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Transcript of Special Briefing by External Affairs Minister, Dr. S. Jaishankar on G20 Development Ministers' Meeting, Varanasi

India - Ministry of External Affairs

June 13, 2023

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: A very good evening to all of you here in the holy city of Varanasi. We are here, just concluded the G20 DMM meeting. Thank you very much for joining us. We just concluded the Development Ministerial Meeting, chaired by Honorable External Affairs, Dr. S. Jaishankar. To give us a sense of the conversation and the meetings that happened. We have the privilege of having with us right now EAM Dr. S. Jaishankar as well as Foreign Secretary Shri Vinay Kwatra. Sir, may I hand over the floor to you.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: First of all, I seek your indulgence.

Thodisi der ho gayi, mei shama chahta hu. [Approximate Translation: It's a little late, I seek your apology for that. ]

The meeting went on for a little bit longer than we thought. Thank you for bearing with us. So this Development Ministers Meeting of the G20 has just concluded. I want to first of all share with you that we have approved unanimously two outcomes. One is a G20 Action Plan on accelerating progress in the Sustainable Development Goals. The second is a G20 High Level Principles on Lifestyle for Sustainable Development. I think many of you know that Prime Minister have proposed how we should change our lifestyle. It was part of an initiative that we call LiFE. So these two outcomes were agreed to by everybody and that was the main result of the morning session. We had further discussion on these subjects in the afternoon. Much of the morning was spent on Sustainable Development Goals. Much of the afternoon was spent on Climate Change and the relationship between Climate Change and Sustainable Development Goals.

Then at the end of the meeting we had an outcome of the Development Ministerial, which was an Outcome Document and a Chair Summary, because some countries had reservations on some parts of it. So these were the three documents which were done. In terms of the Action Plan; I want to share with you that the Action Plan put a very sharp focus on women led development for achieving SDG goals. There was a commitment how do we leverage data for development because this is a digital era and there are many digital tools which can be used to advance development. Many of you are familiar. In India in the last few years we have shown how much of a difference digital apps and digitally driven programs can make in terms of public delivery of programs and goods. It also focused on human centric economic growth and the sustainable finance for development including through the reform of international financial institutions. So these were the main aspects of the Action Plan...and the Action Plan is very important because I think most of you would know that in the last few years many of the Sustainable Development Goals of countries have fallen behind because they are under financial stress, there is a debt pressure on them, they are finding food and energy and fertilizers more expensive. So the G20 basically understood today, recognized today that the Global South is having great problems that somewhere we have to respond to it through an action plan. So this Action Plan was proposed by India and I am very happy to say on this matter there was no politics, everybody understood the importance of it, everybody rose to that occasion, so there was a deSire to be completely helpful on everybody's part.

The second outcome was on Lifestyle for Sustainable Development. And basically the thinking behind this because some of you would be familiar, some of you may not be so familiar what is this initiative about. Basically what has happened for many years...when we think of growth, we think that growth means there should be more consumption in every country, in every society. So our thinking of growth is there should be higher consumption and that will drive growth. What has happened is that this has damaged nature, this has created problems for the planet. So Prime Minister has been proposing for some time that instead of looking at the supply side, we should actually look at the demand. And if every individual...because when we again think of saving the planet, we think okay this is the job of a Government, it is the job of UN, it is the job of an organization. We don't fully recognize it is a job, it is a responsibility for every one of us, that there is an individual, that is everyone one of us as an individual can contribute to a better planet, to protecting the environment and nurturing it. And this is something which has taken the form of as I said, this set of initiatives and they focus on economic and social improvement through lifestyles for environment, they give priority for basic needs...because again many countries and again I point even to India, that basic needs of vulnerable sections of society have to be met if you have to talk seriously about sustainability. That sustainability...we cannot say that there is a sustainable planet and you have a very rich segment of that planet, you have a vulnerable segment of the planet and one is not connected to other.

The third part of it is really the outlook of "Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam" which is really the world is a family and in the case of India, you know, the G20 motto itself is of 'one earth and one family and one future'. And the core principle what I think today the G20 agreed is, individuals apart from Governments and organizations...individuals and communities must contribute to environmental and sustainable issues and that this needs to be done at a grassroots levels.

We also had a discussion about how the local communities should connect with global policy making, how do we link that, how do we get benefits of that, and again there was a very important acceptance that when we talk today about progress in the world it is not just about economic progress. Though economic progress is very important, economic progress must always have sustainability as a component, there must also be a sharing of cultures and that is again something that was widely recognized. So this is broadly the sense of what we discussed today in terms of the documents. I just want to add something else because during the course of discussions I think many delegations made some very interesting points.

