03 March 2002
Powell Assesses Foreign Policy Trouble Spots on CNN
(Discusses Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Castro, HIV/AIDS) (3830)
Secretary of State Colin Powell discussed major foreign policy areas
of concern and attention on a Cable News Network broadcast March 2.
Interviewed by CNN's Robert Novak and Al Hunt on March 1 at the State
Department, Secretary Powell said the International Security
Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan "is off to a good start," as is
the interim Karzai regime. He said the security situation there
remains under careful scrutiny, as part of the process of determining
whether to send more ISAF personnel to cities outside of Kabul, the
capital.
Powell also discussed:
-- the scope of the U.S. engagement in the global war on terrorism;
-- the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl;
-- the possible role of international inspectors in Iraq;
-- the current situation in the Middle East;
-- U.S. policy toward North Korea;
-- U.S. public diplomacy efforts in the Middle East;
-- Cuba under dictator Fidel Castro; and
-- U.S. efforts to fight HIV/AIDS.
The text of Powell's interview follows:
(begin transcript)
Interview With Robert Novak and Al Hunt of CNN
Secretary Colin L. Powell Washington, DC March 1, 2002
(Aired 5:30 p.m. EST [10:30 p.m. GMT] March 2, 2002)
MR. NOVAK: I'm Robert Novak. Al Hunt and I are in the Benjamin
Franklin Diplomatic Reception Room in the Harry S Truman State
Department Building to question America's number one diplomat.
MR. HUNT: He is Secretary of State Colin Powell.
MR. HUNT: Mr. Secretary, thank you for having us here.
SECRETARY POWELL: Welcome.
MR. HUNT: In Afghanistan, the Taliban has been toppled, bin Laden is
on the run, but recent events suggest that country may be headed back
to violent chaos. To head off any kind of debilitating anarchy, do you
think right now we should increase the size and scope of the
peacekeeping force in Kabul?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, that's under discussion now with our
colleagues in Europe, with the British and with the Turks. I don't see
an immediate need to increase the size of the ISAF. It's about 4,500
and it has succeeded in restoring calm to Kabul. We're looking at some
of the towns outside of Kabul to see whether there is a need for that
kind of presence.
Yes, there is still some continuing violence in Afghanistan, but it
isn't quite as bad as some reports suggest. We have seen some terrible
incidents such as the incident at the airfield, where the Minister of
Transportation was killed, and a riot at a soccer stadium, and there's
been some warlord disturbances. But we're watching it very carefully.
We still have American presence in various parts of the country, and
we're examining what the needs of the ISAF are for its future
missions.
As you know, the Bonn agreement provided for ISAF to work outside of
Kabul, as well as in Kabul, and we're examining whether or not that
part of the mission should be executed and whether forces should leave
Kabul and go to outer cities in Afghanistan.
MR. HUNT: Mr. Secretary, the Powell Doctrine, in essence, says you go
hard and heavy early. We did that in Bosnia, sent 60,000 peacekeepers
in right away; it worked. We're now down to about 15,000. That's
one-twelfth the size of Afghanistan. Why do we think we have any
chance of a peacekeeping succeeding there with only one-twelfth as
many people as we had in Bosnia?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, it isn't Bosnia, and it's a different
situation, and right now it is not clear that you would need 60,000
peacekeepers to do the mission in Afghanistan. I think the ISAF is off
to a good start. It's only been in existence for less than two months.
And we'll be evaluating, as we get to the end of the British
participation, the British command of ISAF, what is really needed.
But right now I don't think we can declare it anything but a success,
because it has restored calm in Kabul, its first mission, and now
we're reviewing whether it needs to do more outside of Kabul and
whether it needs to increase its size.
MR. HUNT: One more Afghanistan question. The Karzai regime seems a bit
shaky right now. The Northern Alliance has dominated. Thirty-eight
generals have been tapped. None have been Pashtuns, although 40
percent of the country is Pashtun. Is it time to give the Northern
Alliance an ultimatum to share power or else?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I think Mr. Karzai is off to a good start,
and, yes, the Northern Alliance does have quite a bit of participation
in the government. But I think that will adjust over time. We are
interested in seeing a multiethnic government really come into
existence in Kabul, and I think Mr. Karzai has that same goal.
So we'll be watching carefully, working with all of the groups in
Afghanistan, to make sure we get the right kind of government, not
only in the Interim Authority, but when we move to the permanent
government, after the next Loya Jirga. I don't think it's necessary to
start issuing ultimatums to anyone at this time. It's a new situation,
it's just developing, and we'll watch it carefully and give Mr. Karzai
all the help that he needs.
