18 December 2001
Transcript: Rumsfeld, Ivanov Meet before NATO Defense Ministerial
(Talks on reductions in nuclear arsenal to begin in January) (2100)
Meeting December 17, the day before the NATO Defense Ministerial, U.S.
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and Russian Minister of Defense
Sergei Ivanov held a joint news briefing in Brussels and announced
that expert-level talks will begin in January on reductions of
strategic nuclear weapons.
Ivanov said the talks would focus on the levels and time frame of the
reductions as well as the issues of verification and transparency. "Of
course those parameters should be in compliance with the level of
trust and confidence that has emerged in our relations today," he
added.
He and Rumsfeld both said their just-completed two-hour meeting had
been too short and that they would meet again December 18. They had
discussed bilateral relations and international issues, including
U.S.-Russia cooperation on the anti-terrorist operation in Afghanistan
and Russia's relationship with NATO under the proposed "NATO at 20"
format which would include Russia in many NATO deliberations.
Asked about the U.S.-Russian relationship since President Bush's
decision to withdraw from the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) Treaty,
Rumsfeld said he would characterize it as "moving from mutual assured
destruction to mutual assured cooperation."
Ivanov said Bush's decision "was not a surprise for us" and that "we
still believe it was a mistake." However, the two countries can still
cooperate on reducing strategic weapons, he said.
He added that "Russia is not concerned or afraid regarding its
military security.... But we are very much concerned how the other
countries will behave and whether they will abide or not to any
international agreement thinking, logically, that if one country does
not abide why should we?"
On the anti-terrorism campaign, Rumsfeld said that "what's going on in
Afghanistan is proceeding according to plan, we are pleased with the
progress.... But it would be wrong to say that it is over, it's not,
there still is a good distance to go."
Following is a transcript of the joint press briefing:
(begin transcript)
U.S. Department of Defense
JOINT PRESS AVAILABILITY WITH SECRETARY OF DEFENSE DONALD H. RUMSFELD
AND RUSSIAN MINISTER OF DEFENSE SERGEI IVANOV IN BRUSSELS, BELGIUM
Monday, December 17, 2001
RUMSFELD: I am Don Rumsfeld and that is Sergei Ivanov. I am from the
United States and he is from Russia. We have met for a couple of
hours. It was not long enough. And we will be meeting more during this
week while we're here. And, with those preliminaries I'll let you hit
the substance.
IVANOV: Shall I speak Russian or English? Russian maybe. Yes, I am
Sergei Ivanov. He is Donald Rumsfeld. I just translated for you.
(Through translator) It is true that two hours of talks practically
without any interpretation were not enough for us. And we agreed to
continue or deliberations tomorrow in the format of two to discuss the
issues of the bilateral relations and some international issues. Today
we have also discussed the issues of our bilateral cooperation in the
course of the anti-terrorist operation conducted in the territory of
Afghanistan. Perhaps Secretary Rumsfeld will correct me, but I will
say that in this area we can witness -- and I am not afraid of saying
-- but what is unprecedented interaction. This interaction deals not
only with the issues of cooperation regarding Afghanistan. Since the
United States is undoubtedly a major country, a major NATO country, we
have also discussed ways to enhance our relations in the format of 20.
While saying a major NATO country, I mean first of all its the U.S.
military might since in political terms, as we all know only too well,
all NATO countries are equal.
The issues of strategic stability were separate on our agenda. We have
come to an agreement that in January on an expert level we will start
discussing the specific issues or military aspects of radical
reductions of strategic offensive weapons. Both the levels of
reductions and time frame of those reductions will be discussed and
worked out as well as the issues of verification and transparency. Of
course those parameters should be in compliance with the level of
trust and confidence that has emerged in our relations today.
RUMSFELD: Now I would like to give a lengthy speech. But unfortunately
I have arranged to host a very modest dinner some distance from here
that is due to start in 20 minutes. So instead of a lengthy set of
remarks on my part, I will simply say that we had an excellent meeting
which will be continued. I think we maybe ought to respond to a
question or two and I can take my leave and you all can go down to the
Avenue of the Butchers and enjoy yourselves. I recommend the mussels;
the moules are very good.
IVANOV: I do agree.
RUMSFELD: Go ahead Charlie.
Q: I wonder, you haven't mentioned the ABM treaty and missile defense
at all. I take it from your discussions and statement that President
Bush's announcement that the United States will withdraw from the
treaty has not drawn a chill on your relations and that you will move
full speed ahead with the new strategic relationship. Would that be
fair to say?
IVANOV: Actually this unilateral decision of the United States was not
a surprise for us. We still believe it was a mistake. We have been
presenting our arguments on the issue for many years so I am not going
to reiterate. But we still believe we still have a desire to bring the
relations in the area of strategic weapons into a reliable and
predictable area so we attach a lot of importance to the reductions of
the strategic offensive weapons. It equally concerns other
international treaties and agreements in the area of arms control and
non-proliferation. Well as far as Russian concerns, I can say
regarding the withdrawal from the treaty I can assure you that Russia
has no concerns it is not afraid of that new situation. What is of our
greater concern is what will be the attitudes and behavior of other
countries under the circumstances. Thank you.
