DATE=02/24/99
TYPE=ON THE LINE
NUMBER=1-00717
TITLE=THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION: TWENTY YEARS LATER
EDITOR=OFFICE OF POLICY - 619-0037
CONTENT=
THEME: UP, HOLD UNDER AND FADE
ANNCR: ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES
POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES.
THIS WEEK, "THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION: TWENTY YEARS
LATER." HERE IS YOUR HOST, ROBERT REILLY.
HOST HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE.
THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION MARKED ITS TWENTIETH
ANNIVERSARY THIS FEBRUARY. THE REVOLUTION ENDED
THE REIGN OF SHAH MOHAMMAD REZA PAHLAVI IN
FEBRUARY 1979 AND BROUGHT TO POWER THE AYATOLLAH
RUHOLLAH KHOMEINI. KHOMEINI'S FORCES MADE IRAN
AN ISLAMIC STATE RULED BY SHI'ITE CLERICS. IN
NOVEMBER 1979, ISLAMIC REVOLUTIONARIES SEIZED
THE AMERICAN EMBASSY IN TEHRAN AND HELD UNITED
STATES DIPLOMATS HOSTAGE FOR MORE THAN A YEAR.
SINCE THEN, THE CLERICAL RULERS HAVE REPRESSED
HUMAN RIGHTS WITHIN IRAN AND SPONSORED TERRORISM
ABROAD. IN 1997, THE PEOPLE OF IRAN SHOWED
THEIR DESIRE FOR CHANGE BY ELECTING MOHAMMED
KHATAMI AS PRESIDENT. MR. KHATAMI HAS MADE
ENCOURAGING REMARKS ABOUT EASING REPRESSION AND
OPENING UP TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, INCLUDING
THE UNITED STATES. HOWEVER, IT IS UNCLEAR
WHETHER ANY SIGNIFICANT LIBERALIZATION WILL BE
ALLOWED BY THE CLERICAL REGIME.
JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS IRANIAN REVOLUTION
ARE THREE EXPERTS: DAVID WURMSER IS RESIDENT
FELLOW AT THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE AND
AUTHOR OF THE BOOK, TYRANNY'S ALLY: AMERICA'S
FAILURE TO DEFEAT SADDAM HUSSEIN. KENNETH
TIMMERMAN IS PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER, THE
IRAN BRIEF AND A CONTRIBUTING EDITOR TO READER'S
DIGEST MAGAZINE. AND AHMAD REZAI IS THE SON OF
THE FORMER COMMANDER OF IRAN'S REVOLUTIONARY
GUARDS. MR. REZAI SERVED IN THE REVOLUTIONARY
GUARDS BEFORE DEFECTING TO THE UNITED STATES
LAST YEAR.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
HOST: DAVID WURMSER, IN YOUR RECENT BOOK YOU HAVE A
CHAPTER ON THE IRANIAN REVOLUTION. PERHAPS YOU
COULD BEGIN BY TELLING US WHAT WERE THE INITIAL
OBJECTIVES OF THE REVOLUTION, AND HAVE THEY BEEN
MET TWENTY YEARS LATER?
WURMSER: WELL, I THINK THERE WERE TWO BASIC OBJECTIVES TO
THE REVOLUTION. THE FIRST ONE WAS THE
INSTALLATION OF SHARIA-PATH ISLAMIC LAW, FOR THE
GUIDING OF SOCIETY, POLITICS, CULTURE,
EVERYTHING, IN IRAN.
HOST: WAS THAT UNIVERSALLY GREETED AT THE TIME?
WURMSER: NO, IT WASN'T UNIVERSALLY GREETED. THERE WAS A
BROAD COALITION THAT BROUGHT THIS GOVERNMENT TO
POWER AND, WITH TIME, THIS FACTION OF THE
GOVERNMENT -- NAMELY THE ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST
GOVERNMENT -- TOOK OVER AND REMOVED ALL THE
OTHER ELEMENTS THAT HAD COOPERATED IN THE
COALITION TO BRING ABOUT THIS GOVERNMENT,
INCLUDING COMMUNISTS, A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE.
