08 November 2001
Transcript: Rumsfeld Welcomes Coalition Military Participation
(Secretary of Defense speaks on PBS NewsHour Nov. 7) (5960)
Partners of the United States in the coalition against terrorism are
making significant military and other contributions to the campaign
against the Taliban in Afghanistan and the al Qaeda terrorist network,
says Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
Speaking late November 7 on the PBS NewsHour, Rumsfeld said
representatives of many coalition partners are working in Florida at
the command center for the Afghanistan campaign, supplying many kinds
of assistance, such as intelligence sharing and coordination of
overflight and basing rights.
"[I]f you have a major ground activity you will see a great many
countries involved," he said. He added that logistical problems do
limit what coalition members can do now in Afghanistan, but one way
they are helping is by replacing U.S. forces stationed in places like
Bosnia and Kosovo on peacekeeping duty.
Rumsfeld had special praise for Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf:
"Here's a neighboring country that had relations with Taliban that has
threats of terrorist acts against it and yet he made a decision to
support the United States and has allowed us to participate and to be
involved in his country in certain discreet ways which we are doing."
Responding to questions about al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden,
Rumsfeld said he thinks bin Laden is still alive and in Afghanistan,
and said "we'll find him." But even if bin Laden were killed, Rumsfeld
said, "al Qaeda would still exist. He has a large organization. It's
well financed. He's got a lot of key lieutenants. And it would not end
things."
Following is a transcript of the interview on PBS:
(begin transcript)
United States Department of Defense
NEWS TRANSCRIPT
Presenter: Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
November 7, 2001
Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with PBS NewsHour
(Interview with Jim Lehrer for PBS NewsHour.)
Lehrer: A month ago today, the United States and Britain launched the
military campaign in Afghanistan. With us now for an extended
Newsmaker interview, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. Mr.
Secretary, welcome.
Rumsfeld: Thank you.
Lehrer: A month ago, how long does it seem to you?
Rumsfeld: A lot longer.
Lehrer: Yeah. In general terms what has been accomplished in this
month?
Rumsfeld: Well, if you go back to the September 11th, almost two
months ago, the first phase was necessary was to position forces in
the region so that you had the ability to begin the operation in
Afghanistan. Of course that involves a great deal, moving a lot of
people, a lot of equipment, getting over flight rights, basing rights
from various countries, negotiations and fashioning a plan.
The second month, as you point out, is one month ago now, on October
7th, we began the bombing campaign with coalition forces. What has
been accomplished since then has been basically this: We have the
first phase of it was to eliminate the air defense capability to the
extent you're able to. That means radars, it means jet aircraft that
they have, MiGs, some of their helicopters and transports -- also to
address the SAM -- surface to air -- missile threat.
You cannot really deal with the man portables surface to air missiles
that are of a much shorter range. They still have a good many of those
and they probably have larger surface to air missiles. But for the
most part we're now able to operate over the country in the air at
altitude.
Lehrer: But helicopters still --
Rumsfeld: Exactly, still at risk. And from the manned portable surface
to air missiles, so that was the first phase. The second phase was to
attack the terrorist training camps, the large military targets --
when I say large, medium sized military targets because there's
nothing. They don't have an army or a navy or an air force as such to
tackle. So it's a totally new situation. There's no road map. This has
been never been done before.
The next phase has been to work with the forces on the ground that
oppose the Taliban and oppose the al Qaeda who are really people from
the Middle East who aren't from that country.
Lehrer: The al Qaeda people, Osama bin Laden's people.
Rumsfeld: Exactly. And to go after them, to assist the opposition
forces that are opposing those people -- and we're doing that by going
after their tanks, their armored personnel carriers, their people,
their soldiers. And that process has gotten a lot better because we
have been able to put some forces on the ground who are assisting with
communications, they're assisting with targeting.
As those people got into the various factions on the ground, the
targeting has improved and we've been able to do a much better job of
destroying Taliban soldiers and equipment.
Lehrer: These are our people you're talking about?
Rumsfeld: U.S. forces.
Lehrer: Let's go through the Taliban now. Is the Taliban still in
charge of Afghanistan?
Rumsfeld: Not really. It never really was a government. It's more of a
movement. But given the fact that we are putting so much pressure on
them, we're drying up money in bank accounts, we're arresting people
around the world for -- that are al Qaeda connected. And we are
bombing.
Forces on the ground are pressing forward somewhat. And we're creating
a situation where life is not easy for the Taliban or for the
al-Qaeda. That means that they're really not functioning as a
government, as such. There's still -- they're still a force to be
contended with. They've got thousands of troops.
