UNITED24 - Make a charitable donation in support of Ukraine!

Military

09 November 2001

Transcript: Vice President Cheney Interview by London Sun, Nov. 9

(Vice President discusses war in Afghanistan, campaign against
terrorism) (4600)
Following is the transcript, released by the White House, of an
interview November 9 of Vice President Cheney by the London Sun:
(begin transcript)
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
November 9, 2001
INTERVIEW OF THE VICE PRESIDENT BY CONFERENCE CALL WITH THE LONDON SUN
Q: Mr. Vice President?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, sir?
Q: Hello -- from The London Times. Thank you for talking to me. The
Northern Alliance is just claiming that they have taken Mazar-e-Sharif
in Northern Afghanistan. Do you have any information that you can
share with us about that?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't. We just finished our morning NSC meeting,
and we did not have that information at that point. Apparently, what
I'm seeing -- I just turned on CNN here, and their ticker is running
the claim from the Northern Alliance that they are now in
Mazar-e-Sharif. But I don't have any independent confirmation of that
yet.
Q: Would it surprise you if that were the case, though, based on your
intelligence?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, it wouldn't surprise me. I think we've made
significant gains there in the last few days. I think the air campaign
is bound to have an impact. The key has been to get some of our people
on the ground with the units of the Northern Alliance; in this case,
commanded by General Dostam. And once they're on the ground, they're
able to spot targets and help our air units do a much more effective
job with our precision bombing of hitting Taliban positions. And it's
bound to have an impact. And that, combined with the determination and
courage of the troops on the ground, I'm not surprised that we've made
significant progress.
I'd say at this point, I can't confirm this latest report, but if --
it's just a matter of time.
Q: I'm just looking at the CNN and Dostam saying that 90 Taliban have
been killed, but this is just a report. How long can the Taliban last
now? I mean, if Mazar-e-Sharif has fallen, you talked about U.S.
troops on the ground -- I mean, how long do you think they can last?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: The Mazar-e-Sharif area, the city up there is, I
guess, has got upwards of 400,000 people in it. It's a fair-sized
community. It's not just a small town, obviously -- in a key strategic
part of the country. Once it falls to the Northern Alliance, then that
will allow you to open up a land route to Uzbekistan and begin to
resupply the Northern Alliance overland, which is a significant
development.
Q: You have 1,000 U.S. troops in Uzbekistan at least; that's what we
know publicly. Can we expect those to move into Afghanistan --
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't think of it so much as U.S. forces moving
into Afghanistan as just opening up a route that will make it a lot
easier to get equipment, supplies, ammunition and so forth in to the
Northern Alliance than it has been up until now.
It also, I think, threatens the Taliban hold on Northern Afghanistan.
Now, their major strongholds are back in Kandahar, Kabul, to some
extent Herat out to the West. But it's a significant development. I
mean, it would be perceived, I think, as a significant defeat for them
because they have worked hard to continually try to reinforce it in
recent days as the air campaign has taken effect. And it can begin to
have an effect, I would think, throughout the country in terms of the
extent to which members of the Taliban and individual military leaders
sort of reassess how long they want to stay affiliated with the
Taliban or whether or not they want to defect, as some already have.
Q: And the President's speech in Atlanta last night, he ended his
speech by saying, "Let's roll." And there's all kinds of indications,
quite apart from Mazar-e-Sharif, that Allied forces are ready to go in
on the ground. If Mazar-e-Sharif has fallen, can we expect the move
towards Kabul in the next few days or weeks?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: In terms of Northern Alliance forces?
Q: In terms of Northern Alliance forces assisted by yourselves and the
other allies?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I wouldn't -- first of all, I can't really predict
-- I don't speak for the Northern Alliance, clearly. We have been
active with our air campaign in terms of striking Taliban targets
outside Kabul that would need to be overcome before the Northern
Alliance could take the city. And I wouldn't get into the business of
commenting on prospective future U.S. force operations. That's one I'm
going to stay away from.
Q: Okay. Can I move on to Iraq? I mean, obviously we haven't got long.
