29 December 2002
Powell Interview on CNN's Late Edition
(Discusses North Korea, comments on Iraq, Middle East, Kenya) (2,670)
Following is the transcript of Secretary of State Colin Powell's
January 29 interview about North Korea on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf
Blitzer:
(begin transcript)
Interview on CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer
Secretary Colin L. Powell
Department of State
Washington, DC
December 29, 2002
MR. BLITZER: Mr. Secretary, thanks once again for joining us. The
issue at hand right now, there seems to be a crisis between the United
States, on the one hand, and its allies, and North Korea. But you're
apparently refusing to say this is a crisis.
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I don't like the word "crisis." It suggests
we're about to move forces or there's a war about to break out, and
that's not the case at all. We have a very serious situation which are
treating as a serious situation. North Korea, notwithstanding its
obligations under the 1994 Agreed Framework, started a second
production system for the development of nuclear weapons, enriching
uranium.
We think that's very serious. We took it to the international
community. We took it to the North Koreans. They admitted it. Having
admitted that they were in violation of their agreement, said, well,
so what? And then, now they have decided to come and get in violation
of their obligations under the Agreed Framework by kicking the
inspectors out of the Yongbyon plutonium facility and also removing
all the seals and starting that reactor up.
So these are two acts of misbehavior on the part of the North Korean
regime. And what we are doing is working with our friends and allies,
who have an even greater equity in this matter than we do, and talking
with the South Koreans, the Japanese, the Russians, the Chinese, the
European Union, the United Nations -- all of us coming together to
make the case to North Korea that this will not accomplish anything
that will be of benefit to your nation and we will not be scared into
making concessions to you or appeasing you in some way.
MR. BLITZER: But this seems so frightening. This is one of the members
of the "axis of evil". It's a Stalinist regime, unpredictable. And you
are now acknowledging they probably already have two nuclear bombs and
they might be able to build a lot more.
SECRETARY POWELL: Don't be quite so breathless. They've had two
nuclear weapons, we believe, for some time. It is not something that
we have suddenly discovered. We have always attributed this capability
to them. Our intelligence community believes they probably had enough
material to fabricate two weapons and they may well have these two
weapons.
If they start this reactor back up and if they go beyond what they say
they're starting it for -- they say they need the electricity because
we cut off their heavy fuel in response to their violation of the
Agreed Framework -- but if they go beyond that and start to reprocess
the spent fuel that is at the facility, they could have another
several nuclear weapons in a matter of, let's say, six months. So that
would take them from two to six. We don't like that. We don't believe
this is their best interest. It's certainly not in the best interest
of the region or the world.
But it is not yet a crisis that requires mobilization or for us to be
threatening North Korea. Quite the contrary, we have been saying to
North Korea that we have no plans to invade you, we have no hostile
intent towards you. You have people who are starving. We are the
biggest food provider to the people of North Korea as part of the
World Food Program. So we have no ill intent toward North Korea, but
we are deeply concerned about some of the actions they have taken over
the years to proliferate weapons of mass destruction throughout the
world, to sell this kind of technology throughout the world.
And I think it was quite right for the President to say that clearly
when he gave his State of the Union speech. Remember, the State of the
Union speech where he called them part of the "axis of evil" was 11
months ago. They started this new program four year ago. And so we
finally found out about the program and called them on it. We were in
the process of negotiations with them. I went and met with the foreign
minister of North Korea in Brunei at the end of July. We sent in
Assistant Secretary Kelly to let them know that there were things we
could do for their country, but they had to stop this kind of
activity.
And their response has not been an encouraging one. And for that
reason the President is keeping all of his options on the table, but
we're leading with the diplomatic option because it's important for
everybody to realize this is a problem not just for the United States
but for the region and for the world.
MR. BLITZER: When I hear you say that the President is leaving all of
his options on the table, that normally is codeword for the military
option as well.
