10 January 2002
Transcript: Powell Says Hunt for Terrorists to Continue
(Says countries that harbor terrorists "have to be on guard") (3550)
The United States will continue hunting down terrorists, but has not
yet determined the next phase in the war against terrorism after
Afghanistan, Secretary of State Colin Powell said January 9.
"[T]he fact of the matter is we are still studying it and the
President's advisors have not made a recommendation to him, and he has
not yet made a decision," Powell said.
"The one thing we are going to go after are terrorists, and those
countries that provide a haven for terrorists have to be on guard," he
said.
In an interview with the London-based Middle East Broadcasting Centre,
a leading pan-Arab satellite network, Powell was asked if Somalia and
Iraq are the likely next targets. He downplayed the reference to
Somalia, noting that, "we do not mean ill to Somalia or the people of
Somalia." But he said the United States is cautioning Somali leaders
against allowing their country to become a haven for terrorists.
As for Iraq, Powell repeated the U.S. misgivings about Saddam
Hussein's weapons of mass destruction program. He called upon the
Iraqi leader to allow U.N. weapons inspectors back into the country to
verify that Iraq is not producing or storing weapons of mass
destruction.
"Let the inspectors in. Prove to the world, as you have said, Mr.
Saddam Hussein, that you are not developing such weapons. And the
United Nations will come in and look and see whether this is true or
not. Why won't he let them in? Why does he keep his people under such
conditions of deprivation because he is trying to develop these
weapons that will destroy innocent people? The whole world should
unify. All the people in the region should not find this regime and
this man characterized as heroes. They are not heroes. He is a despot
and it is a despotic regime," said Powell.
The United Nations is planning to revamp its sanctions on Iraq in a
way that allows civilian goods to flow freely into Iraq while blocking
the entry of goods that Iraq could use to manufacture weapons of mass
destruction.
The Secretary also addressed Arab perceptions that U.S. policy and
public statements on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were biased
towards Israel, saying that the Bush Administration criticized and
encouraged both sides in an even-handed manner.
"The reason I believe that this administration and I have been
reasonably successful is that I am usually being criticized from both
sides on any one day of the week. And so I will rest my case on that
proposition," said Powell.
Powell repeated his vision of a Palestinian state existing peacefully
with Israel, articulated in November 2001 by himself and by President
Bush. However, he added that, "the only way to get toward this vision
is to end the violence."
The Secretary also said the nations of the Middle East need to pay
attention to the openness being demanded of them by their young
people.
"As young people are exposed to the Internet, are exposed to
television, and they understand what openness is within the society
and the opportunity that might exist for you, whether you are a man or
a woman, then I think all countries are going to be under pressure to
respond to these tensions within their society and the expectations of
their young people. And each one of those countries will have to
respond in their own way, consistent with their culture, their
history, their tradition and their religion," said Powell.
Powell also repeated the U.S. position that the campaign against
terrorism is not aimed at any religion, and he praised Egypt and Saudi
Arabia for their cooperation in the campaign against terrorism.
Following is a transcript of Secretary Powell's January 9 interview
with Hisham Melham of the Middle East Broadcasting Centre:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
January 9, 2002
INTERVIEW
Secretary Of State Colin L. Powell
By Hisham Melham of Middle East Broadcasting Centre
January 9, 2002
2:00 p.m. EST
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, we really appreciate this opportunity. Sir,
the war is proceeding very well apparently in Afghanistan,
notwithstanding the fact that you don't -- we don't have Mullah Omar
or Usama bin Laden. But let me ask you about the other war, the public
diplomacy war. You have focused on it a lot and you know that you are
dealing with a skeptical audience, let's say, in the Arab and the
Muslim world.
Now that victory is close to being achieved, will victory speak for
itself, or would you continue public diplomacy as a long-term
political investment in that part of the world?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, we will continue with public diplomacy as a
long-term investment, and not as a political investment, but because
we believe that the audiences we are trying to reach to can benefit
from knowing more about America, about America's values and what we
are trying to accomplish.
