(Focuses on Middle East, Iraq, Afghanistan, U.S. nuclear weapons
posture) (3885)
Following is a transcript of an interview March 10 with Secretary of
State Colin Powell on CBS's Face the Nation in which the Secretary
discussed the Middle East situation, including the separate visits of
General Anthony Zinni and of Vice President Dick Cheney to the region,
and the upcoming Arab summit; the U.S. nuclear weapons posture; Iraq
and weapons of mass destruction; the war in Afghanistan; and the
presence of al-Qaida and Taliban members in Pakistan:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of State
INTERVIEW BY BOB SCHIEFFER AND GLORIA BORGER OF CBS'S FACE THE NATION
SECRETARY COLIN L. POWELL
Washington, DC
March 10, 2002
(10:33 a.m. EST)
MR. SCHIEFFER: Good morning, again. The Secretary of State is in the
studio with us. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much. We'll get right to
it. The Middle East seems worse than ever, once again. You're sending
your man, General Zinni, back out to the region. What are you telling
him to do? Does he have a plan? Is he just going to try to get the
violence stopped? What do you expect from him?
SECRETARY POWELL: General Zinni is going out with a specific mission,
and that is to get both sides to agree to enter the Tenet work plan
and to participate in the execution of the Tenet work plan. The Tenet
work plan is part of our long-range process of getting to the Mitchell
process, and that will get us into negotiations, negotiations that
ultimately will lead to discussions on the basis of UN Resolutions 242
and 338.
So we have a vision. We have a plan to solve this crisis. But it
begins with ending the violence. And what General Zinni is going to do
is to get both sides together, sit them down, get security
conversations to begin, get the violence down. But not just talk back
and forth. Do it in the framework of the Tenet plan.
We're sending him back at this time because both sides indicated
receptivity to a visit by General Zinni at this point. He's going to
stay in the region and fight his way through this. We're not going to
allow acts of violence to stop General Zinni from doing his work. And
I'm pleased that Prime Minister Sharon, a couple of days ago,
indicated that his requirement for days of quiet being set aside so
that we can get this going. I hope that this is the beginning of the
end to this violence.
But the violence continues. It's horrible. I condemn the acts of
violence that were perpetrated yesterday against innocent Israeli
citizens. I also have to be concerned about some of the responses from
the Israeli side. I know that they are executing acts of self-defense;
they are under attack. But at the same time, I think we have to be
careful about situations where humanitarian or Red Cross or Red
Crescent or doctors and people like that are injured in the course of
doing their work.
So this is the time for both sides to exercise maximum restraint in
order to make sure that General Zinni can come in with some hopeful
circumstances.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Now let me just kind of go through a little explanation
here. When you say the Tenet plan, this is a series of steps to dial
back the violence that was kind of worked out by CIA Director Tenet
when he was out there.
SECRETARY POWELL: Exactly.
MR. SCHIEFFER: And the Mitchell Plan you're talking about, this is the
plan that George Mitchell, the former Senate Democratic leader, had
worked out some time back. So you're going to try to work within the
framework of those two plans.
Let me move to something else, Mr. Secretary, that has to do with that
region. As you well know, a top secret policy paper was leaked to the
Los Angeles Times this week. It outlines our nuclear strategy, and,
among other things, it says that nuclear weapons would be an option in
any kind of a confrontation with -- it lists Russia, with China. It
also lists Iraq.
What can you tell us about that? And are nuclear weapons on the table
should it come to a showdown with Saddam Hussein?
SECRETARY POWELL: Let's put this in context.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Okay.
SECRETARY POWELL: I think there is less than meets the eye, and less
than meets the headline, with respect to this story. We are always
reviewing our options -- military options, conventional weapons,
nuclear weapons. We're always reviewing our diplomatic and economic
and political options. And one of the things we are required to do by
Congress is to make a review of our nuclear weapons posture, and this
particular study took note of two important developments since the
last study was done.
One, the Soviet Union is gone and Russia has fundamentally changed
with respect to its relationship with the United States. President
Bush took note of this even before he came into office, saying we're
going to reduce the number of nuclear weapons that we keep in our
inventory because Russia has changed. And in the first year of his
administration, Russia clearly is becoming a friend and not an
adversary, and we hope to lock in with the Russians a reduced number
of nuclear weapons that we keep in our force structure.
