State Department Briefing, November 15
15 November 2005
Israel/Palestinian Authority, Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Cyprus, Balkans, Spain/EU, Guantanamo Bay/potential visit of U.N. special rapporteur
State Department deputy spokesman Adam Ereli briefed the press November 15.
Following is the transcript of the State Department briefing:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of State
Daily Press Briefing Index
Tuesday, November 15, 2005
12:55 p.m. EST
Briefer: Adam Ereli, Deputy Spokesman
ISRAEL/PALESTINIANS
-- U.S. Role in Obtaining and Implementing Gaza Border Agreement
-- Replacement for General Ward/General Keith Dayton
EGYPT
-- Election Violence
LIBYA
-- Sentencing Delay for Bulgarian Nurses, Palestinian Medic
-- U.S.-Libya Diplomatic Relations/Bulgarian Case's Effect On
-- Role of Libya in Assassination Plot on Prince Abdullah
-- Libyan State Sponsorship of Terrorism
IRAQ
-- Iraqi Government Detainee Center/Torture Allegations
-- Iraqi Investigation
CYPRUS
-- Visit of Assistant Secretary Matt Bryza to Cyprus
BALKANS
-- Remarks of Macedonian Prime Minister on Kosovo
-- U.S. Role in the Balkans
SPAIN/EU
-- Spanish Government Investigation of Alleged CIA Rendition Flights
-- Sanctions on EU Member States Hosting Alleged Secret Prisons
MISCELLANEOUS
-- Potential Visit of UN Special Rapporteur to Guantanamo Bay
-- Access to Guantanamo Prisoners by International Bodies
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2005
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
(12:50 p.m. EST)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2005
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
(12:50 p.m. EST)
MR. ERELI: Welcome, everyone. A pleasure to have you here and we can go straight to your questions.
QUESTION: Could you tell us what role if any the U.S. will play in making this agreement on Gaza's border work?
MR. ERELI: I think you have a lot to go on with the -- by looking at the agreement itself, frankly, and what outlines who's going to do what. Obviously, there's, as the Secretary said in her statement today, this is a first step but there's a lot of stuff to do in the way of implementation.
But I think the important point to make here is that the parties themselves have taken an important step forward in ways that address the needs of the Palestinian people, bearing in mind and addressing Israel's security needs and working together in a way that can help fortify and build the trust between the Israelis and Palestinians that should serve them well in addressing the other issues necessary to deal with in order to help realize President Bush's vision of two states.
Now, with specific reference to your question, Barry, I think the way to look at this is if you look at the agreement, you'll see that there are roles laid out for everybody: the United States Security Coordinator, the Quartet special envoy, the third party, the United States and obviously the Palestinians and the Israelis. The Quartet special envoy will, I think, begin and continue intensive consultations, intensive meetings with all of these partners to move forward on the implementation. But to go into specifics, you need to look at any of the -- any one of the six areas and that's why I'd refer you to the agreement itself.
Yeah.
QUESTION: It's the first time that this Administration is directly implicated in the negotiations --
MR. ERELI: Not really. No, we've been involved very directly and very intensively for a long time.
QUESTION: Not --
MR. ERELI: As a member of the Quartet. The Secretary has been following this closely. She's been coordinating closely with General Ward and in fact, you know, conceptualizing the role of the security coordinator. So yes, we were directly involved in -- I would say the Secretary was directly involved in closing the deal on this agreement, and that was an important and a significant contribution. But the United States has been very involved in working with the -- helping to establish the Quartet special envoy, working with the Quartet special envoy, working with a set of Quartet partners in advancing the goal of increased movement of people and goods between the West Bank and Gaza, within the West Bank and Gaza, between Palestinian-administered territories and outside and other countries, and between the Palestinian-administered territories and Israel. This has been an issue that we've been, frankly, intensively engaged on for some time.
QUESTION: Yeah but this is the first time she stays, she changes her plans and she stays on the ground on purpose to reach a deal, so does it mean that there is a new will of U.S. to be more integrated or directly integrated in these negotiations?