This is not a campaign that we are fighting against any religion; it's
against criminals, it's against terrorism. What we are doing in
Afghanistan is against terrorists. Even though we haven't caught
Mullah Omar or Usama bin Laden, we have essentially defeated the
Taliban and we have made it much, much more difficult for al-Qaida to
do anything in Afghanistan.
But al-Qaida is elsewhere in the world. We have to go after them, not
just because they are a threat to America. Because they are a threat
to civilization. They are a threat to all of us who believe in peace
and freedom. All of us suffer from terrorism in one form or another in
every country, to include the country and the region that you cover.
And so I think it is the reason that the international coalition has
come together -- and all nations, nations in the West, nations in
Europe, nations in the Middle East -- nations all over the world are
coming together to go after this form of criminality in the world.
QUESTION: Sir, September 11th and the aftermath showed that there is,
unfortunately, a huge gap sometimes in terms of perceptions and
understanding between the Arab Muslim world and sometimes in the West,
in the United States. That is true on the part of officialdom as well
as in the media in that part of the world.
And recently we have seen your friends in Egypt and Saudi Arabia
complaining because what they term as "media campaign" that was based
on some leaks from government sources. Notwithstanding your
assurances, is it fair to say that since September 11th a pall has
been cast on this special relationship that exists between the United
States and Saudi Arabia and Egypt?
SECRETARY POWELL: Not from my standpoint. No pall has been cast on our
relationship with Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Both of these countries have
done a splendid job in responding to the events of September 11th, and
we are in very close touch with the leaders in both countries.
Now, we have a free press and they write about many things. You, I
have noticed also, have a free press in your part of the world. And
this is one of the things that comes along with the free press. There
will be criticism. The fact that so much attention has now been
directed on that part of that world when a number of the individuals
came from Saudi Arabia, then a certain amount of attention should be
expected.
But I can say that when you wade through all of the comments and
criticism and the good statements that have been made and the bad
statements that have been made, I know for a fact, and President Bush
knows for a fact, that the Egyptian Government and the Saudi
Government and their leaders have been strong supporters of our
efforts, and the United States and the American people are deeply
appreciative of their efforts.
QUESTION: Let me say that many of the criticism, by the way, in the
United States is justified in the media, but that's not what you're
saying. I'm saying. But, I mean, some people are saying that maybe
that other changes should take place, even in the educational
curricula in some of these schools, because now it's impacting not
only on domestic issues but on international issues. I mean --
SECRETARY POWELL: I think this is a real issue for the countries in
the region. As we go into the 21st century, every country in the
world, but particularly countries in that part of the world, have to
take a look as to how they are preparing their young people for the
demands of the future.
And as young people are exposed to the Internet, are exposed to
television, and they understand what openness is within the society
and the opportunity that might exist for you, whether you are a man or
a woman, then I think all countries are going to be under pressure to
respond to these tensions within their society and the expectations of
their young people. And each one of those countries will have to
respond in their own way, consistent with their culture, their
history, their tradition and their religion.
QUESTION: Sir, let me ask you about the next phase. There is a good
deal of discussion that you and other senior officials are
participating in as to where we go in the war against terrorism. You
spoke recently about Somalia. Iraq has been prominent.
How prominent is Iraq, and how close are you to making a decision? I
mean, you keep saying that we're still studying it. I don't mean to
sound that everyone is acting like a Hamlet here, but talk a little
bit about that next phase.
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, the fact of the matter is we are still
studying it and the President's advisors have not made a
recommendation to him, and he has not yet made a decision.
The one thing we are going to go after are terrorists, and those
countries that provide a haven for terrorists have to be on guard. But
we have not selected any country and we are not trying to pick on
countries; we're trying to pick on terrorists. And we hope that as we
go forward with this campaign, people will understand that we do not
mean ill to Somalia or the people of Somalia.