A lot of them were very appreciative of the Voice of Global South Summit process which India had convened. In fact the delegates, especially from the Global South...but I would say even from the developed countries many of them said that they recognized that instead of...I think this was particularly the view which AU expressed, that instead of actually telling countries of the south what G20 has done, for the first time a G20 President was asking countries of the Global South, what do you want put before the G20. So this was a very strong point which was made.

The second point I want to bring to your attention is you all know in the morning our session began with Prime Minister's address, that address is public, you know it was an open session and it was very, very widely welcomed. I think, many Heads of delegations in their remarks actually specifically said that they saw our Prime Minister who was personally invested in development, in sustainability, in poverty alleviation, in inclusiveness and his address I must tell you really set the tone today for our discussions.

I want to add a small personal touch here as well. After Prime Minister's address we showed a brief snapshot of the progress in Narmada district in Gujarat and the reason is that it's an aspirational district, it is also a district where I happen to focus on in terms of development work. And I was actually able...because yesterday a lot of Ministers asked me saying, you know we read about development in India, you know, we hear what does digital do, you know that's advancement in terms of women's issues, we are seeing education progress. So they were very curious, that you know we read about it but you know how does it happen on the ground. So this snapshot that we did and after showing it in fact it I put it out on Twitter so those of you who are curious may want to see it. It actually showed them on the ground what happens, that to the last mile how is delivery done.

The other point which I wanted to mention is that many delegations expressed very deep solidarity and sympathy on the Orissa rail accident. I also acknowledged the fact that they did that. So again I make the point that at moments of misfortune or tragedy today the whole world really stands as one.

And the concluding...I would say concluding note before we actually came to the last session was that the Indian Presidency...again for many delegations was a cause of optimism...that they felt that the Indian Presidency actually brought development back into the center of G20 discussions and that this was somewhere in between focus was a little bit lost I would say or less and they were very, very appreciative of this. So this was really the thrust of the meeting developments. But I think my coming here and speaking to you, I should of course fully recognize the enormous support that we have got to hold this meeting in Varanasi. We had yesterday, most of us went for the Ganga Aarti and almost everybody told me today morning in the meeting...before we went in the meeting, for them it was a unique experience that if, you know, other than the outcomes we got, everybody said when we go back, we will carry that picture of Ganga Aarti in our minds. So for them actually Kashi, Varanasi made a very deep impression, the idea and in fact it highlighted this importance of understanding and appreciating other cultures. That today for a lot of countries to see this thousands of years city with layers of history, which is so visibly expressed I think that was a very moving experience. Even here I would say that the handicrafts they saw, the folk dances they saw, the handlooms, this too was important and yesterday evening Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath Ji was very gracious enough to come down to Varanasi to meet all of them to interact with many delegation leaders. They appreciated it, I mean I appreciated it, again because I know the great effort which has gone into making this a successful meeting and the sense of pride today that Uttar Pradesh as a state and Varanasi as a city has in hosting this meeting, and this state has been a fantastic partner in terms of our G20 efforts and I really want to use this to underline my appreciation for what the Chief Minister and his team has done.

So I think that would be a fair account of the meetings today. So if you have any questions I would be very happy to answer them.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Thank you. We will now open the floor for questions. Please introduce yourself and the organization that you represent and please limit yourself to one question if possible, we are running behind time.

Dhairya Maheshwari: Good evening Sir. Dhairya Maheshwari from Sputnik International. My question is about the gaps in the SDG financing which has been soaring since pandemic, so has have there been any concrete commitments from particularly...from the rich nations and another related question to SDGs is the politicization of supply chains, it has been making an impact in Indian communities as well particularly in the diamond industry in Gujarat. So what sort of discussion --

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: What kind of...sorry...could you repeat your question please.

Dhairya Maheshwari: politicization of Supply chains which has been affecting the economic, you know, well-being of communities?

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: The answer to your point is...yes, SDG financing gap was discussed...yes, it was recognized as a very, very important issue. And there was a discussion about the UN Secretary General's proposal for a SDG stimulus at the UN. There's also, by the way, a Paris Summit on a new global financing pact, in which France and India are among the leading countries who are working on that. So this was very much a concern, because at the end of the day, the feeling was without more resources...you know, before SDG was slowing down...actually in the last few years, many of the goals have regressed. So the feeling is we have to do something very different, very special, and resourcing was one of the issues.

