Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD)
Albright Interview with Jim Lehrer on PBS October 30
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
October 31, 2000
INTERVIEW OF SECRETARY OF STATE MADELEINE K. ALBRIGHT
BY JIM LEHRER OF THE LEHRER NEWS HOUR
October 30, 2000
Washington, D.C.
MR. LEHRER: We go first tonight to the Secretary of State, Madeleine
Albright. She has just returned from a trip to North Korea, the first
U.S. Secretary of State ever to visit that communist nation.
Madame Secretary, welcome.
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Good to be with you, Jim.
MR. LEHRER: Did you accomplish what you set out to accomplish in North
Korea?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I did, because what I wanted to do was to
obviously met with Kim Jong Il, a leader with whom no American
official had met. President Kim Dae Jung of South Korea had met with
him. But I had a chance to meet with him and talk with him, as it
ended up, for almost 12 hours, six official hours and then various
dinners and performances.
And the point was to try to see how we could significantly reduce the
threat from the missiles that the North Koreans have been producing.
And I think that we have, in a step-by-step way, been able to open
some doors. The work that I did is now going to be followed up by
meetings with technical experts, and we're going to take it step by
step.
MR. LEHRER: What did he say about the missiles?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, he basically is prepared to look at some
kind of an exchange in terms of this idea that he actually originally
had raised with President Putin about if we would launch some peaceful
satellites for him instead. But he basically, I think, is prepared to
take some important steps. We have to test it. We have to make sure
that these aren't just words.
But I think it's very important, Jim, to put this into context. You
know, we were at war with North Korea 50 years ago. Since then, we
have considered it among the most dangerous places in the world. We
have 37,000 troops on the Korean Peninsula. It is a remnant of the
Cold War. And if we have an opportunity to break this last barrier, I
think it will be a very important step forward and we need to keep
pursuing on a very careful way.
MR. LEHRER: What is the state of intelligence on the missiles and what
North Korea has, what threat they pose to Asia and even to the United
States?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think we have pretty good intelligence on it,
that I obviously can't discuss, but I think that we --
MR. LEHRER: A serious problem?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think we had thought that we had a problem
with their potential of the nuclear programs, and through the Agreed
Framework that we worked out in '94 we were able to freeze their
fissile material programs. And now we have had a missile test
moratorium with them for the last month, and we want to now make sure
that we can significantly reduce the threat in a more permanent way.
MR. LEHRER: And you came away after these 12 hours with Kim believing
that he will do that?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, this is what we have to test. I mean, I
think that the information on him was kind of scattered, and it wasn't
until Kim Dae Jung went and said that he had some very important
discussions with him and found him to be somebody that he could talk
to, that was rational, pragmatic. I found the same thing. Basically,
you know, we have had such weird stories about him, but it turns out
that we had very good discussions.
MR. LEHRER: Where did those stories come from, that he was an
irrational man who you could never have the kind of conversation you
just did with him?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think this is a hard thing to assess, Jim.
I think that it's conceivable that there were periods of this is what
he was like. But it has been six years since his father has died; he
is in charge of what is called kind of a hermit kingdom. And he
listened very carefully. He didn't lecture me. I went through all my
talking points with him, and he gave rational answers and he seems
pragmatic.
Now, I think that he clearly has some very serious economic issues,
and I think it's worth us probing and testing. I made a big point of
saying that these glasses that I have are not rose colored, and I've
spent my whole life studying communist systems so I know what we're
dealing with. But I think it's really worth exploring.
MR. LEHRER: Did he seem informed about the United States and the rest
of the world?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: He did seem informed. He also told me he had three
computers in his office, watches a different television network, and
stays informed. He says that he reads --
MR. LEHRER: Does he watch CNN?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: CNN. He said he did. And I did find him informed.
We talked about regional issues. I can't say I kind of gave him a
test, but we did have pretty wide-ranging discussions.
MR. LEHRER: Did you come away with the impression that he really wants
to have a good relationship with the United States?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think he would like to, above all, have a
relationship with --
MR. LEHRER: Did he say why?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, I think basically he sees us as the major
power. But we believe that it's very important also for us to go in
parallel with the South Koreans - Kim Dae Jung, who really started
this - and with the Japanese. And so we have had very, very careful
trilateral discussions where we - all three of our countries - are
very careful about taking each other's interests into concern. MR.
