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23 February 1998

TRANSCRIPT: SECSTATE ALBRIGHT 2/22 "ABC-TV" INTERVIEW ON IRAQ

(Says UNSCOM must maintain operational control) (2800)
Washington -- The only way to solve the crisis with Iraq
diplomatically "is for UNSCOM, the United Nations inspectors, to have
full, unfettered, unconditional access to all the sites that they need
to; and ... the integrity of UNSCOM has to be maintained. They have to
have operational control over the inspections," Secretary Albright
stressed February 22.
In an interview on ABC-TV's "This Week with Sam Donaldson and Cokie
Roberts," the Secretary refused to "pre-judge" an agreement that U.N.
Secretary General Kofi Annan will bring back from Baghdad. "It is
possible that he will come with something we don't like, in which case
we will pursue our national interests. That is what we are determined
to do.
"We believe that the threat of the weapons of mass destruction has to
be diminished; and we believe that the threat that he [Saddam] poses
to his neighbors, and therefore the stability of the Middle East also
has to be in some way removed or diminished. That is what we think is
in our national interests," she stated.
If there is a real diplomatic resolution, Albright said, "I think that
a lot will have done with the fact that we were strong and unified and
that our forces are out there." And if there is no real solution, "we
have a very good plan to significantly diminish his weapons of mass
destruction."
Following is the transcript of the interview:
(For more information on this subject, contact our special Iraq
website at:
http://www.usia.gov/iraq)
(Begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
For Immediate Release
February 23, 1998
INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE ALBRIGHT ON ABC-TV "THIS
WEEK" WITH SAM DONALDSON AND COKIE ROBERTS
February 22, 1998
Washington, D.C.
MR. DONALDSON: Madame Secretary, what can you tell us; what do you
hear from Baghdad?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think we have to wait to see what Kofi
Annan really has to say. I had a very brief conversation with him
yesterday, and he said that the talks were progressing. But it's
really hard to have a serious conversation of that kind from Baghdad
at this time. But we're waiting to see what he brings back.
MR. DONALDSON: Well, now, you've said it a number of times, so has the
President, but let's repeat it, because when his spokesman says, "We
think we can get a deal which we can sell to the Security Council,"
what can they sell?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we have made very clear that the only way to
solve this is for UNSCOM, the United Nations inspectors, to have full,
unfettered, unconditional access to all the sites that they need to;
and that the integrity of UNSCOM has to be maintained. They have to
have operational control over the inspections. That is what we believe
is the only way to solve this problem diplomatically.
MR. DONALDSON: Well, what if there's a time limit that Saddam wants.
Say it's not 60 days, but say it's 180 days, let's say it's a year,
after which he says, then the inspections cease?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, as I said, UNSCOM has to have operational
control. They are the ones that have to make the decisions about the
timing, the duration, what they will be looking for, what they're
doing. They are the eyes and ears of the world; they are the ones that
have done such a terrific job up until now. They have to maintain
operational control.
MR. DONALDSON: One more question along this line. UNSCOM all this time
has found all of these weapons; you said more than was actually
destroyed in the entire Gulf War. Is it realistic that they would say,
well, we think we can do the job in six months or a year?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think that we have to see what they say. We
think that they need to be able to have the kind of unfettered,
unconditional access that we have demanded all of us, the whole
Security Council has demanded that. So let's see what Kofi brings
back. I think it's premature to really make judgments about this.
MS. ROBERTS: You already said that the worst thing would be for him to
come back with a phony solution. Is this do you have any reason to
believe that this is not a phony solution?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we don't know what the solution is. I mean,
we don't know we know what the solution is; we don't know what Kofi
Annan is bringing back. I think that we have to keep insisting on what
we have said, on kind of the bottom line here unfettered,
unconditional access by UNSCOM; and UNSCOM itself having to have its
integrity, no diminution of its power; and they are the ones in
operational control.
But I think it really is premature to see to talk about what he has,
because we don't know. And we expect to be in touch with him, and
he'll be back to report to the Security Council.