Your second question about the diamond industry. This is not a G20 issue. The diamond industry concern is essentially coming out of the G7. So when Prime Minister went to Hiroshima and we met with G7 leaders, it was something that we discussed with them. I was myself in Brussels. I met both the Prime Minister of Belgium and with the Commissioners in the European Union. And on Prime Minister's instructions, I raised this issue with both of them, that this is a matter of livelihood for many people, that it is not an issue which should be taken in a not fully considered way. And we really do believe that, you know, the totality of the global economy should always be considered when important decisions are made.

Girish Dubey: Good evening Sir. Main Girish Dubey, ANI se, Varanasi se. Sir Pradhan Mantri ji ne bhi Global South ki baat ki thi subah, aap bhi Global South ki baat kar rahain hain, jo aaj ki din bhar ki jo meeting hui G20 ke jo Development Minister aaye the usmai kis tarah ka consent mila unse aur kya baat hui usmai?

[Question in Hindi: Approximate Translation] Good evening Sir. I am Girish Dubey from ANI, Varanasi. Sir, Prime Minister also talked about the Global South in the morning. You are also discussing the Global South. What kind of consent was received from the Development Ministers who attended the G20 meeting today, and what was discussed in it?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Global South ke vishay par? [Approximate Translation: On the topic of Global South?]

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Dekhiye, ek toh aap jo keh rahain hain bilkul thik keh rahe hain ki aaj subah bhi Pradhan Mantri ne Global South pe kafi bal diya. Aur jo hum kehte hain Voice of Global South, hamari koshish thi saal ke shurwat mai ki Global South ki jo chintayain jo hain, unke mudde jo hain unko ek baar jab tak hum unse baat nahi karenge, aur unki chinta nahi samajh payenge, toh G20 jo hain wo apne raste ja raha hain aur Global South jo hain woh piche reh jata, unki koi sunta bhi nahi. Toh hamari koshish thi ki wo 125 desh jo the, swaso desh jo the, unse ek baar agar sampark samvaad ho jaye, unse baat karain, unki baat sune, uska nichod nikale aur usko G20 ke samne rakhain. Aur G20 mai bhi agar ek aisa...kyu ki aap jante hain ki iske alag alag tracks hote hain usmai se sabse jo swabhawik tha ki hum is mudde ko uthaye woh is track mai tha. Toh humne bilkul ye baat uthai ki G20 ki ye chintayain hain aur khaskar jo energy, jo main kehta hoon, energy, food, fertilizer, and debt ki, ke bahot sare aise desh hain unka debt, unka karza itna jyada hain ki woh unko wapas de nahi payenge.

Aur aaj kal jo debt relief jo milta hain woh khali kuch deshon ko milta hain kyuki ye ek purana formula tha. Purana formula tha jab duniya ki ecomony kuch aur thi. Toh uske baad kuch aur desh aaye hain aur unko aajkal kehlaya jata hain ki aap to eligible hi nahi hain. ab agar woh is kathin samasya mai hain aur aap unko kehte hain ki rule jo hain kuch alag hain, ye to nahi chalega. Toh humne jo hain ye sawaso desh ki aur se unke mudde jo hain humne samne rakha. Aur mujhe laga ki aaj jo hain G20 ke desh sunne ke liye taiyar hain, unko bhi ye nahi hain ki....ye na samjhate hain, na samajhana chahte hain, unko bhi lagta hain ki haan kuch hain is baat mai, aur agar Bharat jaisa desh aur Narendra Modi jaise Pradhan Mantri agar wo apni awaz uthaye, agar woh khud personally is baat ko samne rakhain mujhe lagta hain ki duniya pe jarur asar hoga. Aur mujhe aaj iska asar jo hain ispe dikhai deta hain, par isko hamain ab jameen mai utarna hain. Ismai kuch aur bhi tracks hain, jo finance track jo hain usse bhi kuch niklega, kuch aur bhi hain, aur jo badi meeting jo september mai hogi usmai dekhna hoga ki us meeting ke dauran kya nikalta hain.

