20 December 2001
Transcript: Defense Department Briefing, December 19, 2001
(Rumsfeld/meeting in Central Asia & NATO, ABM Treaty/Putin statement,
Terrorism/al-Qaida, Afghanistan/hunt for al-Qaida, Pakistan/assistance
to coalition, bin Laden/whereabouts, Yemen/al-Qaida, NATO/Somalia,
U.S. military/transformation, U.S. military/homeland defense,
NATO/Iraq, Pakistan/prisoners, Afghanistan/international security
force, Kandahar/detainees) (5450)
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who had just returned to
Washington from NATO headquarters in Brussels and a trip to
Afghanistan just prior to that, briefed reporters at the Pentagon
December 19.
Following is the Pentagon transcript:
(begin transcript)
United States Department of Defense
NEWS TRANSCRIPT
Presenter: Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2001 - 3:30 p.m. EST
DoD News Briefing - Secretary Rumsfeld
Rumsfeld: I do not see a single soul who was on the plane with me.
Q: They're waiting for their bags -- waiting for their bags.
Rumsfeld: Is that right?
Q: (off mike)
Rumsfeld: (laughs)
We have just returned, and we had meetings, as you know, in Central
Asia and then at NATO, where we met with the allied defense ministers.
I expressed our country's appreciation for their support in the war on
terrorism and discussed the challenges that would be facing us all in
the weeks and months ahead.
I explained that the effort in Afghanistan is certainly far from over.
There are still pockets of resistance in the country, and President
Bush intends to see the campaign in Afghanistan through until Taliban
and al Qaeda leadership have either been captured or killed.
The Afghanistan campaign, of course, is not the only terrorist problem
in the world. There are other terrorist networks that threaten us and
threaten our friends. They operate in dozens of countries, and we are
fully intending to stay after the problem of all terrorists that have
global reach.
We discussed the emerging threats at NATO, those that are facing us in
the 21st century, and ways to strengthen the alliance to meet them by
improving allied capabilities. And that calls for increasing defense
budgets in the NATO nations, bringing in new numbers -- members, which
of course is going to be considered at the Prague summit, and in
reducing troop commitments in old missions as we're able to and as we
take on new missions with respect to the war on terrorism.
As to the ABM Treaty, in the final communiqué, the allies took note of
President Putin's statement that U.S. withdrawal in no way threatened
Russia.
In Afghanistan, I met with the interim prime minister, Mr. Karzai, and
the interim defense minister, Fahim Khan. I assured them of our
commitment to hunt down the al Qaeda and Taliban leadership, so that
they can no longer destabilize Afghanistan and repress the people of
Afghanistan, and our commitment to help the new government of
Afghanistan as it seeks to bring peace and stability to that country,
so that it does not once again become a haven for terrorists and
terrorist training camps.
Walking away, the most special part of the trip was the chance to
spend time with the men and women in the armed services in the region
and in Afghanistan. They are brave and talented and well trained and
dedicated. They're really doing a terrific job for the country. Gosh,
I -- we think we saw them in two countries, and had a chance to visit
with them, to wish them Merry Christmas. They represented several
services; indeed, they represented several countries. So it was a --
clearly the highlight of our trip for everyone that was there.
Questions? Yes?
Q: Sir, you've said many times that al Qaeda cells operate in 50 or 60
countries around the world, but can you say now that al Qaeda is
finished as a terrorist organization --
Rumsfeld: Oh, absolutely --
Q: -- in Afghanistan itself?
Rumsfeld: Oh, no.
Q: What's left to be done against al Qaeda in Afghanistan?
Rumsfeld: Well, we don't know for sure. We -- until the pockets of
resistance are worked through -- and the odds are that most of those
pockets include al Qaeda, if not exclusively, at least in large part.
We suspect that some al Qaeda have gone across borders, which means
that, in answer to your question about Afghanistan, they're -- if they
can go one way, they can come back the other way. And I would think
that it would be a mistake to say that the al Qaeda is finished in
Afghanistan at this stage. They certainly aren't functioning well.
They're running and they're hiding and they're having difficulty
communicating with each other. But a large number of them seem to
behave in a fanatical way, and I suspect that we'll hear more of them.
Q: Have the U.S. forces expanded the search for them into Pakistan on
the ground or in the air?
Rumsfeld: The -- well, clearly we have sensors in the air that are
looking and trying to see what's taking place.
