20 July 2004
State Department Noon Briefing, July 20
U.S. Pledges $230 Million for Haiti's Reconstruction, Iraq, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh/Nepal, Lebanon/Israel, Israel/Palestinians, Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Philippines/Iraq, Iran/Iraq, Japan, Sudan/Chad, Israel/Palestinians
State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher briefed reporters July 20.
Following is the transcript of the State Department briefing:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of State
Daily Press Briefing Index
Tuesday, July 20, 2004
12:35 p.m. EDT
BRIEFER: Richard Boucher, Spokesman
ANNOUNCEMENT
-- U.S. Pledges $230 Million for Haiti's Reconstruction
IRAQ
-- Regular Nuclear IAEA Inspection/Safeguards Agreement
ZIMBABWE
-- Concerns about Food Shortages
BANGLADESH/NEPAL
-- Floods/U.S. Assistance
LEBANON/ISRAEL
-- Assassination of Hezbollah Leader in Beirut Yesterday
-- Israeli-Lebanon Border
ISRAEL/PALESTINIANS
-- Palestinian Prime Minister Qureia's Decision to Rescind his Resignation
JAPAN
-- Meetings on Sergeant Jenkins Issue/Possibility of Plea Bargain
AFGHANISTAN
-- Individuals Claiming to Work for Special Forces in Putting Together Ad Hoc Prison/No U.S. Government Connection
IRAQ
-- Protection Provided to Officials
PHILIPPINES/IRAQ
-- Release of Filipino Hostage/Rotation in the Coalition/Personnel Withdrawal
IRAN/IRAQ
-- Iran's Role in Iraq
-- Concerns about Lack of Public Expression/State of Human Rights in Iran
JAPAN
-- Bobby Fischer's Passport Situation
SUDAN/CHAD
-- Status of UN Security Council Resolution/Determination of Genocide
-- Interviews of Refugees in Chad/Repatriations/Continued Violence in Darfur
ISRAEL/PALESTINIANS
-- UN General Assembly Resolution on Separation Barrier
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
TUESDAY, JULY 20, 2004
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
12:35 p.m. EDT
MR. BOUCHER: Okay, ladies and gentlemen, thank you, a pleasure to be here. If I can, just to reiterate something the Secretary said this morning about our pledge to Haiti, the United States will be providing $230 million worth of assistance to Haiti in fiscal years 2004, 2005. I think you all know that we've already made available $178 million this year. The remaining $52 million will be allocated in fiscal year 2005, subject to congressional approval, of course.
These figures do not include funds that the United States will be making available for peacekeeping in Haiti, and our contributions we expect to allocate as follows: $22 million for job creation and economic growth programs; $45 million for budget support and for technical assistance to Haiti's government's ministries; $26 million for security improvements and judicial reform; $122 million for health, nutrition and education activities; and $15 million for elections. So that's the breakdown of the money the Secretary spoke about this morning.
With that, I'd be happy to take your questions. George.
QUESTION: Have all the Americans who were there with the -- I guess it was the emergency force in Haiti -- have they all come back or is there a residual force working with the UN peacekeepers?
MR. BOUCHER: I'd have to check. There's a transition; the transition has occurred. So to what extent we have people with the UN peacekeepers at this point, I really don't know, I'll have to check.
QUESTION: All right. Can I ask about the announcement that the UN inspectors expect to go back to go back to Iraq in a few days, according to ElBaradei?
MR. BOUCHER: We're checking on that. I think perhaps some of the press reporting has misinterpreted this. There's a -- has been, for many years, a regular nuclear inspection process that the IAEA has, same kind of thing they do with other countries, not the special inspections that they had with -- excuse me -- with Iraq, prior to the war.
So what -- our understanding is that there will be one of these regular nuclear IAEA inspections coming up, a physical inventory verification that the IAEA does every year in accordance with the safeguards agreement. That's what we're talking about.
QUESTION: That doesn't mean Iraq hasn't asked them to come back, right?
MR. BOUCHER: No, but that's different than -- one shouldn't confuse these inspections with the UNMOVIC, the pre-war special regime that applied to Iraq. These regular IAEA inspections continued all along as a separate matter the way they do with all nations that had safeguards agreement.