MR. ERELI: I think the way to look at the events over the last 24 hours is a continuation of the United States' strong commitment to facilitating Israeli-Palestinian cooperation, to helping the parties address issues that need to be resolved and to help them resolve those issues, but most importantly, to facilitate them making the decisions that they need to make and to foster the kind of trust between the Israelis and Palestinians that's going to be necessary not only to reach these kinds of deals but to move on to the bigger issues.
And in this specific instance that you refer to, I think it's a reflection of our commitment and a reflection of our engagement that the Secretary involves herself directly in helping the parties, with the involvement, obviously the close involvement, of the Quartet special envoy and the European Union Commissioner Solana, in getting the ball that one yard over the goal line.
Yes. No?
QUESTION: Can you confirm that a replacement for General Ward has been chosen?
MR. ERELI: The Secretary announced that in her joint press availability in Jerusalem this morning. She said that President Bush has nominated General Keith Dayton to replace General Ward.
Egypt.
QUESTION: Violence has erupted in the second round of the parliamentary election. Have you noted that? Are you concerned about it, in touch with the authorities?
MR. ERELI: I have not seen those -- I hadn't seen those reports before coming out here. I think obviously we are -- in a number of ways, we're following events closely in Egypt, both in terms of -- we were closely looking at the first round. I think there are two more rounds. The second round is taking place now. I don't know the specifics of this latest incident.
What we reported after the first round was some positive steps, particularly the widespread presence of independent domestic monitors, continue to focus on possible issues of harassment or other instances of the playing field being less than fully level. That will certainly inform our assessments of the second round, but the process is in play. It's taken place over a couple of weeks and I think we have laid out the benchmarks that we're using to assess that process. And obviously, nonviolence -- lack of violence is one of them and we would look to the Egyptian authorities and political actors and citizens to take all steps to prevent violence from affecting people's access to the polling places and the integrity of the voting process taking place.
QUESTION: Can we turn to Libya for a moment? Is the U.S. pressing the Libyan Government to free the Bulgarian nurses who have been convicted and, by the way, the sentencing has been postponed until the end of January? You know, in that -- you know those charges -- AIDS charges.
MR. ERELI: Right, right.
QUESTION: That's the question, but there is a follow-up.
MR. ERELI: Okay. The United States for some time has made it clear to the Government of Libya that we believe that the Bulgarian -- five Bulgarian and one Palestinian medic should be -- who have been sentenced to death for the death of Libyan children of AIDS -- should be released. We believe that the process of their trial and conviction is flawed, as is the evidence against them, and that along with the EU, we feel strongly that because of the doubts about the evidence and the process, that their conviction is unjust and that they should be released. I think we continue to work to achieve that outcome.
QUESTION: Now, this is the sensitive part of the question. Has the U.S. made clear to the Libyans that this is the one obstacle to setting up -- to you know, to setting up an embassy in Tripoli?
MR. ERELI: No, not that I'm aware.
QUESTION: Is it just -- serious, but is it one of several?
MR. ERELI: I will put it this way, that we opened a liaison office in Tripoli on June 28th, 2004. That liaison office permits us to work to broaden and deepen our relationship with Libya. And I think that the next steps we take in the process of broadening that relationship will evolve over time. I'm not prepared to give you a laundry list and a specific list of criteria, but I would say that our decisions on moving forward will be based on progress that we make in addressing a range of issues, including human rights as well as others.
QUESTION: Well, I guess that sort of obviates the ugly converse question, which is can you establish an embassy even if the Bulgarian conviction isn't overturned?
MR. ERELI: Again, you know, I don't want to engage in hypotheticals. The way I'd describe it is we believe that broadening and deepening the relationship is important for the United States and for Libya. That is what our liaison office is working on. And as we make progress on issues of mutual concern, we will evaluate next steps.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) alleged Libyan role in the assassination attempt on Crown Prince Abdallah still an issue between the U.S. and Libya?
