S. Hrg. 105-241
NORTH KOREAN MISSILE PROLIFERATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL SECURITY,
PROLIFERATION, AND FEDERAL SERVICES
of the
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FIFTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
OCTOBER 21 1997
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Governmental Affairs
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINT OFFICE
00-000 cc WASHINGTON : 1997
_______________________________________________________________________
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office
U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
FRED THOMPSON, Tennessee, Chairman
SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine JOHN GLENN, Ohio
SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas CARL LEVIN, Michigan
PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
DON NICKLES, Oklahoma RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois
ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey
BOB SMITH, New Hampshire MAX CLELAND, Georgia
ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah
Hannah S. Sistare, Staff Director and Counsel
Leonard Weiss, Minority Staff Director
Michal Sue Prosser, Chief Clerk
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL SECURITY, PROLIFERATION AND FEDERAL
SERVICES
THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi, Chairman
SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine CARL LEVIN, Michigan
PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
DON NICKLES, Oklahoma RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois
ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey
BOB SMITH, New Hampshire MAX CLELAND, Georgia
Mitchel B. Kugler, Staff Director
Linda Gustitus, Minority Staff Director
Julie Sander, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
------
Opening statements:
Page
Senator Cochran.............................................. 1
Senator Levin................................................ 2
WITNESSES
Tuesday, October 21, 1997
Ju-Hwal Choi, Former Official, Ministry of the People's Army,
South Korean; accompanied by B.J. Kim, Interpreter............. 3
Prepared statement........................................... 6
Young-Hwan Ko, Former Official, Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
North Korea, accompanied by B.J. Kim, Interpreter.............. 4
Prepared statement........................................... 11
APPENDIX
Questions and responses from Mr. Einhorn submitted by Senator
Cochran........................................................ 33
NORTH KOREAN MISSILE PROLIFERATION
----------
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 1997
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee on International Security,
Proliferation, and Federal Services,
of the Committee on Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:49 a.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thad Cochran,
Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
Present: Senators Cochran and Levin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COCHRAN
Senator Cochran. Good morning. The topic of our
Subcommittee's hearing today is North Korean Missile
Proliferation. The threats posed by North Korea and its
programs to acquire weapons of mass destruction and their
delivery means are formidable. North Korea has long sought to
acquire nuclear weapons, and has even suggested that it may
already have them, threatening in 1994 to turn Seoul into a
``sea of fire'' if hostilities broke out on the Korean
peninsula.
According to the Defense Intelligence Agency, North Korea
has a sophisticated chemical weapons program and the ability to
produce biological warfare agents and weapons, and it has an
aggressive program to develop and deploy the delivery means for
these weapons. It has for some time possessed the ability to
strike all of South Korea with ballistic missiles, and
according to Admiral Preuher, Commander-in-Chief of U.S. forces
in the Pacific, North Korea has already begun to deploy parts
of No-Dong missile systems that are capable of reaching Japan.
But there is another aspect of the North Korean
proliferation problem that is perhaps even more worrisome. In
addition to being a recipient of technology for weapons of mass
destruction and their delivery systems, North Korea is also a
supplier, providing ballistic missiles and their production
technology to other states.
For example, North Korea acquired 300-kilometer-range Scud-
B missiles in 1981, taught itself in a few short years how to
produce them, and then sold them to Egypt, Iran and Syria. It
used the experience gained with the Scud-B to produce the 550-
kilometer-range Scud-C, which it tested in 1990 and sold to
Iran, Syria and Libya. In 1993, it tested the 1,000-kilometer-
range No-Dong 1, which Pentagon officials have reportedly said
is a basis for Iran's longer-range Shahab missiles which could
give Iran the capability to strike as far as Central and
Western Europe.
Because North Korea has exported every missile it has
built, in some cases even before it has deployed them, it is
not unreasonable to assume that it will export the two long-
range missiles it is now developing, the 2000-kilometer Taepo-
Dong 1 and the 6,000-kilometer Taepo-Dong 2. The Taepo-Dong 2's
6,000-kilometer range will make it capable of hitting the
United States from North Korea.
North Korea presents a new wrinkle to the problem of
missile proliferation, one that is different from the other
proliferants this Subcommittee has examined this year. In
addition to the missiles themselves, North Korea has made a
practice of selling the technology needed to produce these
weapons. In doing so, it has created a missile trade among
other states, creating a bootstrap effect in which other states
are becoming self-sufficient with respect to ballistic missile
technology. We can only hope that the North Korean example
hasn't created a template for rogue states.
This phenomenon is likely to continue because North Korea
is desperately dependent on the hard currency generated by the
sales of these weapons. An estimated 30 percent of North
Korea's export income is generated by arms sales, with
ballistic missile technology accounting for a high percentage
of those sales. Ballistic missiles are essentially North
Korea's only cash crop. Because of its dire economic situation,
it is not likely that North Korea will be dissuaded from
marketing that crop.
This hearing, then, will examine the extent of the North
Korean ballistic missile proliferation problem. We have with us
two witnesses who are former North Korean government officials
and who have unique insights into the views of the North Korean
government.
Colonel Ju-Hwal Choi is the highest ranking military
defector from North Korea and served in the Ministry of the
People's Army. Mr. Young-Hwan Ko is a former North Korean
diplomat who served in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Both
are now at the Research Institute for North Korean Affairs in
Seoul and will be testifying today with the assistance of an
interpreter.
Mr. Robert Einhorn, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for
Nonproliferation, was scheduled to testify today, but is unable
to be here because he is in China preparing for next week's
summit meeting. We will therefore submit questions to Mr.
Einhorn for the record.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Questions and responses from Mr. Einhorn submitted by Senator
Cochran appears in the Appendix on page 33.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
We want to introduce, as well, the translator, Mr. Kim, and
welcome him and our two witnesses to the hearing today. But
before receiving your statements, I want to call upon and yield
to my good friend, the distinguished Senator from Michigan,
Senator Levin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LEVIN
Senator Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me add my
welcome to our witnesses today. This hearing concerns an
interest of considerable importance to the United States, and
that is the North Korea missile production and proliferation.
This missile production in North Korea is a problem that is
at least two-fold for us, as the Chairman mentioned. First is
the indigenous efforts in North Korea to develop ballistic
missiles for its own possible use. We have heard a great deal
about these efforts in recent years as North Korea has worked
on both No-Dong and Taepo-Dong classes of missiles with longer
and longer ranges.
But the other dimension is the problem that is created by
North Korea's efforts, and successful efforts, to sell its
missiles and missile technology to other nations, including
nations with hostile policies toward the United States and our
allies. North Korea has supplied missiles and technology to a
number of such nations, motivated probably by the need to earn
hard currency or any kind of assistance, such as oil supplies,
that will help a failing economy. Today's hearing offers us an
unusual opportunity to hear from two former North Korean
officials, and their information is an important piece of a
larger picture that we are trying to develop on North Korea.
And I am glad that we will be submitting questions to Mr.
Einhorn. It would have been helpful if he had been able to be
here, actually, to answer those questions, and perhaps, in
addition to submitting questions for the record, at a later
date, Mr. Chairman, someone from the State Department might be
called at a hearing to give us some fuller information about
the North Korean nuclear weapons program; the framework
agreement, how that is working out, as well as the missile
technology and the missile issue itself.
So I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this important
hearing. It does give us an unusual opportunity to get a window
on a part of the world that has been closed to us.
Senator Cochran. Thank you very much, Senator Levin, and I
agree with you that it is important for us to have testimony
from the State Department and maybe other administration
officials, other departments as well on this subject, and we
will endeavor to get that information for our hearing record.
Let me call on now our distinguished witnesses. Thank you
for being here. First, we will hear from Colonel Choi, and the
way we propose to provide the Subcommittee with testimony is
for them to introduce themselves and have the translator read
into the record the statement that they have prepared.
Welcome, Colonel Choi.
TESTIMONY OF JU-HWAL CHOI, FORMER OFFICIAL, MINISTRY OF THE
PEOPLE'S ARMY, NORTH KOREA; ACCOMPANIED BY B.J. KIM,
INTERPRETER
Mr. Choi. It is a great honor to be able to testify here.
It is a great honor for myself. I entered the North Korean Army
in 1968. I became an officer in 1972. I worked as an officer
for the external affairs bureau of the People's Army from 1972
until 1994.
From January 1995, I worked for Yung-Seong Trading Company
that belongs to the People's Armed Forces. I was a colonel at
the time of defection.
Thank you very much.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Our other witness, Mr. Ko, we can proceed to hear your
introduction.
TESTIMONY OF YOUNG-HWAN KO, FORMER OFFICIAL, MINISTRY OF
FOREIGN AFFAIRS, NORTH KOREA; ACCOMPANIED BY B.J. KIM,
INTERPRETER
Mr. Ko. It is also my great honor to be able to be here.