The Pakistani army is doing a good job along the border of
Afghanistan. They have captured a very large number -- hundreds -- of
people who were fleeing over the border. And we have people that are
communicating with them and doing everything humanly possible to avoid
having the people that we're pressing in Afghanistan from moving into
neighboring countries, where they could cause damage and terrorist
acts there. Our goal is to stop them, not to simply move the problem
from one nation to another.
Yes?
Q: Mr. Secretary, there was a report earlier this week that five
senior Taliban officials had made it into Pakistan, including the
defense minister, interior minister, deputy foreign minister, and a
couple of top commanders. Do you have any sense that that's true? And
if not, do you know whether --
Rumsfeld: I've not heard that report.
Q: Do you have any sense where some of those top --
Rumsfeld: We do have a sense where some of those folks are. We've got
some of them. Some other folks have some of them. Some of them are
dead, and a lot of them are missing.
Q: And you have some in hand?
Rumsfeld: And the latter category's larger than the former.
Q: Are you saying you have some of the top people in hand?
Rumsfeld: Mm-hmm. (affirmative)
Q: Mr. Secretary, when you said your goal is to stop the fleeing al
Qaeda people, not to just let them flee to Pakistan --
Rumsfeld: Exactly.
Q: -- have any actually been engaged on the ground or from the air in
the last day or two?
Rumsfeld: Oh, yes. There have been people who have been engaged in the
last two days.
Q: In what fashion?
Rumsfeld: Well, I don't know quite what "engaged" means, but the -- in
Afghanistan the -- what we used to call the opposition forces -- and
now we're going to start, today, calling them the anti-Taliban forces,
which I think probably is a better characterization -- are putting
pressure on them. And as they move, there's periodic engagements.
There is practically no air bombardment today, although there are
aircraft up providing intelligence. But as I indicated, when they go
across the border, they're being rounded up to the extent they can be
found. I'm sure not all are being rounded up, but large numbers,
hundreds, are being rounded up.
Q: Mr. Secretary, can you just clarify that point -- the U.S. role
inside of Pakistan? Are you saying that Special Forces, that our own
troops are involved in rounding up al Qaeda --
Rumsfeld: I didn't say.
Q: I'm just asking --
Rumsfeld: Oh.
Q: -- if they are involved in rounding up al Qaeda that may cross the
border into Pakistan.
Rumsfeld: Well, let's put it this way. There are something like, the
last time I looked, seven battalions of Pakistani army officials along
that border who are doing that job.
Q: Mr. Secretary?
Rumsfeld: And I don't characterize what countries do beyond that,
other than what they've announced.
Q: So if the U.S. military identifies al Qaeda in Pakistan, through
our intelligence or through troops on either side, what is our role in
capturing that al Qaeda cell?
Rumsfeld: Well, clearly the Pakistan army would do all the heavy
lifting.
Q: Mr. Secretary?
Rumsfeld: Yes?
Q: Mr. Secretary, what assurances do you have from Mr. Karzai or from
other Afghan leaders, leaders of militias or anti-Taliban forces, that
they will stick with the U.S. in going after al Qaeda and the Taliban?
Rumsfeld: Well, I mean, I just sat down with the interim leader of
Afghanistan, and he looked me in the eye and told me so.
Q: Okay. And the other militias around the country? Do you have
assurances from some of them, too?
Rumsfeld: Well, look. We intend to find as many of those people as we
can. Everyone in that country knows that. We have told every one of
the anti-Taliban forces. We have told the interim government. We are
there, we are doing that, we are pressing. And I can't believe anyone
doesn't -- isn't aware of that being our intention, nor has anyone
indicated to me that they are opposed to that.
Q: Well, what I'm trying to get at is whether you can rely on their
ground troops to do the dirty work.
Rumsfeld: Well, you may have to provide incentives, as we do.
Q: Mr. Secretary?
Q: What are the incentives?
Rumsfeld: Well, what we've been doing all along. We've been providing
the anti-Taliban forces ammunition, in some cases weapons, in some
cases food, in some cases medicine, in some cases winter clothing and
blankets and money, and we have provided air cover for them. We have
worked with them with respect to the formation of the new government.
It isn't something -- we have to remember this. This is not -- this is
a relationship, and it's multiple relationships. And it isn't
something where someone says do this, or don't do that, or I will do
this, or I won't do that. It is a discussion. They are not our forces,
where someone says, "Go do this," and they go do it. This is a
relationship.
So I met with Fahim Khan, the acting -- correction, the interim
defense minister of Afghanistan and we discussed these things. Mr.