MR. ERELI: I would say that the issue of support for terrorism and Libya's status as a State Sponsor of Terrorism, according to our report on terrorism, remains an issue. I think we've made -- Libya has done a lot to address the specific case that you mentioned, George. But obviously in looking ahead and in engaging with the Libyan Government, the terrorism issue continues to be an important one.
QUESTION: Iraq. What do you make of the discovery of these detainees who've been held and malnourished and apparently tortured?
MR. ERELI: Well, obviously when you become aware of issues and instances like this, it is troubling. The United States has urged the Government of Iraq to investigate and take action against any of its personnel who have been involved in torture and abuse. I would note that the Iraqi Government has pledged to take swift action. The prime minister has already launched an investigation and ordered that the detainees be moved to a better location and receive medical care.
I would say that on a broader -- on a more general note, that in Iraq, as elsewhere, respect for human rights and the rule of law is a central component of our relationship and a key area for involvement -- of U.S. involvement and U.S. support for the government in trying to develop and helping it to develop the capabilities to address these issues and to provide for the rights of its citizens.
QUESTION: And there's no indication that the coalition had any knowledge of this facility?
MR. ERELI: Not that I'm aware of. I mean -- well, I'll leave it at that.
Yeah. Saul.
QUESTION: Any thought being given to calling an independent U.S. investigation?
MR. ERELI: I think we're looking for the Iraqi Government to take action on this.
QUESTION: Just to clarify, I think when you said that you'd urged the government to investigate, you said investigate if any of its --
MR. ERELI: The Ministry of -- yes, personnel.
QUESTION: So why have such a narrow scope? Of course, this form of torture could be done by all sorts of people. They don't have to be Iraqis.
MR. ERELI: Well, I think the allegations and presumptions are that these took place in Iraqi-controlled facilities.
QUESTION: So does that mean you can already rule out that U.S. forces were involved in --
MR. ERELI: Like I said, I'm not aware that that is an issue before us. Obviously, as you know, the United States has a clear policy on regarding the treatment of detainees in its custody. Our forces receive clear guidelines on this score and that we hold ourselves to the highest standards and impose standards of accountability when there are abuses. So I would say as a general matter, were there to be any question about possible U.S. involvement in any case of abuse, those standards and those regulations would apply.
QUESTION: So who would investigate them?
MR. ERELI: If U.S. actions -- actions taken by U.S. personnel under U.S. facilities are investigated by the United States.
QUESTION: So does that mean that when you're urging the Iraqi Government you're --
MR. ERELI: Talking about Iraqi personnel and Iraqi --
QUESTION: And they should not pursue any leads if they were to lead to American personnel?
MR. ERELI: I didn't say that.
QUESTION: No, I'm -- but why narrow it? Why have it so narrow? Why can't -- it's on Iraqi soil -- why can't they just investigate? What's your --
MR. ERELI: Let's take a step back. As far as I'm aware, the issue we're dealing with is allegations of abuse of Iraqis by Iraqis in Iraqi facilities. If there's issue of American -- there's no issue of American involvement in this, were there to be, then obviously our procedures and regulations would apply.
Yes.
QUESTION: On Cyprus. It was reported that Assistant Under Secretary Matt Bryza is going to visit Cyprus. Do you know when?
MR. ERELI: I'll check and see if I have anything for you. I have not -- I was not aware of that trip.
QUESTION: In the Balkans. The Prime Minister of FYROM Ljupco Georgievski stated, "After the formation of independent Kosovo, the strides of greater Albania now turning to Macedonia. The future of Macedonia will develop in two possible directions. There will be either an armed conflict after which those who want to split from Macedonia will separate along with a part of its territory, or more than 100 voters will relocate from Kosovo, leaving the Macedonians a minority in their own country."
Mr. Ereli, any comments since Under Secretary Nicholas Burns is trying very hard to preserve the stability of the Balkans on the basis no border changes?