But I have to confess that I do have a mixed feeling. Right now
my brother inside North Korea is in the political prisoners
camp because of my defection, and what I will say today, a
large part of it will be coming from what he told me before,
and, therefore, through--because of my testimony here, I am
worried whether he will have to bear more pain and suffering
from now on.
I worked for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs from 1978
until 1991. At the time of my defection, I was the first
secretary working for the North Korean Embassy in Congo.
Thank you very much.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Mr. Kim, if you would proceed to read the statements, we
would appreciate that. And we would hear Colonel Choi's
statement first.
Mr. Kim. Yes, that is correct.
[Mr. Kim reading Colonel Choi's statement]
I would like to describe North Korean weapons of mass
destruction.
It is widely known inside North Korea that North Korea has
produced, deployed, and stockpiled two or three nuclear
warheads and toxic material such as over 5,000 tons of toxic
gases. The North Koreans also know that North Korea has
developed and deployed rockets with a range of 1,000
kilometers. The North Korean people also know that the North is
at the final stage of developing rockets with a range of 5,000
kilometers. North Korea acquires powerful and destructive
weapons with political and military purposes in mind. By having
these weapons, the North is able to prevent itself from being
slighted by such major powers as the United States, Russia,
China, and Japan, and also they are able to gain the upper hand
in political negotiations and talks with those superpowers.
On the military front, North Korea can deal a blow to the
40,000 U.S. forces stationed in the South, and they can target
the U.S. defense facilities and the Japanese defense facilities
inside Japan, thereby effectively destroying supply bases in
times of war. With these weapons, the North Korea can attack
the U.S. homeland, starting with Alaska, in a war where there
will be no victor or no loser.
Since the mid-1970s, the North Korea has launched its
efforts to build rockets by itself. As part of the effort, the
North build rocket facilities for Soviet-designed and -produced
Scud missiles, and they began R&D activities for rocket
production in the military academy in Youngseung area of
Pyongyang. As a result, the North was able to produce SS
rockets with a range of 250 to 300 kilometers by the end of the
1980s. According to Vice Marshal and former First Deputy
Minister of People's Armed Forces Kim Kwang-jin, the North
succeeded in developing and producing rockets with a range of
more than 4,000 kilometers. He said that once the North Korea
develops rockets with a range of 1,000 kilometers, it is not so
difficult to develop rockets with a range of 5,000 or over
10,000 kilometer range. He mentioned this when he visited China
as the head of the North Korean military delegation.
There are a number of rocket facilities inside North Korea.
They include the 125 Factory in Pyongyang, the Number 26
Factory in Kangkye of Jakangdo area, the Yakjeon Machinery
Factory in Mankeyungdae, and January 18th factory in Kagamri,
Kaecheon-kun area in the south province of Pyongahn.
The Number 125 Factory was open to the military delegation
from Iraq--I'm sorry--military delegation from Iran and Egypt.
The delegation inspected rocket assembly lines.
Since the North uses mostly mobile rocket launchers, not
fixed ones, it is assumed that the North does not have fixed
rocket launchers.
However, as far as I know, there are intermediate-range
rocket bases in Sangwon-kun in Pyongyang and Hwadae-kun in the
north province of Hamkyung.
North Korea has been engaged in a plan to develop missiles
jointly with Egypt. At the request of Egyptian President
Mubarak, Kim Il-sung in the early 1980s transferred missile
technology to Egypt and dispatched a group of North Korean
experts to the country. The two countries seem to have
maintained this relationship continuously. As a result, Egypt
during the mid-1980s was successful in manufacturing 400-
kilometer range surface-to-surface missiles. I confirmed this
fact in 1989 when I met the chief of the General Bureau of
External Cooperation in the Second Economic Commission in his
office located in Botonggang-kuyok in Pyongyang. At that time I
visited the office on a business related with Vice Marshal Choi
Kwang's scheduled tour to Egypt. Choi at that time was the
chief of the General Staff of the People's Army. He was later
named the Minister of Armed Forces.
North Korea has been exporting missiles to Iran since
before the Iran-Iraq War. North Korea has exported a large
amount of surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles to
Iran.
The Chemical Bureau in the Armed Forces Ministry once
boasted that North Korea has been able to complete the chemical
warfare preparation thanks to Kim Joung-chan.
All officers, including general-level officers, are
obligated to participate in anti-nuclear and anti-chemical
warfare training twice a year, in spring and during the fall.
During this training the experiments are conducted: a dog and a
rabbit are put in separate glass tubes and a poison gas is
blown in, then these animals will die within 20 seconds. These
gas bombs are designed to be delivered by rocket launchers or
howitzer.
Some Americans believe that even if North Korea possessed
the ability to strike the United States, it would never dare to
because of the devastating consequences. But I do not agree
with this idea. If a war breaks out in the Korean Peninsula,
the North's main target will be the U.S. forces based in the
South and Japan. That is the reason why the North has been
working furiously on its missile programs. Kim Jong-il believes
that if North Korea creates more than 20,000 American
casualties in the region, the U.S. will roll back and the North
Korea will win the war.
Thank you very much.
Senator Cochran. Thank you. Mr. Kim, I believe that page
5--4 may have been omitted. It starts out, ``The Production of
Chemical Weapons (The 5th General Bureau).''
Mr. Kim. Yes, I am sorry. Page 4 was mixed in. I missed it.
Could I add page 4?
Senator Cochran. Please do it now.
Mr. Kim. Thank you very much.
The Hamhung Branch and three other institutes under the
Second Natural Science Academy are responsible for research and
production of chemical weapons, and seven factories scattered
throughout the country are manufacturing these weapons as well
as various anti-chemical equipment. The Germ Research Institute
in the military medical department under the General Logistics
Bureau of the Armed Forces Ministry is responsible for
developing biological weapons.
North Korea is currently producing various kinds of poison
gases, including nerve gas, blister gas, among others. These
agents are produced at various factories inside the North
Korea.
Kim Jong-chan, a major who served as an assistant military
attache at the North Korean Embassy in East Germany in late
1970s, is said to have obtained the technical data for
manufacturing extremely poisonous gases from Germany. Based on
this new technology, North Korea has begun to manufacture new
kinds of poison gases since the mid-1980s.
It is said that Dr. Li Sung-gi, who is known to have
developed vinalon, which is a synthetic fiber made from
limestone, have participated in the project to develop the new
gas. Kim Joung-chan made a quick advancement, thanks to his
achievement. He was promoted to the rank of colonel in 1984 and
was named the chief of External Business Affairs Bureau, which
is a position usually occupied by a general-level officer, in
the Armed Forces Ministry.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Choi follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHOI JU-HWAL
Senator Cochran. That concludes the colonel's statement,
and you may proceed to present the statement of Mr. Ko.
Mr. Kim. Thank you. I will make sure the numbers are
correct this time.
[Mr. Kim reading Mr. Ko's statement]
I would like to describe North Korean missiles.
Recognizing the dire need for missile development, Kim Il-
sung established the National Defense University in Hamheung in
1965. After the Pueblo incident in January 1968, it was moved
to the city of Kangkye where defense facilities, these were
concentrated. The elites of the North Korea are screened to
enter the university where they study for 7 years to graduate.
The first department used to be the Department of Missile
Engines. My older brother, the first son of our family,
graduated from the department. The textbooks he had studied
ranged from designs of V-1 and V-2 type missiles to those of
the Soviet-made short-range surface-to-surface missiles,
commonly referred to as Frog missiles.
In 1965, Kim Il-sung said to Kim Chang-bong, who was the
National Defense Minister, the following: ``We must develop
rockets for war. That is why I build the National Defense
University.'' He also said, ``If a war breaks out, the United
States and Japan will also be involved. In order to prevent
their involvement, we have to be able to produce rockets that
fly as far as Japan. Therefore, it is the mandate for the
National Defense University to nurture those personnel who will
develop mid- and long-range missiles.''
These remarks were written on the first page of the
textbooks my brother studied at the university. He graduated
from the university in 1972 and was sent as missile engine
design expert to a design lab in the southern province on
Pyongahn. The lab served as the underground factory producing
engines for missiles, rocket ships, torpedoes, and tanks.
According to my brother, there were over 10,000 people working
in the factory. Since the end of the 1970s, this factor has
begun reverse engineering of Frog missiles.
In 1981, my brother was transferred to the design labs of
the maritime missile factory in Pyongyang. He often told me
that he was involved in the production of missiles which can
destroy the warships of the 7th Fleet of the United States
naval forces which will appear in the East Sea if a war breaks
out on the Korean Peninsula.
According to him, the North conducted test firings of the
missiles on the coastal areas of the Yellow Sea during the
night time in order to avoid detection by the U.S.
reconnaissance satellites.
