Military

DATE=8/12/02

TYPE=INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

TITLE=ARTHUR HELTON

NUMBER=3-289

BYLINE=TOM CROSBY

DATELINE=

INTERNET=

/// Editors: This interview is available in Dalet under SOD/English News Now Interviews in the folder for today or yesterday ///

HOST: The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (U-N-H-C-R) says Iran is pressuring Afghan refugees to return home against their will. A spokeswoman for the UNHCR says the agency is scrambling to build factilities in the Afghan city of Herat to hold any flood of refugees. Tehran says it is not forcing these refugees to go home. Iranian officials say they have reached an oral agreement with the U-N agency to interview undocumented Afghans, who are obligated to leave Iran under an accord signed last week. And the Interior ministry says the government has extended the deadline for the undocumented refugees to register themselves and receive travel papers to repatriation centers on the border.

Still, the presence of so many Afghans in places such as Iran does create pressures for them to go home. Arthur Helton is a leading authority on refugee and immigration issues at the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations. Speaking with News Now's Tom Crosby from his home in New York Sunday...he said Afghan refugees pose a problem...not just for Iran...but for another of Afghanistan's neighbors:

MR. HELTON: Afghan refugees have been hosted in Iran and Pakistan now for many years. Nearly 1.5 million Afghan refugees have returned already to Afghanistan, far more than the United Nations ever anticipated. And undoubtedly there is going to be pressure on both sides, in terms of Pakistan and Iran, to press for the return of additional refugees. This is going to, I think, be a recurring problem, and we are only seeing it beginning now.

MR. CROSBY: The Iranians, of course, are saying that they are not pressuring them to leave, but those who are eligible or who may become eligible are being moved to camps somewhat closer to the border. Is that where we normally would find refugees, in such border camps, not just in Iran but in Pakistan and elsewhere?

MR. HELTON: In Iran, many of the refugees had integrated into cities, into local society, so the decision to concentrate them in camps closer to the border certainly is a way to encourage greater returns and in fact, ultimately, to facilitate returns, voluntary or not. So in that sense it's very much a policy designed to promote return.

MR. CROSBY: What kind of numbers are we talking about when we talk about displaced Afghans?

MR. HELTON: All in all, it was nearly 5 million displaced Afghans, mostly externally displaced, mostly in Pakistan, and then Iran. So you may have upwards of 2 million refugees in Iran. Returns are slower there because they had been deeply integrated into Iranian society. They are performing jobs that Iranians won't take. They are integrated into larger cities. But to concentrate them in border camps really does serve as a prelude to return, voluntary or not. And there is going to be a great pressure toward return.

MR. CROSBY: When these people are integrated into some of the cities in Iran and, as you say, taking jobs that are not usually wanted by other Iranians, doesn't that create a difficulty for Iranians in those cities when these people depart?

MR. HELTON: It can. These are uneasy situations. Iran has hosted many refugees, not only from Afghanistan but that has been one of their larger populations, but the Government of Iran has decided that that is an appropriate policy response. But some of the local cities and local authorities, where refugees go to, of course, experience concerns and the local people are put under pressure. So there is a very organic pressure toward the promotion of the return of Afghan refugees, and I think the national authorities are likely to pay some heed to that.

MR. CROSBY: Arthur, what awaits these people when they get back to Afghanistan right now?

MR. HELTON: Well, there is very little, in the sense that 1.5 million refugees have returned to a situation of uncertain security and very meager absorptive capacity in terms of shelter or employment. Certainly Kabul has had some benefits in terms of international resources. But we see every week reports of quarrelling warlords. We see the difficulties of reconstituting a devastated society. So refugees will be returning to a devastated country.

MR. CROSBY: It doesn't sound, though, as if an infusion of foreign aid from around the world is the immediate remedy right now?

MR. HELTON: It's certainly a necessary element but not in any sense a remedy that extends throughout Afghanistan. Security and insecurity issues are such that while Kabul may be relatively secure for ordinary people, even though it may not be all that secure for the leaders of the Afghan transitional authority, around the country insecurity might pose a real problem in terms of people coming and reconstituting their lives. Many people are simply returning and moving onward to large cities, and we're going to see large new urban populations evolving in those cities. And that could be another source of instability in the future. We really have to be careful about how this is handled.

HOST: Refugee and immigration specialist Arthur Helton of the Council on Foreign Relations. He spoke to VOA News Now's Tom Crosby.

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