Transcript: Powell Interview on Meet the Press
(Secretary of State discusses Afghanistan, Middle East developments) (3480) There is broad agreement among the United States, Russia, Pakistan and the countries of South Asia that Northern Alliance forces, successfully advancing southward in Afghanistan in recent days, not enter the Afghan capital Kabul at this time, says Secretary of State Colin Powell. Speaking November 11 on the NBC program "Meet the Press," Powell said it will be important for the international community and the United Nations to be ready to move quickly to help Afghan elements come together in some form of a government and have some kind of temporary administrative presence in Kabul. On the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, asked about President Bush's use of the name "Palestine" in his November 10 speech to the United Nations General Assembly, Powell said: "The President used it yesterday quite deliberately to show that if one is moving forward with a vision of two states living side by side, just as Mr. Sharon has that as his vision, something that he hopes will be mutually agreed upon, and the whole international community wants to do that on the basis of UN Resolutions 242 and 338, it is appropriate then, as we start to reach more aggressively toward that vision to call those two states what they will be: Israel, Palestine." Following is a transcript of the Powell interview: (begin transcript) Interview on NBC's Meet the Press with Tim Russert Secretary Colin L. Powell New York, New York November 11, 2001 QUESTION: General Powell, welcome back to Meet the Press. SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you, Tim. Good morning. QUESTION: General Musharraf, is he safe? Is he secure? Are you satisfied that his government will remain stable during this war? SECRETARY POWELL: I have spent a lot of time talking to President Musharraf and I am very impressed by him. I am impressed by the boldness and courage that he has displayed in this crisis. I think he is securely in place. He has the support of his key people. He seems to have a plan as to how to deal with some of the disturbances he has seen in his society. And I think as we see more success on the battlefield and as the fighting changes and perhaps goes down, it will be easier for him to control that. He has had some economic difficulties which we are trying to help him with. But I think he is safe, I think he is secure, and I think he has been a very, very effective leader in this crisis. QUESTION: No risk to the nuclear arsenal falling into the wrong hands? SECRETARY POWELL: No, I don't see any risk of that. I have had direct conversations with the president about this, with President Musharraf. And he understands the importance of keeping those components, those systems under control. And I think he takes it very seriously. QUESTION: The General said the other day that Pakistan had ordered and purchased some F-16 fighter jets from the United States. We never delivered them because we imposed sanctions on their nuclear program, which was being developed. Will he get his airplanes? SECRETARY POWELL: We have had a conversation with the President about this and there are no plans now to transfer those airplanes to Pakistan. The United States, over the last ten years, has compensated Pakistan for those planes, and we have a new military-to-military dialogue ongoing with Pakistan but, at the moment, it does not include the transfer of those F-16s. QUESTION: Is he unhappy about it? SECRETARY POWELL: I think he would like to see the planes transferred and we had a fairly candid discussion about it. He and the President had a candid discussion about it. We will set it under advisement, but there are no plans for those planes to be transferred. QUESTION: He and his country also have a deep interest in Kashmir, a province that India and Pakistan have fought over for the last 60 years now, close to. Will the United States try to get involved in a settlement of Kashmir? SECRETARY POWELL: The two sides have to settle that and there needs to be a dialogue between Pakistan and India. To the extent that the United States can be helpful in fostering their dialogue, fine. But we cannot become the mediator, the arbitrator or the intermediary between them. QUESTION: How goes the war in Afghanistan? SECRETARY POWELL: Right now, I think it is going rather well, compared to the kinds of reports we were seeing a week or so ago. It seems quite clear that opposition forces have taken Mazar-e Sharif, although we will have to watch that, I think, for another day or two to be absolutely sure. And it seems like they are on the move in other parts of the country as well, and they are now speaking of moving across the Shamali Plain toward Kabul. So I think there has been quite a turnaround in the war in the last week or so. QUESTION: You do not want the Northern Alliance troops to physically enter Kabul. Why not? SECRETARY POWELL: Well, the Northern Alliance does not want to physically enter Kabul. They have said so for weeks now. Their foreign ministry yesterday reaffirmed that they prefer not to enter Kabul. Although, as he also said, if there is a power vacuum, they will have to take another look at that. All of the countries in the region, the United States, Russia and, as you heard, Pakistan through President Musharraf last evening say, it's better that they not enter Kabul. There are too many uncertainties as to what might happen. Entering a city is a difficult thing. You put people in close quarters. There are different tribal loyalties. We have seen what has happened previously when you had an uncontrolled situation and two forces arriving in Kabul at the same time, not meeting each well. So we think it would be better if they were to invest -- if I can pull an old military term out of my background -- invest the city, make it untenable for the Taliban to continue to occupy Kabul, and then we will see where we are. But when we reach that point, and if we see the Taliban leave, the international community, especially the United Nations and others of us interested, have to be ready to move quickly toward a political action that would help the new Afghan elements coming together in some form of a government to go in there, or to have some kind of temporary administrative presence in Kabul so that we don't have the kind of vacuum that is concerning the Northern Alliance Foreign Minister. QUESTION: Do you believe the