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UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs

DRC: IRIN interview with Eugene Serufuli, governor of North Kivu Province

KINSHASA, 24 October 2003 (IRIN) - The national unity government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC) announced a major roads and infrastructure rehabilitation programme on Monday, known as the Multi-sectoral Emergency Programme for Reconstruction and Rehabilitation (PMURR). [see earlier IRIN story, "Kinshasa launches major infrastructure rehabilitation programme"]

A three-day workshop held in the capital, Kinshasa, to launch the initiative brought together governors from the country's 11 provinces for the first time in over five years, following a war that lasted most of that time.

The governor of North Kivu Province, Eugene Serufuli, was among the participants. IRIN spoke with him on Wednesday after the conclusion of the workshop.

In addition to serving as governor, Serufuli is also the second vice-president of the Rassemblement congolais pour la democratie (RCD-Goma) former rebel movement, now party to the DRC's two-year transitional national government.

During the interview, Serufuli responded to questions about the presence of Rwandan and Ugandan armed groups in his province, the refusal of three RCD-Goma officers to report to Kinshasa to assume their duties in the leadership of the unified national military, and ongoing delays in the reunification of the country.

QUESTION: What does this programme and this workshop, which has brought together governors from all provinces for the first time in over five years, mean to you?

ANSWER: As you know, after the storm, the sun comes out again. After years of war, we now have a national unity government and transitional institutions.

We believe that it is now time to forget all that has happened and to begin to rebuild our country. This programme is thus very welcome. This workshop enabled us to bring together all of our colleagues [governors], from all parts of the newly reunited Congo. This is a very strong signal showing that we are beginning efforts to rebuild our country.

Q: The city of Goma has been particularly affected by both war and natural disaster, namely the eruption of Mt Nyiragongo in January 2001. Will the PMURR include Goma?

A: Of course. North Kivu Province has suffered a great deal of destruction, with inter-ethnic conflicts followed by two wars and the volcanic eruption. But we have the advantage of having a very dynamic population who understood a long time ago that they must look after themselves. They have already begun a wide range of projects themselves. However, a programme such as this, which is supported [in part] by the World Bank, will help to reinforce all of these grassroots initiatives.

Q: What are the PMURR's priorities for Goma?

A: The realities on the ground are already well known. A delegation from the [national unity] government has already visited Goma to evaluate the situation. We are talking primarily about the rehabilitation of Goma airport, whose runway was partially buried by lava flows. So that is the first priority.

Also, as you know, North Kivu Province is the breadbasket of the DRC. The province supplies all major cities of the country, including the capital, Kinshasa. So there are also going to be programmes to rehabilitate key roads used for the transport of agricultural products. Local populations have already begun work in this domain, with whatever means they have available, and with the support of the provincial government. We are making progress, little by little.

We believe that other sectors, such as health and education, which are of major concern to us on a daily basis, will also be included in the PMURR.

Q: So the PMURR will extend throughout all of eastern DRC?

A: The PMURR was first developed for the west and south of the DRC. However, for the purpose of national reunification, technical teams are going to carry out missions in order to integrate the eastern region of the DRC. We believe that much of the infrastructure of Kivu will be taken into account once the programme is elaborated.

Q: Your movement, RCD-Goma, has often been accused of holding up the reunification of the country. Certain leaders of RCD-Goma have decided to remain in Goma rather than to assume their duties in the new government institutions. What is the problem, exactly?

A: That is not true. Those who have followed our activities closely will attest that we came to participate in the inauguration ceremony for the vice-presidents. Then, at the request of our leadership, we came here [to Kinshasa] again for various meetings. This is now the third time that we have come here in the context of national reunification. Therefore, these people who make such allegations are just like certain politicians who have chosen to use lies as a means of governing.

Q: What about the armed groups and militias that continue to operate in your province?

A: There are no militias in North Kivu. There are armed groups, particularly from neighbouring countries, such as the Interahamwe and the ex-FAR [Rwandan Hutu militias and former army who fled to the DRC after playing a primary role in the 1994 Rwandan genocide]. There are obviously some Congolese armed groups, such as the Mayi-Mayi. But there are no militias. Those who speak of militias are simply critics who have chosen to use lies as their way of doing things.

Q: How about the "local defence forces" that you are said to support?

A: That is completely false. These "local defence forces" are the equivalent of the FAP [Forces d'Auto-defense Populaires] that exist in Kinshasa and have existed for a long time. These "local defence forces" have managed to stand in the way of many politicians who had Machiavellian plans. It is those people, whose efforts have been thwarted, who are trying to tarnish the image of the "local defence forces" by calling them militias, but that means nothing. These "local defence forces" are organised structures that enable the people to restore and maintain their security.