Karzai and I discussed them.
You say, "Can you count on them?" You know -- it's a relationship. You
work together. You work things out. And it's been very amicable.
They're enormously appreciative, as are the people of Afghanistan, for
being freed of the Taliban and the al Qaeda, and -- so there's this
enormous relief in that country that those people are no longer
governing, if that's what one wants to call it. "Repressing" might be
a better word.
They also are fully aware that the United States of America is not
seeking their real estate. We don't intend to try to occupy their
country. We don't covet anything they have. We're helping. We're
providing assistance. And we're anxious to see them succeed. So it's
not like we have any interest other than stopping people from killing
Americans and blowing up buildings and driving airplanes into the
Pentagon.
Yes.
Q: Mr. Secretary, you said your goal is to stop al Qaeda and the
Taliban -- not to shift the problem to another country.
Rumsfeld: Right.
Q: It appears -- especially in the Tora Bora region, but also in the
border that is next to Kandahar -- that that is exactly what is
happening -- that as they flee, some are being caught, but this body
of people that have been radical and wanting to destroy parts of the
United States have, in fact, gotten across the border and are bringing
this plague onto another country, and to spread it out.
Rumsfeld: I think not so.
Q: No?
Rumsfeld: No. I think what's happened, basically, is that we have 100
percent of the problem people, and that exactly what I've said has
happened. Some have been killed -- not a trivial number -- a lot.
Second, some have switched sides and joined the anti-Taliban -- that
some of the Taliban fighters have now become anti-Taliban. Third, some
have just gone home, dropped their weapons -- these are Afghans -- and
they've gone back to their villages and said, "To heck with it. I'm
not going to do anything." Some have just drifted away in the
mountains and into the villages, and maybe they're laying in wait. And
maybe they're going to cause mischief later. Maybe they still like the
Taliban.
The al Qaeda do not drift into the villages, particularly. They're
still in some pockets. They're still fighting, in some cases. Some
have gotten across borders. A lot have been killed. A good number has
been captured most recently. And they are dangerous and armed and have
more difficulty blending into the Afghan villages or mountains,
because, in many cases, they don't know the language; in many cases,
they just don't fit in; and, in many cases, they're not wanted.
Now, so it's all of those things that are happening. And we intend to
pursue the al Qaeda who do leave the country and try to find them and
try to stop them.
Q: And in the midst of all of this, Osama bin Laden appears to have
vanished.
Rumsfeld: I don't know that. I don't think he's vanished.
Q: Well, he's certainly not in your hands --
Rumsfeld: He's either dug in some tunnel, or he's alive. And if he's
alive, he's either in Afghanistan or he isn't. And it does not matter,
we'll find him one day. And we'll know what's happened.
Q: Mr. Secretary --
Rumsfeld: And he is not the problem, the entire problem. The al Qaeda
is the entire problem. And the other terrorist networks are the
problem. So he is important. We're after him. We intend to find him. I
believe we will. But we haven't.
Q: And if he turns up somewhere thumbing his nose at you --
Rumsfeld: We will go see about that thumb. (laughter)
Q: Mr. Secretary?
Rumsfeld: Yes.
Q: Can you tell us what role the United States might be having in
advising or aiding the Yemeni attacks on al Qaeda right now, and
anything on what you may have told NATO officials about Somalia?
Rumsfeld: Oh, I saw a funny report about some German saying something?
Q: Yes.
Rumsfeld: Nonsense. I said in NATO what I always say. I said that
there are a well-known number of nations on the terrorist list. And I
listed them. And that there are a number of those nations that are
active developing weapons of mass destruction -- either have them or
are trying to get them, and that it's that nexus that is worrisome to
us. And the only time the word "Somalia" came up was at that moment,
and whoever is saying something to the contrary obviously is getting
it third-hand and is -- when he discovers how wrong he or she is he'll
probably feel badly.
Q: Mr. Secretary --
Q: Wait. What about the other one? That is going on.
Rumsfeld: I mean the real -- no. Oh, good. (light laughter) I've got
to be more serious.
Yemen. Osama bin Laden grew up near the border of Yemen. There's a
portion of Yemen that the government of Yemen has difficulties with.
This is true of a number of countries in the world, where there are
sections, and -- it's true in Colombia, it's true up in the northern
part of Georgia, near Chechnya. Obviously the Philippines has some
areas that aren't governable, if you will. They're not being governed.
