27 January 2003
Bolton: North Korea Must End Nuclear Program in Verifiable Way
(January 24 interview with BBC) (2900) The United States wants North Korea to eliminate its nuclear weapons program in "a comprehensive and verifiable way," according to Under Secretary of State John Bolton. The U.S. diplomat made that point in a January 24 interview with the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) in Tokyo, Japan. Bolton said the United States has discussed North Korea with its allies Japan and the Republic of Korea, as well as with China and Russia, while the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) 35 member Board of Governors has passed two resolutions regarding Pyongyang's actions. "We seek a third resolution which will unambiguously state that North Korea is in violation of the nonproliferation treaty, which requires an automatic referral to the Security Council," Bolton told the BBC reporter interviewing him via telephone. Bolton said the United States would seek to have the United Nations Security Council "demonstrate once again to the North Koreans how unanimous is international opinion that their nuclear weapons program is unacceptable." While the United States doesn't intend to seek sanctions against the Pyongyang regime at this time, Bolton said, much depends on the communist government's behavior. If Pyongyang were to give up its nuclear weapons program, Bolton suggested, "A lot of other things are possible." Regarding Iraq's defiance of U.N. resolutions calling on it to reveal and give up its weapons of mass destruction, Bolton said the United States would go back to the U.N. Security Council. "I think President Bush committed very clearly during the negotiation of Resolution 1441 to go back to the Security Council and we will certainly do that and make the case about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," Bolton said. However, he cautioned, neither the United States nor any other nation could "put its vital national interests under the veto of the Security Council or any other organization." Following is a transcript of Under Secretary of State John Bolton's January 24 interview with the BBC in Tokyo: (begin transcript) Under Secretary of State John R. Bolton BBC Interview by Telephone January 24, 2002 U.S. Embassy Tokyo, Japan About 6:00 p.m. local time QUESTION: There's been lots of talk in East Asia, in China in particular, about what the U.S. position is and who agrees with whom and what's going on. Could you first of all state very clearly what is your position vis-à-vis North Korea? Is it, from my understanding, is it correct that you want to get the IAEA to meet and to refer the issue to the Security Council? U/S BOLTON: The most important position, of course, is that we want North Korea to eliminate its nuclear weapons program in a comprehensive and verifiable way, and we're looking at a variety of mechanisms that might do that, including discussions with China, Russia, Japan, South Korea and others. We have also had two unanimous resolutions by the IAEA Board of Governors going back to November, and we seek a third resolution which will unambiguously state that North Korea is in violation of the nonproliferation treaty, which requires an automatic referral to the Security Council. QUESTION: So that is your position? You want the IAEA to pass a third resolution, and that makes it automatically referred to the Security Council. That is your intention? U/S BOLTON: That's correct, and we're optimistic. Although we have not been able to obtain that resolution this week, we're confident that it will occur in the very near future, perhaps as early as next week. QUESTION: Well, indeed, sources in Vienna of the IAEA say there is no agreement on this third resolution. U/S BOLTON: You require a consensus obviously to have all 35 members of the Board of Governors sign off on it, but we think we're actually very close, and in our consultations with all of the key member governments we are hopeful, as I say, that perhaps the resolution can be adopted as early as next week. QUESTION: Let me ask you, Security Council action could mean almost anything, from a carefully worded statement rapping North Korea over the knuckles, it could mean sanctions, it could mean credible use of force as you are putting together, or trying to, on Iraq. What is your ultimate plan for North Korea? U/S BOLTON: Our ultimate plan is to have a North Korea without a nuclear weapons program, and specifically in the Security Council we think the first thing for the Council to do is to demonstrate once again to the North Koreans how unanimous is international opinion that their nuclear weapons program is unacceptable. The Security Council is charged by the U.N. Charter with responsibility for maintaining international peace and security, and obviously North Korea's weapons of mass destruction constitute a threat to that international peace and security. But the Council has a wide variety of options available to it. We don't have any intention presently to seek sanctions, and much of this really turns on North Korea's behavior. If they would give up their nuclear weapons program, a lot of other things are possible. QUESTION: The Chinese, after you had said publicly they agreed to take this issue to the Security Council, indicated that that was not the case. What exactly is your understanding of the Chinese position? Do they support your taking this issue to the Security Council or not? U/S BOLTON: Yes, they do, and it's not simply a matter of what they told me. It's what