The other development that this study took into account is that there
are nations out there developing weapons of mass destruction. And
prudent planners have to give some consideration as to the range of
options the President should have available to him to deal with those
kinds of threats. Right now, today, not a single nation on the face of
the earth is being targeted by an American nuclear weapon on a
day-to-day basis. We just don't do that. And so this is prudent
military planning, and it's the kind of planning I think the American
people would expect.
There is also an aspect of the story saying we're getting ready to
develop new nuclear weapons. We are not. What we are looking at, and
what we have tasked the Pentagon to do, is to see whether or not
within our lowered inventory levels we might want to modify or update
or change some of the weapons in our inventory to make them more
effective. But we are not developing brand new nuclear weapons, and we
are not planning to undergo any testing. So I want to make sure we
don't get the international community upset by what is essentially
sound conceptual planning on the part of the administration.
MR. SCHIEFFER: But let me ask you just about another part of this,
because I remember that before the United States went to war with
Iraq, the last thing that the Bush Administration did was to send the
Secretary of State Jim Baker to Iraq and to say to Saddam Hussein we
want you to know that nuclear weapons are an option. He didn't say
we're going to use them. He said we're not going to take that option
off the table.
Are we saying the same thing?
SECRETARY POWELL: I was in the administration as that administration's
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and what Jim Baker did, and
what we all did, was to make it clear to the Iraqis that the President
of the United States and the American people had a full range of
options available to them. Obviously a full range of options goes from
an M-16 rifle to a nuclear device. You don't have to --
MR. SCHIEFFER: Is that still the policy?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, the President has a full range of options
available to him. But we are not looking for a war, and it seems most
unlikely that, among all the options we have, this is an option we
would have to exercise in any foreseeable way that I can understand
it.
But I think it is very useful for people to know that there is a full
range of options. This is not new to this administration. The previous
administration made the same point in a declaratory statement that
Secretary Bill Perry, during the Clinton Administration, put out and
which still remains US policy.
But the headlines suggesting that somehow we are now targeting
specific individual countries, whereas all that study said, as
reported in the newspapers, is that this class of nations -- Iran,
Iraq, Syria, North Korea -- are developing the kinds of weapons of
mass destruction that should be troubling to all of us. And we have
said this for many, many years -- previous administrations and this
administration -- and it is prudent for the American President and for
our Department of Defense to examine all the options that are going to
be available to an American President as he deals with the threats
that are out there in the world.
MS. BORGER: A couple of follow-ups here to Bob's questions, Mr.
Secretary. First of all, does this represent a change in our nuclear
first-strike policy?
SECRETARY POWELL: No. Our nuclear first-strike -- which -- you have to
be a little more precise, so I can be precise.
MS. BORGER: Well, you can -- why don't you say does it --
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, there are two aspects to this. The United
States has never said we would not strike first against some nation
that possesses nuclear weapons. It's an important point because we
think it is best for any potential adversary out there to have
uncertainty in his calculus. But we have also said, as a declaratory
statement -- this gets a little tricky -- but for those nations that
are non-nuclear possessing nations, we would have no intention of
fighting them with nuclear weapons unless a certain set of
circumstances came into place where they aligned themselves with
nations that might have nuclear weapons, or get into weapons of mass
destruction.
So there is a theology associated with all of this, but you know we
have a range of military options that can be used to defend the nation
and defend our interests and our allies around the world, and we
should not get all carried away with some sense that the United States
is planning to use nuclear weapons in some contingency that is coming
up in the near future. It is not the case. What the Pentagon has done
with this study is sound military conceptual planning, and the
President will take that planning and he will give his directions as
to how to proceed.
MS. BORGER: I'd like to go back to the Middle East for a moment, if I
might. There is an Arab summit coming up in Beirut at the end of this
month. Can you tell us what you would like to see coming out of that
summit?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I am encouraged by the fact that the Arab
foreign ministers are meeting now, over the last several days, and
there is consensus growing around the idea of the Crown Prince of
Saudi Arabia, Crown Prince Abdullah, for this vision that he presented
to The New York Times a week or so ago that all of the Arab nations
should show a willingness to recognize Israel's right to exist and
normalize relations with Israel, meaning diplomatic relations, in
response for peace and in response to some settlement of the borders
between Israel and a new state that we would call Palestine. And the
President has said that is his vision as well.