Lehrer: How many thousand?
Rumsfeld: They have tanks.
Lehrer: How many thousand?
Rumsfeld: No way to know.
Lehrer: 40, 50 thousand they claim.
Rumsfeld: Probably in that range.
Lehrer: Armed, trained people?
Rumsfeld: These are fighters, you bet. Most of the people that are
left are fighters. Think of the Soviets pounded that country. These
countries -- These factions have been fighting against each other for
years. It's a situation where the people who don't want to fight have
pretty much left.
Lehrer: Now what about tanks and armaments?
Rumsfeld: They have tanks.
Lehrer: And good ones that work.
Rumsfeld: You bet. They have tanks that move and shoot; they have
armored personnel carriers. They have artillery.
Lehrer: When you started a month ago, you had some information about
the Taliban. What have you learned about the Taliban in the course of
this month that you did not know going in? What's the most important
thing?
Rumsfeld: I guess one thing, it was unclear to me -- and I think to
most people -- we knew that the Taliban had invited in the al Qaeda,
Osama bin Laden and the foreigners from the Middle East and that they
were harboring those terrorists.
We knew that the al Qaeda was giving money to the Taliban, and it was
not clear to me the extent to which they were philosophically and
ideologically or religiously connected to al Qaeda. It still isn't,
but the fact that they're hanging on and linking themselves so
directly with al Qaeda, refused every offer to turn them in, every
suggestion that they throw them out of their country, suggests that
they're pretty well together now. They are one. That's fine. They both
have to go.
Lehrer: You thought it might be possible to split them off, right?
Rumsfeld: Well, we made that proposal as you may recall.
Lehrer: I do.
Rumsfeld: It was unclear how they would respond because there was
pressure in Taliban against Omar to -- that argued that we don't want
those people that aren't from our country. We don't want those
terrorists.
Lehrer: What have you learned about them in terms their tenacity, in
terms of their toughness, in terms of their willing to fight to the
last man as they claim they're willing to do?
Rumsfeld: Well, not much. I haven't learned much. These people were
that way against the Soviets.
Lehrer: You already knew that.
Rumsfeld: You bet. They have been fighting each other. Those that are
left are fighters. That's what they do. When they get up in the
morning.
Lehrer: Do you feel like you're against a smart enemy, a lucky enemy,
a fanatic? How do you characterize them?
Rumsfeld: Well, certainly, a large fraction of the ones that are left
have to be of the bin Laden type, attitudinally, philosophically. And
if you watch some of the tapes he's made and read some of his
comments, it's chilling. I mean this is a man who rules everyone out
who doesn't agree with him. And he's willing to kill as many tens of
thousands of people as he's able to find.
Lehrer: Have you had an occasion where something happened on the
ground as a result of something we did and you said, oh, my goodness,
the Taliban did something smart that you hadn't expected them to do
that gave you an insight into their ability to function as an enemy?
Rumsfeld: They've been -- we began with the recognition that people
that were left in that country were survivors. They are people who
live in a rough country, a hostile environment, difficult winters, a
lot of mountains up North. And they have fought against the Soviets
and threw them out. They fought against each other.
They've been in many cases quite violent to each other in terms of
cruelty. And they also know their country well. They've got lots of
caves, lots of tunnels. They use horseback and mule and donkeys to
move around. They've been able to find ways to re-supply themselves.
But they're not invincible.
There's a big difference between this situation and the Soviets. The
Soviets, they had a -- the United States and others against them.
There's no one today who is supporting Taliban. I mean the rest of the
world is with us and against al Qaeda.
Lehrer: What can you tell us about -- there have been reports now that
the Taliban is putting not only troops but also military equipment in
residential areas, in mosques and all of that.
Rumsfeld: Yes, sir.
Lehrer: Hoping that we will bomb them and there will be widespread
civilian casualties. Is that true?
Rumsfeld: It is true. There's no question but what they are doing is
they're taking their tanks and their artillery and their various
command-and-control centers, they're using mosques, they're using
hospitals, schools and residential areas.
And it's having several effects. One is they have -- it's a win-win
for them. Either we don't bomb them because they're in a mosque --
Lehrer: Sure.
Rumsfeld: -- in which case they're safe. Or if we do bomb them, they
bring the press in there with a bus and their cameras and take
pictures and say what terrible people the westerners are who are doing
this. The third effect, however, is interesting. There's no question
but that there are Afghan people who don't like it.