The President said last night -- and I'm quoting him, "We are
beginning our effort in Afghanistan, and Afghanistan is only the
beginning." And then he went on to say that where terrorist groups
with global reach exist, the U.S. and its allies would destroy them.
If you had evidence that those terrorist groups existed in Iraq, will
you take military action in that country?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's a speculative question. What I'd do is, I
guess I'd want to reiterate the President's policy has been very
forthright in this regard, and that is to say that what we're faced
with here is a terrorist campaign that has struck hard here in the
United States, that inflicted thousands of casualties on innocent
Americans and many of your friends from overseas -- obviously, the
U.K. suffered several hundred casualties in the World Trade Center
bombing.
The situation with respect to states that host or provide sanctuary
for terrorists I think was captured in the President's original
statements, and I think will be addressed tomorrow in his U.N. speech,
when he goes up to address the General Assembly, and that is that a
state that hosts terrorists and provides sanctuary for them has to
accept guilt for their actions, just as much as the terrorists do.
Q: But that might include Iraq, if you had intelligence to support
that?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I will just leave it right where I left it.
Q: Right. You talk about the U.N. meeting on Saturday. I noticed that
Condoleezza Rice overnight said that the President would not be
meeting Chairman Arafat. Is that definite? Is there anything that
Chairman Arafat could do to change that scenario and actually bring
about a meeting?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: There's no plan at this stage for a meeting with
Arafat. The President is going to be up there; he's got a lot of other
meetings scheduled, with President Musharraf of Pakistan and so forth.
But there's nothing scheduled at present with Arafat.
Q: Okay. Can I ask you about the international coalition? How
important is the coalition to the United States at the end of the day?
Is it the means, or is it the end? I mean, is the coalition -- do you
see the coalition as there to assist the U.S. in what it has to do? Or
does the coalition have to exist in order for the U.S. to do what it
has to do?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, the coalition is absolutely essential, I
think, in terms of our activities. There are a number of things we can
do unilaterally, but in this particular kind of conflict, I think the
coalition adds immeasurably to our success.
When you think about what we're doing, it's not just military
activity. A lot of it's also diplomatic. A lot of it involves
intelligence efforts, both overt and covert. A lot of it involves, for
example, coordinated activity to freeze financial assets that have
gone to support the al Qaeda network.
That doesn't mean, for example, that the coalition is the end of the
process here. It's a means to an end, which is the defeat of
international terrorism. And the coalition may shift from time to
time, in terms of some nations able to do more than others, some
willing to sign up to work on a particular problem, but not another.
And we're happy to work with anybody who wants to work with us on it.
But I think there's no question but that the coalition is vitally
important. Prime Minister Blair has been a key part in helping put all
that together and as a leader of the effort.
Q: And obviously, pre-election last year, Tony Blair and his team were
very close, politically and in many ways, to the Clinton-Gore team.
And many of us have been surprised at the relationship which the Prime
Minister seems to have developed with the President. How close is that
relationship, in terms of personal friendliness and trust?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think it has gotten to be very close. I have
watched it -- I have watched other relationships between the U.K. and
the U.S. over the years. I have worked closely, of course, when I
worked with President Bush back in '89 to '93, the Gulf War was Mrs.
Thatcher. John Major is a good friend. I think it has more to do with
the special relationship that exists between the U.S. and the U.K. is
at the heart of it. But there's no question but that these two guys
have hit it off. I mean, they work very well together, talk to each
other on the telephone all the time. There is, I think, a good deal of
mutual respect there for what each other brings to the relationship. I
know the President relies very heavily on Prime Minister Blair in
terms of advice. And as I say, the leadership role he has taken in
this particular circumstance where he's really stepped out and been a
major leader of the international effort.
Q: How important is Britain, and Tony Blair particularly -- how
important has his personal support been in coming up to Congress so
quickly after September the 11th and so forth? How important has that
been for you yourself, and for the administration?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, that was a very special night, when the
President went up and addressed the joint session of Congress, I think
partly because of, sort of the event that it commemorated, that, in
effect, you were trying to deal with these attacks of September 11th.