MS. ROBERTS: If he comes back with something that is not all of the
things that you have just said, does that put the United States in a
tough position? As it is, all weekend there's been protests in the
Arab world. When you came in here today, there was a little protest
outside of ABC News. Is this if we are in a position saying this isn't
good enough, does it put the United States in a bad light in the rest
of the world?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think, Cokie, what we have to do is be concerned
about our national interests. That is what our job is; that is what
the American people are depending upon us to do. And we believe that
the threat of the weapons of mass destruction has to be diminished;
and we believe that the threat that he poses to his neighbors, and
therefore the stability of the Middle East also has to be in some way
removed or diminished. That is what we think is in our national
interests. We will pursue that; that's what our job is; that's what we
will do.
MS. ROBERTS: His neighbors, though, seem to be not as concerned about
it as we are.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think what you have to do is understand a
little bit more about the neighbors. First of all, they are in the
neighborhood with this bully, and what they say publicly is in some
way tailored to being left there with him. On the other hand, I have
just been there, so has Secretary Cohen, and we both feel satisfied
that we have the support we have from the Arab neighbors.
MR. WILL: Let me continue with what Cokie was perhaps suggesting.
American policy is now held hostage by the Secretary General of the
UN. Can he bring back and agreement satisfying to him and we proceed
in an attack against Iraq in the name of the UN, on the integrity of
its processes, saying we're dissatisfied with something that has
satisfied the Secretary General?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, first of all, we have supported the
Secretary General's trip. He is, after all, the head of the
organization, and somebody who is seeking a diplomatic solution, as
are we. So I don't want to pre-judge what he's going to bring back.
But I do think that we have our own national interests, and we will
pursue that. It is possible that he will come with something we don't
like, in which case we will pursue our national interests. That is
what we are determined to do. But I don't want to pre-judge what he's
bringing back, and I think that the thing we all want the President
wants, we all want is a real diplomatic solution. And if we get one,
George, I think that a lot will have done with the fact that we were
strong and unified and that our forces are out there. But this is
still hypothetical; we have to see what the Secretary General brings
back.
MR. WILL: You said you don't want a phony deal, you don't want a
Potemkin deal. What deal is not inherently Potemkin and phony, given
that he has, in the tent in 1991, in 1996, he's agreed to all the
things we now want him to agree to, it seems, redundantly? He can
always take it back, can he not, when our ships have left?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: No, I mean, I think, first of all, to go back on
the fact that UNSCOM has destroyed more weapons than the Gulf War did,
that it is making progress. I frankly think that the reason that
Saddam got so exercised about going into these particular presidential
sites is that there's clearly something there. He has drawn more
attention to the possibility he has biological and chemical weapons
than anybody.
So we are going to pursue that. If UNSCOM can get back in and do it,
that will be the best solution. If not, we have a military option that
will substantially reduce his weapons of mass destruction threat and
his threat to the neighbors. So I think we're on the right course
here.
MR. WILL: Someone traveling with him this morning made a point this
morning, our time made a point of saying on television, "The Secretary
General can make agreements with any member state." And then he went
on to say, "he can sell this to the UN." If he can make agreements,
will he come back, in effect, with a kind of international law already
made?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: No, I think what he's going to do it is my
understanding he will come back and report to the Security Council,
and then the Security Council will discuss it. We obviously have a
veto there, and we are part of that process. If we don't like it, we
will make that very clear.
MR. WILL: Well, do you expect him to come back and endorse what he's
done, saying, I am satisfied with this?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: It's very hard to say. I mean, if he's satisfied
with it, he will say so. But he may say that he doesn't have what he
wants. I think that he got some we all had long discussions with him
before he went. The permanent members of the Security Council provided
various guidelines for him. He knows what the bottom line is, and he's
out there trying to have discussions with Saddam Hussein on the
subject. It's very hard to pre-judge what he has.
MR. DONALDSON: Well, what if he says, using your words, I don't have
what I want, because I don't have what the Security Council wants, but
it's worth continuing; it's worth continuing the process of
negotiating?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we have not put any artificial deadlines on
this, but we've all said that time is running out. We've said
metaphors are running out, in terms of how much time we have, and
we'll have to see. But I am going to be very realistic about what the
Secretary General brings back. And it may work, in which case I think
that we will be very glad to have UNSCOM back in unfettered,
unconditional, with them in charge. If it doesn't, we have other
options.