But what we're saying to the authorities in Somalia, where there is
not much authority, is that you should not let your country become a
haven for terrorists who will use your country as a place to launch
criminal actions against other nations. That isn't acceptable any
longer. It's not just by the United States, but by the international
community. With respect to Iraq, we have expressed our concern about
this regime for many years. They are developing weapons of mass
destruction. They have been state sponsors of terrorism. And these
weapons of mass destruction, they are a great danger to the nations in
the region. They are a great danger to the neighbors to Iraq, less so
to the United States. And it seems to me that every nation in that
part of the world should be deeply concerned that a nation such as
Iraq, which is under UN sanctions, continues to test those sanctions
and violate those sanctions to develop weapons that could well be used
against their own neighbors, not against the United States.
QUESTION: I mean, you're right. I mean, Saddam used them against his
own people and against the Iranians.
SECRETARY POWELL: Exactly.
QUESTION: And yet you still have this apprehension in the region about
taking on Iraq militarily. If Saddam refuses the new restructured
sanctions, the so-called smart sanctions, and refuses to allow the
inspectors back in, will Iraq be exposing itself to military
punishment?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I would not make a statement now as to what
might happen in the future. The smart sanctions that I had been
pushing -- and I think will come into effect later this year -- were
for the purpose of easing the suffering of the people of Iraq and not
letting us be blamed for any suffering that they may be undergoing.
The responsibility for such suffering is Saddam Hussein and his
regime, who denies his people the opportunity to live a better life.
The smart sanctions will point this out more clearly. That's why he
doesn't like them. He doesn't want it pointed out so clearly that he
is responsible.
And there is a way to deal with this. Let the inspectors in. Prove to
the world, as you have said, Mr. Saddam Hussein, that you are not
developing such weapons. And the United Nations will come in and look
and see whether this is true or not. Why won't he let them in? Why
does he keep his people under such conditions of deprivation because
he is trying to develop these weapons that will destroy innocent
people? The whole world should unify. All the people in the region
should not find this regime and this man characterized as heroes. They
are not heroes. He is a despot and it is a despotic regime.
QUESTION: We don't have enough time. Let me jump to the Arab-Israeli
arena. Sir, you seem essentially in your previous pronouncements and
interviews to be coming closer to the Israeli version of what happened
to the arms shipment that was intercepted. What can you tell us? What
is the latest on this? Was this shipment going to the Palestinians?
Was it going to Hezbollah? I mean, what is the latest based on your
intelligence and your investigation?
SECRETARY POWELL: Based on the information that I have and the
intelligence we have received, and more information that is being
provided by the Israeli Government, it is a very serious situation. It
is an escalatory situation. When you see the weapons that were being
brought in, this would have taken us to a new level of violence.
I think that Chairman Arafat has to give full explanations as to what
role might have been played by Palestinians in this, members of his
Authority or other Palestinian groups.
QUESTION: He denied that the PA is responsible.
SECRETARY POWELL: I know. I have spoken to him, and he denies it. And
I said, "Thank you for telling me of that denial, but more evidence
will be forthcoming." And I encouraged the Chairman to do everything
he could to look into these matters, that this was a very serious
matter. The allegations are quite serious and more evidence will be
forthcoming. And he needs to deal with this evidence as it comes
forward because the whole world is going to be watching. Where did
these weapons come from? And it appears they came from -- Iran
certainly looks like a distinct possibility. Exactly where were they
going, and for what purpose?
The only thing I can be sure of is the purpose was not good. The
purpose was clearly to raise the level of violence in the region.
QUESTION: But I understand from what you're saying that you're
implying that the weapons were going to a Palestinian party, and not
necessarily to another party.