They don't like the fact that they're being put at risk, their
hospitals, their schools, their mosques, their residential areas by
people who don't care if they're killed. At some point they're going
to -- the Taliban and the al Qaeda are going to be functioning in a
more hostile environment. And the people of Afghanistan, I think, must
know that we're not against them, that it's not against a race or a
religion or a people. It's against terrorists.
Lehrer: Am I wrong, isn't that -- what they're doing against
international law to put military -- any kind of military asset in a
civilian environment?
Rumsfeld: Oh, these people couldn't care less about international law.
I mean, they killed 5,000 people in the United States without batting
an eye. If they had had weapons of mass destruction, they would have
killed hundreds of thousands of people.
Lehrer: No question in your mind?
Rumsfeld: No, not a bit.
Lehrer: How is this affecting our strategy? In other words, are we
still bombing these sites even though we know there may be civilians
in there? How is it affecting our decision-making?
Rumsfeld: Well, what we're doing is we're trying to put pressure on
them everywhere, and we have a variety of weapons and weapon
platforms, and munitions, some of which are very, very precise.
Bombs tend not to be. You can have an errant bomb. For example, our
precision- guided weapons might be 85, 90 percent accurate. We can
tell where they're going to go within -- except for the last 10
percent.
And then you might have an errant weapon that goes to the wrong place.
We have, however, some platforms where they're 100 percent accurate
for all practical purposes and very powerful. So, we're trying to find
ways to use more of that for the areas where we have to be quite
precise.
Lehrer: Because they have them in these civilian areas, right?
Rumsfeld: Exactly.
Lehrer: How many -- what is the total US casualty figure now?
Rumsfeld: There has been no one killed by the al Qaeda or the Taliban.
We've had one helicopter that was in Pakistan standing by to go in and
perform a rescue mission, were it to have been necessary, which it was
not. And they landed in an area where the dust storm was so severe
that the helicopter tipped over and two were killed.
And, as I recall, two were injured out of that helicopter crew. We've
had several -- when you use the word casualty I assume you mean not
just dead but also wounded.
Lehrer: Yes.
Rumsfeld: If you go down to Fort Bragg where they have parachute drops
in a perfectly controlled situation, when it's over, if you drop 100
people, you're going to have X number of broken ankles, X number of
scratches from landings. So when we've parachuted people in, we've had
roughly that number.
We had a couple of -- two people who broke bones in their feet. One
broke a finger. On one special op, they used some explosives to break
in to a building in the southern portion of Afghanistan, and some of
the fragmentation from materials that the building was made out of, I
don't know if it was wood or plaster or mud, came and hit some people
and very minor, minor scratches and wounds.
We received light fire on that mission. So the casualties have been
quite minimal. But these people are at risk. And there are going to be
people killed. Let there be no doubt about it.
Lehrer: How many Taliban have died so far?
Rumsfeld: Oh, my goodness. I don't have a number. There's no way I
could prove it so I suppose I shouldn't give it. I see these reports
come across my desk every day, twice a day. And the numbers are, you
know, 20 here, 40 there, 12 here, 6 here. It just keeps adding up day
after day after day.
Lehrer: Isn't it important to know how you're doing in terms of
killing the enemy? No?
Rumsfeld: I think there's other ways you can measure than body count.
You need to know what you're starting with. And that's very difficult
in Afghanistan. It's very difficult to know the precise number of MiG
aircraft, the precise number of helicopters, the precise number of
tanks.
These things are hidden, they're buried, they're in tunnels, they're
all over the place. So it's nothing wrong with counting -- and we do;
we've got things that we track every day -- but, no, I don't think
that's what's determinative.
I think what we need to do is put pressure on their bank accounts. We
need to arrest them all across the world. We are. We're up in the
hundreds now of people who have been arrested and interrogated. The
intelligence we get out of that is terribly important.
Lehrer: But are we into the thousands in terms of dead Taliban
fighters?
Rumsfeld: Oh, I would doubt it. I don't know that. I couldn't say it.
Lehrer: What about civilian casualties on the ground?
Rumsfeld: Modest. Very, very few.
Lehrer: What does that mean?
Rumsfeld: You always feel terrible when it happens. We know of one
instance where there were three or four who were killed and several
wounded. The Taliban, of course, are not telling the truth. They lie.
And they've got a report this morning that was amusing.