I'm impressed at the great start he has had, both with respect to
international acceptance of his role and position, as well as the very
difficult challenge he is facing in getting up and running. And we're
going to give him all the help that we can, and I think he is off to a
pretty good start. And he is sensitive to the need to have
multiethnicity within the Interim Authority. He's got to work on that,
and we'll help him.
MR. NOVAK: Mr. Secretary, Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, the
president pro tem of the Senate, often speaks his mind. He did this
week, and we'll put it up on the screen. He said, "If we expect to
kill every terrorist in the world, that's going to keep us going
beyond doomsday. How long can we afford this?"
Does he have a point, when the United States is talking about sending
forces to Georgia, to Yemen, to the Philippines? Is that part of the
war on terrorism that we go after every terrorist in the world?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, "every terrorist in the world" is a bit much.
I don't think that's a mission that we have ever placed upon
ourselves. What the President said is we're going to go after those
terrorist organizations that have a global reach and that threaten us
and our friends and allies.
And so far, I think we've done, one, a terrific job in Afghanistan.
We're going to help the Government of Yemen. We're helping the
Government of the Philippines. And we're going to look at other places
where we might be of some assistance; Georgia, for example. We have
sent an assessment team in to work with the Georgians to see how they
can improve their capability to fight terrorists.
And so it's not a question of us sending military units and strength
all over the world. For the most part, these are rather manageable,
small missions that are within the capability of the armed forces to
handle, and don't tie us down around the world for a lifetime of
terrorist-chasing activity.
MR. NOVAK: The Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle was asked if he
agreed with Senator Byrd, and he said absolutely, and then he said the
things that we had at the beginning of this program. Do you believe,
quite frankly, that this kind of criticism from the loyal opposition
undermines the forces that are fighting this war, as it undermined the
forces in Vietnam, where you were a young officer?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, I wouldn't say that with respect to either
Senator Daschle or Senator Byrd. They are raising questions, and I
think that's what a loyal opposition does. That's what we would expect
them to do. And I think these are questions that we can answer. And I
think the American people have a pretty good idea of what we're trying
to do, and that's evidenced in the strong support they have given to
President Bush and his policies.
MR. NOVAK: On the other hand, sir, do you think that the President's
call for attack on the "axis of evil" -- or his concentration on the
"axis of evil," I should say -- which has caused a lot of criticism in
the European community and our allies, has made it more difficult for
you to hold together the global coalition against terrorism?
SECRETARY POWELL: No. There were some reactions to it, but I think now
that we have had a few weeks under our belt, and people realize that
we're not ready to declare a war on anyone, and that we are following
policies that have been in place for a long time -- people knew what
we thought about North Korea, Iraq and Iran all along. By putting them
along this "axis of evil," I think the President reinforced his strong
feelings about these three countries and sort of cleared everybody's
sinuses, if they thought we were going to sort of walk away from the
challenges that these three countries face.
So after a lot of discussion with my European colleagues, and the
President's trip to Asia, I think people understand that this
President is one who acts with patience, with prudence and
decisiveness. And he is not a "hip-shooter," as some people claim.
Quite the contrary. He has strong views, he has principled views, but
he is very prudent and decisive and patient in taking action. He takes
into account all factors, he listens to our allies, he listens to our
friends, and he puts that into his calculation.
MR. HUNT: Mr. Secretary, you have praised Pakistani President
Musharraf for his cooperation since 9/11, most recently during the
ordeal and then brutal murder of our colleague, Danny Pearl.
Are you convinced that there were not elements of the Pakistani
intelligence, the ISI, involved in this dastardly crime?
SECRETARY POWELL: I have no evidence to suggest that ISI was involved.
I can't totally rule out anything, but I have nothing to suggest that
ISI was involved. I spoke to President Musharraf a number of times
during the course of this crisis, and I'm deeply saddened by the loss
of Danny Pearl, and my heart goes out to his wife and his still unborn
child, but I know that President Musharraf did everything he could to
try to find out who was holding Danny Pearl. And so I have seen
nothing to suggest that the Pakistanis were in any way complicit with
this.
MR. NOVAK: Mr. Secretary, as you know, there has been tremendous
speculation that the next step in the war against terrorism is Iraq.