Now, the way the Crown Prince stated the nature of that boundary is
going to be a subject of intense discussion and debate, but I would be
very pleased if, when the Arab League met at the end of the month,
they would put some texture to the Crown Prince's vision.
MS. BORGER: Do you think that Israel should lift the travel ban on
Yasser Arafat so that he can attend this meeting?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think that Prime Minister Sharon should give this
serious consideration. As we get closer to the time of the summit, as
you know, there was great concern on the part of the Prime Minister
over the murder of Minister Zeevi. Some of the individuals responsible
who have been identified as being responsible have been arrested, and
I hope that as we move forward over the next week or two before the
summit, the Prime Minister can take a look at the situation and make a
judgment as to whether it serves his interest or serves the interest
of getting this crisis behind us to let Mr. Arafat attend the summit.
But it is not something we are going to deal with in the next day or
two.
MR. SCHIEFFER: All right, let's take a break here. We'll come back in
a minute and talk more about this, and also about the war in
Afghanistan in just a moment.
MR. SCHIEFFER: And we're back again with the Secretary of State. Mr.
Secretary, before we go to Afghanistan, let's talk a little bit more
about Iraq. This whole business of inspections, getting Iraq opened
back up. There were meetings at the United Nations about this. How is
that coming along, and where do you think it's going?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, the Iraqi Foreign Minister came to New York
and spoke to Secretary General Kofi Annan and to Hans Blix, the
gentleman who would actually run the inspection program. And I know
that Kofi Annan said to the Iraqis these have to be the right kinds of
inspections, and you can't put conditions on what our inspectors have
to do. President Bush has repeatedly called for the inspectors to go
back in. The Iraqis heard, I think, the message clearly from the
Secretary General, and I think they'll be coming back for another
meeting with the Secretary General in April. And we'll see what
happens.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Well, do you have any idea that they would go along
with this, or that they would --
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know what they will do. It's hard to predict
what the Iraqis will do. But the one thing I am absolutely sure of is
that we will not bend the standards, we will not step back, we will
not allow them to try to drag us into some regime where these
inspectors are not able to go where they have to go when they have to
go to see whatever it is they believe is suspicious. We cannot accept
that kind of change to the inspection regime.
If the Iraqis are not doing this, and they say they are not developing
weapons of mass destruction, then let the inspectors in. Let the
inspectors in to verify it. They can see what's happening overtly and
they can try to find out what the Iraqis may have put underground as
well.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Well, is there a deadline?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, these UN resolutions --
MR. SCHIEFFER: I mean, do we see a deadline?
SECRETARY POWELL: These UN resolutions will continue in effect. The
Oil-for-Food program and the sanctions will remain against the Iraqis
until they comply with the demand of the international community that
they account for the weapons of mass destruction and the programs that
they had underway at the end of the Gulf War, and which we are quite
sure they have continued. They say they haven't. If they haven't, let
the inspectors in.
MS. BORGER: Just to clarify for a moment what you're saying here, are
you saying complete, unfettered inspections, 24/7, any time we want,
no prior notification?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think that's the way you conduct an inspection
with this kind of regime. But of course Dr. Blix, Hans Blix, will have
his set of standards. I've given you what I think is the right way to
go about it.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Let's talk a little bit about Afghanistan. How is this
current operation going? How is the war overall going?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I think the war overall is going well. When
you look at the objectives we've set for ourselves, we've broken the
Taliban, we've broken al-Qaida, we have put in place a new government,
an Interim Authority, and we are starting now to help that Interim
Authority actually govern the country and provide for the people.
At the same time, as we said at the very beginning, there are
continuing problems. We have to make sure that we dig out all of the
remaining al-Qaida and Taliban, and this battle that you've been
watching for the last week or two essentially is doing that. It will
continue for a while longer -- I don't know how many more days -- but
it sounds like and seems like we now have the upper hand and our
troops are mopping up and going through these cave complexes and
looking for soldiers.
MR. SCHIEFFER: So you think this is a mop-up operation that's going on
now?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I think I would characterize it that way. I
can't say that it might not turn back into a battle if they run into a
pocket of resistance, but it is an operation that will continue for
some time. I don't want to give a number of days because I'll leave
that to the Pentagon. But I'm very proud of the way our troops have
handled this. We had some casualties initially; we adjusted quickly
with our Afghan allies.