In 1988, he was transferred to the missile engine design
lab of the National Defense University in the Pyongyang area
where he developed mostly surface-to-surface Scud missiles and
enhanced their capabilities. He said that North Korean missiles
had the capability to cover the entire territory of the South
and the waters of the Korean Peninsula.
He said also that the North purchased the Soviet Union-made
SS missiles, French Exocet air-to-ship missiles, and Stinger
missiles for reverse engineering production purposes.
A number of organizations within the North Korean
Government are responsible for producing and exporting
missiles. The 2nd Economic Committee is responsible for the
defense industry in the North and is composed of 8 general
bureaus, the fourth of which is in charge of missile
production. Within the General Staff, the Maebong Trading
Company is responsible for importing high-tech weapons such as
missiles while the Yongaksan Trading Company is in charge of
exporting North Korean weapons. Another bureau under the
General Staff is responsible for smuggling high-tech weapons.
According to Im Young-sun, a defector from North Korea and
former leader of guard platoon in the Military Construction
Bureau of the People's Armed Forces Ministry, North Korea has
deployed missiles as the following: The Military Construction
Bureau completed the construction of a long-range missile base
in North Pyong-an Province in 1986 and another in North
Hamgyong Province in 1988.
The Taepo-Dong missile base in Hwadae County is an
underground factory with surface-to-surface missiles designed
to hit the Japanese area. For security reasons, all residents
residing in the area within the radius of 80 kilometers of this
base have been ordered to move out.
The Military Construction Bureau started building a missile
base in Chungganjin Province in 1990 and completed the
construction in 1995. This base was targeting the U.S. troops
in Okinawa.
The Military Construction Bureau started constructing an
underground missile base in Kangwon Province in 1991, which was
scheduled to be completed within 6 to 7 years after the
commencement of the work, and this base was targeting Japanese
islands and U.S. military bases inside Japan.
The Military Construction Bureau completed the construction
of a missile base in Mayang Island, South Hamgyong Province, in
late 1980s. Also, the Military Construction Bureau constructed
a missile base designed to cover the west side of Japan.
The Military Construction Bureau completed the construction
of an intermediate-range missile base on Kanggamchan Mountain
located on the opposite side of Kane-po Fisheries Cooperatives
in Jungsan County, which is South Pyongan Province. The time of
construction was 1985. The North Korean Navy also completed the
construction of a surface-to-ship missile base in early 1990 on
the same site.
I believe that MCB, Military Construction Bureau, is
currently constructing a long-range surface-to-surface missile
base in Doksong County, South Hamgyong Province. North Korea
has given various names to the Taepo-Dong missiles, such as
Hwasong-1, which means Mars, Hwasong-2; Moksong, which means
Jupiter, Moksong-1, Moksong-2, and so on.
The organizations responsible for exporting missiles
include the Yongaksan Trading Company and the Changkwang
Trading Company under the Second Economic Commission, the 15th
Bureau, which is the General Bureau of Technology, in the Armed
Forces Ministry, and also Maebong General Bureau in the General
Staff of the People's Army.
I heard the following from Colonel Kim Young-hwan in August
1988 when I was chatting with him at his home. Mr. Kim was one
of my seniors at Pyongyang Foreign Language College. He later
served as a chief of a department in the Daesong General Bureau
and then as the deputy chief of Maebong Trading Company. He
said the following: North Korea has been exporting missiles
mainly to Iran, Syria, Egypt, and Libya. Egypt was North
Korea's main counterpart for developing missiles jointly. Iran
was also a counterpart for developing missiles jointly. Iran
also was buying North Korean missiles, and Syria was buying
North Korean missiles as well.
Colonel Kim Young-hwan also said, ``The export of missiles
occupies the largest portion of North Korea's total export
volume, and that if North Korea is unable to export missiles to
the Middle East countries, then its import of crude oil must be
stopped.'' He also said that North Korea was earning about $1
billion a year when the exports went smoothly.
In February 1991, when I was serving as a member of the
North Korean Embassy in Congo, the Foreign Ministry office in
Pyongyang sent us a telegram message which instructed us
receive a roll of North Korean film and other propaganda
materials from a North Korean cargo ship which sailed out from
the North Korean port of Haeju and was bound for Syria. The
instruction was based on the fact that the cargo ship was
scheduled to stop at the Congolese port. The message also
instructed us to help the cargo ship to refill fuel at the
port. But around that time, the world media began to report
that the North Korean cargo ship seemed to be carrying
missiles, and then Pyongyang ordered the cargo ship to return
home.
Later, the Foreign Ministry sent us a message saying that
the cargo ship returned home for an inevitable reason, and the
materials would be delivered later.
North Korean Ambassador to Congo Ryu Kwan-jin, who was a
close friend of Chang Song-taik, who was Kim Jong-il's brother-
in-law, told me that he once heard Chang saying that North
Korea had been experiencing difficulties in exporting surface-
to-surface missiles to such countries as Syria, Libya, and Iran
because of U.S. reconnaissance satellites, and, therefore,
North Korea was transporting major parts of missiles, important
parts of the missiles, by airplanes.
North Korea has been exporting not only its own missiles
but also missiles produced in third countries. Kim Yang-gon,
who observed as a counselor in charge of trade at the North
Korean Embassy in Zaire in April 1990, told me that North Korea
had been importing silkworm missiles through railroads and then
exporting it to Iran and Syria through sea routes, thus earning
enormous amount of commissions. Kim Jong-il was known to be
satisfied with the trade.
Exporting missiles is crucial to the North Korean economy.
Kim Jong-il regime is likely to continue missile production in
order to attack Republic of Korea, Japan, and the United States
in the times of war and to get oil from Middle Eastern
countries as well. Therefore, I would like to say that we have
to work together to support Republic of Korea to improve its
missile capabilities against North Korea's threat in order to
keep peace inside the Korean Peninsula.
Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Ko follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF KO YOUNG-HWAN
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Mr. Kim, Colonel Choi, Mr. Ko.
Thank you very much for your testimony.
There is a phrase that is often used here in Washington to
describe the impact of new information that is very important.
Some say this is ``just like receiving a wake-up call.'' Well,
to me, this is more than just a wake-up call. I think it is a
call to general quarters. It ought to be considered a grave
matter of national security and it requires a response that is
appropriate to the level of the threat. We must, in my view,
try to emphasize the importance of up-to-date intelligence
information and how important it is to know what is going on,
not only in trade from North Korea to other states in missile
technology, other components of weapons of mass destruction and
the weapons themselves, but we also need to take steps to be
sure that we have the capability and the systems deployed that
will protect U.S. forces and U.S. interests from missile attack
and other weapons of mass destruction. That to me is the lesson
and why I suggest that it is probably more appropriate to say
this should be a call to general quarters and not just a wake-
up call.
Let me ask a couple of questions before yielding to my good
friend from Michigan. You mentioned, both of you, the No-Dong
missile and the possible range that these missiles have. Do you
know or could you tell us what quantities of these missiles
have likely been constructed and will be deployed ultimately?
Mr. Choi. I know for sure since the late 1970s North Korea
has been involved in developing and producing missiles, but,
unfortunately, I do not have exact numbers for quantity and
amount of such missiles produced so far.
Senator Cochran. Do you know how many of these missiles
have been deployed, or if the No-Dong missiles have been
actually deployed?
Mr. Choi. Regarding the deployment of missiles, the
following is what I know: Inside Pyongyang, the Sangwon-kun
area, I know there is one brigade, one missile brigade that has
been deployed. Inside Hamkyung Province, Hwadae-kun area, there
is also another missile brigade that has been deployed.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko, do you have responses to those
questions? Do you have information that would enable you to
answer those same questions about the deployment of the No-Dong
missile and how many may have been constructed or are intended
to be deployed?
Mr. Ko. Since the 1970s, North Korea has been producing
various kinds of surface-to-surface missiles, and the amount,
according to what I know, has been more than the demand that is
needed inside North Korea. Therefore, there have been surplus
supplies that could have been diverted to exports. In terms of
exact amount of these missiles, unfortunately, I do not have
numbers.
As Mr. Choi said, in Hamkyung Province, in Hwadae-kun area,
there is a missile base which is targeting the American armed
forces inside Japan. That I know for sure, but I do not have
the information on numbers of missiles.
Senator Cochran. The experience that we have had here in
the development of missile programs is that there are extensive
flight tests, undertaken before a system is deployed. Can you
tell us whether or not there is such a testing practice in
North Korea? Or is there a different approach to deployment?
Are missiles sometimes deployed before extensive flight
testing?
Mr. Choi. Inside North Korea, first of all, the missile
testing is an extreme secret, and the second point is it is
very costly for them within the limited economic capability
that they have. Therefore, as far as I know, they do not
conduct extensive and multiple rounds of testings for those
missiles.