Foreign Minister Tang told Secretary Powell. I think there may be some confusion in the Chinese have also said that they believe that it's appropriate for there to be other forms of discussion with North Korea. But there's no disagreement that this is ultimately going to go via the IAEA to the Security Council. QUESTION: And you are absolutely clear that you have Chinese support for that? U/S BOLTON: What I said in Beijing earlier this week and what their foreign minister told Secretary Powell was that they accepted that this was going to go to the Security Council. We had hoped that we would be in a position to have that resolution adopted this week, but if it happens next week that still moves it in the right direction. QUESTION: You are in Japan. Have the Japanese also supported that position via the IAEA to the Security Council with North Korea? U/S BOLTON: Yes they have, and indeed this is not a precipitous action at the IAEA. We've had two other resolutions going back to November, so we've proceeded in a very deliberate and prudent fashion in the IAEA, and it's now appropriate to get it to the Security Council. QUESTION: I recall clearly when I was the BBC's U.N. correspondent that it was always very difficult for the American diplomats to deal urgently with two issues such as North Korea and Iraq. Is there a sense in which you've got to get Iraq out of the way before you can seriously confront the issue of North Korea's nuclear program? U/S BOLTON: Maybe you go back a ways, but I think we can handle both matters in the Security Council at the same time. Obviously, they're very different in many respects, and at different stages of development, but it's our view that the Council can handle both matters. If we had a different view, obviously, we would not be pressing to take the North Korean matter there. QUESTION: Mr. Bolton, you and I both know how these diplomatic wranglings work. If you've got North Korea on the Council and you've got Iraq on the Council, a country like China might well say "we might support you, or at least not veto some resolution or the other on Iraq, but you've got to support us on a softer line on North Korea." That is possible, is it not? U/S BOLTON: A lot of things are possible. I would say from my consultations in Beijing on Monday, where we discussed Iraq at length and where we discussed North Korea at length, that there was no linkage between the two. I'm not saying that something like that's not possible, but I think the Chinese analysis is that these are two very separate problems that need to be addressed in different fashions, which is the same approach that we've been following. QUESTION: You do admit that given the realities of politics and diplomacy, it is at least possible that North Korea is perhaps put on a back burner while the Americans get on with their top priority, which of course is Iraq. U/S BOLTON: It's not a question of putting North Korea on the back burner; it's a question of treating it appropriately in the circumstances we face. QUESTION: What do you say to the argument that over Iraq and perhaps with North Korea, America will go the Security Council route as it did with Kosovo, if it gets agreement there? If not, it will take it elsewhere? U/S BOLTON: I think President Bush committed very clearly during the negotiation of Resolution 1441 to go back to the Security Council and we will certainly do that and make the case about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. But I don't think the United States or any other nation can put its vital national interests under the veto of the Security Council or any other organization. I'm hoping that there will be broad acceptance of the conclusion that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction have to be eliminated. We have tried peacefully. We are still hopeful it can be done peacefully, but as President Bush said we know how this story is going to end. It's going to end with Iraq's weapons of mass destruction being eliminated. In the case of North Korea, I think it's a very different set of circumstances, and we're still actively pursuing a peaceful diplomatic solution at President Bush's direction. QUESTION: What do you say to the argument that America is ignoring, over Iraq, its European allies, principally France and Germany. It has simply decided that it's going to take action against Iraq and it really doesn't matter what the Europeans think? U/S BOLTON: I think that's belied by the continuing conversations that Secretary Powell has had with his counterpart foreign ministers as recently as early this week at the Security Council ministerial meeting on counter-terrorism. I think it's also premature to judge what members of the Council may do before they've had a chance to hear the case that we're prepared to make on Iraq's program of weapons of mass destruction, which pursuant to the President's commitment to go back to the Council, I'm sure we'll be doing in the near future. QUESTION: I raise Iraq because sources in China are saying if America is prepared to perhaps not necessarily sing from the same hymn sheet as major European allies, then would it really take any notice over countries like China which, let's be realistic, does have a veto in the Security Council when it comes to say Iraq? But certainly, will it take any notice of major allies, for example China, when it comes to North Korea? U/S BOLTON: I think we are taking notice of China. I think Secretary Powell has been in regular touch, again meeting for over an hour in New York on Sunday. Obviously, I've