Taliban will continue in control of Afghanistan through the winter? SECRETARY POWELL: I don't think we know the answer to that question yet. I think it is becoming more and more difficult for them. They are under stress from all directions now. The Northern Alliance has demonstrated success. I think the southern tribes that give the Taliban their support are going to start taking a hard look at the losses the Taliban are suffering and what the Taliban regime leadership is costing their country. And as we start to encourage those southern tribes, I think they might start deciding that there is a better life ahead by separating themselves from the Taliban and trying to help the Afghan people rather than keep this repressive, evil regime in place that supports Usama bin Laden and al-Qaida. QUESTION: What is our exit strategy out of Afghanistan? SECRETARY POWELL: Our strategy for Afghanistan -- let's not call it an exit strategy because this time we can't just exit, get up and walk away. We will be committed to help with humanitarian relief through the winter. And, after the demise of the Taliban regime, there will be a need for humanitarian relief. And we are committed to help with the reconstruction effort so that we can give the people of Afghanistan a sense of hope that the international community is not going to abandon them. So our exit strategy, I would like to send all of our military people home and get the planes out; we all would like to see that. But the United States will remain engaged as part of the international community, building hope and a sense of a positive future, a new future to the people of Afghanistan. QUESTION: Unlike 10 years ago? SECRETARY POWELL: Unlike 10 years ago. QUESTION: Let me turn to Usama bin Laden. The President said yesterday, again, we're going to get him. Condoleezza Rice, the National Security Advisor, had this to say on Thursday. She said, we're going to get him, period. Tommy Franks, the General who is prosecuting the war had this to say, we've not said that Usama bin Laden is the target of this effort. Is he or isn't he? SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, he is. From the very beginning, we have said that we are going after the al-Qaida network. The al-Qaida network is located in dozens of countries all around the world and we are targeting all of the cells of al-Qaida. And the chairman and CEO of al-Qaida is Usama bin Laden, the man who now shows up on television and threatens the Secretary General of the United Nations, he threatens Muslim countries, he threatens the world. He claims he has weapons of mass destruction. He cannot be left free to run around. So, sooner or later, we, the international community, all of us coming together are going to make sure that this network is ripped up and the leader of this network is brought to justice or justice is brought to him. QUESTION: Let me show you a photograph of an interview done by this journalist, Hamid Mir of the Dawn English-speaking paper of Pakistan, with Usama bin Laden on November 9th, he claims. And this is what Mr. bin Laden had to say: "I heard the speech of the American President Bush yesterday, November 7th. He was scaring the European countries that Usama wanted to attack with weapons of mass destruction. I wish to declare that if America used chemical or nuclear weapons against us, then we may retort with chemical and nuclear weapons. We have the weapons as deterrent." Does he? SECRETARY POWELL: I have no way of knowing, but I think it unlikely that he has any nuclear weapons. I can't say about chemical or biological. But this is the kind of threat that this evil person likes to toss around. It just shows you the nature of Usama bin Laden, the nature of his actions. I mean, how can he profess to be a representative of a faith that preaches love and acceptance and nonviolence and say things like this? It seems to me this should be a wakeup call to Muslims throughout the world. Look at this man. This is a man who says he is going to use nuclear, biological and chemical weapons against anyone who gets in his evil way. This should be a wakeup call to Muslims around the world that this is not a man of faith; this is a man of evil, this is a man who means no good, clearly not to the United States, but he means no good to any civilized nation. He is the worst form of tyrant on the face of the earth. QUESTION: You're convinced you'll get him? SECRETARY POWELL: We'll get him. QUESTION: This journalist found him. Got in his car, was blindfolded, was driven for five hours. Said it was a cool climate, he could hear battles in the background. He had a mud hut with windows. How can a journalist find him and we can't? SECRETARY POWELL: Because he wants a journalist to find him, he wanted to bring a journalist to him. You can be sure he does not want to bring the United States armed forces to see him. But you can be also sure that we are trying in every way possible to find him and to bring him to justice. QUESTION: Ten years ago when you led our efforts against Saddam Hussein, Saddam threatened to use nuclear and chemical weapons and the government, the Bush Administration said, Mr. Saddam Hussein, if you do that, we will respond with chemical and nuclear weapons of our own if need be. Would you say the same to Usama bin Laden? SECRETARY POWELL: Well, ten years ago, we said we would respond, and I don't think we were much more specific than that. But we really didn't need to be much more specific than that. Saddam Hussein knew what we were talking about. With respect to this wild boast and threats from Usama bin Laden, I think the answer is, against what, against whom? It's the kind of thing you don't toss around lightly. We have many ways to deal with this kind of threat and with this kind of a military challenge we are facing. The President has every option available to him. But it is a stretch of my imagination to say we would ever use those kinds of options. QUESTION: President Bush decided not to meet with Yasser Arafat, the head of the PLO, while in New York. Will you meet with Mr. Arafat? SECRETARY POWELL: We are trying to arrange a meeting today. I talk to Mr. Arafat on a regular basis and we have met twice so far since I have become Secretary of State. And I hope that we can get our calendars to mesh this afternoon. I am anxious to speak to him and to discuss the situation in the region and how we are planning to move forward. I am quite sure he has taken note of President