Also, if I could add, unlike the U.S. missiles, which
require capability for surgical strikes, North Korean missiles
are not designed for such surgical precision. What they are
seeking is impact, and what they are targeting is a general
region rather than specific facilities or so. Therefore, the
precision of the missiles is not a question, a great matter of
importance; therefore, that also is another reason why there is
no extensive testing going on inside North Korea.
And, also, another important point about missile testing is
their purpose to use this as a bargaining chip during the
negotiation with great powers such as the United States. So for
that reason, they do not need multiple testings. One testing
would be enough.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko?
Mr. Ko. My elder brother once told me that United States is
very confident that they can detect everything through the
reconnaissance satellites, but my brother mentioned that that
is a great misunderstanding.
For missile testings, because of the reconnaissance
satellites, what the North Koreans do is they conduct these
testings at night or cloudy days, and sometimes when no such
option is available, they try to do simulated testing.
Senator Cochran. Thank you. Senator Levin.
Senator Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
You made reference, Mr. Ko, to the shipment, a ship that
was being redirected home from Congo, and that was because of
the fear, as I understand it, that--was that because the
satellites might have detected that that freighter carried
missiles? Is that what the fear was? Or was that because of
some other reporting?
Mr. Ko. I could try to repeat what Mr. Ryu Kwan-jin, who
was the Ambassador to Congo, said to us. He said the following:
The Yankees were bothering us, and that is the reason the cargo
ship had to return. And inside the cargo ship, there were
missiles being exported to Syria.
Senator Levin. According to your testimony, Mr. Ko, you
said that North Korea was transporting parts of missiles
instead of whole missiles because of the difficulty of
exporting whole missiles and the fact that that would become
known. And in your written testimony, you said that the parts
of missiles were going to be transported aboard ships. Then
when you testified orally, you used the word ``airplanes.'' I
was confused as to which it was.
Mr. Kim. To clarify, there was a mistake. There was a
mistake that we detected before the hearing, and what he meant
to say was airplanes. Because of the reconnaissance satellites,
they had to use the airplanes.
Senator Levin. So that the missiles then were going to be
shipped in pieces from that point on aboard airplanes; is that
correct?
Mr. Ko. There are large parts of missiles that cannot be
transported through airplanes. Those parts are exported through
the ship with all the camouflage you can think of, and those
parts that could be exported through--transported through the
planes, they do so, as that had been mentioned. And, also,
those parts that they carry on the ships, they use camouflage
and try to use the nighttime.
Senator Levin. Why is the shipment of missiles hidden by
North Korea?
Mr. Ko. North Korea believes that the U.S. has placed
economic sanctions on the side of North Korea, and North Korea
is under great pressure. Therefore, they would like to
circumvent such restrictions. In order to do so, they had to
hide these missiles exports because these exports are important
means of earning dollars and oil from these countries that may
not be very friendly to the United States.
Senator Levin. He made reference to the MTCR. What was that
reference?
In his answer, when he was speaking in Korean, he made
reference----
Mr. Kim. Yes, I was asking what MTCR means, and they cannot
provide a complete name for it, but it sounds like
international norm that restricts missile productions.
Senator Levin. I know what it means, but when he made
reference to it in his answer, you did not in your translation
make reference to it.
Mr. Kim. Yes, that was my mistake. He mentioned briefly the
international norm and pressure placed by the MTCR as well.
That is another factor that is important.
Senator Levin. Mr. Ko said that his brother--let me make
sure. I believe his brother said that the North had purchased
French Exocet missiles, and I am wondering when and from whom
those missiles were purchased.
Mr. Ko. Well, as I said, my brother told me that North
Korea was importing Exocet missiles from French, but better
source of this information is, in 1988, September, General Mr.
Li Su-yon, belonging to the 15th Bureau of People's Armed
Forces, told to me that North Korea has successfully imported
those French Exocet missiles directly.
Senator Levin. From France?
Mr. Ko. I am sorry. He did not say directly. He did not
identify the routes of imports. He just said North Korea
succeeded in importing Exocet missiles from France.
Senator Levin. ``From France,'' did he use the words?
Mr. Ko. What it meant was French-made missiles, not from
France.
Senator Levin. Not necessarily from France.
Mr. Ko. Not necessarily from France.
Senator Levin. He made reference to a joint program between
North Korea and Egypt to develop missiles, and I am wondering
what he can tell us about that program and how long it lasted.
Mr. Choi. In 1989, the Minister of People's Armed Forces,
Choi Kwang, visited Egypt, and at that time I worked for the
speech--transcript of the speech, draft of the speech for the
combined command forces, and I worked for that script by
myself.
When I was working for that draft of speech for the joint
chief of staff, I had to go to the External Economic
Cooperation General Bureau of the Second External Economic
Affairs Committee and had to put together all the related
information regarding North Korea and Egypt joint project on
missile development.
According to the chief of the General Bureau, according to
his words, in 1980, early 1980, based on the request from
Egyptian President Mubarak and based on Kim Il-sung's approval,
North Korea provided the process-related technology, production
process-related technology to Egypt, and also sent a delegation
of experts to Egypt.
Through these joint efforts, it was announced in 1989 that
a missile with a range of 400 kilometers was developed
successfully. The information that I have mentioned so far were
the ones that I saw in that collective material related to the
information packet that I saw while I was working for the joint
chief of staff speech.
Senator Levin. Was that effort still ongoing when he
defected in 1995?
Mr. Choi. The Minister of the People's Armed Forces is not
directly involved in such joint missile development efforts.
Instead, the Second Economic Committee that belongs to the
party directly manages such efforts, so, therefore, I am not
completely sure about such details.
I'd like to emphasize even the Minister of People's Armed
Forces is not well informed of such dealings of missile exports
and joint developments.
Senator Levin. What can our two witnesses tell us about
exports to Iran, specifically what types of missiles, how many
missiles, when were the exports, what kind of technology or
production equipment has been exported to Iran? Just what,
when, what types, so forth, as much specifics as they can give
us.
Mr. Choi. As far as I know, the North Korean missile
exports to Iran began during the Iran-Iraq War. It began during
the Iran-Iraq War. Such missile exports was one of the key
reasons why Iraq and North Korea discontinued their diplomatic
relationship.
The missiles that North Korea exported to Iran included
various kinds of surface-to-surface missiles and surface-to-air
missiles. Regarding the surface-to-surface missiles, I'm not
sure what kind of missiles have been exported, for example,
what kind of Scud missiles, what versions of them have been
exported. But regarding the surface-to-air missiles, I know the
mobile missiles, so-called Hwaseung Chong inside North Korea,
which is similar to or the same as SAM-7 missiles and used to
be produced by the Soviet Union, a large amount of those
missiles have been exported to Iran, and I'm not--I do not have
numbers for exact amount of such export.
Those Hwaseung Chong missiles, the mobile surface-to-air
missiles, was believed to be used when the U.S. helicopter was
shot down in December of 1994.
Of course, the Iranians were not as much interested in
direct imports of the missiles, but they have been much more
interested in learning this technology, and they have been
quite consistent in demanding for such technology to be
transferred from North Korea.
As far as I know, since 1986, Iranian--top commander of
Iranian Revolutionary Forces has visited North Korea three
times since 1986, and one of the key reasons for their visit is
for the transferring of such missile technology from North
Korea to Iran.
But as far as I know, at least until 1995, when I defected,
North Korea did not respond or accept such demand of transfer
of technology to Iran.
Mr. Ko. In April 1988, secretary-level official named
Kwosong-sun, working for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has
told to me the following: The head of Iranian Revolutionary
Armed Forces has visited North Korea repeatedly, and there is a
problem because what they want is the technology and factories
to produce these missiles, and what we want is selling those
missiles to them. Therefore, their interests do not meet
directly.
Senator Levin. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Senator Levin.
Colonel Choi, you mentioned both the No-Dong 1 and No-Dong
2 missiles in your statement. Could you explain the differences
between these two missiles and why North Korea desires to
deploy them?
Mr. Choi. I do not have details, technical details, about
the difference between No-Dong 1 and No-Dong 2. All I know is,
as it's well known, is the difference in the range. The reason
for the deployment of these missiles, I believe, is to hit the
supply bases and also naval bases located inside Japan, bases,
I think United States base, as well as both Japanese and
American supply and naval bases located inside Japan and
Okinawa and Guam area.
The North Koreans believe that when a war occurs, it will
take about 20 to 30 days for the United States to transport the
necessary forces to the ship all the way to the Korean
Peninsula.
Before the U.S. supplies reaches Korean Peninsula in 20 to
30 days, North Korea aims to overtake the entire area of
southern side of peninsula, and I believe the missiles, such
missiles will serve a very useful purpose in doing so.