QUESTION: Can you talk about the request that is reported, not through the IAEA, but that Iraq has asked the weapons inspectors, the -- I don't know about the old team, but the sort of old formation of weapons inspectors to come back into the country? And does the U.S. support that? And are you --
MR. BOUCHER: I am not sure that that is what is being discussed here. Our understanding of what's being discussed here is that this is the regular physical inventory verification under the safeguards agreement, the kind of regular inspection that the IAEA has done before in Iraq and would continue to do, not the kind of special inspections that took place during the war, but in the end, I'm sure that Dr. ElBaradei or Foreign Minister Zabari might be the best ones to clarify what exactly we're talking about here.
QUESTION: Who would protect these people? Would the U.S. be called upon to do that as the coalition?
MR. BOUCHER: I assume that, in cooperation with the Iraqis, that we would help with security for groups that were there.
QUESTION: It's your understanding that (inaudible) if this team if they, indeed, do go, would, in fact, work with the Iraq Survey Group or anything; it's a completely different matter, correct?
MR. BOUCHER: The group that I know about, the normal IAEA safeguards group, is not part of that sort of pre-war weapons of mass destruction issue -- set of issues.
QUESTION: I'm talking about the post-war ones, the Iraq Survey Group is post-war --
MR. BOUCHER: And the Iraq Survey Group is looking into that whole weapons of mass destruction issue, so no, they would be -- this would be a different sort of thing.
Joel.
QUESTION: Aside from Darfur and trying to, I guess, rev up the stalled talks that were held in Ethiopia, there seems to be more trouble coming out of Zimbabwe, a clampdown on charities, as well as also, the Mugabe government is making it very difficult to do most anything in regard to farming and other normal-type --
MR. BOUCHER: Yeah.
QUESTION: -- normal --
MR. BOUCHER: We've -- we've been very concerned about the food situation in Zimbabwe for a long time now, but particularly, we're looking at severe food shortages in Zimbabwe this year. The government has a crop estimate of 2.4 million metric tons of corn. That's a great difference from the UN Food and Agriculture Organization's estimate of 950,000 metric tons of corn, and the Food and Agriculture Organization's estimate is more consistent with other estimates. And so it really looks like there is going to be a very serious deficit this year in terms of food in Zimbabwe, despite the fact government can import some food itself.
We have found the government trying to curtail donor activity and engagement in Zimbabwe. We've been deeply concerned the Mugabe government is using its monopoly on food distribution to manipulate food availability for political ends and that there needs to be another track of food distribution available to people.
World Food Program, the international community, as well as our Agency for International Development have been tracking the food situation very closely in Zimbabwe. We are prepared for a rapid and an effective response. Last April -- this April, April of this year, five million Zimbabweans needed food assistance. We're concerned that another similar number might need food assistance in the coming months.
So we'll continue to try to establish accurate estimates of what the needs are, and we'll continue to try to establish proper mechanisms for distribution of food to the people who need it, despite the government's efforts to manipulate and to hamper those efforts.
Yeah.
QUESTION: Another thing on food and assistance. What are you doing for South Asia? They have had numerous floods up in the Bangladesh area, Nepal, and it's worse than ever.
MR. BOUCHER: I'll have to check on that and see if there is any direct U.S. assistance going there.
Yeah.
QUESTION: (Inaudible.)
MR. BOUCHER: Sir.
QUESTION: What's your comment on the assassination of a Hezbollah leader in Beirut yesterday? And Hezbollah accused Israel of being behind this assassination and killed two Israeli soldiers on the border today.
MR. BOUCHER: Two different things, right?
QUESTION: No, he killed Israeli soldiers because the Israeli killed the --
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I mean, first of all, we don't have any direct information on the assassination in Beirut yesterday. Obviously, we think that this kind of violence needs to be stopped and these kind of violent groups need to be stopped, including Hezbollah itself, which is a terrorist organization.
As far as the charge that Israel was behind it, you know, that's what they say every time. I don't think -- I haven't seen anything where anybody has come forward with any kind of evidence that it's any -- that it's more than local. But I suppose there may -- should be an investigation. Maybe we'll see what happened.
As far as the situation on the border, we think the parties should exercise maximum restraint. We want to see them -- hope they can avoid further escalation. It remains in the best interests of all parties to remain calm along the Israeli-Lebanon border. We have spoken ourselves with representatives of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon in the region and we're following events there closely.
Okay.
QUESTION: Can we go to Iran?
QUESTION: Can we stay on the Middle East for (inaudible)?