[Answer in Hindi: Approximate Translation] Look, first of all, you are absolutely right in saying that this morning Prime Minister did emphasize on the Global South. And when we say...Voice of the Global South, our effort at the very beginning of the year was, that the concerns, the issues of the Global South...if we do not engage with them and do not understand their concerns, the G20 will continue on its path while the Global South would have been left behind with no one even listening to them. So our effort was to establish contact and have a dialogue with these 125 countries once, listen to them, understand their concerns, and present the abstract in front of the G20. And within the G20, as you know, there are different tracks, and the most natural one for us to raise this issue was in this track. So we specifically raised this topic that these are the concerns of the G20, especially regarding energy, food, fertilizer, and debt. And there are many countries who are facing huge debt burden that they are unable to repay, and the debt relief available nowadays is only given to a few countries because it's an outdated formula. It's an old formula from a time when the global economy was different, and now when there are some new countries in need, they are told that they are ineligible. So, if they are in this difficult situation and you tell them that the rules are different, this won't work. So we presented the issues of these 125 countries infront of the G20, and I felt that the G20 countries are ready to listen today. Its not the case that they don't understand or they don't want to understand. They also understand that there is something to this matter, and if a country like India and a Prime Minister like Narendra Modi raise their voices and personally bring this matter forward, I believe it will have an impact on the world. And I can see the impact of it today in this (pointing at the outcome documents), but we need to get things working on ground. There are other tracks as well, such as the finance track, from which some outcomes will emerge, and there are more as well. We will have to see what comes out of the major meeting in September.

Ileana: Good afternoon. Ileana, TASS News Agency. Am I right to understand that the outcomes of today's meeting will be the part of the declaration for the Summit in September? And I also have another question. I heard on the sidelines of the meeting that during the first part of the discussions, the countries supported the statement or the proposal, so what is it? The speech of the delegate from Russia, which was on food security. Is it like this? And if it is so, what were these proposals? And do they reflect the needs of Global South countries?

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: How many more questions are there? Because we're running a little bit out of time.

Amritpal Singh: Sir this is Amritpal Singh from DD News. Sir, I wanted to know about what transpired at the bilateral meetings that you held with the representatives from the ones you met, especially the Singaporeans.

Jacky Martens: Thanks. Hi, Jacky Martens, BBC. Just a question. At the beginning of the whole G20 process, there was concern that Ukraine was going to slightly derail the talks. Do you feel that this meeting has put the focus squarely back on development, which is what India was interested in, where the meeting should go?

Saurabh Agrawal: Hi, I'm Saurabh Agrawal from Bharat Express. My question is ki aapne ye bataya ki second session mai lifestyle pe bhi charcha hui, toh ye G20 ke jo countries the koi ek comprehensive plan bana jo ye lifestyle changes pe lekar kuch outcome aaya ispe?

[Question in Hindi: Approximate Translation] Hi, I'm Saurabh Agrawal from Bharat Express. My question is, you mentioned that there was a discussion on lifestyle in the second session. Did the G20 countries come up with any comprehensive plan regarding lifestyle changes, any outcomes on that?

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Your first question about the Summit. You know, what typically happens in a G20 Presidency is there are many tracks. There are about, I think, 14 or 15 tracks. And these 15 tracks, like say, there's an environment track, there's an education track, there's a finance track, there's a development track, there's a Foreign Ministers track. So there are multiple tracks. So these tracks produce different outcomes. And finally, when we reach the Summit level, we have to find ways of how to integrate this and give each of the outcomes what we feel is the right priority at that point of time. So it is not that anything we have agreed to here. For example, you know, we had these two very important outcomes, the High-level Principles on Lifestyles for Sustainable Development and the Action Plan on Accelerating Progress in SDGs. Yes absolutely, because this is unanimous, this is central to world development. Frankly, to date, it is so far the biggest achievement of our Presidency. This is the biggest achievement of our Presidency, and it is for the South. You know, today when countries of the South...Global South, read this document, they will actually say...yes, India heard us, India stood up, India put our issues forward before G20, and G20 has accepted many of those and now is going on a certain path which kind of answers your question. So I think, yes, much of what we have done will be reflected in the Summit, but there will be other Ministerials also which will contribute to what is happening in the Summit.

You asked me about the Russian head of delegations remarks. You know, first of all, I think what happened inside the room, unless it is very complimentary and polite, we normally don't, you know, say this delegation said this and that delegation said this. I would say the fairest thing would be every delegation spoke for its interest and for its...I would say outlook. Now, different countries, you know, some countries may be a little closer to others, but I would not get into this, who supported whom and who did not support whom. I don't think that is helpful. I think the fairest description is everybody spoke for themselves. And my job as chair was to find the common elements and put it together and that is the document that is there before you.