MR. ERELI: I haven't seen the remarks from the Macedonian official, so I can't comment on that.
QUESTION: Cannot?
MR. ERELI: Yeah. Okay. What I can tell you is that our view on the future status of Kosovo is as, has been, I think, eloquently and at length presented by Under Secretary Burns in congressional testimony and in speaking to the press and I really don't have anything more to elaborate on it. I think you know what our policy is. If you don't, I'd refer you to transcripts that are already out there.
QUESTION: Actually, then how do you assess your relations with Greece, Albania, FYROM, Serbia-Bulgaria and Kosovo?
MR. ERELI: Not prepared to go into that long an answer -- answer that long a question. I will say that as you know, the Balkans is an area of intense interest for the United States, that we have endeavored to develop close and amicable relationships with all countries in the region. And I think that we have succeeded in working with the countries of the region, bilaterally and together, as well as other members of the international community, NATO, the EU, the OSCE, the UN and others to help create the conditions of stability and democratic development and justice, rule of law, that serve the interests of the peoples of the region and their neighbors and that that is the principle that guides our policy, that guides our engagement and will hopefully lead to a resolution of some of the longstanding issues that divide the countries of the region.
QUESTION: The Albanian leader in Scopje, Arben Xhaferi, stated that, "Serbia and FYROM are artificial states and Kosovo should be united with Albania" and the so-called President Ibrahim Rugova is in full with that statement. Any comment on that since you are very involved?
MR. ERELI: No. I have no comment on that.
Yes.
QUESTION: There is a new problem with the secret prisons.
MR. ERELI: Oh?
QUESTION: Because now the Spanish Government is probing some news about the fact that U.S. secretly used an airport in Spain to transfer prisoners. And they say it would be very serious. It would be -- they are apparently not happy at all. So I wanted to know if you think you can carry on denying it happened and if you can still say it doesn't have any impact on your foreign policy?
MR. ERELI: I don't have any comment.
QUESTION: Are you going to cooperate in the investigation?
MR. ERELI: I'm not aware that we've been asked -- we've been approached on this issue and so at this point it's a hypothetical.
QUESTION: Well now there's an investigation going on and it's about U.S. activity, so they'll obviously have to look into what you are doing and in the past, Sean has said that I think that you would be open to helping in any investigation. Are you going to --
MR. ERELI: I don't think -- I don't know -- let me put it this way, I've seen press reports, I'm not aware that there's been any official contact between the Government of Spain and the Government of the United States on this matter. Spain is a friend and NATO ally of the United States and our relations will be guided by those principles.
QUESTION: The Spanish Government said today that it would be intolerable if it were true. And so it would ask for a response at government level. So you would have --
MR. ERELI: Let me check and see. I don't know that we've been -- as I said to your colleague, I'm not aware that we've been officially approached by the Government of Spain.
QUESTION: On a related issue, the top EU justice official said that if any U.S. secret prisons were on European Union member soil, then those countries could face sanctions, what shows that the EU thinks, even in principle, having secret prisons is wrong. Given the Spanish investigation, given this type of strong comment, is it not time for the United States to say that as a principle it's wrong to have detainees in secret prisons?
MR. ERELI: Saul, I don't have anything to add to what I previously haven't said on the subject.
QUESTION: On a related matter.
MR. ERELI: Mm-hmm.
QUESTION: On Guantanamo, the UN has asked for -- some UN experts have asked for the right to visit the Guantanamo prison and to speak with the detainees.
MR. ERELI: Right.
QUESTION: So I wanted to know if you have intention to answer that.
MR. ERELI: Well, I think we've been working very, very diligently and I think in a spirit of openness and cooperation to accommodate the requests of the UN Special Rapporteurs and we agreed to provide access to Guantanamo to the UN -- to a limited number of UN rapporteurs with responsibility for this issue and this area. And so we're happy to let them -- we're happy to have them come to -- have these officials come to Guantanamo and to see what, frankly, thousands of others have seen, see the facilities, talk to the officials responsible for maintaining the facilities, get a full briefing in view of the operations of Guantanamo. And we think that's appropriate and we would hope that the UN Rapporteurs would take us up on our offer.
