10 May 2002
Rumsfeld Says 'Smart Sanctions' Won't Stop Saddam
(May 10 media availability with U.S., Italian defense ministers)
(2400)
The United States is participating in discussions within the United
Nations on the new, so-called "smart sanctions" being considered
against Saddam Hussein's regime, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
told reporters May 10.
Iraq, Rumsfeld said, has long, porous borders that are not likely to
be sealed well enough to prevent the smuggling of things that will
enhance Iraq's military capability, adding that it is "common
knowledge in the world that Iraq has an enormous appetite for weapons
of mass destruction and military capabilities."
Rumsfeld said he believes that under a new sanctions regime "things
will be better than they were. But there's no question, if you have a
determined dictator, as we do with Saddam Hussein, that he's going to
continue to improve his military capability, as he has been in recent
months."
For example, he noted, Iraq has been bringing things in claiming they
are civilian goods and then converting them to military purposes.
Rumsfeld's comments about Iraq came during a media availability at the
Pentagon with Italian Defense Minister Antonio Martino after their
meeting to discuss U.S.-Italian cooperation in Operation Enduring
Freedom, Iraq, and NATO affairs.
Asked about Afghanistan and the recent discovery by British troops of
a sizable cache of weapons, Rumsfeld said U.S. and coalition forces
continue periodically to unearth weapons and ammunition during sweeps
in eastern Afghanistan.
"There is no doubt but that there are many, many more of those caches
... whether it's mortars, artillery pieces, missiles, small arms,
ammunition," he said, adding that the sweeps "will likely continue,
and I suspect we'll continue to find these types of caches."
Asked whether the United States would become more involved in
searching for specific Afghan warlords, Rumsfeld replied, "We have
made no changes in our policy whatsoever."
He said American and coalition troops would continue to seek out al
Qaeda and Taliban terrorists and kill them or capture them, and would
try to create "an environment in the country so that refugees can
return home, so that humanitarian assistance can be provided, schools
can be opened and the interim government can begin to find its legs
and contribute to a civil society."
Rumsfeld also answered questions about U.S. Army Secretary Thomas
White and the cancellation of the Crusader artillery system.
Following is the Defense Department transcript of the media
availability:
(begin transcript)
JOINT MEDIA AVAILABILITY WITH ITALIAN DEFENSE MINISTER ANTONIO MARTINO
AND U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE DONALD RUMSFELD
The Pentagon River Entrance
Arlington, Virginia
Friday, May 10, 2002
SEC. RUMSFELD: Greetings!
We have had a good session. As a matter of fact, I -- Minister Martino
of Italy and I had a visit yesterday as well, but we've just completed
a meeting with our respective staffs and had a good discussion on a --
about NATO and our partnership there, about the role that Italy is
playing in Operation Enduring Freedom, and the activities they have
with respect to the International Security Assistance Force. We talked
about a broad range of issues. And I'm delighted to have the minister
here. He's a good friend. And I would ask him if he would like to make
a few remarks, and then we'll turn to questions.
MIN. MARTINO: Just to add that as usual, as has happened before, it
was a pleasure to have this meeting with Secretary Rumsfeld and the
feeling that I'm talking to an old friend and we share so many views,
we have so many things in common. I'm looking forward to a continued
relationship of friendship and in the defense of the common values
that we share for a long time.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Thank you.
I don't see Charlie.
Q: He's not here.
Q: He's not here today.
Q: He's not here today.
Q: Go to Barbara instead.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Barbara! (Laughs.) She's not -- she doesn't look like
Charlie. (Laughs.)
(Laughter.)