MR. DONALDSON: Madame Secretary, it's widely assumed that if he comes
back with something that's not acceptable to the United States and the
Security Council, the President will then move forward immediately
with military action.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I've said, we do not have any artificial
deadlines. We will see where we are. We have the military option. We
have said that it's not either days or months before we use it. We
want to see whether there's a diplomatic solution. We'll see what the
Secretary General has. But I am not going to set any artificial
deadlines.
MR. DONALDSON:  Have you seen the movie, "Wag the Dog?"
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT:  No.
MR. DONALDSON:  You know the plot?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT:  I've heard about the plot.
MR. DONALDSON: With the President who is ridden with scandal, sexual
scandal, gins up a foreign crisis. Now, a lot of Americans look at
that movie and say, yeah.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I can tell you the following. We have been
this crisis started, this particular one, way last fall. There is
nothing artificial to this. And there is no question that we are on a
determined path to make sure that Saddam Hussein abides by Security
Council resolutions. There is nothing artificial in the way that we're
doing this. This has been a long-running crisis, and we will keep our
eye on Saddam Hussein to make sure that he does what he needs to. And
if he doesn't do it diplomatically, we have the military force.
MS. ROBERTS: Has the Secretary General already disrupted the US
timetable for action?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: No, because as I said, there is not artificial
timetable or time line. What we want and we have all said this, the
President on down that we want a diplomatic solution. That is
preferable. We don't want a phony diplomatic solution, but if there is
a genuine, real, diplomatic solution, we'll go that way. If not and,
by the way, and I think if there is one, if there is a diplomatic
solution that's good and real, a lot will be due to the fact that we
have our forces out there, underlining the importance of this.
And if we don't get one, Cokie, we have a very good plan to
significantly diminish his weapons of mass destruction.
MS. ROBERTS: When you say a diplomatic solution, what can be a
solution that's anything but Saddam Hussein crying uncle?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: He has to reverse course. There's no question; he
has to reverse course.
MR. DONALDSON:  And what about
MS. ROBERTS:  And the likelihood of that?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we'll see. We will see. You know what's
interesting is, he has reversed course or backed down any number times
throughout this
MR. WILL:  Precisely the problem.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT:  -- if we are strong and determined.
But George, you say precisely the problem. The bottom line is, we are
inching all the time towards a diminishing his weapons. As I've said
and as the President has said, he has destroyed UNSCOM has destroyed
thousands of weapons as a result of their action.
MR. DONALDSON: You have said that what happened in Columbus, at Ohio
State the other day, was American democracy at work and all of that.
And yet this morning, as Cokie said, when you came here, outside of
our studios, people were shouting and screaming, "We don't want your
racist war." Don't you have to pay attention to public opinion, Madame
Secretary?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, first of all, I think that we do pay
attention to public opinion. But this is not an issue that is going to
be decided by public opinion polls. This is a national security issue.
We are going to do everything we can to explain our policy to the
American people. But in the end, the President is going to make this
decision based on national security grounds.
MR. DONALDSON: But if you don't have the public with you, as
demonstrated during Vietnam, the President has no power --
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, first of all, there is no comparison here.
There were a couple of dozen hecklers in a baseball I mean, in a
basketball court. I have, as a professor, been in enough basketball
courts to know how noise resounds there. So I think that there are
people who don't want us to do this. We want to have a diplomatic
solution.
What bothered me most about that event was that there were people with
really serious questions, and we didn't get a chance to give our full
answers.
MR. DONALDSON: As a professor, do you resent it when your students
speak up and sort of contradict you?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: No, I love it, and I -- I really do. I decided
that was the time that I had the best students. But I've had a lot of
practice in shows like this, and clearly I need more, so here I am
(Laughter.)
MR. DONALDSON: Well, the only hecklers you had today were the three of
us. Thank you very much, Professor, and Secretary
MS. ROBERTS:  We're being polite, aren't we?
(Laughter.)
MR. DONALDSON: Secretary Albright, I hope you'll come back. Thank you.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT:  I will. Thanks a lot.
(End transcript)