QUESTION: Apparently, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, Manfred Nowak, said today that Washington was given an ultimatum to allow the UN inspection on the ground UN wants.
MR. ERELI: Well, you know, let me put it this way. Number one, the way to deal with us is not by ultimatum. That's not real helpful and that's not real cooperative. It's certainly not the spirit with which we approach this issue.
Number two, there are procedures that we follow with regard to access to Guantanamo and access to detainees and that follows guidelines set up by the international convention, and we think that those guidelines are appropriate and that's what we're following with respect to the visit of the UN Special Rapporteurs and that's what's guiding our thinking on this issue.
But I would just underscore the fact that we are offering access to the Special Rapporteurs. We think this is -- what we are offering is transparent and appropriate, and we would hope that they take us up on the offer.
QUESTION: So if you don't accept the UN terms on Guantanamo, how do you want Syria to accept the UN terms on the Hariri inquiry? They can't say --
MR. ERELI: The which inquiry?
QUESTION: Syria. Hariri.
QUESTION: Syria and Hariri. Because Syria is discussing the terms of the inquiry.
MR. ERELI: Let me put it this way. I don't think -- with respect to Syria and Mehlis, you have three UN Security Council resolutions, the last of which was passed unanimously by the Security Council and laid out very clear guidelines and procedures and authorities for UN Investigator Mr. Mehlis to conduct his investigation. So that is the basis on which you are going to move forward in providing access to those suspected of -- those who may be suspected of wrongdoing.
Guantanamo is a totally different issue and in Guantanamo, we are guided by international obligations. We are guided by our own laws and we are guided by the fact that we are dealing with enemy combatants who remain a danger to the United States and to others. And that based on those criteria, we work with the ICRC in a very, I would say, cooperative and open and transparent way, based on the procedures that apply to -- apply in cases like this and that by that measure we, you know, we have been open, we have been transparent and we have been fully consistent with our obligations.
QUESTION: Will these UN visitors have access to all prisoners at Guantanamo?
MR. ERELI: No.
QUESTION: They won't?
MR. ERELI: No. ICRC gets access to prisoners. The nationals -- the governments of those countries have access to those prisoners. But this is -- and that is right and appropriate, but that's not necessarily the case with UN special rapporteurs.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) on torture. So --
MR. ERELI: Look, we have --
QUESTION: If you want to prove there is no torture.
MR. ERELI: We have been open. We have been transparent. We have nothing to hide and we have worked in that spirit with the ICRC, based on longstanding practice and procedure and principle and we've also worked with the government officials of those countries of whom the detainees are citizens. And that, I think, is -- and that is a record that we are proud of. And I think that is sufficient and the United States believes that is sufficient.
QUESTION: What's open and transparent about denying the UN's request to have free access to the prisoners?
MR. ERELI: The definition of open and transparent should not be saying yes to everybody who wants to come in and visit detainees. There are considerations dealing with -- there are considerations dealing with the treatment of detainees and there are established procedures for providing access to detainees. We believe that our openness and transparency with the ICRC and the countries of -- countries to whom these detainees are citizens is sufficient.
QUESTION: What about the suspicion that when you say you've got nothing to hide, in fact, maybe you have?
MR. ERELI: Well, I think that that suspicion should be --
QUESTION: The only -- Well, hold on.
MR. ERELI: That suspicion should be --
QUESTION: Maybe you should be fielding it here because --
MR. ERELI: No, you're fielding it. The suspicion should be belied by the fact that the ICRC has -- is able to visit detainees on a 24/7 basis and that is the appropriate -- the ICRC is the appropriate body to have that access, to perform that function and to -- and that kind of access should, I think, adequately address those suspicions.