I can't think of another time when a leader of a foreign nation
participated the way the Prime Minister did that night, being there to
witness the event and share in it. It was something we all deeply
appreciated.
And one of the things that his active role in all of this has helped
remind everybody is that this really was an assault not just on the
United States, but they hit the World Trade Center -- that of the
thousands of people killed, hundreds of them were from overseas, many
of them Muslim. Some 80 nations lost people in the World Trade Center,
and the international dimension of the threat and of what's required
by way of a response, I think, was captured very much by the Prime
Minister's role.
I guess the other thing I'd mention is that we've had close
cooperation over the years, for a long, long time. We see it in the
military arena, with the contribution of the British military forces.
And we see it in the intelligence arena, with a very close working
relationship in those matters. I mean, it's -- when the balloon goes
up, that relationship often comes into play, and it certainly has in
this case.
Q: How important to you are the British intelligence agencies?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Very important.
Q: I'll just ask a few questions about bin Laden. How -- do you know
where he is?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I can't talk about that.
Q: Do you think -- do you expect him to survive the winter?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I don't want to get into speculating about where
he might be, or -- that would be -- you've got to ask, but it would be
inappropriate for me to respond.
Q: Okay. But you're very confident, looking at how the military action
is progressing, that you're on course to achieve the aim that you set
out after the 11th of September?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. I'm comfortable that we're making
significant progress, especially if this report is correct this
morning. But even apart from that, I think you can see that we've done
enormous damage to the Taliban in terms of their military assets and
capabilities. I think we've done a great deal around the world to
disrupt the al Qaeda organization and network, and to get at their
financial assets and resources. A lot of good, cooperative efforts
with the security services of various countries. I think all of that
is beginning to pay off, as well, too.
But the other point I would make here is that the President is, from
the standpoint of the United States, is absolutely determined to
prevail in this case, and that we're prepared to do whatever we have
to do to see to it that we destroy the al Qaeda network and Osama bin
Laden. And since the Taliban refused to turn him over and have, in
fact, provided sanctuary for him over the years as he has launched
attack after attack on the United States or our forces overseas, that
they, too, obviously, are going to suffer a similar fate.
Q: I know that every morning you look at a threat matrix, and I know
you've looked at that today. Do you expect Britain to be a target of
al Qaeda terrorism? Would you expect that to happen at some stage?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: It's certainly possible. I wouldn't want to make a
hard and fast prediction because I don't know. But I assume that Osama
bin Laden is well aware of the effort being made by Britain alongside
the United States, the leaders in this international effort,
obviously. And the possibility exists that at some point he will try
to launch some kind of an attack on the U.K.
Q: What kind of attack?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Who knows? I couldn't predict. We didn't -- we
were unable to predict what happened on September 11th, and the
situation, though, with respect to this kind of threat, obviously, is
there is -- that it presents us with a new dimension of the problem
that we have to deal with.
When you're dealing with the Cold War and you had adversaries, you
could deter them from aggression by threatening what they valued,
their homeland, which we did throughout the Cold War. Here, you're
dealing with somebody who doesn't have anything they value. Deterrence
doesn't work. Negotiations don't work. The only way to deal with it is
to destroy them, and the quicker the better.
Q: The U.S. is quite clearly, and the President is quite clearly
determined to see this through. People talk about the public relations
battle, and people talk about the public relations battle being lost
certainly in Europe, to a degree here, and even in the U.S. Does that
concern you? Or is this just a situation where you will continue to
achieve your objectives no matter what anybody thinks?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I would -- I guess I would respond in two ways.
First of all, we're absolutely determined to achieve our objective,
and the President is prepared. If it takes his entire presidency to do
it, so be it. By the same token, we understand the importance of
communicating with people what it is we're about and why, and making
sure we get our side of the story out there. And there has been -- I
think it probably would be fair to say we have not been as effective
at that as we would like to be, and we're trying hard to improve.