MR. BOUCHER: Sure.
QUESTION: Do you have any particular comment on Palestinian Prime Minister Qureia's decision to rescind his resignation? Is that a good thing, from your point of view?
MR. BOUCHER: I'll stick with what I said yesterday. For any Palestinian prime minister to be effective, he needs control of the mechanisms of government; there needs to be consolidation of the security institutions and the security services. We think that that's the key -- the institutional change, the ability to really take a stand, an effective stand, against violence and move forward in a way that establishes real authority. And it's not about individuals, it's not about the difficulties that he's faced, it's about the ability of the government, the government of the Palestinian Authority, to carry out their government program.
QUESTION: Sure. But considering that Ahmed Qureia made his withdrawing of his resignation contingent on getting more power, as far as the security apparatus is concerned, are you in close touch with them in any way --
MR. BOUCHER: We're watching --
QUESTION: -- with Qureia personally, or --
MR. BOUCHER: We're following the situation closely. Our Consulate General in Jerusalem has been, of course, keeping in touch with a variety of Palestinians. I don't know if anybody has talked to Ahmed Qureia directly.
QUESTION: Is that the only channel that is happening?
MR. BOUCHER: We have a lot of different channels to talk to them in different ways when we need to. Right now, at this moment, it's our people on the ground who are following events on the ground for us.
Yeah. Okay, sir.
QUESTION: On the Sergeant Jenkins issue, there's some reporting that indicates that in his meetings with senior Japanese officials last week, Ambassador Baker brought up the suggestion of a plea bargain as a way to resolve the situation. I guess, first of all, is that something that you could confirm, that he --
MR. BOUCHER: I can't confirm that. I don't -- I gave a readout of those meetings yesterday. I think we'll take this one step at a time.
QUESTION: Okay.
MR. BOUCHER: And we described yesterday the position that Ambassador Baker took in those meetings.
QUESTION: Is there anything more than you could say about this idea of a plea bargain? I mean, what --
MR. BOUCHER: No, I wouldn't want to speculate at this point. That's something that -- well, if and when we get custody, we'll deal with legal issues then.
Andrea.
QUESTION: Going to Afghanistan. What is the State Department's response to the claims made by the three American soldiers who claim to have been working for Special Forces in putting together this ad hoc prison in Afghanistan? Is there anything to their --
MR. BOUCHER: I don't -- it's not for the State Department to respond to, I'm afraid, and we don't -- not in -- have no connection with these individuals. The U.S. Government has no connection with these individuals. There are procedures underway in Afghan courts. They'll have to make their case and prosecutors will have to make their case. And as far as any connection with U.S. military forces, as I've said, there's no U.S. Government connection, but any further questions about Special Forces or whatever you want to speculate on have to be answered at the Pentagon.
Adi.
QUESTION: To Iraq?
MR. BOUCHER: Yeah.
QUESTION: What's clear in recent weeks is the fact that terrorists and insurgents are targeting not just the leaders of the new Iraqi government, but the mid-level officials as well. So my question to you is, is there -- what plans are there to protect these mid-level people? There are obviously protection given to the top-level people -- bodyguards, et cetera, et cetera -- using U.S. contractors or other means. Are the facilities that you have in Jordan, for example, that you are setting up to train the new Iraqi Civil Defense Corps, are they going to be used to help protect the mid-level people?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, first, we're not in a position to talk about any specific individual's protection or the kind of protection that we can provide to different officials. But the whole issue of security is being done as a joint effort with the Iraqis. They have primary responsibility for security and have asked the coalition forces to help them establish security in their country and we do that in a lot of different ways. Sometimes it's Iraqi forces, sometimes it's Iraqi police, Iraqi Civil Defense forces, and foreign coalition forces that help them in that regard.
So there's a lot of different ways of trying to protect people who are stepping forward to participate in the organs of government, stepping forward to participate in different activities. Some of these bombings have been directly against the Iraqi police, and we are training a lot of Iraqi police in Jordan, and there are still a lot more people who are stepping forward and saying they want to help with stability in Iraq, they want to join the police force in Iraq, they want to be part of establishing order in their own country. And it's people like that, ultimately, that will provide the kind of security for that society that they need.
QUESTION: Go to Iran?
MR. BOUCHER: In a minute. We're getting there.
QUESTION: You'll notice that the Filipino hostage has been released. Is the coalition holding together, aside from that one defection?