[REGARDING] THE FIRST OBJECTIVE, I'D SAY, ON A
SUPERFICIAL LEVEL THEY'VE SUCCEEDED. SHARIA IS
THE LAW OF THE LAND. IT GUIDES CULTURE,
POLITICS, FILM, EVERYTHING. THE SECOND THING
THEY WERE AFTER WAS POWER AND A CONCENTRATION OF
CENTRALIZED POWER. AND IT WAS AN UNPRECEDENTED
SUCCESS IN THAT REGARD AS WELL. ALL
INSTITUTIONS IN IRAN ARE ESSENTIALLY FUNCTIONS
OF THE CENTRALIZED POWER OF THE STATE. NOW,
HAVING SAID THAT, ON A BROADER SCALE, THE
ISLAMIC REVOLUTION HAS BEEN A TERRIBLE FAILURE.
RELIGION, THOUGH ENFORCED AS THE LAW OF THE LAND
IN IRAN, PROBABLY IS MORE HATED, MORE DESPISED,
AND LESS GOVERNING IN THE MINDS OF IRANIANS THAN
EVER BEFORE. IT IS SEEN AS PART OF THE PROBLEM.
THEY'VE ESSENTIALLY CORRUPTED THE RELIGION BY
BRINGING IT INTO POWER. AND AS FAR AS HAVING
POWER, YES, THEY CONTROL ALL THE INSTRUMENTS OF
STATE, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SO FORTH, BUT NEVER
BEFORE HAS AN IRANIAN SOCIETY BEEN AS
DISGRUNTLED AND DISPLEASED WITH ITS LEADERSHIP
AS NOW.
HOST: KEN TIMMERMAN, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT
CHARACTERIZATION OF THE REVOLUTION AND ITS
RESULTS?
TIMMERMAN: I THINK IT'S TRUE THAT THE REVOLUTION HAS FAILED
IN ITS PRIMARY OBJECTIVES. IN ADDITION TO WHAT
DAVID WAS SAYING, I'D SAY THERE WAS A TREMENDOUS
EMPHASIS ON GAINING IRAN'S INDEPENDENCE. THE
CLERICAL REVOLUTIONARIES CLAIM THAT IRAN WAS
BASICALLY CONTROLLED BY THE UNITED STATES, WHICH
WASN'T TRUE, BUT BE THAT AS IT MAY. THEY SAY WE
HAVE TO MAKE IRAN INDEPENDENT AGAIN. AND TWENTY
YEARS AFTER THE REVOLUTION, IRAN IS DEEPLY IN
DEBT. THEY NEVER WERE BEFORE. THEY HAVE FORGED
A STRATEGIC ALLIANCE WITH RUSSIA, WHICH IS
NOTHING LIKE THE RELATIONSHIP THEY HAD WITH THE
UNITED STATES BEFORE. THE RUSSIANS ARE IN THERE
RUNNING ALL THE ARMS FACTORIES. THEY ARE
SELLING WEAPONS. THEY ARE IN THE UNIVERSITIES
TEACHING. THE ECONOMY ITSELF IS IN SHAMBLES.
THE OIL INDUSTRY IS DECREPIT. IT HASN'T BEEN
MAINTAINED OR REPAIRED IN EIGHTEEN YEARS. THERE
IS WIDESPREAD DISSATISFACTION. THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING IS WHAT DAVID SAID -- IS THE WAY
YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE TURNED AWAY FROM ISLAM. SO
THIS REVOLUTION THAT WAS MADE IN THE NAME OF
ISLAM. OR THIS REGIME THAT WAS MADE IN THE NAME
OF ISLAM, HAS ALIENATED YOUNG PEOPLE TOTALLY
FROM ISLAM.