Yemen has a strip along the Saudi border that has that problem. And it
has been known to be a haven for terrorists, and, I suppose, criminals
and various types of bad people, including al Qaeda.
We have made it very clear, from -- for a period of months, that if
these people go somewhere else, we'll go find them. Therefore, if I
were involved in a country that was a likely prospect for their next
home -- and certainly that area is familiar to the al Qaeda, as
they've lived in Somalia, they've been in Sudan; there are other
places that they might logically go -- I would want to try to clean
out that crowd, too. And apparently that's what happened.
Q: But is the United States actively participating in the Yemeni
operation right now?
Rumsfeld: No, not really. You know, I hate to say something like that,
and then I'm going to find out somebody trained somebody or somebody
gave some intelligence or somebody encouraged somebody to do
something. But if you're saying are we in their rooting around at the
moment, no.
Q: Mr. Secretary, I wanted to hear your reaction to an FBI official's
characterization yesterday of al Qaeda after the Afghan strikes. This
is from J.T. Caruso. He's the acting assistant director for terrorism
for the FBI. He told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that even
with the elimination of Afghanistan as an al Qaeda base, that would
reduce their capability to, quote, "commit horrific acts," end quote,
by about 30 percent, quote, "leaving about 70 percent of their
capabilities to commit horrific acts intact."
Would you agree with that characterization? That seems like quite a
lot remaining --
Rumsfeld: Well, I just would have enormous admiration for someone who
could reach that kind of mathematical precision. I'm not capable of
that.
What I do know is that as I've said from the beginning, you could have
Osama bin Laden walk in here this minute and turn himself in and say
he's sorry, and the al Qaeda network would exist. It has businesses
across the globe. It has sleepers in various countries. It has cells.
It has money. It has communication capability. And it has, I'm going
to guess, one or two handfuls of people who are perfectly capable of
continuing to operate that network. So if that's roughly what he said,
then we roughly agree.
Q: I think his point was that most of al Qaeda's capability is not --
it was not resident in Afghanistan; it was around the rest of the
world and --
Rumsfeld: Well, if you're in 40 or -- 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 countries,
you're all over the world.
Q: Mr. Secretary, before you were so rudely interrupted by bin Laden,
you were in the midst of restructuring the American military. On the
basis of the --
Rumsfeld: No, trying to.
Q: Trying to, yes. (laughter) In the light of the Afghanistan
experience, in your own personal view, have you drawn any conclusions,
convictions about what you should and should not do on an accelerated
basis? In other words, can you give us kind of a lessons learned that
have come to you by -- (inaudible)?
Rumsfeld: Let me say two things. First, I'm not ready to give lessons
learned. We're thinking about it. We have people working on it, and we
will clearly learn some things that we did well and some things that
we'd like to be able to do better and some things that we ought to
have that we don't have. And that will go forward as it does after
every conflict, and the process is now underway.
Does that --
Q: Well, I just wondered if you think we have to do more on Special
Operations, whether you have to get the army lighter, faster. I mean,
some of the --
Rumsfeld: Yeah. Let me give you a general answer on that. There are
some who say -- to use the passive voice, which I find offensive
sometimes -- that when you're in a war, by golly, it's not time to do
anything else. You better not worry about that. Just get on with your
job.
I don't agree with that. I think that, by golly, we have to go forward
with transformation. It's important. The Quadrennial Defense Review is
a good piece of work. It has got a lot of things that need to be done
and need to be implemented. And if anything, the fact that we're in
this conflict and we're seeing what we're seeing, I would think it
would add a sense of impetus and urgency to it. And so what we're
doing is we are looking at the '03 budget build during this period,
and while we had fiscal guidance and we had Defense planning guidance
that flowed from the Quadrennial Defense Review and the Nuclear
Posture Review, we are taking a quick look in the last three weeks to
see, are there things that we ought to tweak in some way and
accelerate? And we are doing that to some things.
Q: Just a quickie. It's not -- in your view it's not a one-of-a-kind
war? It's something that's going affect your --
Rumsfeld: There are some things that are going to affect us, but there
is -- it is hard for me to imagine another Afghanistan. Just from --
if you think about that situation, it is kind of distinctive. Now it
doesn't mean that some of the things that are working there won't work
elsewhere, but the totality of it is distinctive.
I mean, it -- look where it is geographically, and look at the
circumstance, and -- it is -- I don't think we're going to run around
with a cookie mold and repeat this.
(cross talk)
Q: Mr. Secretary, can I follow that up? Can I follow that up? Can I
follow that?