The Iraqis are indicating that perhaps they would be open to returning
UN weapons inspectors. People at the Pentagon said the inspectors
won't find anything now; they've hidden them.
Do you think, at this stage, UN weapons inspectors will do any good in
finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think they would play a very useful role because,
you know, you can have a covert program and you can have an overt
program. And with inspectors in, you certainly can't have an overt
program, so they would have to keep everything underground.
And if the inspectors are good and if they are given the kind of
access we would insist on before they can go back in, they may have
some success at finding the covert program as well. But I have no
illusions about the ability of inspectors to find everything, but I
think they can play a useful role.
In my previous experience with respect to inspections and arms control
regimes, the INF Treaty with the Russians comes to mind -- inspectors
are part of the system that you use to get at a problem like this. So
I certainly share the President's view that the inspectors should go
in and be allowed to do their work without any interference on the
part of the Iraqis.
MR. NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break, and when we come back,
we'll ask the Secretary of State about chances for peace in the Middle
East.
(Commercial Break.)
MR. HUNT: Mr. Secretary, as you know, Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah
floated a proposal to New York Times' Tom Friedman that said if Israel
returns to pre-1967 borders, the Arab states may well recognize
Israel. Critics say there's nothing new in this; it's the same old
Saudi proposal going back to King Faud in 1981.
Do you think it's something new and significant?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, I think it is significant. We've seen similar
proposals so it's not entirely new, but what I think makes it
significant is that it's coming from the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia
at this time. I think Crown Prince Abdullah should be congratulated
and thanked for putting this on the table as a way of breaking through
some of the barriers that we now have toward finding a way into the
Mitchell peace plan. And so I think it's new in that sense.
What is also good is he talked about the normalization of relations
between all of the Arab countries and Israel. And so I think it is
something that is still just a vision, just an idea, and will require
more fleshing out. But coming a month before the Arab summit, and
therefore teeing this idea up for consideration at the Arab summit, I
think was an important step, and we have thanked the Crown Prince for
this. I spoke to him, President Bush spoke to him earlier this week,
and Assistant Secretary Burns just came back from the region after
discussing this matter with the Crown Prince.
MR. HUNT: Just a few days ago, as you know, the Israelis attacked
Palestinian camps, resulting in lots of bloodshed. Do you condemn
those attacks?
SECRETARY POWELL: I just want to see all the attacks stop. I want to
see the violence ended. I want to see terrorist attacks stop. I want
to see the response that the Israelis feel they have to make when
these attacks occur stop. It is absolutely essential that the violence
ends, and only with the ending of violence can we get into the Tenet
work plan and then the Mitchell plan, which leads to what everybody
wants: negotiations on the basis of [U.N. Security Council
Resolutions] 242 and 338, Land-for-Peace, in order to get this thing
settled.
But both sides now have to do everything to apply restraint, to stop
the terror, to stop the daily exchange of fires going back and forth.
And I don't want to condemn anyone right now; I want both sides to
exercise maximum effort, do everything they can to get the violence
ended, or else we're going to get nowhere. People can come out with
new ideas, new peace plans, new initiatives, have conferences, send
emissaries to the region; it will all do no good unless the violence
is brought to an end.
And I have particularly spoken to Mr. Arafat, in the most direct terms
I can, with respect to doing everything he can to bring those
organizations under his control, of those people under his influence,
to the understanding that violence achieves no objective; in fact,
it's destroying the dreams of the Palestinian people.
MR. NOVAK: Mr. Secretary, America's allies in South Korea would like
to see the United States get back to useful negotiations with North
Korea, which is part of the "axis of evil". Do you think there's any
chance of that happening?
SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know. We have said since last summer that we
are anxious to begin discussions with the North Koreans any time, any
place. And we have ways of getting in touch with them. And the
President, in South Korea last week, reinforced that point, embraced
the sunshine policy, the engagement policy of the South Koreans, and
invited the North Koreans to come out.
But he didn't step back from his characterization of that regime
because it's an accurate characterization. They are despotic. They
have destroyed their country. They can't feed their people. They are
developing weapons of mass destruction.
MR. NOVAK: But you can still negotiate with them?
SECRETARY POWELL: We have negotiated with very bad people in the past
and gotten a lot of progress. So we are not looking for a war with
North Korea. Nobody wants a war in the Korean Peninsula. But let's
begin a dialogue to get them out of the dire straits that they are in
and reduce the tension in that part of the world.