HOST: WELL, LETS HEAR FROM A YOUNG PERSON FROM IRAN.
MR. REZAI, YOU ARE CLOSE TO TWENTY-THREE YEARS
OLD, THEREFORE YOU ARE A CHILD OF THE IRANIAN
REVOLUTION FOR ITS PAST TWENTY YEARS. WHAT DO
YOU THINK OF ITS RESULTS AND WHAT DO PEOPLE OF
YOUR GENERATION INSIDE IRAN TODAY THINK OF THE
REVOLUTION?
REZAI: IT MEANS THEY ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL WITH US. WE
DON'T BELIEVE IN THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT. WE
BELIEVE THAT THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC IS A TERRORIST
REGIME, THE BIGGEST TERRORIST GOVERNMENT IN THE
WORLD. WE DON'T WANT TO BE CONSIDERED
TERRORISTS, OR TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH
TERRORISM. WE WANT TO BE FREE. WE WANT TO HAVE
A GOOD LIFE, DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM. BUT WE HAVE NO
FREEDOM IN IRAN.
HOST: NO FREEDOM IN IRAN?
REZAI: NO FREEDOM. THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC HAS TAKEN OUR
LIVES AND SACRIFICED US TO THEIR GOALS.
HOST: THEY TAKE YOUR LIFE?
REZAI: YES, THEY WANT US TO WORK FOR THEM, TO CARRY OUT
THEIR PROGRAMS, THEIR TERRORIST JOBS AROUND THE
WORLD. THEY WANT TO CONTROL ISRAEL. THEY WANT
TO CONTROL MUSLIM COUNTRIES. THEY WANT TO HAVE
POWER OVER THE WORLD LIKE HITLER..
HOST: LET ME ASK YOU, THOUGH, ABOUT MR. KHATAMI
BECAUSE HE REPRESENTED THE HOPED FOR CHANGE.
SEVENTY PERCENT OF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE VOTED FOR
PRESIDENT KHATAMI. WHO IS HE? DOES HE HAVE ANY
POWER TO BRING ABOUT THE FREEDOM THE YOUNG
IRANIAN PEOPLE HOPED FOR?
REZAI: MR. KHATAMI HAS TWO FACES. TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD
HE IS A GOOD MAN. HE WANTS DEMOCRACY. HE IS
POPULAR WITH IRANIANS. THAT IS THE IMAGE THE
IRANIAN GOVERNMENT WANTS TO PORTRAY. BUT HIS
OTHER FACE IS FOR INSIDE IRAN. THERE, EVERYBODY
KNOWS HE IS FROM KHOMEINI'S FAMILY. EVERYBODY
KNOWS HE IS WORKING FOR THE CLERICAL REGIME, NOT
AGAINST THEM. HE IS A PART OF THE IRANIAN
GOVERNMNET. HE IS A MULLAH. HE IS TRYING TO
REBUILD KHOMEINI'S ISLAMIC REPUBLIC, TO MAKE IT
STRONGER. THAT IS HIS PRIMARY PLEASURE.
HOST: HIS DESIRE, HIS OBJECTIVE?
REZAI: YES.
HOST: IS TO WHAT?
REZAI: HE HAS TWO GOALS, IN FACT. FIRST, HE WANTS TO
FOOL YOUNG PEOPLE. YOUNG PEOPLE ARE AGAINST THE
REGIME. KHATAMI WANTS TO MAKE THEM BELIEVE HE
IS CHANGING THINGS. BUT HE NOT. HIS SECOND
GOAL IS TO REVEAL PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THE
REGIME TO THE GOVERNMENT, BY MAKING THEM BELIEVE
THEY CAN SPEAK OPENLY. FOR EXAMPLE, HE SAYS
IRAN NEEDS DEMOCRACY, AND SO SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE
HIM. THEY SAY, YES, THIS IS OUR IDEA. AND THEN
THE SECURITY SERVICES KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND CAN
KILL THEM VERY EASILY.