MR. BOUCHER: First of all, let me say, we're always glad to see somebody who has been in captivity get released. It's good to see that he's safe. Our policy on how this came about has certainly not changed and we have spoken to it directly here, as well as the Secretary spoke to it last week at the U.S. Institute for Peace.
I would note, in response to your question, that there are many other governments in the coalition who are holding firm. There are governments who are expanding their forces. There are governments, like the Bulgarian Government, that in recent days have faced very similar threats, very similar attempts at intimidation, and yet who are standing up to fight terrorism and defeat terrorism. And it's only by the actions of people like that that we're ultimately going to defeat this enemy.
And so we do think, while there is going to be some rotation in the coalition, there is going to be some people adding to forces, and there are going to be some people who leave, that this is a strong multinational effort. We still have 30 or so nations in Iraq -- with us there, and as I said, there will be some rotations over time. But it's a strong multinational effort because there are many, many nations who understand the need to stand up to terrorism, and in recent months, we've seen not only the Bulgarians but the Japanese, South Koreans and several others face these kind of horrible situations or face direct attacks on their forces and we confirm their determination to beat the terrorists.
QUESTION: I recollect last week you said that you're seeking clarification from the Philippines Government. Has there been any clarification yet on --
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I think when we said we were seeking clarification, we were seeking clarification on exactly what their intentions were as far as withdrawal of their personnel. My understanding is that withdrawal was completed yesterday, so there is not much more left to clarify.
Okay. He was going to change to Iran.
QUESTION: This is also about the hostages. I'm sorry.
MR. BOUCHER: Okay.
QUESTION: There were some conflicting statements that have come out now by groups on the internet, either they are threatening some other countries with similar action if they don't withdraw, like Japan, and encouraging neighboring countries in Iraq not to get involved, but then there have been some other that have contradicted that statement. Do you have any reaction to that, or are you aware of those?
MR. BOUCHER: Some people are threatening some countries on the internet?
QUESTION: Yeah. The group --
MR. BOUCHER: In some websites?
QUESTION: There were some statements attributed to a group related to Zarqawi.
MR. BOUCHER: Okay. Look, I think we know that terrorists like Zarqawi and people in al-Qaida, if you look at their statements over time, you'll see threats against just about every country in the world, every country in the region. You see threats against Westerners, Arabs, Asians. You see threats against Muslims, Christians, Jews, every religion in the world. These -- there are people, unfortunately, who are in Iraq, who have an ideology of destruction, who are seeking to attack anybody and everybody who is involved in Iraq, anybody and everybody who is there to try to build a new society in Iraq.
That's unfortunate. It leads to very tragic circumstances for people who are kidnapped or killed or blown up or who suffer from these attacks. But I don't think it can be allowed to deter us from this overall mission, and it's a mission that involves countries from around the world, it involves countries who have stood up and said, "We're going to fight terrorism, we're going to help the Iraqis get their country back and get control of their country in a different democratic and peaceful way."
Iran?
QUESTION: Iran. Yesterday, the Council on Foreign Relations issued a report. They had a task force composed of former National Security Advisor Brzezinski, former CIA Director Robert Gates and former advisor Scowcroft. And they're saying that the key to advancing U.S. interest in Iran is really directing engagement, and perhaps allowing them to pursue peaceful application of the nuclear program. And they also call for a lot of things such as, you know, more engagement in the Middle East peace process, because that is likely to lessen the tension.
I wonder, what is your take on that? Have you seen the report?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, we actually talked about it yesterday.
QUESTION: Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't here.
MR. BOUCHER: We talked about it, I think, for a while yesterday --
QUESTION: (Inaudible) for the briefing.
MR. BOUCHER: -- and basically, you know, one, there are two sides to these equations and the United States has been willing to talk to Iran when we felt it was important and in our interest and useful to do so. We had, I think, somewhat more formal conversations in early 2003. I think the last one of those was May 2003. We have had discussions -- we had a discussion in Iraq just this last April on the question of Iran's role in Iraq and the need for Iran to play a constructive role and not allow destabilizing activities to occur in Iraq.
So we are prepared to meet with the Iranians and talk about issues, but there are some very serious issues that divide us with Iran and we have not seen progress on these issues. In fact, we've seen promises made and promises broken on things like the nuclear issue. We've seen the continuation of al-Qaida people being in Iran in some undefined status and not being turned over to nations that might be pursuing them for justice. So -- we've seen a continuation of support for terrorist groups that are trying to undermine the peace process and undermine the Palestinian hopes and dreams.