MR. HUNT: Mr. Secretary, the Gallup Poll just completed a massive
survey of nine Islamic countries, and the results were stunning. We'll
put them up on the screen for our viewers. But over half of these
Muslims don't believe Arabs played any role in the September 11
attack; a majority view the United States and President Bush
negatively; and only 9 percent say US military action in Afghanistan
is justified.
Doesn't that suggest that American public diplomacy in the Arab world
since 9/11 has been an abject failure?
SECRETARY POWELL: It suggests that we have got a lot of work to do.
It's not just since 9/11. I think that we have not had the right kind
of public diplomacy efforts in that part of the world for a long time,
and one of the major challenges that I have as Secretary of State is
to energize our public diplomacy --
MR. HUNT: Is there any one thing we're going to do to try to turn this
around?
SECRETARY POWELL: We're going to do a lot of things. We're going to do
more broadcasting. We're going to send more people out on to Arab
radio and television. We're going to place more op-ed
[opinion-editorial] pieces. I want more Americans to go overseas and
speak to Arab audiences. I went on MTV and spoke to 346 million
households around the world, young people ages 17 to 25, where I was
asked some of the toughest questions imaginable, and I had the chance
to speak directly to these young people. So we're going to do a much
better job in the future of reaching out to these populations.
To some extent, this attitude that exists in the region is affected by
the crisis between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and we bear some
of the burden of that crisis because people think that we can just
order the Israelis to do what they want the Israelis to do. And it is
not quite that simple.
MR. NOVAK: Mr. Secretary, just briefly before we take another break,
do you believe that there is any chance of democratization and
improvement of human rights in Cuba so long as Fidel Castro remains in
power?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think he has demonstrated over these many, many
years of his rule that he is not interested in human rights and
democratization of the society or opening up the economic system. So
as long as he's there, I doubt that we will see the kinds of
improvements that the Cuban people deserve and which would allow Cuba
to become a democratized nation in this hemisphere.
Thirty-four of the 35 nations are signatories of our Charter of
Democracy and the Responsibilities of a Democracy in this hemisphere.
Only Cuba is left out, and I'm afraid that's going to remain the case
as long as Mr. Castro is there.
MR. NOVAK: We have to take another break, and when we come back we'll
have a big question for Colin Powell.
(Commercial.)
MR. NOVAK: Now a big question for Secretary of State Colin Powell. Mr.
Secretary, many people who do admire you otherwise were a little
shocked when, on your MTV interview, you suggested that conservative
-- small "c" -- values should not be taught. You seemed to reiterate
that on Meet the Press. I wonder if you would like to clarify whether
you think that American parents should not teach conservative values
to their children.
SECRETARY POWELL: Sure they should. I think that American parents
should teach their youngsters to refrain from sexual activities until
they're old enough to understand what they are getting into,
preferably within the bond of marriage. Alma and I, my wife and I, are
very deeply involved in abstinence programs and have supported a
number of them.
But, at the same time, young people have hormonal drives that will
cause them to say, "Well, thank you for all of that lecturing, but I'm
going to participate in sexual activities." And I think it is our
responsibility to let them know what precautions they should take and
how they should protect themselves from the kinds of diseases that are
out there waiting.
So I, at the same time, have said the use of condoms is a wise thing.
And, in fact, the United States Government has that as our policy. We
buy hundreds of millions of condoms and ship them overseas to help
stop the plague that is affecting the whole world, that plague called
HIV/AIDS.
And I think small "c" conservative in the context of my interview had
to do with taboos and shibboleths, and let's not talk about this; not
political "c" but conservative "c" in the sense that we're not going
to educate our kids. That, I think, is the wrong approach. Educate
your kids for the full range of experiences they may be getting ready
to participate in.
MR. HUNT: Mr. Secretary, we only have about 20 seconds left, but you
have a genuine commitment to doing something about the worldwide AIDS
plague. Kofi Annan says we need $10 billion in the UN fund, and yet
the Bush budget only proposes $200 million.
When are our resources going to match our rhetoric?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, in the last year, it's really $500 million,
$200 million last year and Congress added $100 million, another $200
million next year. That's $500 million. But we have hundreds of
millions of dollars, billions of dollars, in research and development
and other activities directed toward HIV/AIDS. There's $500 million
for the trust fund, and I hope it will be more, but I think we're off
to a good start with that trust fund.
MR. HUNT: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much. Robert Novak and I will
be back with a comment or two in just a moment.
[End]
Released on March 2, 2002
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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