Military

DATE=4/26/02

TYPE=INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

TITLE=ROBERT OSTERGARD

NUMBER=3-152

BYLINE=TOM CROSBY

DATELINE=WASHINGTON

INTERNET=

HOST: The President's comments (in his news conference after his meeting with Crown Prince Abdullah) on ending financing for terrorism came in a week that saw the capture of at least three more people alleged to be helping fund terrorist organizations. Lebanese authorities say Ali Mahmud al-Hajj was stopped at Beirut International Airport. He is believed to have raised funds for the Islamic group Osbat al-Ansar which is on a list of organizations whose assets have been frozen by the United States for suspected ties to al-Qaida. And Spanish police this week announced the arrest of another suspected al-Qaida financier (Ghasboub al-Abrah al Ghalyoun)...just one day after the arrest of Muhammed Kalaje Zouaydi. Authorities believe Mister Zouaydi used business profits to finance al-Qaida operations. (from CN-99, CN-108 4/24/02)

Robert Ostergard is a political scientist at Binghamton University in New York and teaches a course on war and terrorism. We asked him just what draws the money people to extremist groups:

MR. OSTERGARD: I think, in part, what people find is that they too may share some of the beliefs and some of the attitudes of people who are more active within an organization. But at the same time they are not in a position to be active in the military sense -- that is, in carrying out activities, for whatever reason. That is, they may have a higher profile within the country or they do not want to be directly linked in one way or another. So one way of supporting an organization like this or some type of militant cause is by financing. That way they are able to stay true to the intent, while at the same time maintaining some distance.

MR. CROSBY: But, Bob, does not this fly in the face of some logic, given that so many of these financiers are themselves rather wealthy people and the terrorist groups they are supporting tend to stand opposed to the systems that produce wealth?

MR. OSTERGARD: It seems like a contradiction. On the other hand, I think most terrorist groups -- and certainly you can include al-Qaida amongst them, because al-Qaida was in many ways almost like a large multinational corporation -- terrorist groups still understand, even though they may be against wealth accumulation or whatever their goals may be relative to that, they still understand that they need money in order to carry out their operations. And so, in order to be effective, the one thing that terrorists need above and beyond anything else is some type of financial support.

And what is it that we can do to stamp out terrorism? One of the things that people focus on is cutting their financing. And so if you are able to cut financing, you are able to start cutting out the legs from underneath a group like that.

MR. CROSBY: When these groups are financed, of course they need money for supplies. They need money for weaponry. But are the members themselves receiving salaries?

MR. OSTERGARD: It would depend on the organization. I know, for example, in the al-Qaida organization itself, members were given some type of support. So, if they were, for example, carrying out one of the embassy bombings in East Africa, we know that some of the members who were involved in that embassy bombing had actual financial support. But it was around that time that it was also becoming very limited; al-Qaida's funding was actually starting to be restricted. So, it is going to depend upon the type of operation that gets carried and, at the same time, how long that operation may take, and of course where that operation is going to be based.

So there is a level of consistent funding, but I think it is unusual. For al-Qaida, it worked out, and they had consistent funding like that, but for many other terrorist groups, I do not think that is necessarily the case.

HOST: Binghamton University political scientist Robert Ostergard.

NEB/TC/SAB