LEHRER: How did Kim Jong Il talk about South Korea?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: He talks about it in different ways. I think he
feels a certain amount of competition with it obviously, but he talked
about the fact that it was important to think about the future of the
Peninsula. He was not hostile, and he was not hostile towards the
United States. So competitive, I think, is the right word. And he does
see, I think, the United States as - he understands, from what I got,
that we have a place in East Asia.
MR. LEHRER: Now, while they have been developing these missiles, two
million of their people have died by most estimates, maybe even more
than that, of famine. Did you talk to him about this, why his people
are starving and why he's putting his money in missiles rather than in
feeding?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, we talked about his economy, and I think
that here he believes that something needs to be done. He basically
talks about the drought and the problems that this has brought for his
people, and the fact that they need food to feed the people. He does
not, I think, take personal responsibility for it, but he certainly
knows that the economy is not working. And they submit requests to the
World Food Program. I went to a World Food Program place, a
kindergarten, where they were feeding children with American food, and
that was very heartening.
MR. LEHRER: But he doesn't sit around and say to you, oh, our
communist system isn't working, please help us turn this into a
democracy so we can feed our people? None of that?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: No, none of that. Although he does say that he is
interested in other economic models. But, look, I don't buy - you
know, he was non-ideological, if I could put it that way. The
discussion was not an ideological one. But we have a long way to go,
Jim. I mean, he hasn't spoken to people openly. And I think that on
what we care about - and I raised all the issues with him - I mean,
whether it was about human rights or terrorism or POW-MIA exchanges,
all the issues that we have on our agenda - but we did focus on the
security issues.
MR. LEHRER: I spoke to a reporter who was on your trip, and she talked
about this incredible evening that you spent in the stadium of 100,000
people on the field and then another 150,000 watching. What was that
like? It was all a tribute to socialism and all a tribute to the
leader, wasn't it?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, it was a repeat of their performance for the
55th anniversary of their - of the Workers Party. And it was a feat
in terms of pulling together people. You know, it's what a
totalitarian system can do is make everybody dance in tune.
But I think that it was something that he was proud of, that he took
me to. I thought it was interesting to watch but, as I said, I wasn't
fooled by how he had gotten there.
MR. LEHRER: Were you uncomfortable sitting there?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Sure, absolutely. But, you know, one of the things
when you go to a country and the leader of the country takes over your
entire schedule, which he did, I wasn't supposed to see him until the
second day, and all of a sudden he said that we would have an
appointment that afternoon and that he had cleared his schedule for me
for the next day. And then we were supposed to go to some circus, and
instead he said I want to take you to the show. So it's a little hard
to say no, and I did sit there. And when I said I was amazed, amazed
is kind of a neutral word. It is amazing to see a quarter of a million
people all together, and wild applause for him. But the performance
was really quite remarkable in terms of people doing everything in
step.
MR. LEHRER: Now, one of the things that was said before you went on
your trip is that if everything went well that President Clinton might
go to - also go to North Korea before the end of his term. Is that
still in the works?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: Well, no decision has been made. I called the
President from Seoul and we had a meeting today, actually, and I
really briefed him in some detail. No decisions have been made. My
trip obviously was important in trying to clear away some of the
obstacles, and now talks - Bob Einhorn, who is the Assistant
Secretary for Nonproliferation, is already on his way to Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia, for discussions with his counterparts. And we're going to
take this step by step.
MR. LEHRER: What would be the point of the President going?
SECRETARY ALBRIGHT: I think only if we were - you know, we'd have to
see whether we were able to accomplish more. And here, Jim, I think we
-- again, to remember this has been a major threat to U.S. national
security, what's been going on in North Korea. And I think after a
very careful process that former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry
started a couple of years ago, we have followed this out in a careful
way. And if we can, in some way, significantly diminish the threat of
missiles, it's worth doing. And we're just going to see whether they
follow through on what they said to me and whether they talk to Bob
Einhorn and whether there is a value to the President going. But no
decisions have been made on that yet.
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