Q: Thank you. Can I ask you a question, Mr. Secretary, about Iraq,
something different, at the moment? You've expressed a lot of
skepticism in the past about the resumption of inspections and whether
or not they can be effective. And as the United Nations moves next
week towards imposing more flexible sanctions on Iraq, an easing of
sanctions, do you also have skepticism or doubt that these new,
so-called smart sanctions will be full proof, or do you have any
concerns that Iraq may use it as an opportunity to get dual-use
military-capable equipment into the country?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, I'm not an expert on the -- what will eventually
evolve in these discussions that have been going on. I'm familiar with
it at various stages
But Iraq has a lot of border. They're porous borders. Quite apart from
what's permitted and not permitted, there's a great deal that's moving
across their border, and it is common knowledge in the world that Iraq
has an enormous appetite for weapons of mass destruction and military
capabilities. They've used them on their neighbors. They've invaded
neighbors, and they -- Saddam Hussein has declared a number of
neighboring states as being illegitimate.
So I -- with respect to dual-use capabilities, we know of certain
knowledge that -- the reality is that there are things that can be
used both very effectively for civilian purposes and very effectively
for military purposes. There are also things that can be converted
from seemingly innocent purposes to clearly not innocent purposes.
So if the question goes not to what's going to happen by way of the
vote, but to a question as to whether or not it's likely that those
borders will be sealed and prevent things that will enhance Iraq's
military capability, I think the answer's it will not. I think the
discussions are useful, and certainly the United States has been
participating in those, and I'm -- have every confidence that things
will be better than they were. But there's no question, if you have a
determined dictator, as we do with Saddam Hussein, that he's going to
continue to improve his military capability, as he has been in recent
months.
Q: What has he done in recent months, sir?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, he has been bringing things in that he has been
converting to military purposes.
Q: You mean dual-use technology that he's using to weaponize any
particular --
SEC. RUMSFELD: It is technology that becomes dual-use when it's
converted for a military purpose.
Q: Mr. Secretary?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Yes.
Q: Can I ask you a question on Afghanistan? Could you fill us in on
the latest on the British search? They found a big cache of weapons.
And also, what are your thoughts about turning attention to the
warlord Hekmatyar and any -- does that signal any kind of new
direction for the war?
SEC. RUMSFELD: There is no question but that a sizable cache has been
located. It is not unusual that that's the case. We have been finding
them, as you know, periodically over recent months. There is no doubt
but that there are many, many more of those caches of -- whether it's
mortars, artillery pieces, missiles, small arms, ammunition. We found
a large -- truckloads -- numerous truckloads full. And it is a useful
thing to be conducting these sweeps. These sweeps will likely
continue, and I suspect we'll continue to find those types of caches.
I don't know that I have anything to say about the Hekmatyar issue.
Q: But do you think that it -- many people, including Human Rights
Watch, have labeled him a notorious criminal, and he deserves to be a
military target. Will the U.S. military become more involved in
searching for warlords, like these notorious types?
SEC. RUMSFELD: We have made no changes in our policy whatsoever. The
policy of the United States is to do exactly what we've said on
repeated occasions: to find the al Qaeda and the Taliban and to kill
them or capture them and to see that they aren't able to destabilize
the interim -- Afghan interim authority; and to try to contribute to a
security environment through the International Security Assistance
Force and our forces and the regional political leaders that have
militias, their forces, where we have people working with them; to try
to create an environment in the country so that refugees can return
home, so that humanitarian assistance can be provided, schools can be
opened and the interim government can begin to find its legs and
contribute to a civil society.
Q: (In Italian.)
MIN. MARTINO: (Begins in Italian) -- I answer in Italian.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Sure.
MIN. MARTINO: (In Italian.)
Q: The Army has concluded its investigation into the Crusader, the
talking points, the whole Crusader incident. In your view, does
Secretary White bear no responsibility for this episode?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, you know, I'm the secretary of Defense, and if
someone in the department does something that one would wish they
hadn't, that's my responsibility. So, too, if something happens in the
Army, it's his responsibility. On the other hand, he was without
knowledge of what took place, and in my view, he has addressed the
subject. There's been an inspector general's report, which I have not
read, but I have had it summarized for me by the deputy general
counsel, and I'm aware of the statement that has been made, and I
believe that it has been handled properly.
Q: Is the matter now closed, or will there be any other disciplinary
action taken?