The question about Singapore...you know, it was...we had a discussion on a set of issues because we are having...we have a continuous conversation with Singapore. So you know, some of it was bilateral because we have a high level Ministerial visit. But the most important thing today with Singapore was that Singapore ratified the International Solar Alliance. So they gave me the ratification document. So that is a big step because when a country like Singapore, which is so active, energetic, which is so motivational for many other countries, joins the ISA fully, this is something which is very important.

Your question about...you know, is the focus back on development? I think, yes. Look, in a way, it was understandable last year that the focus was on the more immediate issues pertaining to the conflict. But what happened was, over a period of time, the narrative began to take root that the conflict and, its repercussions should not obfuscate, should not completely sideline what are real concerns, pain points of the Global South. That you know, there are countries today where they cannot afford food, they are running short of fuel and a lot of it, I must tell you, is in this region. You know, you look at our neighbours. Our neighbours are among those who have suffered a lot in the last year. I have made a few trips to Africa and you can see the impact of that. So you know, we are in no way diminishing the seriousness of the conflict and its consequences. But the conflict was dealt with through an agreed understanding at Bali, okay. And that was an understanding of the Leaders. So right now, our focus is really how do you today address this very pressing needs of developing countries, the small island developing states, the least developed countries, those who are really teetering on the edge of an abyss. And that I would say with some pride and some, you know, really a sense of achievement. I think today, if you ask me what did you get done today, I think we really got the G20 to look at sustainable development growth, look at what is happening with Global South, think about financing for them, look at climate, think about climate financing, look at the link between development and financing, look at women's issues, at education, at digital, these are the real issues of the world. And I think in that sense, yes...we I think, got the spotlight, the focus on those issues.

And finally aapka jo sawal jo tha ki lifestyle pe kya charcha hui. Dekhiye aaj jo sehmati jo bani thi ye lifestyle pe nau siddhant hain jo hum angrezi mai kehta hain high level principles, ye agar aap ye document isko humne upload kiya hain ye agar aap dekh le, ki ye jo siddhant jo hain ye hain, ke har vyakti ki jimmedari hoti hain agar hum apne roj ke jeevan mai kuch parivartan laye, aap thoda environment ke bare mai kuch sochain, hum apne consumption patterns ko thoda badle, toh humain ye nahi sochna chahiye ki environment bachana kisi aur ka kaam hain, ye hum sab ka dayitwa hain. Toh ye nine principles jo hain ye puri duniya ko jo hain....kyuki ye G20 jo hain alag alag -- aap jante hain kuch viksit desh hain, kuch vikashil desh hain, kuch America se hain, kuch Eurpoe se hain, kuch Africa se hain, toh hum sab mikle hamara jo sehmati jo bana hain in nau principles pe ye chhoti baat nahi hain. Aur ye sehmati jo hain ye Global South ke bahot kaam aayega, kyuki ek baar agar aap maan le ki humain consuption pe kuch seema rakhni chahiye, kuch anushashan dikhana chahiye, toh ye duniya mai ek kisam se force of change ban jata hain. Toh mujhe lagta hain ki aaj jo hain duniya mai bahot aise desh honge jinko lagega ki aaj sach much Bharat ke netrutva ne unke heet aage badhe hain, unki mange jo hain usko kahin duniya ne maana hain, aur kam se kam usko kaise aage badhaye ab woh process jo hain woh jari rahegi.

[Answer in Hindi: Approximate Translation] And finally, regarding your question about the discussion on lifestyle. Look, today the consensus that was reached consists of nine principles, called as the High Level Principles related to Lifestyle. If you take a look at the document we have uploaded, you will see that these principles indicate that every individual has a responsibility to bring about changes in their daily lives, to think a little about the environment, and to modify our consumption patterns. We should not think that saving the environment is someone else's task; it is the responsibility of all of us. These nine principles are significant for the entire world because the G20 consists of different countries—some developed, some developing, some from America, some from Europe, some from Africa—so the consensus we have reached on these principles is not a small matter. And this consensus will greatly benefit the Global South because once we agree that we need to limit our consumption and show some discipline, it becomes a force of change in the world. So, I believe that today there will be many countries in the world who will feel that India's leadership has truly worked in their favor, that their demands have been agreed by the world, and now atleast the process of how to further advance those demands will continue.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Thank you very much, Sir. Thank you for a comprehensive briefing. Thank you also to Foreign Secretary, Sir and to Dr. S. Jaishankar, Sir. Thank you all for joining us. Good evening.