SECRETARY POWELL: He has a military option. We're not bringing it up
to the front, because it's not necessary to do so. Everybody knows
what our military capacity is. Secretary Rumsfeld made it clear
earlier this week that we have the capacity to deal with any emergency
or situation that might arise. But keep in mind that, you know, we try
to solve things peacefully, notwithstanding the reputation we
sometimes enjoy as always reaching for a gun. It is rather interesting
that over the last several days everybody is wondering why isn't the
United States reaching for a gun.
And the answer is we believe that there are still options available to
us that focus on political and diplomatic tools that the international
community can bring to bear on this problem. North Korea is already
paying a price for this misbehavior. Japan was on the way to
normalization. It was on the way to providing a huge economic package
for North Korea if they went down that normalization route. The new
president-elect of South Korea wants to reach out to North Korea.
President-elect Roh -- that was part of his platform. But now he has
had to speak out strongly about North Korea behavior as a result of
what the North Koreans have done.
And so there are ways to mobilize the international community. And as
President Jiang Zemin came to Crawford and spent a lot of time with
President Bush discussing this situation -- this took more time than
any other agenda item at Crawford -- and the Chinese came out and said
clearly we will not support any nuclearization of the Korean
Peninsula. We don't want to see it. We don't want it. And so the North
Koreans are now running in the face of that opposition from the
Chinese as well. So they are buying themselves problems and we're
going to try to find a way to get out of this situation without
letting it escalate to a crisis level.
MR. BLITZER: Is it time for the UN Security Council to be brought into
the situation?
SECRETARY POWELL: I have been in close touch with all of my permanent
colleagues in the Security Council and I had a conversation with Kofi
Annan the day before yesterday about it. I don't know if it's time for
the Security Council to do anything. The International Atomic Energy
Agency will be meeting on the 6th of January, or thereabouts, to
consider what North Korea has done, and the Board of Governors of the
IAEA at that time will make a judgment as to whether or not they will
report these actions to the United Nations. But we are not waiting for
the beginning of the year to table a resolution before the Security
Council.
MR. BLITZER: This "tailored containment" that the administration has
discussed, one element --
SECRETARY POWELL: I've only read about this term in the paper this
morning.
MR. BLITZER: So is there no such thing?
SECRETARY POWELL: There is no plan that has a title "tailored
containment" on it. It's an interesting phrase. I don't object to the
phrase. But to suggest that it is some grand strategy that we have,
no. We have a strategy that we have been executing on. We have kept
our friends and allies closely informed about developments. We have
shared the intelligence. We have made it clear to the North Koreans
that there are ways to communicate. But we will not enter a
negotiation where they sit there and say, "What will you pay us for
our misbehavior? How will you appease our misbehavior this time?"
We've made it clear to everyone that the Agreed Framework dealt with
the facility at Yongbyon, but it was a marvelous act of misdirection.
While we were watching Yongbyon, they were creating an enriched
uranium capability elsewhere in the country. And so they have to be
held to account for this. So there are ways for them to talk to us. We
know how to get in touch with them. And we are hoping that sooner or
later a way will be found, either with us or with other members of the
international community, to find a solution to this situation.
MR. BLITZER: It looks -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- you were
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs a dozen years ago during the first Gulf
War. With the deployment of all these troops and now the Hospital Ship
Comfort, it looks like the train is leaving the station.
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, the train is being loaded. The President has
not made a decision to go to war. But what Secretary Rumsfeld and the
Joint Chiefs of Staff are doing are prudent measures to get ready for
whatever might be required. And it's to make it absolutely clear to
the world, and to Saddam Hussein especially, that if he does not come
into compliance with this UN resolution, if he is not fully
cooperative, and if he is found to be not fully cooperative and
cheating, and military action is necessary and if the President finds
it appropriate to make that decision, we'll be ready to execute.
MR. BLITZER: But they already are, as you just said a few weeks ago,
they are in material breach?