HOST: SO, THIS IS A WAY TO DRAW OUT THE OPPOSITION, TO
MAKE THEM MORE IDENTIFIABLE, AND THEN, SUPPRESS
THEM?
REZAI: THIS IS KHATAMI'S OBJECTIVE. HE CAME TO POWER
AND SAID, EVERYBODY NEEDS FREEDOM, EVERYBODY
NEEDS DEMOCARCY. AND BECAUSE IRANIAN PEOPLE
REALLY WANT FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, AND BELIEVED
HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH, THEY AGREED. AND THEN
THE REGIME KILLS THEM. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO
THE FOROUHARS [DARIOUSH FOROUHAR AND HIS WIFE,
PARVANEH]. THEY BELIEVED THEY COULD SPEAK OUT,
AND THEY WERE KILLED BY THE REGIIME.
HOST: I SEE. LET ME ASK DAVID WURMSER ABOUT THAT. DO
YOU THINK THIS IS A CHARADE, THE EXPRESSED FOR
HOPES IN MR. KHATAMI AND HIS OWN STATEMENTS THAT
WOULD LEAD ONE TO EXPECT THERE MIGHT BE SOME
KIND OF LIBERALIZATION IN IRAN?
WURMSER: WELL, I'M NOT SURE IT'S COMPLETELY A CHARADE,
BUT I DO THINK IT WOULD BE A DANGEROUS
MISPERCEPTION ON OUR PART TO REST TOO MUCH HOPE
ON KHATAMI, INASMUCH AS HE'S A POSITIVE FORCE,
HE'S A POSITIVE FORCE ONLY, ONLY, BECAUSE HE WAS
THE REFLECTION OF THE REGIME'S BOWING TO THE
PRESSURES FROM THE STREET. AND IF WE IN THE
UNITED STATES FORGET IT'S THOSE PRESSURES WE
NEED TO BE WORKING WITH AND TRY TO CREATE OUT OF
KHATAMI AN INDEPENDENT FORCE WHO HAS SOME
INDEPENDENT REASON FOR BEING MODERATE THEN,
WE'RE GOING TO BLOW IT. ESSENTIALLY, AT THAT
POINT, KHATAMI WILL BELIEVE HE'S POWERFUL
ENOUGH. AND YES, HE DOES WORK WITH THE REGIME,
HE'S WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE REGIME. ITS A
GOOD COP-BAD COP PHENOMENON THAT WE SEE WITH
KHATAMI AND [AYATOLLAH ALI] KHAMENEI AND SO
FORTH, SO AS LONG AS WE STICK WITH THE FORCES ON
THE STREET AND CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THOSE
FORCES AND CONTINUE WITH THE POLICIES THAT LED
TO THOSE PRESSURES, THEN KHATAMI CAN BE A USEFUL
INSTRUMENT FOR BRINGING THE REGIME DOWN. BUT
THE MOMENT WE FORGET THE REGIME NEEDS TO BE
BROUGHT DOWN IN TOTO, AND WE THINK KHATAMI IS
SOMETHING POSITIVE IN HIS OWN RIGHT, THEN WE
WILL FAIL.
HOST: KEN TIMMERMAN, IN YOUR PUBLICATION, YOU HAVE
PROVIDED SOME RATHER STARTLING DOCUMENTATION
ABOUT THE CONTEST OF WILLS BETWEEN PRESIDENT
KHATAMI AND AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI. IS THAT REAL,
AND IF SO, HOW POTENTIAL IS THE OUTBREAK OF
CONFLICT BETWEEN THEM AND THE FORCES BEHIND BOTH
OF THEM?
