13 May 2003
Transcript: Powell Says Action on Middle East Roadmap Should Start Now
(Interview with Al-Quds Newspaper, May 11) (3350)
In a lengthy interview with the Arabic daily newspaper "Al-Quds" May
11, Secretary of State Colin Powell stressed that Israeli and
Palestinian leaders should begin immediate efforts to implement the
U.S.-sponsored roadmap. "We need to get started," he emphasized.
"This is the time to start, in this new strategic environment, with
Iraq dealt with, with the president making a full commitment to the
Middle East peace process and with a new prime minister and a new
cabinet, new leaders representing the wishes and dreams and the
ambitions of the Palestinian people," he said.
Powell said he was impressed with actions taken by the first
Palestinian prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas (also known as Abu Mazen),
in shaping the political role of his office. Powell expressed
confidence in Abbas' ability to begin direct discussions with Israeli
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to implement the roadmap.
According to Powell, Sharon reaffirmed his interest in working with
Abbas and the Palestinian Authority in the search for peace during
their discussions May 11.
"As a practical matter, I see the Israeli side has some steps that it
can take and will be taking, and it shows that they have started down
that road," Powell said.
Powell suggested that the Palestinians could begin work on
implementing the roadmap by focusing on eliminating violence and the
threat of terror in one limited geographic area.
"Let's focus on one area and secure [it], and make one area free of
violence and free of terror and free of provocateurs, and demonstrate
to the other side that we are serious and we have secured this area,
and cause the other side to respond to that. And as we build up
capacity within the Palestinian security forces you expand it," Powell
explained.
"And what the prime minister [Sharon] has said clearly, and he said
clearly to me today, as soon as the Palestinian side has demonstrated
their ability to handle an area and make it secure, Israel will
respond, and respond in a positive way, and respond even more than
around that immediate area but in other areas as well," he continued.
Questioned about Israeli settlement activity, Powell noted that
President Bush's position was firm: "settlement activity must end."
Although the issue of existing settlements may be difficult, Powell
said, this was not an issue that could be relegated to the final
stages of negotiations.
"You have to know what you are going to do with respect to settlements
before you can get to even discussions or descriptions of what a
provisional state with provisional boundaries would look like," Powell
explained.
Following is the full text of the Secretary's interview.
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
(Riyadh, Saudi Arabia)
May 13, 2003
Interview
Secretary of State Colin L. Powell
With Al-Quds Newspaper
David Citadel Hotel
Jerusalem
May 11, 2003
QUESTION: This is your first meeting with Mr. Abu Mazen. What are your
impressions about the meeting and how do you envision your partnership
moving forward? What did you learn from him about his objectives and
his commitments?
SECRETARY POWELL: We have met before, but this was the first time that
I was able to officially meet him as a prime minister, and the first
prime minister of the Palestinian people. I was impressed by his
understanding of the responsibilities that he now has; I was impressed
by some of the first moves that he has taken to form a cabinet. I was
impressed, frankly, by the fact he was able to prevail in the
political fight that took place with respect to his appointment. I
think he understands clearly that he has to move aggressively with
respect security and with respect to ending terror and violence, and I
think he is anxious to begin discussions directly with Prime Minister
Sharon so that the two of them can start talking directly to one
another and move forward, as opposed to always talking through
interlocutors. The United States will continue to remain engaged and
be an interlocutor, as will other nations, but it is important for the
two sides to begin a dialogue with each other. And he appears solidly
committed to having that dialogue as soon as possible.
History has placed an enormous burden on his shoulders, but I saw a
man today who understands what history has called upon him to do, what
the Palestinian people have called upon him to do, and I saw a man who
is confident in his ability to respond to this call and to perform.
And so I was very, very encouraged by my first meeting and I told him
that the United States would be there to support his efforts, that the
President of the United States, President Bush, is committed to doing
everything we can to move the process forward and to fulfill the
vision that the president laid out for both sides, the Israelis and
the Palestinians, in his speech last year, and that the president is
committed to the roadmap as a way of moving forward.
QUESTION: We hear that you came from Mr. Sharon's meeting with no sort
of guarantees or (inaudible) commitment from him. So what can you tell
the Palestinian people about (inaudible) concrete results?
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't agree with that assessment. I'm not sure
what concrete results you were looking for, but what I came out of the
meeting with Mr. Sharon was [that] he has stated that he will be
taking a number of steps that will ease life for the Palestinian
people and start to improve their situation, and we will watch as he
takes those steps in the days ahead. He is taking them now
unconditionally, and he also said to me that he was committed to
working with Prime Minister Abbas in moving forward. Mr. Sharon knows
that the United States worked hard to encourage the Palestinian people
to appoint a prime minister, and now there is a prime minister. And so
he has a partner that he can work with, a partner for peace. It's
something he did not believe, nor did we believe, he had in Mr.