QUESTION: Why does it adequately address it? Let me ask -- let me put it this way. The only organization that has access to all Guantanamo detainees is an organization that does not report on what it sees.
MR. ERELI: It does report. It reports to the government and it reports through --
QUESTION: It doesn't report publicly. None of us, the media, the voters of Bush in office, they're not going to see the results of those reports. So where's the transparency?
MR. ERELI: The transparency is that you are using established and recognized procedures and competent authorities to undertake the kind of investigation and access that is appropriate in these kinds of situations, as opposed to using public ultimatums and other grandstanding for agendas that perhaps have -- are not germane to the matter at hand.
QUESTION: What sort of agendas are you referring to?
MR. ERELI: I think I've just about said as much as I can say on this subject, so let's move on.
QUESTION: Well hold on. I wanted to go back to the Iraq issue. I was just digesting what you'd said. The Deputy Interior Minister appears to have seen some of the victims and he said that there was physical abuse caused by brutal beating -- apparently caused by brutal beating, and he said some of the detainees were paralyzed, some even had their skin peeled off parts of their bodies. Now, that's pretty graphic and grim and I think the harshest adjective that you used for all of that was "troubling." Is that all you see it as, just troubling?
MR. ERELI: Saul, I said that we're concerned by this. We believe that the rights of prisoners -- that nobody should practice torture. We don't -- our instructions are not to practice torture. We don't practice torture and we don't believe that others should practice torture. And so when there are cases of people being accused of torture, we take that seriously, we view it with concern and we think that there should be an investigation and those who are responsible should be held accountable. That is a fairly, I would consider, robust and stern reaction to these allegations.
QUESTION: And you must be aware of the image. How concerned are you that you went to war to remove Saddam from power and he was a guy who kept people in dungeons and they were tortured there and here it is, you know, two years later we discover a dungeon with over a hundred people inside who've been tortured?
MR. ERELI: Look, I'm not saying -- nobody's saying the abuse doesn't occur, but I think that to compare a free and democratic Iraq in which Iraqis are -- have rights that they could have never dreamed of under Saddam Hussein is a qualitatively different Iraq than it was four or five years ago.
QUESTION: What do you say to the possible criticism that there's a kind of -- there's, perhaps, a permissive environment toward torture and mistreatment of detainees in Iraq? Obviously, U.S. forces --
MR. ERELI: I would think that --
QUESTION: Let me finish the question, please. U.S. forces obviously did mistreat detainees and then you have the Bush Administration saying, we don't torture, but we do want an exception for some of our forces to be exempt from being prohibited from torturing. Don't you think that ambiguity --
MR. ERELI: I don't accept the premise of the question.
QUESTION: So there's no permissive -- no sort of mixed message to Iraqi captors?
MR. ERELI: No. No, the message is clear and -- the message is clear, Saul, and I think I stated it in my first reaction to the question, which you somehow don't want to seem to entertain and that is --
QUESTION: (Inaudible) the answer.
MR. ERELI: And the -- no, you're editorializing. And the answer to the question is the United States has made it clear publicly and to its own public and to its allies that we do not condone or practice torture. The President has made that clear. That is the policy of the United States. And in dealing with our allies, we say we expect the same standards of you as well. And we will work with you to ensure that those standards are respected and upheld and when they're not, we will work with you and we will help you and we will expect you to investigate and hold those responsible accountable. And in many countries around the world, where torture is a practice, our bilateral relations are adversely affected. So I think the position and the record of the United States is clear, consistent and I would strongly take issue with your attempts to cast doubt about them or mitigate them.
QUESTION: So can your allies, including Iraq, have exceptions to who can torture and who can't? Would you be okay with that if the Iraqis decided they had an exception in certain parts of their security apparatus --
MR. ERELI: I don't know what you're talking about.
QUESTION: Well, isn't it that you --
MR. ERELI: Saul, you're weaving some hypotheticals that I don't think are germane and I'm not going to entertain.
(The briefing was concluded at 1:25 p.m.)
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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