SEC. RUMSFELD: In terms of disciplinary action, my understanding is
that the -- one of the individuals who was involved directly at a
senior level has submitted his resignation -- voluntarily, I should
add, to his credit -- and is departing. The -- whatever else might be
done with respect to legislative liaison and how it's organized and
its size and those types of things, I think, would not be -- fall in
the subject of disciplinary.
So the answer to your question is, this would complete whatever might
be done disciplinary -- from a disciplinary standpoint, although I
would not say it's necessarily all that that will be done.
Q: Are you heading for a showdown with Capitol Hill over the Defense
budget?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Oh, wouldn't you love that, Jamie?
Q: (Chuckles.)
SEC. RUMSFELD: Wouldn't you love it? (Chuckles.)
Q: (Laughs.)
SEC. RUMSFELD: No, I don't think so. I think a showdown is -- you mean
like "High Noon," with pistols and things? I doubt that.
I think what'll actually happen is that the constitutional system that
we have will work, and work well. And we will use our best judgment,
make decisions, recommend them to the Congress, and then provide the
persuasive presentations that will end up persuading a sufficient
number of the members of the House and Senate that our position is a
sound and rational one from the standpoint of the United States armed
forces, and that we'll end up prevailing.
Q: Minister, did you discuss about the financial terms of the Italian
participation into the Joint Strike Fighter project?
MIN. MARTINO: Well, the details of the participation of Italy in the
Joint Strike Fighter project are certainly not to be discussed with
the secretary of Defense. This would be dealt with at the technical
level.
What I did do is I informed the secretary, and he already knew that we
have submitted the project to the committees in both houses for the
approval of the project.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Last question.
Q: Mr. Secretary, the IG report said that Secretary White had directed
his staff to continue to answer questions saying the Army supported
the Crusader after Secretary Wolfowitz told him that it was about to
be cancelled. Does that --
SEC. RUMSFELD: I -- just so we get everyone on the same wavelength, I
don't believe that's correct.
Q: You don't believe that he told his staff to --
SEC. RUMSFELD: I don't believe that your characterization of the
statement that was made by the Army is correct.
Q: It is correct.
Q: That's what was in their press release this morning.
Q: Yeah, that's what their press release said but -- (inaudible) --
your understanding of what he said -- does that -- (inaudible) --
SEC. RUMSFELD: My -- well, let me give you my understanding. My
understanding is roughly this -- and I think that press release
probably says something reasonably close to it -- I hope it does -- if
it doesn't', Torie [Clarke], raise your right arm when I misspeak --
(soft laughter) -- that the Department of the Army, including the
secretary, continued to support the president's budget, which included
Crusader, until he was advised explicitly to the contrary -- that a
final decision had been made. And at that point, he discontinued
supporting what had been the president's budget and began supporting
the president's budget reflecting that decision.
Q: So you don't see his actions as undercutting your authority at all?
SEC. RUMSFELD: I don't. (Soft laughter.)
Q: Can we ask the minister one more question?
SEC. RUMSFELD: You bet.
Q: Sir, could you just help us understand Italy's current position --
the government position on accepting any of the Palestinians that have
come out of the Church of the Nativity? Is your government willing to
accept any of those people into Italy?
MIN. MARTINO: Well, first of all, let me say that as minister of
defense, I'm not competent in that area. And I've been away from Italy
for a few days, so I don't know what the government official policy
is, but I have a pretty good idea. And the idea is: We shall do what
we can -- what is necessary to help the peace process resume, to solve
this impasse in the situation, which means that the -- (inaudible) --
we probably accept -- I don't know under what legal position, one or
more of these terrorists. I doubt that that's going to be the last
step in the decision. I am sure that the -- having these people come
-- go to various country is only one step towards some other kind of
solution. That cannot be a long-lasting idea of having those people
live in other countries.
Q: Would you have them in some sort of confinement in Italy, or would
they be allowed to be free?
MIN. MARTINO: You would have to ask my colleague of the interior. He
has control over the police forces. I don't know what the decision has
been made.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Thank you very much, folks.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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