Arafat. And so he reaffirmed to me today that he is looking forward to
working with the new leadership of the Palestinian people and the
Palestinian Authority in the search for peace.
With respect to the roadmap, he has concerns and he has some comments
about the roadmap, but I think I can say, as I did at the press
conference, that while we're debating about various pieces of the
roadmap and some of the difficult final status issues such as right to
return and the final status of Jerusalem, what everybody can agree to
now, and what I think there is agreement on now, is that we need to
get started. We need to get started, and there is so much that people
are in concurrence about with respect to the elements within the
roadmap that we can get started. And I think that Prime Minister Abbas
is ready to get started and what I got from Prime Minister Sharon
today is that he is ready to get started. In my press conference with
the foreign minister last night I specifically said, referring to him,
that I believe there is no disagreement between us, that there enough
in the roadmap about which there is no controversy, there is no
misunderstanding, that we ought to get started. And then when there
are difficult issues, such as right of return, such as Jerusalem, such
as the elements of a provisional state, this will take more time. But
let's get started now. Let's not sit around staring at each other,
waiting for someone to come out with a brilliant solution to these
difficult problems. If they were that easy to solve, they would have
been solved long ago. Let's get started now and not hang our coat on a
rack and say, "I'm going to wait until someone says a particular word,
or somebody solves an issue that we know is very difficult." Let's get
on with it now.
That was my message to both gentlemen, and I think both responded. So
I think this meeting of mine with these leaders, the meetings I've had
with these leaders, have been very productive and very useful. And I
would say to the Palestinian people the fact that I'm here after not
visiting for a year, and I'm back in the region after a difficult
visit to the region last April, when the Palestinian leadership, to
include Mr. Arafat, were trapped in the Muqata'a, surrounded, and it
took us time and American effort to get them released, when we finally
broke the problem at the church in Bethlehem, I'm now back at a time
when I'm not worrying about sieges at the Muqata'a or the church under
siege in Bethlehem, but I'm here to talk about the president's
commitment.
I'm here to talk about a changed strategic situation with the demise
of the Saddam Hussein regime and with a new Palestinian leader.
Remember, that's what we were working for: a new Palestinian leader.
We have one, and within two weeks of him being appointed, the
Secretary of State of the United States is here for the first time in
a year to engage both sides and to let them know the president's
commitment, to let them know the president wants to work with both
sides down the path of the roadmap. I think that is a statement to the
Palestinian people that we are committed and we're going to work with
them and work with their new leadership. And it's not just the United
States that wanted a new prime minister; it was the Palestinian
people, through their legislature, who caused this to happen. And so
we salute the Palestinian people, we salute the new prime minister and
his cabinet, and we look forward to working with them.
QUESTION: So how are we going to implement the mechanism of the
roadmap? How do you see it as a practical matter?
SECRETARY POWELL: As a practical matter, I see the Israeli side has
some steps that it can take and will be taking, and it shows that they
have started down that road. On the Palestinian side, we have to see
firm action taken on the security side. And in the meetings with me
today were Minister Dahlan, who has responsibility for these matters,
and we have told him that we're anxious to work with him and that
United States Government agencies, to include the CIA and other
government agencies, would be helping him reform, retrain and re-equip
and reconfigure --
QUESTION: How long would that take?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I don't know. You know, it's going to take
time. These things don't happen with the snap of a finger. A lot of
damage has been done. But at the same time, the Palestinian Authority
does have a presence, a solid presence of security forces, in certain
parts, in Gaza. And so it should be possible to reconstitute these
forces, or use those forces that are already there -- not to take over
the whole area at once, both Gaza and the West Bank all at once. And
if the capacity right now is too small to do that, then let's focus on
one area and secure [it], and make one area free of violence and free
of terror and free of provocateurs, and demonstrate to the other side
that we are serious and we have secured this area, and cause the other
side to respond to that. And as we build up capacity within the
Palestinian security forces you expand it. But to think that we can
just sit around and wait for six months to a year until we're able to
take over or the Palestinian services are able to take over everywhere
at once, we'll never get there. So we need to use the capacity that's
there now, get started, and then grow that capacity, increase that
capacity over time and ask for reciprocal action on the other side.
And what the prime minister has said clearly, and he said clearly to
me today, as soon as the Palestinian side has demonstrated their
ability to handle an area and make it secure, Israel will respond, and
respond in a positive way, and respond even more than around that
immediate area but in other areas as well.
QUESTION: But for instance, OK, we secure a town like Ramallah.
Tomorrow morning Israel goes and shoots somebody in Bethlehem, one of
the high-level figures of Hamas or Jihad. What do you think? You know,
this is a provocative sort of action that doesn't help the big people
in Ramallah to control the street. This is the vicious circle that we
have to get out of.