So one way or the other, whether we're talking to them or not on any given moment on a given issue, and we're willing to do so when it's useful, we just haven't seen any sign of change in Iran, despite all the debate and discussion that goes on there.
QUESTION: If I could follow up, could you clarify some of the confusion regarding -- apparently, the President and the CIA are at odds as far as Iranian involvement or link to 9/11 and so on.
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not sure they're at odds. I think the President said there hadn't been any particular evidence developed at this point, but the issue is being, apparently, raised again in the 9/11 Commission report and he said that that was something that we would -- are looking into or would look into or keep on the radar to see if -- to see if there's any information on that. I can't remember his exact words. You could look it up. But I think if you read the full transcript of what the President said and the full transcript of what Director McLaughlin said, you'll find that they are actually very similar statements.
Sir.
QUESTION: Also on Iran.
MR. BOUCHER: Also on Iran? Okay, Joel.
QUESTION: This morning, there's a news report that a academic, Professor Aghajari, has been sentenced to five years for calling Muslims who blindly follow cleric leaders "monkeys." And, I guess, would that be in relation to what we've been speaking of the last day or two as retribution?
MR. BOUCHER: I think, you know, without reference to particular remarks that the individual may have made, we certainly see this fits the pattern of harassment and difficulties created for people who try to speak out, the lack of public expression in Iran, the lack of the ability for people to speak out on topics that are of concern to them, and we've been concerned about the state of human rights in Iran and, you know, we know there have been demonstrations, there have been outspoken people, but we also see that they're being pursued often when they do and this is another example of that. Okay.
QUESTION: Very quickly on a point. They also called for the U.S. to put an influence or to pressure to disband Mujahedin-e Khalq, and since it's on the U.S. list of terrorist organizations, why not? I mean, why --
MR. BOUCHER: I think you know that we have stopped their activities in Iraq. They are in cantonment. They have been vetted or are being interviewed to determine which one of these people -- which of these people may be wanted for crimes or for terrorism and which of them may not be. That process is underway, but there's certainly no question that at this point, the Mujahedin-e Khalq, which we do see as a terrorist organization, has been rounded up and stopped in Iraq.
Okay.
QUESTION: Can you give any update on the Bobby Fischer situation and what you want to see there? And also, apparently Fischer is claiming that earlier this year, he was told that his passport was being revoked. What prompted, after all these years, the U.S. Government to take that move?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't go too far into the legal matters of this. I don't really have anything new on Fischer's situation in Japan, but it would be normal practice, when somebody was under indictment, for us to invalidate the passport and make invalid; I can't remember if we do it for that passport or have to issue a one --
QUESTION: Well, I think he --
MR. BOUCHER: -- one-time use passport for somebody to return to justice.
QUESTION: But I think he was saying -- he was saying he had a valid passport up through March of this year, though. Is that --
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know his particular passport situation. I wouldn't be able to talk about it anyway.
Yeah. George.
QUESTION: Back on Iran. Senior officials have been quoted in some media reports in recent days saying that if President Bush is reelected, there will be a full court press to spark an internal uprising in Iran to -- you know, sort of take advantage of the widespread dissatisfaction with the regime there. You want to say something about that?
MR. BOUCHER: No. I have no idea what senior officials might be talking like that. I think the Bush Administration's policy on Iran has been very clear. The President's policy on Iran has been very clear. I've made clear again and again, for the last several days, that if we can make progress with Iran diplomatically we're willing to do so. But I wouldn't want to speculate or imagine things far -- that far in the future at this point.
QUESTION: Yesterday, I think you had a condition on opening a dialogue. You said, we're willing to talk with them if the President decides that's what he wants to do.
MR. BOUCHER: Yeah, I did today -- I did today -- if we decide -- if the President decides that that's the way to make progress. We're not -- the point being, we're not -- we don't want to sit down just to, you know, drink tea and say we're talking. If there is an opportunity that we decide, the President decides is an opportunity to make progress on these issues, we've been willing in the past, and are willing still to talk to Iran.
Tammy.
QUESTION: On Darfur, can you update us on what's happening at the UN as far as the resolution, whether it's actually going to be formally tabled?