In other words, those missiles will be used to prevent the
U.S. supplies reaching the Korean Peninsula and, therefore,
ensuring the complete victory for North Korea.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Mr. Ko, do you know what the intended targets of the No-
Dong will be? Can you confirm what Colonel Choi has said, or do
you have any additional information that you could add to that?
Mr. Ko. It is a well-known fact to me because I heard this
through my brother, as I said before--and also through the
other officials, my colleagues inside the Ministry of Foreign
Affairs, and also friends in the Ministry of People's Armed
Forces. It is a well-known fact that Kim Il-sung, when he
established the National Defense University in 19--as early as
1965, Kim Il-sung had said that North Korea should develop
rockets and missiles to hit U.S. forces inside Japan. And
regarding the U.S. forces inside South Korea, North Korea--it
is a well-known fact that North Korea will use short-range
missiles and other missiles and rockets in order to have
casualties of somewhere between 10,000 to 20,000, and even more
casualties in the side of U.S. forces in order to have anti-war
sentiments to rise inside the United States and cause the
withdrawal of U.S. forces in the time of war.
Senator Cochran. Although my question related specifically
to the No-Dong 1 and No-Dong 2 missiles, when you're talking
about using missiles on targets in South Korea, are you
referring to Scud missiles as well? And if so, will these
targets that you mention be the same in the use of Scud
missiles in South Korea?
Mr. Ko. Yes, basically what you're saying is correct. No-
Dong 1 and No-Dong 2 are primarily designed to target U.S.
forces inside Japan, Okinawa, and Sasebo area, and talking
about the short-range missiles, yes, Scud missiles are the ones
that will be used basically to hit the U.S. forces inside South
Korea, and they will be also used in the multiple rocket
launchers as well on the side.
Senator Cochran. Colonel Choi, do you have any other
information about how Scud missiles may be targeted in South
Korea to ports or air bases, command and control facilities?
Mr. Choi. I cannot recall exactly the year, but I believe
it was either in 1987 or in 1988 there was a delegation from
the Soviet Union Air Defense Command to North Korea, and I had
to be acting as an interpreter, Russian language, for the
Minister of People's Armed Forces, Ojin Uh, and that was the
first time for me to be allowed into the North Korean Air
Defense Command underground.
I saw a map inside the air command, underground air
command, a map that covers the entire area of Korean Peninsula,
and for the southern part of the map, I could see the
strategical targets for air strikes.
By saying air strikes, I do not exclude missile strikes as
well.
There were three main targets of attack, and they were: No.
1, Seoul and Inchon area; No. 2, Taejon area; and, No. 3, Ulsan
area. Therefore, based on what I saw on the map, I believe the
main targets in using Scud missiles will be also those three
areas of Seoul-Inchon, Taejon, and Ulsan.
Senator Cochran. Do you know how many Scud missiles and
what types of Scud missiles North Korea possesses now?
Mr. Choi. Again, I do not have numbers for the Scud
missiles produced and specific information on the kinds of Scud
missiles produced. But I could tell you that since 1978, inside
People's Armed Forces command ranks, there has been a position
for rocket and missile-related deputy commander position that
has been in place since 1978.
And, also, in 1993, North Korea opened a new university, a
defense university, specifically devoted to the development of
rockets and missiles, and this institute, as I said, was opened
in 1993. So, therefore, I believe the amount that has been
produced has to be significant.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko, do you have information about the
numbers and types of Scud missiles in North Korea at the
present time?
Mr. Ko. I recall a conversation that took place between
myself and Kang Zok Ju, the Principal Deputy Minister of
Foreign Affairs. I recall the date was September 8, 1988. I
asked him during the conversation, ``Why are we exporting these
missiles, including Scud missiles. Is it because we have enough
supply here inside North Korea or is it because of some other
reasons.'' And Mr. Kang Zok Ju replied to me, ``It is obvious
that we can export missiles, including Scuds, overseas because
we have enough supply inside North Korea.'' That is the
information I can tell you, but unfortunately I do not have
numbers.
Senator Cochran. There is a statement--I think it is in
Colonel Choi's prepared statement--about North Korea being in
the final stages of the development for the 5,000-kilometer-
range Taepo-Dong missiles. When would they be deployed, if you
know, and what would be their intended targets?
Mr. Choi. Two things. Number one, regarding the missiles
with 5,000-kilometer range, it has been generally discussed and
mentioned to the general public of North Korea. That is all I
know about the missiles of 5,000-kilometer range.
But in 1991, Mr. Kim Kwang-jin, whom I mentioned--let me
correct myself. In 1993, Kim Kwang-jin, whom I mentioned during
my testimony, has specifically mentioned to me about 4,000-
kilometer missiles production and development, and he told me
that we are expecting a completion of such development fairly
soon. Mr. Kim Kwang-jin told me that during our visit through
China as a North Korean military delegation to Beijing. Mr. Kim
Kwang-jin, during the trip when he told me about these missiles
with 4,000-kilometer range, did not mention specifically names
such as Taepo-Dong or some other names.
One point that I would like to reemphasize which was
included in my testimony is he said at that time during our
conversation--Mr. Kim Kwang-jin during our trip to China said
it is almost no problem to produce longer-range missiles once
we reached to the point where we could produce missiles with
1,000-kilometer range. There is not much difference between
missiles with 1,000-kilometer range and 5,000-kilometer range
from his perspective. I do not know whether any missiles with
4,000-kilometer range have been developed and actually
deployed.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko, do you have any information on
that subject?
Mr. Ko. Honestly speaking, I never heard about the name
Taepo-Dong while I was inside North Korea, and still I do not
understand where the name comes from. I imagine I first heard a
name that was originated from the U.S. sources. As far as I
know, naming missiles inside North Korea--they use names of
planets, usually, like Hwasong-1, Jupiter; Moksong-1 and 2,
like Mars, and things like that.
Senator Cochran. Do you know anything about the intended
targets for the long-range missiles?
Mr. Kim. Mr. Chairman, are you asking the targets of the
long-range missiles?
Senator Cochran. Yes.
Mr. Kim. OK.
Mr. Ko. Regarding the targets for long-range missiles that
North Korea is trying to develop or has already developed, as
far as I know the primary target, number one target, is U.S.
military facilities inside Japan. And the second target would
be the facilities inside Guam, and as far as I know they are
also seeking to strike areas such as Alaska.
Mr. Choi. This has never been formally announced, but
inside the People's Armed Forces in North Korea it is common
knowledge that the ultimate goal for the development of North
Korean missiles is to reach the mainland of the United States.
In discussing such ultimate goal amongst the officers of
the People's Armed Forces, there are saying once we reach that
ultimate goal, we should use chemical and nuclear weapons and
deliver a fatal blow to the United States, to the mainland of
the United States. And it is a common thing to talk about such
future amongst the general officers of the People's Armed
Forces.
Senator Cochran. Senator Levin.
Senator Levin. Thank you.
Relative to nuclear weapons, I guess, Mr. Ko, you were
quoted as saying that you are not a hundred percent sure that
North Korea has a nuclear bomb, but that they are trying to get
a nuclear bomb. Do you think it is possible or likely that they
have two or three weapons already, or don't you know?
Mr. Ko. I think the question should go to Mr. Choi.
Senator Levin. Well, I would like to ask both of them. Let
me start with Mr. Ko. He was quoted as saying that he is not
sure that North Korea has a nuclear bomb and I would like to
know what he knows of his own knowledge.
Mr. Ko. I think regarding the fact whether North Korea for
sure has nuclear capability or not at this point will be only
known to the supreme commander, Kim Jong-il. But during the
time while I was working for the Foreign Ministry for 13 years,
every year we had to deal with a so-called plan for national
development and prosperity.
In that, one of the items that comes up at the beginning is
mentioning that all the embassies in all countries, their
primary--one of the key missions is in seeking nuclear
technology and I had to deal with that every year.
Mr. Choi. I would like to add something. From 1979 until
1982, I was a deputy military attache at the North Korean
embassy in Czechoslovakia. While I was in Czechoslovakia during
those years, I was getting orders to obtain the technology and
equipment including some welding rods for welding the nuclear
reactors, and also I was getting orders to obtain materials
such as a sample of laser rod to use the laser-related weapons,
which has little to do with the nuclear technology.
I carried out those orders and I got decorated because I
could send, fortunately, the following. I sent about 21
different special welding rods that had to do with the nuclear
reactor welding, and also I could send the documentation
regarding the nuclear reactor welding technology. And, also, I
was successful in obtaining the equipments relating to the
laser technology.
I got so-called gas laser rod, and also small--I think it
is a conductor, circuit-related conductors. The French made
such conductors, circuit conductors, that had to do with the
laser technology and I was able to send those to North Korea,
and as a result I was decorated. The circuit conductor I was
referring to was the diodes.