They said so far they had killed 95 Americans since this started. They
haven't killed any. What they do is there will be an attack in an area
outside of town or on the periphery of the village. They'll go in and
bring stretchers from a clinic, plant people there, bring in the
press, have pictures taken and contend that we had done it.
If you think about it, there's ordinance coming from four locations.
It's coming from the air where we drop it. It's coming from the ground
up where they shoot back. Of course all that -- all of that ordinance
ends up some place, and it kills people and it hurts things. And then
there's people on the ground, the opposition forces, shooting at the
Taliban and the Taliban shooting back.
So you've got four different sources of ordinance flying around. Of
course, the contention always is that it is us. I don't believe
there's ever in history been an effort that has been this precise.
Lehrer: Why are you being so careful?
Rumsfeld: Well, for several reasons. We have nothing against the
Afghan people. They have been just treated terribly by the Taliban.
There are millions of them starving. As winter comes you just have to
-- your heart has to go out to them.
The second reason is because we don't want to kill civilians. We just
don't, so we make an effort not to.
Third, if you kill a lot of civilians, the people inside Afghanistan
will believe you're not discriminating and that you are against the
people of Afghanistan and instead of defecting and leaving Taliban and
leaving al Qaeda, they're going to be more supportive and they're
going to be against the United States and the coalition forces. And we
don't want that.
And, fourth, there are a lot of Muslims in the world. To the extent
you behave in a way that suggests that you don't really care about
whether or not you're killing soldiers and people that are terrorists
or civilians, you just don't care, they then take that aboard and it
makes life difficult for countries that are supporting us that have
large Muslim populations.
Now it's not true. The United States supported Kuwait. We supported
Bosnia. We fought in Kosovo, we've been -- humanitarian assistance in
Somalia -- 170 million, the biggest food donor out of any country in
the world for Afghanistan before September 11th.
We are not against the Muslim people. We're not against Islam. This
has nothing to do with that. It has to do with terrorists who are
butchering people around the world. Mass murderers.
Lehrer: Osama bin Laden, is he still alive?
Rumsfeld: I would think so.
Lehrer: In Afghanistan?
Rumsfeld: I think so.
Lehrer: You think so?
Rumsfeld: Um-hum. He does not carry a locator around to assist us.
Lehrer: As a practical matter, can this war on terrorism, no matter
how long it lasts, if that man is still alive when it's over, can it
--
Rumsfeld: We'll find him.
Lehrer: You'll find him?
Rumsfeld: (Nodding).
Lehrer: It is on the list of important things.
Rumsfeld: Sure. On the other hand, he could show up today dead and I'd
be delighted but al Qaeda would still exist. He has a large
organization. It's well financed. He's got a lot of key lieutenants.
And it would not end things, nor would Omar end things, the head of
the Taliban.
Lehrer: Is Osama bin Laden still running al Qaeda?
Rumsfeld: Oh, sure.
Lehrer: And in a very effective way?
Rumsfeld: You really never know until sometime later. Of course
effectiveness --
Lehrer: What does that mean?
Rumsfeld: What's it mean? How many people you're killing? How many
people have you killed today? Is that the report card for al Qaeda? I
suppose it is.
Lehrer: What have you done to al Qaeda, what has the bombing done to
al Qaeda's ability to function in Afghanistan?
Rumsfeld: It's hurt it.
Lehrer: It's hurt it -- in what way?
Rumsfeld: And around the world. The president's program being so
broadly based and being financial and economic and law enforcement as
well as military overt and military covert, the pressure that's been
put on that network around the world is substantial.
We have enough information to know that all the arrests that have been
made have disrupted terrorist attempts. We know that the intelligence
we're getting from countries all across the globe is helping us run
down people who we then arrest and interrogate. We're drying up bank
accounts as you reported earlier today.
Lehrer: But we also just reported Tom Ridge saying there's always --
there's still an imminent possibility of another terrorist attack by
these people. So something -- I mean they're still functioning, are
they not?
Rumsfeld: Of course. Are they functioning as efficiently as they had
been previously? No. Are they still there across the globe? You bet.
They're in 40, 50, 60 countries, just al Qaeda alone, that one network
is out there. And there are countries that harbor and foster and
facilitate or at least tolerate that kind of behavior.
Lehrer: There have been a lot of reports that while, yes, the bombing
has destroyed a lot of these terrorist camps, these training camps in
Afghanistan, there weren't any people in them. In other words the
terrorists had all gone by the time we got around to bombing them. Is
that correct?