Rumsfeld: Sure.
Q: Could you tell us what's the reason, then, for the delay in the
decision-making about the permanent structure of your homeland defense
set-up, Joint Forces Command versus --
Rumsfeld: I've been busy. I've been busy.
Q: Okay. That's it?
Rumsfeld: And I've been using my brain and knowing that there's a lot
I don't know. So I've been asking the opinions of others. And for
whatever reason, the people I've asked have been busy. And they've
been somewhat slow getting back to me. And --
Q: When do you expect that will be settled?
Rumsfeld: Well, they've come back twice, and I've felt unfulfilled. So
they're coming back again. And when that will be I don't know. I've
been out of town for a few days and a long weekend.
Q: (off mike) -- not fulfilling about their response --
Rumsfeld: Well, I didn't feel that I had all the answers to all the
questions that leapt to mind. And I suspect the next time they come
back they'll have a lot more answers and I'll feel better about it
all.
Pam.
Q: Could you explain what's going on in Tora Bora? The impression that
I have from local news coverage there is that many of the Afghan
fighters have gone back to their villages and that the force is
greatly reduced, yet the danger is very high because they're doing the
hardest part: cave to cave searches. So can you give us some sense of
how large that force is now that's doing it and what percentage of it
is U.S.? And can you also tell us a little bit more about the three
Afghans that are in the -- on the USS Peleliu? I meant the three
non-Afghans that are on the -- the three Westerners -- the
non-Westerners. You know what I'm saying. (laughter)
Q: (off mike) -- what she means --
Q: I'm not the Australian.
Q: -- what she's trying to say.
Rumsfeld: I do know what you mean!
Q: Yeah.
Rumsfeld: I could but I'm not going to.
Q: Okay. On Tora Bora.
Rumsfeld: The three are there.
And on Tora Bora, let me put it this way. I am a little out of date
because I've been on an airplane and I've only had one phone
conversation with General Franks during the period since I left NATO.
You're correct that people in those anti-Taliban units may drift in or
drift out as the circumstances may be. So the numbers do change.
The battle, the pitched battle that was going on for some period of
time is not taking place at the moment. That does not mean it will not
start up again. A good many of the caves and the tunnels have been
closed, bombed, damaged, blown up; a good many have not been. There
are an enormous number of caves and tunnels. So what's taking place is
since there is no longer a large physical resistance, the people that
are there are moving into the open -- still-open tunnels and caves and
looking around, gathering intelligence information, seeing who's
there, and proceeding kind of systematically with that.
There are still anti-Taliban forces in the area. There are still U.S.
forces in the area. There are still airplanes that are available to do
whatever they are called upon to do. And at the moment, it's in just a
slightly different phase than it had been.
(cross talk)
Q: Mr. Secretary, at NATO you said that a German official perhaps
perceived a conversation wrong when he was quoted as saying that
Somalia is the next phase for the U.S. military effort. Can you tell
us: Are any U.S. troops in Somalia in any anti-al Qaeda effort?
Rumsfeld: To my knowledge, there's no U.S. military in there. You
know, I don't know -- there could be someone on leave or something,
but -- (muted laughter)
Q: Mr. Secretary --
Rumsfeld: You weren't here when I responded to that question earlier,
but the German was wrong. He didn't mean to be, and he's probably
sorry, but he was flat wrong.
Q: Mr. Secretary, there's been a lot of reports that European allies
are against the U.S. taking the war on terrorism to -- using military
force to oust Saddam Hussein. I'm wondering, having met with NATO
allies, can you characterize your discussions about Saddam Hussein and
their attitude about removing Saddam Hussein from power?
Rumsfeld: Well, but the -- all of the things you say you hear didn't
come up. I did not hear that during my two days at NATO.
Jim?
Q: Mr. Secretary, could you elaborate a bit on what's happening to the
prisoners held by the Pakistanis? Are there American officials
interviewing them? Are they being screened? Have any been turned over
to U.S. forces?
Rumsfeld: I'm not as knowledgeable as I might be in 24 hours. There
are very large numbers of them. My assumption -- and slight
information tells me that they've been rounded up, contained,
disarmed. And very likely -- and I think this is correct -- a quick
sort takes place. And the quick sort very likely would be to
distinguish between Pakistanis and all other for a first cut.