Q: What will become of these "local defence forces" once the unified army is in place?

A: All unstable countries have a system similar to ours. In Tanzania, for example, they have the army, the police and the "local defence forces". In Rwanda, they have the same system. Ditto for Uganda. So, here in Congo, as we are talking about groups that are officially recognised and established in the country, the government will discuss the future of these "local defence forces". But I have to tell you that they [the "local defence forces"] do not exist only in North Kivu. They exist in all other provinces, as well.

In North Kivu, more than 80 percent of them have already been integrated into the army, with some 20 percent remaining, which includes various local leaders who are trying to ensure the protection of their people. However, when the time comes, when the government decides their fate, they will obey whatever decision is taken.

Q: How many people do you estimate belong to these "local defence forces"?

A: Today they are about 2,000. But as I said, they consist primarily of local leaders.

Q: NGOs and the local population often talk about the return of Rwandan and Ugandan troops. For example, a significant cache of armaments was recently found in the north of the province. What is that about?

A: No, that is not true. It is unfortunate that there are people who think we are going to rebuild the country with lies.

In any event, we represent the authority of the state in our province, and we have no knowledge of the presence of the Rwandan and Ugandan armed forces on our territory. However, we are aware of the presence of foreign armed groups such as the FDD [Forces pour la defense de la democratie]. These are Burundians who are rebelling against the government in Bujumbura [capital of Burundi]. There are the Interahamwe and ex-FAR. These are Rwandans who are on our territory. They are very active and are in the process of destabilising the region. That is the reality, but neither [the Rwandan or Ugandan] army is on our territory.

Q: Ugandan rebel groups such as NALU, the National Army for the Liberation of Uganda, and the ADF, the Allied Democratic Forces, have also been found to have training camps in the north of your province. [see earlier IRIN story, "Minister confirms presence of Ugandan rebel groups in east"]

A: NALU is based in the Rwenzori Mountains, in Lubero territory. As you know, I do not yet govern the territories of Butembo and Beni. North Kivu Province has been Balkanised, and I believe that the government will soon address the matter of reunification of our province. Once we have control over all the territories of the province, we will have precise information about NALU.

We have to be realistic. There is a part of North Kivu that we do not control. That is a reality. The process of [national] reunification will continue until such a point that the province itself is also completely reunited.

Q: Do you know the locations of these Burundian, Rwandan and Ugandan armed groups that you have mentioned? How many are they?

A: These armed groups are not in camps, they are not led by any kind of organised administration, and no one can make contact with them in order to count them. All those who put forward figures [regarding their numbers] are simply imagining things. I do not wish to give you imaginary figures.

Q: Three RCD-Goma military officers have refused to assume their duties in the unified national army. A number of members of parliament have also refused to present themselves in Kinshasa. What is the status of these people currently?

A: The status of these deputies and senators is almost old news, since most of them have already arrived in Kinshasa. The others, who have remained in North Kivu, have legitimate reasons for doing so. Some received scholarships and must leave to study abroad in the near future. Others have their own businesses. But I believe that this is a problem that has already been resolved. If certain people are not available to take their seats in parliament, then their deputies can take their places.

As for the military officers who remained in Goma, they demanded that certain conditions be met before they assumed their duties, because they had some concerns. Kinshasa is currently examining these conditions. For the moment, I know that [these officers] have agreed in principle to travel to Kinshasa. I know that they are only waiting for an invitation from the military leadership.

Q: Does RCD-Goma fear that once these officers arrive in Kinshasa, they will be brought before the Military High Court, as has been demanded by the chief of staff of the unified national army?

A: [These officers] set certain conditions. They want to be assured that once they arrive in Kinshasa, they will not be disturbed. That is what we are waiting for. Once these guarantees have been given, they will present themselves in the capital.

Q: NGOs have reported pillages, rapes and other exactions committed by the Mayi-Mayi, the Interahamwe, the ex-FAR and even by soldiers of RCD-Goma. Civilian forced labour for your military has also been reported. What is your reaction to these allegations?

A: I would tell you that there are very well organised and active armed groups there [in North Kivu]. And you know that the Interahamwe and the ex-FAR have no land. They cultivate nothing, and when they need supplies, they must pillage and even kill people in order to have food. This is a reality. The government and the local authorities, with the support of the international community, are currently working to bring these harmful elements, which are destabilising our people, under some kind of control.

Themes: (IRIN) Conflict

[ENDS]

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