And by the way, so many other allies were in there with us from a
variety of other nations, all working together, determined to make
sure that al-Qaida does not regenerate inside of Afghanistan and that
the Taliban doesn't regenerate, and that we give the people of
Afghanistan hope for a better future.
MS. BORGER: Well, what about in Pakistan? Can you foresee the US
military going into Pakistan to hunt down -- some people say there
were 5,000 al-Qaida and Taliban in Pakistan.
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know how many al-Qaida or Taliban are in
Pakistan. I don't anticipate troop movements into Pakistan on the part
of the United States armed forces. We do have people in Pakistan
working with Pakistani authorities. President Musharraf has been very
forthcoming, has dedicated some of his troops to this mission as well.
And so I think we have a good relationship with Pakistan and the
Pakistanis are quite capable of controlling their terrain.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Mr. Secretary, does the fact that the President imposed
this tariff on imported steel, has that had any kind of an impact on
the coalition of countries that have come together to fight this war?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, the coalition remains together and remains
strong. Obviously there was some disappointment on the part of some of
our friends with what the President did with steel imports, but the
President had to comply with the law and he believed he had an
obligation under the law to take some actions to give our steel
industry some breathing space for a couple of years in order to make
adjustments that would make it more competitive. And I hope our
friends, even those who are very disappointed by our action, will
understand the necessity for that action.
MS. BORGER: Mr. Secretary, as you know, the Vice President, as you
mentioned, has left for the Middle East today. Doesn't all of this
news coming out of Israel, the news about the Defense Department
report that we were just talking about about nuclear weapons, doesn't
this complicate his trip to a great degree?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, it gives him other things to talk about that
he might not have planned to talk about. But Vice President Cheney
understands these nuclear issues very, very well, having been a former
Secretary of Defense, and he will put it in context and in perspective
so that it is not a disturbing feature of his discussions or his trip.
I think that part will be dealt with.
The violence in the Middle East, the Vice President will talk to this
at every stop. He will consult with all of our moderate Arab friends
and with our friends in Great Britain as well. And I hope that by the
time he gets there General Zinni will have been on the ground for a
few days and will have had an opportunity to see if we can get
something going.
But remember, General Zinni is going not just to talk; he's going to
help the two sides get into the Tenet work plan, something both of
them have agreed to do previously. And the only reason for doing the
Tenet work plan is to get to the Mitchell process. It's a way of
getting into the process so that they can start to have confidence in
one another again. And the only reason for getting into the Mitchell
process is to get to the political solution at the end of it:
negotiations.
MR. SCHIEFFER: What is the first step of the Tenet work plan?
SECRETARY POWELL: The first step is to lay out a series of actions
both sides will take to get the violence under control. And we're even
prepared to send additional American monitors in with General Zinni to
start monitoring actions that the sides are taking - can the two sets
of security forces, on the Israeli side and the Palestinian side,
start working with one another.
But all of this will bear no fruit whatsoever if Chairman Arafat does
not do everything in his power to bring the terrorists under control
and to use his powerful voice as the leader of the Palestinian people
to tell his people this gets us nowhere, this kind of violence, this
kind of terrorism of the kind we have seen in recent days, does
nothing but destroy our vision for a Palestinian state.
MR. SCHIEFFER: Let me just ask you. You said we are willing to send in
more monitors. What does that mean? A large force? How many people?
SECRETARY POWELL: A small -- we haven't decided on a number, but it's
always been there. It is part of the Tenet work plan as our work
progresses, the United States is willing to send in some monitors to
assist in watching the situation and giving some confidence to both
sides and sort of just helping keep the process moving. It's not news.
It's something that was announced last year at the G-8 summit meeting.
MS. BORGER: Are they receptive to this idea?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, these are American monitors initially in some
small number. Maybe it will grow over time. Both sides are receptive.
And of course the Palestinians have always wanted international
monitors to come in, but I think that Prime Minister Sharon is quite
comfortable with some number of American monitors. That's been out
there for some time.
MR. SCHIEFFER: All right. Well, we'll stop there. Thank you so much,
Mr. Secretary, for being with us.
SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Bob, Gloria.
(end transcript)