It is important to continually remind people, especially our friends
in the Muslim world and throughout the Middle East, the extent to
which the idea that somehow Osama bin Laden speaks for Islam is just a
flawed notion. This is a guy who has obviously perverted one of the
world's great religions in order to try to use it to justify the
slaughter of innocents; a guy who -- when you think about the hundreds
of Muslims killed at the World Trade Center as a result of his
actions, there's no question but what the effort needs to be made
continually to succeed, if you will, in the struggle for public
opinion, not only in the United States and Europe, but in the Middle
East, as well, and we'll continue to do that.
Q: Bearing that in mind, you would agree that that -- for the duration
of the Bush presidency, this is clearly objective number one. Do you
think that we'll see this resolved during the first term of the Bush
presidency, though, or do you think it could go on longer than that?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I think we'll see that we achieve our
immediate objectives during that time.
Q: Which are?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: In terms of taking down the al Qaeda network and
Osama bin Laden, and the Taliban and Afghanistan. But in terms of the
struggle against terrorism on a worldwide basis, that may well last
longer. And we may find, from the standpoint of the United States,
that a lot of the measures that we're adopting now to deal with a
crisis that arose on September 11th will become permanent changes --
the way we live and the way we operate, a greater sensitivity and
awareness, with respect to security all across our society. And we'll
just have to adjust and adapt to that. That's a permanent fact of
life.
Q: But America's now a different country, isn't it? I mean, the
President mentioned last night the end of innocence. And in many ways,
the Trade Centers could only have been built in the U.S. They were a
sort of defiant symbol of a successful nation. Do you think they
should be rebuilt?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I haven't really arrived at sort of my own
opinion in that regard. I think something very special needs to be
done with that site. Exactly what that ought to be, I don't know.
People of New York have begun the debate. I'm sure the local officials
up there will have strong feelings about it. But there have been a lot
views all across the country, I'm sure, and there probably will be a
fairly steady debate, as people come forward with ideas and things
that they'd like to see done with the site. But it's also important to
remember it is privately owned, at this stage, and the owner obviously
will have a great deal of say about what ultimately happens to it, as
well as the state and local officials.
Q: Okay. I just wanted to ask you one last question. Since the 11th,
you've almost disappeared. I mean, you've spent very little time with
the President face to face. And we're told that you're at the secure
location, which is where I understand you are at the moment. Can you
explain why this is, and say a little about where you are, as far as
you can?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, what we've done -- one of our prime
responsibilities, one of my major responsibilities, obviously, is to
worry about the continuity of government, to provide for the
presidential succession. And the only reason I'm here, should
something happen to the President, the Vice President is in charge of
being ready to take over. And given that fact, and secondly, the fact
that on September 11th it's pretty clear that the terrorists had
designs on Washington, far grander than what they were able to achieve
-- that is to say the passengers obviously took over United 93, or
tried to take it back from the terrorists, and it crashed in
Pennsylvania, never arrived in Washington, where it was headed. Some
speculation that the plane that hit the Pentagon took it as a
secondary target, that its primary target might have been the White
House, and they were unable to execute on that.
So you've got a situation in which you don't want to provide the
terrorists with a target of being able to, in effect, decapitate, if
you will, the U.S. government, by striking at both the President and
the Vice President at the same time. So we now take more precautions
than we used to. And as the threat level goes up, we take extra
precautions, in terms of making certain the President and I are not in
precisely the same location at the same time.
We are in communication all the time. We spend a couple hours together
every morning, secure video conference capability that I have with me
wherever I go. So when we have our morning intelligence briefs, and
sessions with the Director of the FBI and CIA, NSC meetings and so
forth, or this morning for example, a detailed briefing from General
Franks, the communication is very good. We talk to each other several
times during the course of the day.
So there's no loss of participation in the overall process and the
policymaking efforts of the administration. But we've built in some
extra security by my staying away from the White House when he's in
the White House. Then when he travels, I return to my more normal
haunts.
Q: Right. It was your decision, though, your advice, I think, which
resulted in Air Force One turning west on the 11th, and the President
heading away from Washington.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.