TIMMERMAN: WE RECEIVED INFORMATION FROM SOURCES INSIDE THE
REGIME IN TEHRAN OF AN EXTRAORDINARY TWO-DAY
MEETING ON JANUARY 15TH AND JANUARY 16TH, WHERE
KHATAMI, THE PRESIDENT, DEMANDED THE RESIGNATION
OF THE INTELLIGENCE MINISTER BECAUSE HIS AGENT
FROM HIS MINISTRY HAD BEEN CAUGHT AND HAD
CONFESSED TO MURDERING DISSIDENTS INSIDE TEHRAN
ITSELF, AT THE ORDER OF THE GOVERNMENT. THEY
MURDERED DARIOUSH FOROUHAR AND HIS WIFE,
PARVANEH, AND TWO OTHER DISSIDENT WRITERS. AND
IT TURNS OUT THIS WAS A PLOT HATCHED BY THE
REGIME ITSELF, BY AYATOLLAH KHAMENEI. SO
KHATAMI WAS SUMMONED TO KHAMENEI'S HOUSE. AND
KHAMENEI BASICALLY TOLD HIM YOU NEED TO BACK OFF
ON THESE DEMANDS OR ELSE YOU COULD VERY
DEFINITELY BE ARRESTED AND PERHAPS EVEN KILLED.
SO THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TENSION BETWEEN
THE TWO. KHATAMI, IN A WAY, IS A WITTING MEMBER
OF THE RULING CLERGY, BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN
INNOCENCE ABOUT HIM THAT YOU SENSE FROM TIME TO
TIME, THAT HE'S NOT QUITE AWARE OF THE FULL
EXTENT OF THE POWERS THAT HE HAS UNLEASHED IN
THE STREET, AS DAVID MENTIONED, THE POWERS OF
OPPOSITION AND THIS REPRESSED ENERGY IN THE
PEOPLE OF IRAN. AND THE REGIME IS VERY, VERY
WORRIED ABOUT THAT.
HOST: DAVID WURMSER THOUGH, MADE THE RATHER
INTERESTING REMARK THAT HE DOESN'T THINK THE
REGIME IS CAPABLE OF CHANGE TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE
ENERGIES AND THOSE DESIRES. WHAT ABOUT THE
PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS THAT ARE SCHEDULED FOR
NEXT YEAR? DOES THAT HAVE ANY POTENTIAL AS A
VEHICLE FOR CHANGE? MAYBE I COULD ASK MR. REZAI
ABOUT THE PARLIAMENT. WILL THERE BE, DO YOU
THINK, THE POSSIBILITY OF REAL ELECTIONS FOR THE
PARLIAMENT NEXT YEAR THAT COULD CHANGE THE
SITUATION?
REZAI: REALLY, THERE IS NOTHING LIKE THIS IN IRAN.
HOST: NO REAL ELECTIONS?
REZAI: NO, BECASUE THEY CHECK EVERYBODY BEFORE THE
ELECTIONS. KHAMENIE CHECKS TO MAKE SURE ONLY
PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THE REGIME CAN BE CANDIDATES.
HOST: YOU MEAN THEY WOULD FIX THE ELECTIONS, YOU WERE
SAYING?
REZAI: YES, THEY DON'T LET ANYBODY TALK. THEY DON'T
LET ANYBODY DO THINGS.
HOST: NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
REZAI: NONE, BECAUSE THEY KNOW IF PEOPLE CAN SAY WHAT
THEY WANT, OR CAN VOTE FOR CANDIDATES OF THEIR
OWN CHOICE, THEN THEY WILL TALK AGAINST THE
REGIME AND TAKE ACTION AGAINST THE REGIME.
IRANIAN PEOPLE HATE THIS REGIME, BECAUSE THIS
REGIME HAS RUINED OUR COUNTRY AND RUINED OUR
LIVES.
HOST: THE REGIME WON'T SURVIVE?
REZAI: NOT IF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO SPEAK
OUT AND TO ORGANIZE.
