Military

DATE=2/10/03

TYPE=INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT (REFILE)

TITLE=GARDEN/NATO

NUMBER=3-528

BYLINE=PAT BODNAR

DATELINE=WASHINGTON

INTERNET=

/// EDS: REFILES TO CORRECT SPELLING TO GARDEN THROUGHOUT ///

///// AVAILABLE IN DALET UNDER SOD/ENGLISH NEWS NOW INTERVIEWS IN THE FOLDER FOR TODAY OR YESTERDAY /////

INTRO: The NATO alliance has plunged into crisis over a decision by France, Belgium, and Germany to block a U-S proposal for the alliance to make plans to defend Turkey in the event of war with Iraq. Tim Garden is a NATO specialist and professor in the Center for Defense Studies at King's College in London. He spoke with V-O-A's Pat Bodnar.

MR. GARDEN: The position that France and Belgium take over this is that they do not want NATO to be used as a legitimizing role for military action before inspections have a time to take place. But if Turkey were to ask for help in its defense, then it may well be that they will be prepared to allow the Patriots and AWACS planning to go ahead, but reserve the question of whether deployment will actually happen for a further decision. The key thing is that neither France nor Belgium, and in fact Germany as well, are keen to let the U.S. race away with the decision-making process.

MS. BODNAR: What effect has this disagreement had on the internal relationship, the holdouts versus the majority, that has been led by Britain, Spain and Italy in this discussion?

MR. GARDEN: NATO is under a great deal of pressure in any case. The fact that when the Kosovo operation was done in 1999, NATO was fully behind it, but it was predominantly a U-S military activity. And then when it came to Afghanistan, NATO volunteered to be fully helpful, but the U-S did not want to deal with NATO, it wanted to deal with individual nations. And I think many now within the Alliance are calling into question what is its relevance in today's world.

MS. BODNAR: We are certainly hearing that from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in his remarks about the old Europe and other comments that really indicated serious concern; possible long-term rifts do you think?

MR. GARDEN: I think so. And I think the future role of NATO is very much under question. But in many ways it has been the United States that has undermined NATO's ability to do anything, because the United States is showing that it's not enthusiastic about being entangled with NATO's consensus making. What it prefers to do is get NATO to give a general agreement to a particular operation and then to deal with each nation individually and pick up capabilities on a bilateral basis rather than have them organized by the NATO organization. So, I think NATO feels sidelined in any case.

MS. BODNAR: We are going to have a showdown of sorts on Friday with France and Germany. And Russia is now saying that it appears to be in solidarity with France and Germany, about trying to extend inspections, trying to get more time and possibly even to bring Iraq into some sort of U.N. protectorate. How is that going to fly?

MR. GARDEN: It has been clear that France and Germany on the Security Council and, to an extent, Russia and China, are wanting to give the inspectors more time. And what they have done by putting together this particular scheme is give something that can be discussed; if you like, a counterproposal to the one that says a new resolution is needed to authorize military action. So, I think what is going to happen in any case now is the Security Council will spend much longer discussing these things. The real question is whether the United States and the United Kingdom are prepared to wait until that discussion is finished.

HOST: Tim Garden is a professor at King's College in London and a NATO specialist. He was speaking with NewsNow's Pat Bodnar.

NEB/PB/RAE