Senator Levin. Does Colonel Choi agree with Mr. Ko that
only the supreme commander of the People's Army would know for
sure whether or not North Korea has nuclear weapons?
Mr. Choi. I had a lot of experience to travel with the top
commanders of People's Army and had to work with them all the
time. I never heard specifically how many nuclear warheads and
in what kind of forms that North Korea--never heard that,
whether North Korea has such capability in specific forms and
numbers.
At the time of death of Kim Il-sung, Kim Jong-il had said
that if war occurs and if we are about to lose, we will destroy
everything on earth, and this comment has been widely shared
and announced throughout North Korea. That, I believe, is
another indicator for the possibility that North Korea already
has nuclear capability, but nobody has seen it or can confirm
it for sure.
Also, as you well know, North Korea has withdrawn from the
Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. At that time, inside the People's
Armed Forces, the officers, my colleagues were saying openly
that the reason why North Korea joined the treaty at the
beginning was to earn more time for the development of nuclear
weapons. And since we have withdrawn, there is no reason to
observe the treaty anymore, since we seem to have the
capability and it is nonsense to remain under the obligations
of the treaty. They are openly saying that.
Senator Levin. Does he believe that the 1993 framework
agreement stopped any further production?
Mr. Choi. I absolutely do not believe that the framework's
agreement had such impact on North Korean efforts for nuclear
development at all. As far as I understand, the inspection team
visited North Korea based on the framework agreement. I do not
think they had a chance to inspect underground facilities, and
I believe they only inspected the above-the-ground-level
facilities and I believe all the critical and important
facilities are underground. Therefore, they didn't really see
anything from my perspective. I believe those underground
nuclear facilities will never be open to outsiders under any
circumstances.
Senator Levin. And South Korea knows where they are?
Mr. Choi. I don't know how much the South Korean side knows
about this, but when I was inside North Korea I heard that such
facilities were generally located around the Youngbyon area.
One of the evidence to support such speculation, believing that
most of the facilities are locating in the Youngbyon area, is I
know for a fact in 1993 the People's Armed Forces--the guarding
around that area was upgraded from battalion level to brigade
level in 1993. I believe such a decision was made based on the
possibility of spy activities, to prevent such activities.
Senator Levin. And where precisely was that?
Mr. Kim. That is the Youngbyon area where the lightwater--
--
Senator Levin. No, but where near Youngbyon? Where
precisely was that underground facility that had increased
protection?
Mr. Choi. The district or area inside the Youngbyon area is
called Bun-gang area and that's a special district where no one
from outside can enter, and my brother-in-law used to work as a
part of police force guarding that Bun-gang area inside
Youngbyon. My brother-in-law was in charge of inspecting the
people going and coming out of the special area, inspecting
what kind of documents they are carrying, whether they are
carrying any secret documents.
Senator Levin. Is he still there in North Korea.
Mr. Choi. Since I mentioned such factors relating to my
brother-in-law at the time when I had the press conference
after my defection, I do not believe he is there anymore.
According to what I heard from my brother-in-law at that time
when I was in North Korea, in that Bun-gang area they were
developing and producing laser technology, as well as the
nuclear-related technology and products.
Senator Levin. Just one final question. Colonel Choi, you
mentioned that there are two brigades of missiles that have
been deployed. Can you tell us what types of missiles have been
deployed with those two brigades and what the ranges of those
missiles are, if you know?
Mr. Choi. Regarding the missile brigade that is located in
the Sangwan area, the brigade commander was a good friend of
mine from same school. He went to the rocket institute inside
the Soviet Union. He graduated from there in 1986 and he became
the commander, brigade commander, of that Sangwan missile base.
Later on, he was executed with the accusation being a Soviet
spy, a spy from the Soviet Union.
Unfortunately, I do not, however, have specific numbers or
information regarding what kind of missiles that he had inside
his missile brigade.
Senator Levin. He mentioned two brigades. Does he know
anything about the other brigade?
Mr. Choi. Unfortunately, I do not have any specific
information about the other brigade.
Senator Levin. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Cochran. Thank you, Senator Levin.
Let me ask you a few questions about the export policies
and programs of North Korea. Could you tell us the number of
countries and the identity of these countries who have
purchased Scud-type missiles from North Korea?
Mr. Choi. All I know is that North Korea has been exporting
those missiles, including Scud missiles, to Iran and Syria,
mainly. But, unfortunately, I do not have specific information.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko?
Mr. Ko. I know Libya also has imported some quantity,
limited quantity of Scud missiles, but I know the main
importers of North Korean Scud missiles have been Iran and
Syria.
Senator Cochran. Do you have any information about how many
missiles have been purchased by each country?
Mr. Choi. No.
Mr. Ko. No.
Senator Cochran. There were some recent news reports that
Iran is building new intermediate-range missiles which are
based upon the No-Dong design. Do you know if Iran has
purchased the No-Dong missile from North Korea or if North
Korea is assisting Iran in developing intermediate-range
missiles?
Mr. Choi. Since 1986, the delegation from the Iranian
revolutionary forces have visited North Korea three times and
they have been asking for--it has been well-known among the
officials inside the People's Armed Forces in North Korea that
they have been asking for missile technology. The consensus
inside the North Korean People's Armed Forces was that it was
too early and premature to hand over such production technology
and factories.
But as I mentioned earlier, the Second Economic Committee
inside the party is responsible for such operation and I do not
know how they responded to this demand. Until the time I was
there at least, I don't think North Korea was responding
favorably in terms of transferring such development technology.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko?
Mr. Ko. I do not have much information about that.
Senator Cochran. There was a report that Libya had
contacted North Korea about a 1,000-kilometer-range missile. Do
you know if North Korea has cooperated with Libya on the
development or the sale of a 1,000-kilometer missile, and if
so, what is the status of that program?
Mr. Choi. Unfortunately, we do not have any information.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko?
Mr. Ko. No.
Senator Cochran. How does North Korea transport its
missiles to Iran, Syria and Libya? I know you have had some
conversation with Senator Levin about the use of airplanes or
ships. What is the current practice, if you know, how these
missiles are transported?
Mr. Ko. What I mentioned to Senator Levin was what I heard
before my defection, and unfortunately after my defection, I
haven't had the chance to deal with such information at all.
Mr. Choi. While I was working for the North Korean People's
Armed Forces, I knew as a fact that there is an airport called
Sun-an Airport, and cargo planes come in for the purpose of
transporting those exported items of weapons overseas. And when
they come in, they usually use students from the nearby Kangun
Military Academy at night so that they will avoid detection
from the U.S. side.
And they use those cargo planes extensively, and as I
mentioned before, the missiles--the large parts, I know for a
fact, were transported through ships and some several key items
that could fit into the cargo planes were transported through
those cargo planes.
Senator Cochran. Other than receiving money for the sale of
missiles and parts and components, do you know of any other
things of value that North Korea has received from those whom
it has sold technology and components?
Mr. Choi. In 1994, North Korean Air Force Commander Cho
Meong Loc visited Iran and they signed an agreement. According
to this agreement--based on this agreement, North Korea
promised to supply the Soviet--the airplane parts that have to
do with the Soviet-made airplanes--North Korea will provide
those parts, airplane parts, and in return Iran promised to
provide the fuel for airplanes.
I recall--probably, it was late 1993, North Korea sent 28-
member technical assistance team to Libya and they were
supposed to help Libya in repairing the Mig-25, 23, airplanes,
and also other artillery equipments produced by the former
Soviet Union. And I think in return for this, that delegation
dispatchment to Libya, North Korea received oil from Libya, and
I think such arrangement is still going on.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko, you mentioned when you were posted
in the Congo, one of the requirements of your job was to seek
and try to obtain nuclear weapons, component parts, or
technology, and the like. Do you recall any trades like that
being undertaken between North Korea and other countries where
North Korea would sell one kind of military technology in
exchange for nuclear technology or any other kind of military
technology?
Mr. Ko. Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to hear
other stories.
Senator Cochran. OK. Thank you.
In the case of chemical and biological weapons programs, I
think you mentioned, Colonel Choi, that North Korea produces
toxic gas. What kinds of chemical agents does North Korea
possess, and how would they be used?
Mr. Kim. Mr. Chairman, there could be a difficulty in
translating those names, but I will do my best based on what I
hear.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Mr. Kim. Some of them are Korean. Some of them are based on
German and different languages, but Mr. Choi has mentioned
three different kinds of gases. Number one, gases that act on
the nerve system--I will give you names, chadin, choman, tifun,
and vee gases--that acts on nerve system.
And, also, there are gases that act on the skin, blistering
gases, eprid and luisid, or such names that were mentioned by
Mr. Choi.