And then I'm told that a -- some sampling's been done, and they begin
to get a sense of what countries these people are from and what
they're up to. And they then probably put them into baskets and --
some under -- this category of people would be in one place, and
another category, if they think they're senior people, would be in a
different place. And we then are advised of what they have. And
clearly, we will be deeply involved in interrogation and intelligence
gathering, because it should be a treasure trove.
Q: Mr. Secretary?
Rumsfeld: Yes?
Q: Since you have just now come back from the area, the patience in
India is running out after the attack on the parliament. What they are
saying is this the same kind of attack which took place in Washington
and New York, and the same group based in Pakistan and with a
connection with Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. Now what I'm asking you
is if you have spoken with anybody in India at the highest level, like
in the Defense Ministry or so, and they are asking the United States
to take action against these terrorists and --
Rumsfeld: Not to my knowledge. I have not had a chance to talk to
anybody on this subject, and I'm not knowledgeable. I've read what
I've seen in the paper, and I saw that everyone has condemned the act,
but that's --
(cross talk) Yes?
Q: The military is on alert from both sides, and there might be some
kind of action --
Rumsfeld: You have more knowledge than I do. I'm not a good source on
this subject.
Q: So what the U.S. military will do? Let's say there's some kind of
attack --
Rumsfeld: I don't get into hypotheticals.
Yes?
Q: Mr. Secretary, you talked about how now this cave-to-cave search is
one that's a systematic one, but it's relying apparently on forces --
anti-Taliban forces that are shrinking or at least fluctuating in
number. Are you satisfied --
Rumsfeld: We've got folks there, too.
Q: Yeah. Are you satisfied with the pace of that, given the concern --
Rumsfeld: Oh, goodness. It's a tough area. People are getting
frostbite. It's cold. It's dark a good deal of the time. The weather's
been terrible.
Am I satisfied? Who am I to say I'm not satisfied? I mean, that's
tough, dirty work.
Q: I'm just thinking about the pace of operations up there --
Rumsfeld: I'm not unsatisfied at all. I think they're doing a very
good job under very difficult circumstances.
Yes?
Q: Mr. Secretary, what is your sense of the place where the
multinational force will operate in Afghanistan?
Rumsfeld: It's an open question. That's up to the interim government
of Afghanistan. And at the moment, they have for the most part said
that the Kabul area was what was intended. And it's my understanding
that the force that's being put together and hopes to be in there
sometime close to the 22nd of December intends to go into the Kabul
area in some way, shape, or form.
Whether or not at some point they would have an international security
force anywhere other than that is something that I think is down the
road.
Q: Mr. Secretary, where --
Rumsfeld: We'll make this the next-to-the-last question, and that's
the last question.
Q: What can you tell us about the 15 detainees that are being held in
Kandahar now? Are they senior Taliban, al Qaeda? Who are they?
Rumsfeld: They're people we're interested in interviewing. I guess
that's the word -- interrogating.
Q: Would you call them al Qaeda or Taliban? Either one?
Rumsfeld: Could be a mixture. I'd have to go back and look.
Q: And are there any al Qaeda that have been taken in Tora Bora that
are now in U.S. custody?
Rumsfeld: I don't know. I don't know. I suspect so, but I -- the
problem with U.S. custody is we have so few people in that area and
they're quite busy. And having a prisoner is a pain in the neck.
You've got to disarm them. You've got to make sure they don't get
away. You've got to contain them. And that takes people to do that,
and our people that are up there are there for a different purpose. So
for the most part, we're trying to see that detainees are detained by
larger forces, namely the anti-Taliban forces.
Yes?
Q: Mr. Secretary, of those prisoners who are in Pakistan, do you know
if any of them are top al Qaeda leaders, and if so, will the U.S. ever
be able to get their hands on them, if it is proved they are someone
who was involved in the September 11th attacks?
Rumsfeld: Well, if they're al Qaeda -- and it's hard to believe a
non-Afghan would be fleeing out of those valleys into the arms of the
Pakistani army, fleeing from the anti-Taliban forces and U.S. air
forces and U.S. ground forces -- it's hard to believe that they were
innocents. And it doesn't require that someone had been directly
involved in the September 11th bombing. If they're part of al Qaeda,
al Qaeda was involved. That's good enough for me. These are
terrorists. They are bad people. They are people that need to be
stopped. And you can be darn certain we're going to try to get our
hands on them. So.
Q: Mr. Secretary, one more?
Rumsfeld: No, that was the last one. (laughter)
Q: One more transformation question? How 'bout it? (laughter)
Rumsfeld: No. Thank you.
Q: Thank you.
(end Pentagon transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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