agreed to this memorandum of understanding, which
Saddam Hussein violated in six months. After his August decision not
to cooperate with UNSCOM, we didn't use force; we continued to use
diplomacy. Now in October when he said that he wouldn't cooperate --
we have been using diplomacy and using it very long and very hard.
What's happened is that this can't go on indefinitely. But this cry
all of a sudden to use diplomacy is also false.
We have, in fact, been very engaged diplomatically for a year in the
most active way.
MS. WARNER: So you're essentially saying that the United States has
done everything it can diplomatically and if there's going to be
something happen on that track it really has to come from Iraq.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Absolutely. We've made very clear -- but it isn't
just us, Margaret, the whole Security Council, which has been unified
on this for several months now has said that he must rescind his
decision.
The Security Council a year ago October had become divided. But what
Saddam Hussein has done, as a result of his recalcitrant actions, is
to reunite the Security Council. It is now very firmly on one
position, which is that he has to rescind his decision and then there
will be a comprehensive review.
MS. WARNER: So if air strikes are launched, what will be achieved?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, let me just make the following point. There
are people -- nothing -- UNSCOM is not working now. We are very
concerned about what is happening in terms of his weapons of mass
destruction. He is a threat to the neighborhood; he has actually, as
we know, invaded a country. He is also a threat because he wants to
have and has had these weapons of mass destruction. If UNSCOM could
work, we could assure ourselves that he would not be able to develop
or deliver those weapons of mass destruction.
So if, in fact, we do take an action of force, it will be designed in
order to degrade his ability develop and deliver the weapons of mass
destruction and prevent him, also, or make it less possible for him to
be a threat in the neighborhood.
MS. WARNER: But if it comes to that, can you confirm reports that
essentially say the Administration at that point -- and essentially
has concluded -- that the inspection regime, for all intents and
purposes, is over?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, the inspection regime has not been working
for eight of the last 12 months. I think one of our concerns is we
can't think that something is working when it is not. That is
dangerous. So we would very much like to have the inspection regime
work. We have great faith in UNSCOM, and find that the statements that
Tariq Aziz made about UNSCOM are ridiculous and unconscionable and
untrue. We would like to see UNSCOM back in.
But in effect -- we have to be frank here -- the regime as a whole has
really not been able to work properly for the last many, many months.
MS. WARNER: So if air strikes achieve what you want them to, to
degrade his weapons-making capability and his overall military
capacity, nonetheless, what is left on the ground? Saddam Hussein is
still in power?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I mean, that is not the objective of this;
although I have said, and so have others many times, that we would
look forward to working with a post-Saddam regime. We have been and
will continue actively to work with the opposition groups.
But the purpose of force, if we were to use it, would be in order to
degrade his ability to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction
and be a threat to the neighborhood.
MS. WARNER: The head of the Special Commission, Richard Butler, and
many other experts in this field have said that really, even after
massive air strikes, a country like Iraq, with the know-how to make
these biological weapons and chemical weapons can really reconstitute
them pretty quickly.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we know that; which is why we think it's
important to have an inspection and verification and then monitoring
regime in there. That is what we've been trying to do for the last
seven years. But if it doesn't work, then we can't fool ourselves into
thinking it's working and relying on it. That's why we are prepared to
have them continue their work; have there be a comprehensive review so
that if Saddam feels that there's no light at the end of the tunnel,
if we do a comprehensive review, that's all he could ask.
MS. WARNER: Yes, but, Madame Secretary, I guess I'm talking now about
after - if that hasn't all worked and we go to air strikes and you
think you've achieved these military goals and the strikes end, it's
sort of then what? I mean, then do you go back again when you think
he's rebuilt, or do you actually think at that point he would welcome
inspectors?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, he might; in which case, we would be
prepared to have a restructure of inspections and a way of operating
that would allow us to do what we had not been able to do before. We
still believe, Margaret, that UNSCOM is the best method for dealing
with the weapons of mass destruction. They, in fact, as you know, over
the seven years destroyed more weapons of mass destruction than the
Gulf War itself did. So they are the best mechanism. What we really
want is for Saddam Hussein to allow UNSCOM to do its job. That is the
best solution to this problem, which is why we want him to rescind his
decision.
We are not just desirous of bombing for the sake of bombing, but the
purpose here is to make sure that he does not have that weapons of
mass destruction capability. The thing to remember, Margaret, is at
the end of the Gulf War, as part of the cease-fire agreement, he
agreed to dismantle all his weapons of mass destruction. That was the
deal he made; and like everything else, he violates his deals.
MS. WARNER: How many Iraqi civilians do you estimate will be killed in
this operation?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I have no answer to that. But I can tell you this
-- we have been, as we look at various options, particularly concerned
about civilian deaths and very concerned that Saddam Hussein will
himself kill people and put them out and then say that we had
something to do with it.
But the bottom line here is that we are very concerned about civilian,
about collateral damage; and we have made that quite clear.
MS. WARNER: Are not many of the facilities you might want to hit in
either residential neighborhoods or in so-called "dual-use" factories
and so on, where it would be pretty hard to avoid hitting civilians?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Margaret, I'm not going to go into any information
about our targets. All I can tell you is this is one of the issues
that President Clinton has very high in his agenda, he's very
concerned about civilian casualties, as are we all. We obviously take
that into consideration.
MS. WARNER: Do you think that the Arab support you mentioned can be
sustained if there are a lot of civilian casualties and there is a
large public outcry?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that everybody is concerned about
what is going on. The Arab support -- I think there's no love lost for
Saddam Hussein. I think they are very concerned about the people of
Iraq; and frankly, as have we been. This somehow Tariq Aziz got wrong
also -- it is thank to the United States that this oil-for-food
program exists. We were the ones that set up the way for them to have
billions of dollars worth of food and medicines; and by the way, food
and medicines were never embargoed. But this allows him to get hard
currency in order to buy food and medicines for his people.
So we care a lot more about the Iraqi people than Saddam Hussein does.
He is the one who is ruining their lives. This again is one of these
things where Saddam Hussein and Tariq Aziz just try to pass the blame
off to somebody else. The sole responsibility for the condition of the
Iraqi people rests with their dictator, Saddam Hussein.
MS. WARNER: Madame Secretary, as I'm sure you know, there's a growing
chorus of voices -- former officials, even some current members of
Congress -- saying there really is no way to contain Saddam Hussein
and this sort of cat-and-mouse game is going to go on indefinitely
unless there's a viable plan for ridding the country of Saddam
Hussein. Do you agree with that?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, let me say when we came into office, we were
left with Saddam Hussein in power. That is how the Gulf War ended, and
the decision was made at that stage. I have said -- and I will repeat
-- that we would look forward to working with a post-Saddam regime,
and we are going to be working even more actively with the opposition
groups. Congress has passed a law, and the President has signed it. We
will be working with them in terms of organizing and assisting them
get themselves organized. We, as I've said, look forward to working
with a post-Saddam regime that will not violate the human rights of
the Iraqi people or threaten the neighbors.
MS. WARNER: But are you saying you expect any effort to remove him or
any successful effort to really come internally?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think that the opposition groups are the
ones that are most interested in pursuing that avenue. We, as I've
said, have been helping them; but we plan to help them more actively.
MS. WARNER: All right, well, Madame Secretary, thanks very much for
being with us.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT:  Thank you, Margaret.
(End transcript)