OK. Regarding the skin destruction, those are not
necessarily gases. Any material that if it touches the skin, it
could destroy the skin.
And, also, third kinds of toxic material act on human blood
system, and the names he gave me was chungsun, yomashun--those
are Korean names--and also several other names that acts on the
blocking and destroying blood circulation system of human
being.
Senator Cochran. How are these delivered?
Mr. Kim. Those will be delivered through missiles, rockets,
and also ulterior shots.
Senator Cochran. Is it a part of the North Korean military
doctrine to use these chemical agents in case of hostile action
with South Korea or to deliver them as far as Japan or other
places? Where will they be delivered?
Mr. Kim. North Korean military personnel are trained under
this doctrine, or they are trained with--that they are told
repeatedly that there are several nuclear--so-called nuclear
backpacks, 57 of them--he happened to give me the name--nuclear
backpacks and other nuclear equipments inside South Korea,
provide United States, and they are also told there are several
thousand tons of toxic gases, also provided by the United
State, being stored inside South Korea.
They say, therefore, it is natural for North Korea to
respond to the enemy that already has nuclear and these
biochemical capabilities in kind, use the nuclear and
biochemical weapons on the side of North Korea. It is natural
for them.
And, also, the targets not only include the U.S. forces and
the South Korean forces inside South Korea, but, also, they are
targeting U.S. forces and also Japanese forces in Japan,
Okinawa, and other parts around the area.
Senator Cochran. Do you know whether there is any specific
doctrine about the use of a first strike, initiating hostile
action with the use of chemical or biological weapons?
Mr. Choi. I have not seen or hear such documentation on
using biochemical weapons in the first strike.
Senator Cochran. What types of missiles, if you know, would
be used to carry these weapons? What kind of warheads?
Mr. Kim. What kind of missiles?
Senator Cochran. Missiles that would carry warheads with
weapons of mass destruction.
Mr. Choi. The kinds of missiles that they are developing
and producing will be used for delivery of such biochemical
weapons and also weapons of mass destruction such as nuclear
warheads.
I believe all they have to do is just change those
warheads. For specific purpose and for a specific range, they
just have to choose a different kind of missiles to reach the
target.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko, you mentioned in response to a
question asked by Senator Levin that there was a joint
development program involving North Korea and Egypt in missile
development. Is this a current ongoing program, or has that
been terminated?
Mr. Choi. As I mentioned, until the time of 1989, when I
was working for that speech for the commander for the Army
forces, I knew for sure such cooperation was going on between
North Korea and Egypt.
After that, I do not have such information, but I would
suspect, based on my knowledge and general relation between
Egypt and North Korea--I would suspect that such cooperation
for missile and other developments or effort is still going on.
To add another information, in 1989, a one-star general
from the North Korean Army was working inside Egypt for that
specific rocket, the missile co-development between Egypt and
North Korea.
The person who was sent to Egypt at that time, 1989, he got
that one-star general--military two-star general, military
rank, even though he was basically a civilian. It was used.
Such military rank was used to serve that specific purpose.
And there was also a colonel from the military residing
inside Egypt. The importance of mission, he got--I believe he
got that two-star military rank, and there was a continuous
conflict between that colonel and the general, and it was quite
a well-known fact.
Senator Cochran. I think you mentioned that there was an
exchange agreement between North Korea and Iran with respect to
oil and fuel for planes and military use in exchange for
missiles and missile technology. Have there been any other
examples of mutual assistance for military purposes with other
countries? China, for example, has there been a relationship of
that kind of China, or the Soviet Union or Russia?
Mr. Kim. Mr. Chairman, could I request about a 30-second
break for myself and I will be right back?
Senator Cochran. Yes. Let's make that 5 minutes. How about
that?
Mr. Kim. OK.
Senator Cochran. A 5-minute break. Let's have a 5-minute
break.
[Recess.]
Senator Cochran. If we are all set, we can return to order
and commence our hearing again.
Let me ask both of you, in connection with this mutual
assistance relationship that exists between North Korea and
some countries, has there been any success or even efforts made
by North Korea to recruit missile or weapons experts from
Russia or other states from the old Soviet Union to help in
missile and weapons development in North Korea?
Mr. Choi. I heard after the collapse of the Soviet Union,
the collapse of the Soviet Union around the time of 1991, there
were nuclear experts from Russia, two of them, who were
naturalized in terms of getting North Korean citizenship, and I
was told that they were residing in a house around the Taedong
area inside Pyongyang, and they were using a house that used to
be occupied by a well-known actress and a movie director who
were kidnapped by North Korea.
Senator Cochran. Mr. Ko?
Mr. Ko. What I would like to say to you right now may have
little to do with what you ask, but it is just that I would
like to tell you for your information.
In 1971, I was hospitalized in a hospital that was
specifically designed for high-government officials, and there
was a very well-known scientist, Dr. Li Seung-Gee, who also was
hospitalized in that hospital at the same time. And he was
boasting about the fact that he got a title, a hero title from
Kim Il sung for developing chemical weapons--developing
chemical weapons, and in return, as a reward, along with the
hero title, he changed all his teeth covering with 18K gold.
Senator Cochran. Well, let me ask you if you know whether
North Korea has imported specialized materials that it needs
for producing missiles and where those materials have come
from.
Mr. Ko. I heard from the people who are working in the
Japan section of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that the
electronic chips that were used for these missiles were mostly
imported through the Chosen Soren which is an organization of
Japanese Koreans inside Japan. So they were imported from Japan
from Chosen Soren.
Mr. Kim. Mr. Choi does not have any information on that.
Senator Cochran. There was a comment you made about getting
an Exocet missile from France. How was that done, and what was
the purpose for getting that missile?
Mr. Ko. I do not have information on the process of
importing Exocet missiles. I only heard it from my colleague.
Exocet missiles, I was told it was smuggled from Afghanistan
through Moscow and then imported to--transported to North
Korea.
Senator Cochran. You mentioned that North Korea had been
used by China and paid a commission to sell certain cruise
missiles to Iran and Syria. Do you know if China has also
exported ballistic missiles or technology to other countries
through North Korea?
Mr. Ko. I heard at that time with regard to those
missiles--when I heard that North Korea was acting as an
intermediary for those silkworm missiles, I asked my superior
why do we not do the reverse engineering and develop a missile,
sort of like a silkworm, and I was told by my superior that we
already have a missile that is better than silkworm, so there
is no reason to. All we have to do is just--through those
intermediary roles, but I do not have any other information
about North Korea acting as intermediary for other Chinese
arms.
Senator Cochran. How was North Korea able to reverse-
engineer missiles like the Scud missile while other countries
like Libya and Egypt seem to have been unable to do so? Did
North Korea have special assistance in the engineering to
accomplish this?
Mr. Choi. As far as I know, there was a significant number
of students, military officials as students sent to North Korea
to the Soviet Union to study in these rocket and missile
institutes inside the Soviet Union. That was during the 1960's,
and the number was significant.
Therefore, considering the exchange programs and
activities, I would presume such support from Soviet Union was,
indeed, significant.
Senator Cochran. To what extent are there present in North
Korea or in the recent past have there been present in North
Korea, technicians, engineers, scientists from China or Russia
involved in a military defense institute or academies or
universities that are involved in military weapons development
and the like?
Mr. Choi. I do not have any knowledge.
Mr. Kim. Mr. Ko said he did not hear anything about Chinese
engineers working for rocket development or missile development
inside North Korea. He did not hear that.
Senator Cochran. Or chemical and biological weapons.
You mentioned the one person who was in the hospital with
you who got a new set of gold teeth out of the deal. Are there
any other examples like that, that you know of, or any people
working in that area now from other countries?
Mr. Kim. The person who got the gold teeth was a famous
North Korean scientist, but I will ask.
Senator Cochran. Oh, I see. I thought he was from Russia.
Mr. Kim. His name was Dr. Li.
Mr. Choi. I never heard of any foreigners working inside
North Korea.
Mr. Kim. Mr. Ko said that I believe probably North Koreans
are better in developing such technology by themselves other
than learning from others.
Senator Cochran. Thank you.
Has North Korea used the U.S. Global Positioning System,
called GPS, to improve missile accuracy? Do you know?
Mr. Choi. I have not heard anything having to do with GPS
system, but while I was inside North Korea, I was told that
there is a Space Research Institute inside the People's Armed
Forces that study stars, and they were going to use their
knowledge of a constellation to control and target those
missiles when they launch those missiles.
Senator Cochran. Do you know where this technology was
coming from? Was it coming from China, or Russian sources?
Mr. Choi. I believe there was close cooperation between the
research institute and the Soviet Union.
Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, the research
institute was regularly receiving the satellite images of the
Korean Peninsula from the Soviet Union through the Soviet
satellites, but, however, after its collapse, I am not sure
where North Korea would be getting such source.