SECRETARY POWELL: It seems clear to me that they were going into the
region. I can't tell you to whom exactly. I can't tell you to where
because they didn't get there, thank heavens. Through an act of
considerable skill, the Israelis intercepted it. But there will be
information coming out as to where it originated from and where it was
going and who might have been responsible. And as that information
comes out, the United States and the international community can make
a judgment. But right now, I think a heavy burden rests on Mr. Arafat
to deal with these charges and to deal with the evidence as it comes
forward.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, notwithstanding your positive image of the
future Middle East that you articulated at Louisville, and the
President also spoke of a Palestinian state and all that, there is a
lingering feeling in the region, even among your friends, that the
United States has been very soft on the Sharon government -- on the
incursions, on the use of US weapons, on settlement activities -- and
that you are not balancing your criticism of Arafat and the PA, and
definitely the Hamas and the others, with criticism of what appears to
be clear Israeli violations of human rights that are perceived as such
by Europeans and many of your friends.
SECRETARY POWELL: I think the speech that I gave in Louisville was a
comprehensive statement of our position on all of these issues, and we
have spoken out against settlement activity. We have made it clear
that we have a vision of a Palestinian state that will live side by
side in peace with Israel. And so I think we have spoken out.
But the only way to get toward this vision is to end the violence, and
when you have organizations like Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic
Jihad, organizations like that that simply reject the existence of the
State of Israel and will continue to use violence against that state,
that kind of activity must be stopped or the vision that I have, the
vision that President Bush has, the vision that Chairman Arafat has
and the vision that Prime Minister Sharon has, will never be reached
-- two states living side by side in peace. I will not lose sight of
that vision. I will continue to work for that vision and I will
continue to work with both sides and do everything I can with both
sides to bring them into the Mitchell plan so we can start to march
toward that vision on the basis of UN Resolutions 242 and 338.
QUESTION: I know they are harassing us to finish, but let me just beg
you for one final question. How come the United States doesn't speak
our forcefully when Palestinian peace activists like Sari Nusseibeh --
many of your friends here know him -- Marwan Barghouti and all these
people, who are fighting for peace peacefully, along sometimes with
Israelis -- when they are incarcerated or roughed up or mistreated by
the Israelis.
I mean, what kind of message the United States is sending to those who
are seeking peace peacefully on the Arab side when people say, "Look,
they condemned Hamas and violence, but also they are not defending
those who share basically in the same principles that the Americans
share?"
SECRETARY POWELL: I have tried to approach this in a very balanced way
and to speak to both sides and to suggest to both sides that
moderation should always be our first choice with respect to actions
that we take. I have spoken to the Israeli side about some of the
actions they have taken that we have disapproved of, such as
assassinations, and I think we have been even-handed in this.
And the reason I believe that this administration and I have been
reasonably successful is that I am usually being criticized from both
sides on any one day of the week. And so I will rest my case on that
proposition.
QUESTION: So you must be doing a good job, huh?
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I don't know about that. I just know that I do
the best we can in trying to bring both sides to the table so that we
can get a cease-fire in place, and then move through the
confidence-building measures of the Mitchell plan in order to begin
peace discussions. My hope is peace, and I will work with both sides.
I will encourage both sides, and from time to time I will criticize
both sides, as appropriate, in my desire to see this peace achieved.
QUESTION: I wanted to ask you about Hezbollah. I don't know if you can
-- is there something I can just drag it a little bit? The Syrians and
the Lebanese -- you have been in contact with them on Hezbollah and
there is a conceptual problem. They say this is a resistance movement;
you say it's a terrorist movement.
What are your expectations from the Lebanese Government on Hezbollah?
Do you want them to disarm them? Do you want them to contain them? I
mean --
SECRETARY POWELL: Hezbollah has claimed from time to time they are a
political movement. Political movements do not -- legitimate political
movements do not resort to terror. They do not resort to the killing
of innocent citizens as a political means, a satisfactory political
means in the 21st century.
And I think that all parties in the region will be well advised to
control organizations such as Hezbollah and all the others who have
not yet renounced terror and violence against innocent civilians as a
means to a political objective. It's no longer acceptable in the 21st
century. That is the great lesson out of the events of the 11th of
September. We have to speak out against this kind of activity, all of
us, and take action against this kind of activity.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, we appreciate it. Thanks again.
SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you.
2:20 p.m. EST
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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