01 June 2002
Wolfowitz Discusses Asian Security Issues on CNN
(Deputy Secretary of Defense interviewed in Singapore) (1430)
Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, interviewed by CNN June 1
in Singapore, where he was attending the Asia Security Conference
sponsored by the International Institute for Strategic Studies, warned
of the "tragic situation" between India and Pakistan, and discussed al
Qaeda involvement in regional movements and the security situations in
the Philippines and Indonesia.
On the latter subject, he said U.S. officials believe that for
democracy to succeed in Indonesia the country's military needs to end
abusive practices that destroy democracy, and especially needs to
become more effective in preserving civil order and protecting the
rights of minorities, so it can prevent violence between religious
communities that could tear the country apart.
Following is the Pentagon transcript of the interview:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of Defense
News Transcript
Presenter: Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz
Saturday, June 1, 2002
Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz Interview with CNN
(Interview with Maria Ressa, CNN Jakarta, in Singapore.)
Ressa: How would you assess the situation between India and Pakistan?
Wolfowitz: We're very concerned. The tensions are building. There are
serious forces deployed on both sides of the border. Both sides are
wanting control. Continued infiltration and incidents along that line
of control in Kashmir, and it's a very tragic situation. That's why
the State Dept ordered this voluntary departure.
Ressa: In your meeting yesterday with the secretary from India, the
minister of defense, did you come out with anything that helped ease
some of the tensions in your mind?
Wolfowitz: I think my purpose is more to get a better understanding
from him of the situation as he sees it, as his government sees it.
It's really going to be deputy secretary Armitage later. Secretary
Rumsfeld will be going out formerly talking to both governments with
whatever the clear message is that the US wants to send. Obviously I
reinforced our basic concern and this is a situation that would have
enormous potential for spinning out of control and great dangers for
both parties, for the U.S., for the whole region, the whole world.
Ressa: In your conversation did you feel that he had that sense also?
Wolfowitz: George Schultz taught me not to characterize other people's
views -- you'd have to ask him!
Ressa: What's the extent of al Qaeda's reach here in Southeast Asia?
Wolfowitz: It's there. I think it's serious so I want to point out,
it's there in Europe, it's there in the U.S. It's serious in those
places because sometimes when we start to talk about their reach into
Southeast Asia particularly into Indonesia. Indonesia's reacted as
thought we're accusing Indonesia. We're not any more than I'm accusing
the U.S. These people are there, but they take advantage of places to
hide and there's some attraction to them being obviously in being in a
country with a large Muslim population but we're talking about tiny
numbers relative to the enormous country.
Ressa: Last night the senior minister talked about how al Qaeda in
effect hijacked regional movements in Southeast Asia. First, do you
agree with his assessment and his assessment of how much conflicts
like the Moluccas -- how much of conflicts that were once thought of
domestic issues in your assessment are fueled by al Qaeda?
Wolfowitz: There's a real potential there and it's dangerous to go to
different parts of the world -- Chechnya. It's disturbing how much
that outside of al Qaeda presence what a role it played in starting
the second Chechnyan war. It was -- who turned out to be an al Qaeda
Arab. It was his incursion into Pakistan that dragged a relatively
moderate Chechnyan government into something that they had no desire
to be in. And it makes sense, I mean these are people who profit when
divisions and cleavages and conflicts between Muslims and non-Muslims
occur so I don't know whether -- I suspect they were not behind the
Christian Muslim violence in Indonesia, for example, but I'm quite
sure they were delighted by it if they can figure out a way to get in
there and exploit it. That's on their agenda.
Ressa: How do you deal also with some of the nations you're dealing
with in Southeast Asia are good at denial in some ways, the denial in
the Philippines for example the denial of the MILF [Moro Islamic
Liberation Front] committing terrorism in Indonesia? The vice
president just said two days ago that if Indonesia were to arrest any
terrorists he would be the first that they should arrest. How do you
work with this?
Wolfowitz: I'm not sure it's denial. To tell you the truth, by and
large over 20 years, more than 20 years really by now, I'd hate to
think how long it's been but working with many different governments.
I think at core there's a lot of realism in this part of the world.
Sometimes that realism is guarded a little bit in the way people
express that. In fact there's a lot of realism. The case you mentioned
is I would say a phenomenon of something we haven't had to think about
in the Indonesian context for a long time which is that it's a
democratic country with some people with very very different views and
politicians courting what they think is public opinion, or popular
opinion. I have heard other people express the view that Mr. Hamzah
Haz made a miscalculation in thinking that move would appeal to the
Indonesian public opinion. I hope that's right because I think the
mainstream of Indonesian Muslims are very moderate.
Ressa: There've been lots of arrests though from Singapore, Malaysia
and Philippines. One arrest in Indonesia, not for terrorism, in your
view is Indonesia doing enough in the war against terrorism?
Wolfowitz: They've actually done a little more than that. Some of that
they don't want to acknowledge and some of it has been helping the
Philippines make one of those arrests you referred to. I think the
Indonesian situation is more delicate than the other three you
mentioned. I think each of the neighbors would probably acknowledge
that readily and our FBI director was in Indonesia just a month or two
ago and express general satisfaction with the efforts they're making
and I think those efforts have only improved in time since then.
Ressa: Last night the -- I'll just follow up on the military in
Indonesia -- senior minister said that push for active engagement. How
did you react to that?
Wolfowitz: I think I indicated myself in public, especially after
meeting with the Indonesian defense minister yesterday, that we
believe that for democracy to succeed in Indonesia, it needs two
things from its military. It needs reform so that the military stops
some of the abusive practices of the past that are destructive to
democracy. But also it needs, particularly in Indonesia, it needs a
military that can be effective in preserving civil order and
preserving the rights of minorities in preventing violence between
religious communities which could ultimately tear that country apart
so one has to do both at the same time and we hope -- we're trying to
move forward on both agendas.
Ressa: About 1,000 US troops in the Philippines are headed there in
the next two days. How long will the troops stay there and with regard
to the hostages -- will they be -- will they pull out without any
result on that front?
Wolfowitz: The basic result that we're working for is to help the
Philippine armed forces be as effective as they possibly can
protecting their own country and I know profoundly from some intense
work with the Philippines back when I was [assistant] secretary of
state a long time ago, just how strongly Filipinos feel about their
sovereignty, their independence and we are the former colonial power
-- we want to help but we do not want to intrude and I think we'll
consider our mission accomplished when we brought the Philippine armed
forces up to the level they're capable of achieving.
Ressa: If you're requested to stay, will the U.S. forces want to stay?
Wolfowitz: We are always open to discussions with good friends like
the Philippines and I'm going to be going there and I'm looking
forward to meeting with President Arroyo and going down to Zamboanga
and meeting our troops.
Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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