just had a full day of consultations there. Other American officials had been in Beijing and will be there shortly, and we are consulting with them in New York and Vienna and Washington, as well. So I think consultations with China are quite extensive. QUESTION: Let me ask you about the timeframe. You say you want this to go to the United Nations Security Council. When is that going to happen? U/S BOLTON: I'm optimistic that it still would occur within a week or so. We're pressing to have it happen as soon as possible, and it's just a question of getting the consensus on the IAEA Board of Governors to do that. QUESTION: And when it gets there, what action do you want - a strong statement from the President of the Security Council? U/S BOLTON: That's one idea that's been suggested, and I think there's a lot of merit to that, but it's one reason we think it's important to get North Korea to the Council as soon as possible, so that we can consider a number of alternatives. There may be other suggestions that we should pay careful attention to, as well. QUESTION: You mean stronger alternatives? Because there's every indication that Iraq is hardly going to quake in its boots when some official in New York says some statement, which is agreed by the Security Council. U/S BOLTON: Iraq or North Korea? QUESTION: Oh sorry, forgive me, Mr. Bolton. But what is the evidence do you think that the North Koreans are going to take any notice of a statement from some official in New York? U/S BOLTON: I think the objective is to show that North Korea is increasingly isolated in the pursuit of its nuclear weapons program, and to try through a variety of diplomatic means to bring them to their senses, to get them to abandon the program, and in fact dismantle it completely. QUESTION: Why is it that America argues in the case of Iraq that diplomacy has to be backed by (inaudible) and yet in the case of North Korea that argument doesn't apply? U/S BOLTON: I think in the case of Iraq we've had 12 years of Iraq frustrating the will of the Security Council and persisting and trying to hang on to its weapons of mass destruction. I think that's why President Bush has concluded that after 12 years it's time to bring this matter to a conclusion. In the case of North Korea we're still pursuing a diplomatic approach, although as Secretary Rumsfeld and Dr. Rice said last Sunday, of course for the President all of our options remain on the table. QUESTION: You say that it's time to bring this issue to some kind of closure. You want the international community to be on board. Does that mean you will press very hard for another resolution in the Security Council against Iraq? U/S BOLTON: I think that's a real possibility. I don't believe a final decision on that has been made, but we're certainly going to honor President Bush's commitment to go back to the Security Council and tell them what we know about the ongoing Iraqi campaign of deception against the U.N. weapons inspectors and Iraq's continuing efforts to secure weapons of mass destruction. QUESTION: And if you don't get that Security Council resolution you'll do what you did with Kosovo - you'll leave the U.N. behind and just carry on anyway? Is that your policy? U/S BOLTON: Once again, there's no decision made on that point, but I think President Bush has been clear that United Nations Security Council resolutions have to be honored. We certainly hope the Council will do that, but we are prepared to do what we need to do - reserve the right to do what we need to do - to defend our national security interests. QUESTION: But if you did go the non-U.N. route, how much support do you have? You have Britain on board, but who else is there? U/S BOLTON: We have a wide variety of nations that have committed in various ways to provide support for us, and I think we're convinced that we'll have a very extensive, very broad international coalition that agrees with us that it's simply not tolerable to leave Iraq in possession of weapons of mass destruction. QUESTION: Who are these nations that have pledged a wide variety of support, and what support are they pledging? U/S BOLTON: I'm not going to get into the specifics of it. QUESTION: Give us one country, for example, other than Britain. U/S BOLTON: Pardon me? QUESTION: Give me one country other than Britain. U/S BOLTON: Well there are a variety of countries that have pledged access rights and base rights, and I think it's really up to those countries to make that public. But it's not... QUESTION: Well, why can't you tell us? They're offering support to a country like America with the possibility of war looming. I mean, shouldn't we know who these countries are? U/S BOLTON: It's a very delicate matter in each of these cases, and I think you will know at the appropriate time. QUESTION: Very finally, Mr. Bolton, after this confusion over China's position and the extent to which they agreed with you on North Korea and possibly Iraq, you cancelled meetings yesterday - you were ill. I have to say that cynics said this is a case of diplomatic flu. Are you better now? U/S BOLTON: I'm fine, and if you think it was a case of diplomatic flu you should have investigated my stomach yesterday. QUESTION: I had to put that to you because some cynics are saying that. That was really great. Thank you so much to you and to your staff for helping us arrange that. That was thoroughly worthwhile. Many thanks, indeed, and good luck to you, Sir. U/S BOLTON: OK, happy to do it. (end transcript) (Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