HOST: NOW, I NEED TO TURN TO IN OUR REMAINING MINUTES,
THE VERY IMPORTANT SUBJECTS UPON WHICH THE
UNITED STATES BASES ITS POLICY TOWARDS IRAN,
THAT THREE THINGS HAVE TO CHANGE: IRAN'S
SEEKING AND DEVELOPING WEAPONS OF MASS
DESTRUCTION; IRANIAN OPPOSITION TO THE MIDDLE
EAST PEACE PROCESS; AND IRANIAN SUPPORT FOR
INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM. DO ANY OF YOU SEE A
POTENTIAL FOR CHANGE IN THOSE THREE CRITICAL
AREAS THAT WOULD ALLOW A RAPPROCHEMENT BETWEEN
THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN?
TIMMERMAN: WELL, CLEARLY, THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT HAS BASED
ITS RULE ON THOSE THREE TYPES OF BEHAVIOR.
BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT AN EXPRESSION OF
POPULAR WILL AT HOME, THEY CREATE A BOGEYMAN, A
DEVIL THAT THEY CAN BLAME EVERYTHING ON. AND
THERE ARE TWO OF THEM RIGHT NOW. ONE IS AMERICA
AND THE OTHER ONE IS ISRAEL. RECENTLY, MR.
REZAI'S FATHER [MAJOR GENERAL MOHSEN REZAI] WAS
ON TELEVISION IN A PRESS CONFERENCE AND HE
BLAMED THE MURDER OF THE DIRECTOR OF THE
DEUTSCHE BANK IN IRAN ON THE UNITED STATES, ON
ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE, AND ON AN OPPOSITION GROUP
OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY. THIS IS JUST
HALLUCINATORY. THIS REGIME, TO STAY IN POWER,
NEEDS TO CREATE THESE FICTIONS, THAT THERE ARE
ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE, AND THEY TRY TO GAIN
POPULAR SUPPORT BY DOING SO. SO THEY CAN NEVER
GET RID OF THEIR SUPPORT FOR TERRORISM. THEY
WILL NEVER JOIN THE PEACE PROCESS AS A POSITIVE
FORCE BECAUSE TERRORSIM IS WHAT THE REGIME IS
BASED ON.
HOST: ALL RIGHT, LET ME ASK MR. REZAI, BECAUSE YOUR
FATHER WAS IN SUCH A POWERFUL POSITION IN IRAN,
DID YOU HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF IRAN'S
PARTICIPATION IN TERRORISM BECAUSE TODAY, OF
COURSE, PRESIDENT KHATAMI DENIES ANY TERRORIST
ACTIVITY?
REZAI: OF COURSE, MR. KHATAMI HAS TO SAY THIS, BUT
REALLY WHEN THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT CARRIES OUT
TERRORIST JOBS IN THE WORLD. . .
HOST: TERRORIST JOBS IN THE WORLD?
REZAI: YES, THEY BELIEVE THIS MAKES THEM MORE POWERFUL.
IF THEY CAN GET PEOPLE IN IRAN TO SAY, "DOWN
WITH THE U-S-A," THEY BELIEVE THIS MAKES THEM
MORE POWERFUL. THEY NEED TO SAY BAD THINGS
ABOUT ISRAEL, ABOUT AMERICA, TO SHOW THAT THEY
ARE POWERFUL.. THIS IS WHY THEY MADE THE ATTACK
ON THE AMERICAN EMBASSY, WHY THEY CONTINUE TO
MAKE ATTACKS AGAINST AMERICA AND ISRAEL TODAY,
TO SHOW THEIR SUPPORTERS AND THE WORLD HOW
POWERFUL THEY ARE, THAT THEY CAN DO THESE THINGS
AND AMERICA AND ISRAEL DO NOTHING TO THEM.
HOST: DO YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF ANY OF THESE ATTACKS?
REZAI: THEY TRAIN PEOPLE IN SOUTHERN LEBANON FOR
TERRORIST ATTACKS.
HOST: IN SOUTH LEBANON?