SECRETARY POWELL: They are, once again, in material breach. It's
another material breach on top of many previous material breaches. And
the patience of the international community is running thin here, it
seems to me. And January will be an important month as Dr. Blix of
UNMOVIC and Dr. El Baradei of IAEA report to the Council on their
findings and how cooperative Iraq is being.
MR. BLITZER: Will Saudi Arabia be with the United States if it comes
down to another war?
SECRETARY POWELL: My view is that Saudi Arabia has been cooperative
with us in the global war against terrorism. They are open to the
proposals that we have made to them about what might be needed. But I
don't want to speak for the Government of Saudi Arabia as to what they
have said yes to and no to or where they might be at some point in the
future. They have been good friends of ours in the past and I would
expect them to be good friends in the future as well.
MR. BLITZER: And you saw the story in The New York Times today that
they've already --
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I don't want to comment on these military
issues. I'll leave that to my Pentagon colleagues to say what they
wish to about it.
MR. BLITZER: As far as the Israeli-Palestinian situation is concerned,
there was an editorial in The New York Times this past week. Among
other things, it said this: "By waiting to unveil the roadmap until
after the new Israeli government is formed, which could be several
months, Washington seems to be hoping to wrap this problem into a
broader recasting of the region after regime change in Iraq. That is a
dangerous gamble."
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, that's their opinion of what we're trying to
do. What we're trying to do is put down a roadmap and put it down in a
way that it will be received with some favor on both sides. And it was
our judgment when the Quartet met earlier this month that we were
close to finishing the roadmap and it was a pretty good way forward,
but to introduce it at this stage with the Israeli election underway,
that might not be the best environment in which to introduce this
roadmap. A delay of a few weeks I don't think will be significant,
will make a significant difference.
And, in fact, the best roadmap in the world will not produce anything
if the terror doesn't stop. And so our focus still has to be on ending
terror and achieving some level of security so that both sides can
operate in some sense of security and some understanding that by
moving forward in the roadmap they will not simply be opening
themselves up to more acts of terror and violence.
MR. BLITZER: And just very briefly because I know we're running out of
time, Arafat, Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian Authority president, does
he have a role in any of this?
SECRETARY POWELL: He has been a failed leader and we continue to
believe he's a failed leader. That's why we hope that new leaders will
emerge. We would like to see a prime minister emerge who has authority
to act and we would like to see elections of the kind that will give
the Palestinian people a chance to determine whether or not new
leadership might end this horrible situation that they find themselves
in.
MR. BLITZER: Finally, a new leader in Kenya elected today, ending a
quarter of a century or so of Daniel arap Moi's rule. Is this good for
the United States?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I think it's good for Kenya, frankly, to see
that they can have a successful election, and it was an open election
and one that was relatively free of violence. So it was good. The
democratic process worked and I'm pleased that President Moi stepped
down in accordance with that democratic process.
The president-elect has made a commitment to ending corruption, to
economic development, and to social advancement within the country,
and if he moves forward on that agenda it will be good for Kenya, good
for the Kenyan people, and of course good for relations with the
United States. We have good relations with Kenya now and I expect that
they'll be improved in the future.
MR. BLITZER: And good luck to you. I know you've had an incredibly
busy day today. Good luck with all these so-called crises. I'm going
to catch my breath, by the way.
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, it's interesting to remember, you know, last
year the crisis was India and Pakistan. Everybody was afraid that a
nuclear war was about to break out there. And the international
community then came together, worked with the two parties. We still
have a difficult situation in Kashmir, but at least the threat of war
has receded considerably. They're both deescalating. And I hope that
in this new year we'll find a way for the two sides to begin a
dialogue on all of the issues that are outstanding between India and
Pakistan, to include Kashmir.
MR. BLITZER: The whole world is looking towards you to do it.
SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Wolf. Happy New Year.
MR. BLITZER: Happy New Year. Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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