SECRETARY POWELL: It's a circle, a cycle that we have to break. And we
can talk about the cycle all the time and say, "what if this happens
or that happens?" and we're right back to where we started -- in which
case we're going to be right back where we started. So we have to
start someplace, and I think it starts with securing an area and
demonstrated that area is secure. The Israelis -- we discussed this
earlier today -- understand that occasionally their actions are
provocative. And so I think that they will try to limit their actions
to the greatest extent possible because they do understand that
bulldozing of houses, and the kinds of targeted assassinations we have
seen, are provocative. And their concern, of course, is if they find
somebody and they know somebody is coming at them with a bomb or a
weapon or is intending to cause harm, should they sit and wait, or do
they have a responsibility to their people to try to stop that from
happening?
I hope we can reach the point where, when you secure an area, it no
longer becomes a problem for the Israeli side, because Palestinian
forces, Palestinian police, Palestinian security institutions will be
able to intercept and stop these kinds of people. But what will really
do it, what will really do it, is if the new Palestinian leadership,
Prime Minister Abbas and all of his other leaders and members of the
legislature, say to the Palestinian people, "this must stop. We have
been at this latest Intifada for 2-1/2 years. I understand the
frustration that you feel, I understand the anger that you feel, I
understand your desire for your own homeland, for a Palestinian state.
But what we have been doing for the last 2-1/2 years has not moved us
one inch closer to that vision. And so what has it gained us? What has
it done for us?" "And so, my fellow citizens," I would say if I was a
leader of the Palestinian people, "it's time to end this kind of
activity and it's time to show that we are a peaceful people and we
want peace and we want our own state, and ask the other side to
reciprocate and ask our friends, the United States, other members of
the Quartet, other members of the international community, to help us
and to put pressure on the other side." But as long as terrorist acts
are conducted and bombs are going off, then it makes it more difficult
to put pressure on the other side for the kinds of things that
Palestinians would like to see.
QUESTION: We've been running a full-page ad for three days about the
roadmap and all the peace benefits that we are supposed to get out of
it. Some people are very for it, going for it, and some people are
very much against it. So we have to, in the end of the day, we have to
show our people, or people have to see some tangible improvement in
order to be believers in this --
SECRETARY POWELL: Of course. Of course. No, I understand that. The
roadmap is just that: it's a roadmap. It's not --
QUESTION: Are the dates rigid or are the dates flexible?
SECRETARY POWELL: The dates are the dates that the president
originally put into the roadmap, which was his desire to see a
Palestinian state by the year 2005. Of course, as time goes by without
movement, then it becomes more difficult to reach that date, but he
remains committed to that vision and to that date. And what we now
have to do is to make up for the time we lost since last June. And so
we can find a thousand reasons why we shouldn't do something, we can
find all sorts of people who will say, "I'm for the roadmap" or "I'm
not for the roadmap." You have to be for the process. You have to be
for the roadmap. And if the roadmap does not satisfy every wish, every
dream, and if there are still objections that one side or the other
will have on the roadmap, fine, that's understandable.
I've never been down a road that didn't have curves, that didn't have
obstacles, that occasionally didn't have detours. But the fact of the
matter is, this is the road you must go down. There is no other way to
move forward. Unless we take the steps that are called for in the
first part, the first phase of the roadmap, there will never be a
second phase where we can argue about what we want. And there will
never be a third phase which will require more arguments in order to
get through. And so one has to start. This is the time to start, in
this new strategic environment, with Iraq dealt with, with the
president making a full commitment to the Middle East peace process
and with a new prime minister and a new cabinet, new leaders
representing the wishes and dreams and the ambitions of the
Palestinian people -- this is the time to move forward and not find
reasons and excuses and arguments about cycles that we can never get
out of unless we take this opportunity to start breaking out of the
cycle, both sides breaking out of the cycle.
QUESTION: Last question. What about this government, what is the
priority of the government, the settlements -- are you going to freeze
this kind of settlement, make more --
SECRETARY POWELL: President Bush has spoken to this, and he has spoken
to it repeatedly: settlement activity must end. The camps that are out
there, the temporary facilities, that cannot remain; those all have to
be dealt with. Now, what you actually do with settlements that are
already there, not to be constructed and not camps and whatnot, that
is going to be a difficult issue. But President Bush understands that
it'll have to be dealt with, because the settlements that are there
make it difficult to envision what a Palestinian state would look
like. And this has been a subject of intense negotiations in the
previous Administration and will be in this Administration. But I
don't have an immediate answer for you as to how we will deal with the
settlements that are already there. There are some who say they have
to -- some of them have to be removed in order to have a contiguous
state as a possibility, and there are others who say, "Well, no, let's
just allow natural growth but no new settlements." So this will be one
of those most difficult areas. But, as opposed to right of return or
Jerusalem, it has to be dealt with earlier. It cannot be dealt with in
final stages. You have to know what you are going to do with respect
to settlements before you can get to even discussions or descriptions
of what a provisional state with provisional boundaries would look
like.
Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Bureau of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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