RUMSFELD: Why don't we try one from Russia?
Q: (Through translator) Well this is your first meeting since the
United States announced it was leaving the ABM treaty. Was there a sea
change, was there a qualitative change, would you think, in the
relationship between the United States and the Russian Federation?
IVANOV: (Through translator) Well if my memory serves me right, it's
our fifth or perhaps sixth meeting with Mr. Rumsfeld this year. So I
can tell you that I did not feel any changes in our attitudes in the
meeting. Speaking of Russia's responses as you have talked about them,
I can tell you that this issue was not discussed today.
Q: Regarding the shifting situation in Afghanistan, can you just tell
us the latest thinking about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden, the
progress of the war, and what the prospects are for progress in the
near future?
RUMSFELD: The subject of the whereabouts of the senior al Qaeda and
senior Taliban leadership is an interesting question. I know everyone
is focusing on it. It seems to me that until they are located and
dealt with it's not useful to try to speculate about how close one
might be.
The second part of your question is that what's going on in
Afghanistan is proceeding according to plan, we are pleased with the
progress, and I had very good meetings in Afghanistan yesterday and
feel encouraged about the progress that is being made. But it would be
wrong to say that it is over, it's not, there still is a good distance
to go.
Q: (Through translator) You were called one of the main adversaries of
NATO's transition to NATO at 20, how do you explain that? And how do
you explain the idea of transformation?
RUMSFELD: You don't believe everything you read in the press do you?
My goodness gracious. I have a practice of being disinclined to
comment on reports that are inaccurate. Indeed the truth is that some
weeks and months ago I sat down with the minister in Moscow, as I
recall, and without prompting proposed some ways that I thought Russia
and NATO might cooperate more fully. So we need to be careful about
reading mischief-makers.
And I have run out of time --
Q: One more, please.
RUMSFELD: -- although I want everyone to know it has been a delight to
be with you.
Q: Can you tell us if any of the prisoners captured in Afghanistan in
recent days -- do you believe if any of them to be senior members of
the al Qaeda leadership? And can you speak for a moment about Mullah
Omar -- can you respond to reports...
RUMSFELD: Wait, wait, why don't we try one question because I am late?
Q: OK, well more specifically just about the seniors. Are any of the
prisoners you believe them to be senior al Qaeda leadership?
RUMSFELD: We will know more after they have been fully interrogated.
I did not get a chance to comment on the first question, and I would
say that one way to characterize what happened in the U.S.-Russia
relationship is the way that President Bush did. That we are moving
from mutual assured destruction to mutual assured cooperation.
And I will leave the minister he can answer both for himself and for
me in my absence. (Laughter.)
IVANOV: I can give you five minutes. (To Rumsfeld) Okay, I will see
you tomorrow.
Q: Mister Ivanov, are you pleased about the progress in Afghanistan?
IVANOV: In general yes, and I believe that the counter-terrorist
operation is going ahead based on quite a predictable scenario. And
the main military structure of the Taliban has been destroyed. But I
would like to stress again, and I agree with Secretary Rumsfeld,
saying that having destroyed the main military structure doesn't mean
that you have destroyed the Taliban and the rest of al Qaeda.
It is still a long way. We are only too well aware of that based on
the events in Chechnya where all major military units of the
separatists have been destroyed a long time back. So the Russian army
has not been operating actively there and still separate military
cells -- as you may call them -- and separate mercenaries they remain
there and their arrest or destruction remains our priority. At the
same time I believe that concurrently with the continuation of the
search for the terrorists and their arrest we should also think about
restoring the normal life in Afghanistan. Otherwise peace will never
come to that country.
Q: (Through translator) Well you know, you mentioned that the
withdrawal from the ABM treaty undermines, puts in to doubt, 30 other
security or arms control treaties. So in these terms what do you
believe is the most dangerous vacuum created with that situation? You
mentioned that your greatest concern is about other countries, so can
you specify?
IVANOV: Yes, I can. Primarily in the first place it deals with all
treaties, which to a certain extent, deal with non-proliferation
issues. First of all, it is the non-proliferation treaty. Secondly, it
is the nuclear test ban treaty. And thirdly, it is also under doubt,
is that the U.S. side will have to make a decision on an additional
protocol to the convention on biological weapons. I would like also to
remind you of the fact that as of today there is no legal mechanism
that would govern the strategic weapons reductions. Since the START I
treaty has actually been completed -- I mean the number of warheads --
while the START II treaty has never entered into force and obviously
may not enter into force. Perhaps these are the main points.
Q: Mr. Minister, you say that you are not, regarding the ABM treaty,
you are not afraid of the new situation. But you are worried about the
behavior of other countries. Are you worried that the U.S.' unilateral
decision to withdraw will change the balance somehow, in reference to
other countries, and encourage others to have a weapons buildup? And
can you respond in English?
IVANOV: In fact you answer your own question quite right. Russia is
not concerned or afraid regarding its military security. But we are
very much concerned how the other countries will behave and whether
they will abide or not to any international agreement thinking,
logically, that if one country does not abide why should we?
Thank you.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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