MR. BOUCHER: The Joint -- let me start in Sudan. Monday in Khartoum, there is a meeting with the Joint Implementation Mechanism and the Secretary General's Special Representative, Jan Pronk, led the UN delegation. Now he is returning to New York and he's going to brief the Security Council tomorrow on the Joint Implementation Mechanism's findings. So we look forward to seeing their UN assessment of Sudanese compliance with the United Nations benchmarks and where the benchmarks are laid out by Secretary Powell during his visit.
We have kept in close touch with the United Nations. The Secretary has spoken with the Secretary General every day or so about the situation in Sudan and they're working together on this. Our Assistant Secretary, Kim Holmes was up in New York late last week to compare notes with the United Nations and other nations about how to move forward on this. So after the briefing with the Security Council, we will look at next steps on the resolution. We are remaining in touch with other governments about the situation in Sudan, as well as the Security Council resolution.
So, it's alive, very much still in play, but we'll maybe do an assessment -- a little more of an assessment after we talk to other governments about what the next step is with a resolution.
QUESTION: As far as your conversations with other governments go, are you getting the sense that this is something of an uphill battle for you?
MR. BOUCHER: I think we get the sense that nations want to know that it will -- they want to know what the situation is on the ground and they want to know what we can do to improve the situation on the ground. There is shared concern. We have made clear the need for continued pressure on the government and I think other countries share that concern. And depending on the update we get, as far as what the government has and has not done -- and we've said very clearly the picture is mixed -- we'll be talking to other governments about how to move this, whether this is the appropriate form of pressure, continue the pressure on the government.
QUESTION: Have you yet begun to get the reporting that Secretary Powell referred to in his Charlie Rose interview last week from your own team there on whether or not it is genocide? And do you expect to -- do you have any reason to expect a U.S. determination on whether or not it is genocide this week?
MR. BOUCHER: I cannot predict when there might be a determination. The State Department, the United States, has sent teams out to interview people, refugees in Chad, and over last weekend and earlier this week we've had a team of a half dozen or so people with, you know, Land Rovers and sleeping bags and equipment starting refugee interviews in camps in Chad near the Sudanese border to talk to people in, I think, a fairly systematic way about what happened to them, what they know, what we can identify as the atrocities and the perpetrators of things that might have occurred in Chad -- in Sudan, excuse me. That process has produced something like 50 interviews so far but we will continue that process and probably do maybe a thousand or even more over the course of the summer.
As that information comes in, depending on the results and what it says in those interviews, we will be reviewing it not only vis-à-vis what happened and how to stop it, where the Secretary again and again has put the emphasis -- figure out what's going on, stop the violence and take care of the people who need it -- that's the first priority. But also we'll be reviewing it from a legal point of view if at some point -- to see if at some point that evidence constitutes evidence of genocide.
So as this information accumulates, it may or may not produce a determination of genocide at some point in the process. It's not possible to predict without knowing -- without seeing the information as it comes in quite yet at what point we may or may not have evidence of genocide.
QUESTION: If you're talking about doing a thousand such interviews over the course of the summer and you've only done 50 so far, it would seem to suggest that a determination is nowhere close to being made. Is that fair?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't -- I can't really say that because it depends on the content as much as it depends on the number. Certainly, the more content you have, the clearer picture you have, so from that point of view your question is well founded. But if a clear picture emerges in the first 50 or 100 or 200 interviews, you may have enough evidence at an earlier stage rather than a later one. Or you may go through the whole thing and not have -- not have the evidence you need to make that finding.
QUESTION: But the Secretary on Friday said, as he has said before, that there is not -- at this point it does not meet the legal definition of genocide. Does that apply to the 50 interviews you've gotten so far?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think we've fully evaluated them, but I'm not aware of any change at this moment.
QUESTION: Are you also aware of the reports that there have been forcible repatriations, that the government is forcing refugees who don't yet feel secure to go back to their home areas? I mean, is that also part of your calculations -- not just what happened but what is happening now in terms of scared people who are still afraid?
MR. BOUCHER: There are a lot of different pieces of this. In terms of the specific question about determining genocide, I think I described the piece most relevant. What is most of immediate concern right now is the actual security situation for people in Darfur because in Chad we're able, at least the ones who make it there, to take care of them and to guarantee a certain sense of security, although even there there's been some occasional difficulties.