Bush's statement in his speech yesterday with respect to our vision of two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in this one land. And I am anxious to discuss that with him and to keep the process moving forward. QUESTION: Our government has always avoided using the term "Palestine." Is it now our official policy that we will refer to this as "Palestine"? SECRETARY POWELL: The President used it yesterday quite deliberately to show that if one is moving forward with a vision of two states living side by side, just as Mr. Sharon has that as his vision, something that he hopes will be mutually agreed upon, and the whole international community wants to do that on the basis of UN Resolutions 242 and 338, it is appropriate then, as we start to reach more aggressively toward that vision to call those two states what they will be: Israel, Palestine. QUESTION: Why wouldn't President Bush meet with Mr. Arafat? SECRETARY POWELL: The President felt that there may be a time in the future when it would be appropriate to meet with Chairman Arafat. But this weekend and this occasion was not the appropriate time. He is totally committed to the peace process, he is totally committed -- President Bush is -- to the Mitchell Plan and the Tenet work plan to get into the Mitchell Plan. He has given me my instructions to work as hard as the Administration can and I would represent the Administration to get this started, but he thought this was not the appropriate time to meet with Chairman Arafat, and he looks forward that that time will come in the future. QUESTION: Saudi Arabia. They seem to be going out of their way to create anxiety or misery for us with some of their statements. Fifteen of the hijackers happened to be Saudi Arabians. They have not been particularly forthcoming in the investigation of those men. And the other day -- this is a comment made by their foreign minister. He said that his government was "angrily frustrated the Bush Administration has failed to begin a promised new peace initiative in the Middle East." He said Mr. Bush's failure to commit personal prestige to forging a final peace settlement between Israelis and Palestinians "makes a sane man go mad." SECRETARY POWELL: I was with Prince Saud the same day and he wasn't mad when I had a pleasant evening conversation with him, nor was he mad the next day when he spoke to President Bush at some length. Prince Saud and the Saudi leadership are close friends and allies with the United States. But the Prince was expressing the frustration that we all feel from time to time, that this process needs to have more energy, it needs to go forward. And we are trying to do that, and we have discussed this with Prince Saud. I think, however, he will find that President Bush is fully engaged, and I hope he noted that yesterday, in the President's UN speech, the very expression of this vision of two states living side by side, one of them called Palestine, is certainly an indication of the President's commitment. No Republican President has ever made a statement as forthcoming as that with respect to a future vision of the two states in that region. And so all of us sometimes think we are going a little mad dealing with this issue in the Middle East. Some days I worry about it myself. But we all know, fine, get the anxiety out, get the frustration out, and then get back to the work at hand, which is to get the violence down to zero, get the incitement down to zero, and let's get into the Mitchell Plan, let's start confidence-building activities moving forward, let's get the trust rebuilt and let's get back to negotiations. That is our vision. I think the President gave it a jump start yesterday in his speech. And I will be following-up on that jump start. There are other things that are now happening in the region that I think we are going to see in the next day or so, and I believe I can build on those actions. QUESTION: Many question whether Saudi behavior is that of an ally, with the hijackers, with the lack of cooperation in investigation, with the funneling of money to Usama bin Laden. Why do you think the Saudis are such good allies in light of that kind of behavior? SECRETARY POWELL: Because there are a lot of other "withs." With Saudi elimination of diplomatic relations with the Taliban, with Saudi dismissing Usama bin Laden, taking away his citizenship. And in recent weeks, the Saudis have done a lot with respect to financial transactions that go through the kingdom that might be traced to Usama bin Laden. They have aggressively gone after those. And all of the things we have asked the Saudis to do, they have responded favorably. Well, there will be more we will be asking them to do. As the President said in his speech yesterday, we're off to a good start, but we need to do more. And he challenged all nations of the world yesterday to do more in this campaign. And I'm sure the Saudis will do more. Do they get frustrated? Are we expecting them to tow the line and agree with everything we say? No, that's not what you expect of an ally. You expect an ally to be there when you really need them at the end of the day, and the Saudis are there for us when we really need them at the end of the day. QUESTION: You have been a military man all your life. What reaction within you, when you read criticism that Colin Powell is letting diplomatic niceties get in the way of a robust prosecution of the war, that he is slowing down our efforts? SECRETARY POWELL: It is absolute nonsense. It's meddlesome nonsense for people who just want to find ways to jab the Administration. The military authority, Secretary Rumsfeld and his very, very competent team, under his very competent leadership, were the ones who came up with the military plan in the first place, and that military plan has been executed exactly the way the military wanted to execute it. The State Department under my leadership, and both of us under President Bush's leadership -- it was my job to put a coalition together. Without that coalition, the military wouldn't have been able to present their forces into the region. So this is just meddlesome nonsense on the part of those who like to see if they can find fissures. But we are knitted up, the political and the military aspects of this. QUESTION: Colin Powell, I thank you for joining us. SECRETARY POWELL: Thank you. (end transcript) (Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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