REZAI: HEZBOLLAH IN SOUTHERN LEBANON. AND I KNOW A
STORY ABOUT DHAHRAN IN SAUDI ARABIA. I REMEMBER
THE NIGHT OF THE ATTACK ON THE AL KHOBAR
BARRACKS IN DHAHRAN. MY FATHER WAS AT HOME.
HOST: WHAT HAPPENED?
REZAI: HE SAID, WE WANT TO KICK THE UNITED STATES ARMY
OUT OF THE PERSIAN GULF. WE WANT TO DRIVE THEM
AWAY AND FORCE THEM TO GO HOME.
HOST: MAKE THEM LEAVE?
REZAI: HE SAID, IF WE KILL THEM, IT IS LIKE KILLING ONE
HUNDRED OF US. IF WE KILL ONE OF THEM, IT WILL
MAKE THEM AFRAID AND MAKE THEM LEAVE.
HOST: MAKE THEM AFRAID?
REZAI: THAT NIGHT, THE NIGHT OF THE AL KHOBAR BOMBING,
MY FATHER, HE WAS VERY HAPPY. AND HE SAID, I
HAVE A VERY GOOD FEELING. I ASKED, WHY? HE
SAID, BECAUSE THE AMERICAN ARMY IS AFRAID OF US
NOW. AFTER TONIGHT, THEY WILL PUT PRESSURE ON
THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TO BRING THEM BACK
TO THE UNITED STATES.
HOST: WHY, WHAT WAS HE HAPPY ABOUT? THE KHOBAR TOWER
BOMBING?
REZAI: YES, YES OF COURSE.
HOST: DID HE SAY WHO DID IT?
REZAI: NO, HE NEVER SAID EXACTLY. BUT IF YOU LIVE IN
IRAN AND IF YOUR FATHER IS MOHSEN REZAI, YOU
KNOW ABOUT HIS FEELING. YOU KNOW THAT HE HAS
KNOWLEDGE OF THESE THINGS, AND SO YOU UNDERSTAND
EXACTLY WHAT HE MEANS.
HOST: LET ME GET QUICK CLOSING REMARK FROM YOU, DAVID
WURMSER ABOUT THOSE THREE IMPORTANT ISSUES FOR
THE UNITED STATES.
WURMSER: WELL, HATRED AND FEAR ARE ABOUT ALL THE ISLAMIC
REVOLUTION HAS LEFT TO PEDDLE TO ITS OWN PEOPLE.
HATRED OF THE UNITED STATES, OF THE WEST, OF
ISRAEL, AND A FEAR IT INSTILLS IN THOSE ENEMIES
IT HATES. THAT'S WHERE THE WEAPONS OF MASS
DESTRUCTION AND TERRORISM COME IN. IF YOU TAKE
THOSE OUT, IF THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT CAN NO
LONGER PURSUE THOSE OBJECTIVES, IT REALLY HAS
LOST FAITH IN ITS OWN REVOLUTION. AND I THINK
THEN WE'RE ON THE EVE OF ITS COLLAPSE.
HOST: BECAUSE THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT IN THE WAY OF
FAITH IN ISLAM INSIDE IRAN?
REZAI: ISLAM IS NOT POPULAR IN IRAN. NO YOUNG PEOPLE
WANT TO BE MUSLIMS TODAY, NOT WHEN THEY SEE WHAT
THIS REGIME DOES IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.
HOST: I'M AFRAID THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE THIS
WEEK. I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR GUESTS -- KENNETH
TIMMERMAN, PUBLISHER OF THE NEWSLETTER, THE IRAN
BRIEF; DAVID WURMSER FROM THE AMERICAN
ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE; AND AHMAD REZAI FROM IRAN
-- FOR JOINING ME THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS THE
IRANIAN REVOLUTION. THIS IS ROBERT REILLY FOR
ON THE LINE.
24-Feb-99 5:21 PM EST (2221 UTC)
NNNN
Source: Voice of America
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