This kind of astronomical- or aerospace-related technology,
North Korea also worked together with Romania.
Senator Cochran. We talked about the military doctrine with
respect to the use of chemical agents in warfare. What is the
doctrine with respect to the use of nuclear weapons? You
mentioned that in your opinion, North Korea had the capacity to
develop--or has nuclear weapons now. I think you said that,
Colonel Choi. What is the doctrine for the use of nuclear
weapons?
Mr. Choi. I have not seen any written military doctrine on
this use of nuclear weapons, but it is general knowledge and
consensus inside the People's Armed Forces that it is natural
for North Korea to use nuclear weapons because the opponent,
the enemy, meaning the United States, has the nuclear
capability.
North Korea believes in the time of attack, the United
States will use a small nuclear weapon to destroy the North
Korean brigade, and such small-sized nuclear weapon will be
aimed to destroy about 30 to 40 percent of the one-brigade-unit
forces of North Korea, and based on this belief, they have
plans to resupply these forces that will be destroyed under the
U.S. nuclear attacks on these brigade units.
Senator Cochran. Would there be a plan to retaliate by
using a nuclear weapon if the North Korean forces are attacked
with nuclear weapons?
Mr. Choi. Absolutely, yes. In that case, North Korea will
respond to nuclear arms.
Senator Cochran. Are there any specific plans that you know
about for using nuclear weapons as a preemptive measure or to
surprise and to annihilate opposition forces?
Mr. Choi. Unfortunately, since I had little to do with
nuclear strategy, unfortunately, I am not in the position to
tell you anything. I do not have any knowledge about that.
Senator Cochran. I think you or Mr. Ko may have mentioned
that in the likelihood of a destruction of the regime in North
Korea that they would be prepared to destroy everything, and
that that is one reason why you think that there is a nuclear
weapons capability in North Korea now. Are there any other
reasons why you think that we should take the threat to use
nuclear weapons seriously?
Mr. Choi. When I was mentioning Kim Jong Il's words to his
father, Kim Il Sung, I would like to make it clear that he did
not specifically mention nuclear weapons, but everybody in
North Korea, most people took his words as an indication that
North Korea has a capability to ``destroy''--the words in
quotes.
Second is I would suppose that another important reason for
North Korea seeking or in using nuclear capability is political
purpose. It is a power and prestige question, and since all the
powers surrounding the Korean Peninsula do have nuclear
capability, China, Russia, and the United States, it seems to
be critical for North Korea to have such capability in order to
enhance its power position as well.
Senator Cochran. Do you think the potential threat to use
nuclear weapons against North Korea from the U.S. or anyone
else would have the effect of deterring or keeping North Korea
from using nuclear weapons in the first place?
Mr. Choi. I cannot tell you about the detailed thinking
about this deterrence question, North Korea thinking, they
cannot use nuclear weapons because others have it. I am not
sure what they are thinking, but I could presume that North
Korea, since basically the Korean Peninsula itself is a
homeland, it is reluctant in using nuclear capability in a not-
so-careful manner. Therefore,I think they are more inclined in
using the nuclear capability as a last resort.
Officially, inside North Korea, it is being often said that
Japan would not have lost the war to the United States if it
had the nuclear capability at the end of World War II.
Senator Cochran. Senator Levin asked you some questions
about the negotiations that are underway and the framework
agreement that involves North and South Korea, as well as the
U.S. Do you think it is likely that negotiations and agreements
of that kind will actually make any changes in the North Korean
willingness to develop and continue to develop and possibly to
use weapons of mass destruction?
Mr. Ko. I do not believe the talks between the United
States and North Korea will make any difference. As long as Kim
Jong Il is in power, he is a person who likes to think about
war all the time. As long as he is in power, I do not think
that just the talks will make any difference in terms of
developing and producing weapons of mass destruction.
The only way to control or limit North Korea in doing so
would be strengthening the force level of the United States,
the forces inside South Korea, and also strengthening the South
Korean missile capabilities as well as a deterrence measure.
Mr. Choi. I firmly believe that North Korea will not make
any change in their development efforts of weapons of mass
destruction only because there is a pressure from the United
States. Such kind of pressure from the United States will not
work for this purpose.
They will be using this question of developing and
producing weapons of mass destruction in relation with the
withdrawal of U.S. forces from the Korean Peninsula, meaning
they will be using these issues as a bargaining chip.
They may propose that they may think about giving up such
developing and producing efforts of weapons of mass destruction
if the U.S. agrees to withdraw U.S. forces from South Korea,
but I do like to emphasize that North Korea is interested in
talks with the United States. The purpose doing so is
changing--through the talks, they want to change the current
armistice to a peace treaty and would like to induce the
withdrawal of 40,000 U.S. forces from South Korea.
And as you may already know, on the 17th of this month,
there was a kidnapping instance of civilians in the DMZ zone, a
kidnapping by the North Korean armed forces. I believe such
effort is an effort to have more chances to talk to the United
States directly so that they can pursue the purpose of changing
armistice--this is to a peace treaty, and then inducing a
withdrawal of U.S. forces.
North Koreans, for sure, will continue to use these
questions of weapons of mass destruction and other related
issues as a bargaining chip to seek their ultimate goal, which
is seeing a withdrawal of 40,000 U.S. military forces from
South Korea.
Senator Cochran. Let me ask you this. There is obviously a
serious economic problem in North Korea. I was a member of a
delegation led by Senator Stevens, 6 months ago, which went to
North Korea, and we had talks with a number of members of the
government while we were there, and we were able to observe
some of the difficulties caused by the food shortages. We were
only in Pyongyang. We were not able to spend time out in the
countryside, but my question is, if the economic problems
continue to become worse and there is an imminent collapse in
the country being faced by this regime, do you think there is a
possibility or a likelihood that they might lash out with the
military to provoke a war or confrontation, a military action,
as an excuse for mobilizing and beginning a war with South
Korea as a matter of just sheer desperation? Is that something
that is possible or likely in your judgment?
Mr. Ko. First of all, I do not believe the food situation
in North Korea is as serious as what we used to observe in
Somalia.
I believe the process of collapse, the long-term collapse
has already started inside North Korea. The collapse of the
system has already started, but I do not believe there will be
a complete collapse in the short run because of their strong
political control of the people. So we will not see an
authorizing of any kind in the short run.
And I believe, as you mentioned, it is quite likely that
they will resort to a war as a way to get out of desperation
towards the end when they are approaching the complete
collapse. It is more likely because when Kim Jung Il is looking
at the situation, the political situation in South Korea, he
observes that several former presidents go to jail after the
completion of their term. So he will also believe that if his
system collapses, he will not be left alone and safe.
Therefore, there is also another reason for him to try a war at
the end.
Mr. Choi. I believe there are three likely scenarios of
North Korea starting a war. The most likely one is following
the withdraw of U.S. troops from South Korea. The second
possibility is if there is a large-scale war, either regional
or worldwide-scale war, sort of like the Gulf War, that could
divert both the attention and capability of the U.S. military
forces away from the Korean Peninsula, I think it is likely.
The third scenario is if South Korea experiences political
turmoil or chaos that resembles to the level of the April 19th
movement during the 1960's that changed regime and also the May
18th movement that also changed the regime around the 1980's,
when such political turmoil occurs inside South Korea, I think
it is likely that North Korea will contemplate on the
possibility of starting a war.
As long as the 40,000 U.S. military forces stays inside
South Korea, North Korea will be extremely careful and will be
very calculating before thinking about the possibility of
starting a war, but, of course, as the Chairman mentioned,
towards the end, if Kim Jung Il sees no other choice, then he
will just start--or he is likely to start a war under any
circumstances.
Some people believe here in the United States and in Korea
that North Korea's complete collapse could come in 2 or 3
years. I do not agree with such prediction. I do not think such
short-term collapse is likely. The collapse will come in the
long term, and, also, I cannot set aside the possibility of
North Korea being revised as well, based on my knowledge about
the North Korean system.
Senator Cochran. Thank you very much.
I have no further questions, but I do wish to congratulate
you and express our deep gratitude for your assistance in our
effort to understand better the threats that exist around the
world against the U.S. interest. This is a very interesting
hearing, a very troubling hearing, but one that we can learn
from, and I hope that we can use the information to help
contribute to a new era of peace and stability in the world.
Our next hearing is going to be on Monday, October 27, at 2
o'clock p.m. At that time, we will examine the safety and the
reliability of the U.S. nuclear deterrent. Until then, the
Committee stands in recess.
[Whereupon, at 12:57 p.m., the Committee was adjourned, to
reconvene at 2 p.m., Monday, October 27, 1997.]
A P P E N D I X
----------
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS FROM MR. ROBERT EINHORN SUBMITTED BY SENATOR
COCHRAN
(all)
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