But in Darfur we've been concerned about several things. One is the continued reports of violence and attacks by the Arab militias. Two is the situation around the camps where people who go out from the camps have been subject to attack or, in some cases, rapes and other atrocities. And then third are these questions that you do raise where people have not felt comfortable going back but have somehow been forced to go back to their villages.
So we're getting a variety of these kinds of reports and the reason we want the government to take firm action is to prevent these kind of -- this kind of violence, to prevent this kind of insecurity that plagues people there. And to do that, they need to do the steps that we laid out for them, that the Secretary General laid out for them: provide a sense of security for people in the region; stop the activities of the Arab militias, the Jingaweit, and stop -- prevent their leaders. These kind of things that we laid out when we were there need to be done if we are to achieve a real sense of security for people in the region.
QUESTION: You've got a team -- I thought you said you had had a team in Darfur itself, as well as on the other side of the border with Chad. You refer only to people on the other side of the border. Do you not have a team in Chad doing this?
MR. BOUCHER: We get reports. We have people on both sides of the border. This particular team I talked about went to the Chad side to talk to refugees. But, obviously, we get continuous reports from various people who are in Darfur itself.
QUESTION: Are you conducting on an investigation to see the validity of the accusation or allegation that the Jingaweit are committing gang rapes of girls as young as eight and --
MR. BOUCHER: We are collecting every bit of information that we can find on the situation there. As we've pointed out again and again, we get information from a variety of sources. We get information from this team that we have sent out to interview refugees. We get information from workers who are on the ground working there. We get information from other governments. We get information from the UN. We get information from various means of collection.
And so, yes, we're interested in all these -- all these issues.
QUESTION: I don't know if this is too much specificity. But how long does one of these interviews take? And, presumably, these camps are holding hundreds of refugees. Why is it taking so long to conduct the interviews? And I don't mean in terms of the time per interview, but just in terms of days that have gone by.
MR. BOUCHER: Well, we're just getting started. There is a lot of information that has come out and we have passed on much of that information. We've talked about it. Our judgments on the overall situation and what needs to be done are based on the information that we've gotten ourselves, that we've gotten from nongovernmental organizations and these other various sources.
But in terms of the sort of more systematic data collection, this is something we've just started this weekend and is a process that -- if it's to produce real serious evidence and identification of perpetrators and things like that, it has to be done in a very systematic, careful way. It has to be tested and that's what we're going through. I don't think this is an excessively long time to say -- they started at the end of last week and they've done 50 interviews so far and expect to do as many as a thousand or more in the next six weeks.
QUESTION: Why didn't they start earlier, (inaudible) for so long this month?
MR. BOUCHER: I think we've been collecting a lot of information in different ways. This is just one more way.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) with you to do that, to --
MR. BOUCHER: No --
QUESTION: Or actually, no, actually, a follow-up on why didn't you start interviewing the other side of the border months ago?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, we've been getting information, getting reports, talking to people. We've had teams out before in Darfur and in Chad to talk to people. This is a -- I'd say a more systematic and organized way of collecting data.
QUESTION: Right, but the only way you can make a determination on whether it's genocide is by doing it in a systematic and organized fashion in the (inaudible) territories (inaudible) why you're getting started --
MR. BOUCHER: I think you have to go back to the first priorities. The first priorities identify the security problems that people face in the region and solve those security problems for them. This is not some legal exercise. There are real people on the ground that need immediate help and our efforts since last year have been devoted on getting food, getting money, getting vehicles, getting humanitarian workers and getting security in there for the people who need it. That's the first and foremost effort that was done and that needs to be done still.
QUESTION: Go to the UN?
MR. BOUCHER: Sure.
QUESTION: Could you tell us what the latest is as far as the ICJ draft? I know that the Palestinians withdrew their thing yesterday, or did not submit it to a vote, so --
MR. BOUCHER: Our understanding is that there is a draft before the General Assembly that may be voted on as early as this afternoon. Ambassador Danforth has already made a statement at Friday's session about our view of the draft. It has not changed. We don't see a need for a UN General Assembly resolution. We think the focus needs to remain on the roadmap and the need to make political progress, to create two states that can live peacefully side by side, as the President laid out. We don't think the ICJ is the appropriate forum to resolve these issues that are best addressed through direct negotiations in the roadmap. Our intention is to vote against the resolution.
QUESTION: Thank you.
(The briefing was concluded at 1:20 p.m.)
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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