Q: He took some criticism for that, both at home and here. What do you
think about that?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think it was exactly the right decision. The
criticism was unfair. It would have been foolish in the extreme, given
what we knew that morning, to have him come rushing back to the White
House.
What had happened was we'd had the second plane hit the World Trade
Center in New York. I was in the West Wing. And as we watched that
unfold, within a matter of minutes after -- less than 30 minutes after
the second plane hit, we got an alarm that the FAA controller out of
Dulles Airport called the Secret Service -- they've got a hotline to
the White House -- and said there was a third plane headed directly
for the White House, at 500 miles per hour. That's when they evacuated
me out of the West Wing, to bunker underneath, and sent everybody else
out of the White House.
At that moment, once I got down into the more secure location, I got
back on the phone. I'd already been on the phone with the President
once that morning. I got back on the phone again, and urged him not to
return to Washington, and it looked like the White House was a target.
We did not know what was out there. The first reports we had were that
there were six aircraft hijacked. And at that point, we could only
account for three, two that had to the World Trade Center, and one
went into the Pentagon.
For the two of us to bunch up in Washington, not knowing what was
planned by way of our adversaries at that moment would have been a
really stupid mistake. And so I advised him to delay his return to
Washington until the situation was clarified. He did that, went to
Offutt Air Force Base, our strategic command headquarters, where we
have great communications. And he convened a meeting of the National
Security Council from there and, of course, was back in Washington
that evening. So he delayed his return for a few hours. But I think I
gave him good advice, and it was the right thing to do.
Q: Was there a specific threat to Air Force One itself? Because you
said that on Meet the Press the week --
THE VICE PRESIDENT: There was.
Q: Can you say a little bit more about that, because  -- 
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, from my perspective there was. I was in
frequent contact with the President on Air Force One. I also had
communications with Don Rumsfeld over at the Pentagon, with -- I had
Norm Mineta, our Secretary of Transportation, Condi Rice, National
Security Advisor and so forth, in the bunker with me. We received a
report that came -- was brought into the room by one of the staff
people that there had been a threat come in that Air Force One was
targeted.
And we cranked that into the equations, just as everything else. We
provided the fighter cover for Air Force One at that point. It was
about the time that we were getting the CAPs up, the Combat Air
Patrols, over the city of Washington and New York and so forth -- at
the same time.
So what happens in a crisis like that, you get a lot of information.
Some of it's accurate, some of it isn't. But you're not able to tell
that at the outset -- I've already seen two planes crash into the
World Trade Center, one plane crash into the Pentagon. I'm told there
are there other commercial airliners that may have been hijacked that
we can't account for. Another report comes in and says Air Force One
is a target. Now, what am I going to say, sort that out and say, no
that's not for real? We didn't have any way to evaluate at the time.
We had to act on it, and we did act on it, and cranked it into our
thinking, and as I say, made sure we had fighter cover up for Air
Force One, and that we took precautions to make certain the President
was at a secure location. MS. MATALIN: David, last question please.
Q: One last question. America is a very uneasy place at the moment,
obviously. You talked about the possibility of a threat in the U.K.
The anthrax attacks, which have happened since September 11th, CBS is
reporting that they -- that these may be an American -- what you might
call an American loony, and not a Muslim terrorist. Do you think --
are those reports correct, do you think? Do you have anything you
could share with us?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: We just don't know. We're working hard trying to
find out exactly what the source of the anthrax attacks are. But at
this stage, we don't know whether that's something that's generated
here at home, or whether it's part of the Osama bin Laden-al Qaeda
attack on the U.S. It's clearly a terrorist attack; whether it's
domestic or foreign, we don't know.
Q: Absolutely. But you have no proof that it's al Qaeda or bin Laden?
THE VICE PRESIDENT: At this stage, I can't say.  We just don't know.
Q: Great, I appreciate your time.  Thank you very much indeed.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.  Thanks for your interest.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)



NEWSLETTER
Join the GlobalSecurity.org mailing list