Rumsfeld: Not quite. But there's no question but that by the first
bomb went down, people left targets that were likely targets. You
know, they're survivors. On the other hand, we've been rooting them
out and finding them and killing them.
Lehrer: And? I mean killing them and, you know, just by -- you mean by
bombing.
Rumsfeld: By bombing and shooting.
Lehrer: Bombing and shooting.
Rumsfeld: You bet.
Lehrer: The Northern Alliance -- are they ready for a major offensive
against the Taliban?
Rumsfeld: I guess we really won't know until they move. But they have
capabilities. We've been providing some assistance. We've got Special
Forces on the ground with them that have been assisting them with
re-supplies, of winter gear and food and ammunition -- targeting, most
importantly, so that we can pinpoint where their opposition is.
And it has significantly improved their capability. At what point
they'll decide that their capability, relative to the opposition, is
such that they're willing to move, as they now are near Mazar-e Sharif
today and yesterday, when they're going to go against Tahlequah, when
they're going to go against Kabul, we'll just have to see.
But I think that -- I think that their circumstance has been notably
strengthened.
Lehrer: You said we'll have to see. We're not involved in making those
decisions with them?
Rumsfeld: Well, we've got handfuls of people on the ground and they've
got thousands. They live there. These are people who have survived.
These are people who have fought each other. These are people who have
been on both sides from time to time. This isn't the civil war where
there's a line and people are like this. This is a way of life for
these people. Sure, we're involved. Sure, we give them advice. The
judgment as to when a field commander for the Northern Alliance says,
"okay, today is the day, we're moving," that's that person's decision.
Now, we can --
Lehrer: He's going to tell you though, right?
Rumsfeld: Oh, you bet and he's going to coordinate with the other
units, we hope, and that's the way the world works. On the other hand,
if we're supplying ammunition and we're supplying supplies and we're
supplying food and we're supplying air cover and air support, we have
the ability to provide it or withhold it.
Lehrer: Have you had assurances, has the United States gotten
assurances from the Northern Alliance that if there is victory,
whether it's in this city or in that city or whatever, that they will
not commit massacres? As you know, the history here is checkered. One
side wins and they massacre the other side and the other side does the
same. What kind of assurances do we have?
Rumsfeld: Well, first we should discuss briefly about the Northern
Alliance. It is not an entity. It is a group of factions or elements,
forces, with commanders that are affiliated in it one way or another
but it's not as though it's the US Army with different divisions.
Second, the commanders compete among themselves to a certain extent
from time to time.
And the short answer is that we will certainly be attentive to that.
There's no question but that there has been a great deal of brutality
in that country. It would be most unfortunate if we provided
assistance, they moved forward, defeated the Taliban and then behaved
like the Taliban.
Lehrer: You told them that? Has the United States told them that?
Rumsfeld: Oh, you bet. You bet.
Lehrer: If we're going to supply you, we're going to help you, you
have to act in a civilized manner in case of victory?
Rumsfeld: That -- that is our strong recommendation and that certainly
it will have an effect on our relationship with you. I think they --
they all want to play a part when this is over. And I think their
behavior will affect the part they play.
Lehrer: Is it still part of your strategy that if there is major
ground troop combat in Afghanistan between the Taliban and the good
guys that those good guys, for the most part on the ground, are not
going to be our people or coalition people, they're going to be
Northern Alliance and other Afghans who are already there?
Rumsfeld: Certainly, the hope is that first of all, we've not ruled
out anything. We have determined -- We are determined to get al Qaeda
and the Taliban out of there and to either -- Any way we can.
How that happens remains to be seen. Our first choice, obviously, is
to -- is to assist the people who have a stake in that country and
encourage them and provide the kinds of assistance so they will be
emboldened to go ahead and seize back their country from the people
who have taken it over and invited in these foreigners, the al Qaeda,
to be there to commit terrorist acts around the globe. That is our
first choice.
Lehrer: Are you getting the find of -- kind of military help you need
from our coalition partners?
Rumsfeld: You bet. It's been wonderful. The offers of assistance have
been terrific. We've got enormous number of countries that have
liaison offices in Tampa with Tommy Franks, the combatant commander
for this activity in that part of the world. He has been working with
people, not just NATO countries but Muslim countries, with Turkey and
with Jordan and all kinds of countries. It's just been terrific.
Lehrer: There have been suggestions that you have, you, Donald
Rumsfeld, have been reluctant to involve a lot of these coalition
military forces in this -- up to this point because you didn't want to
affect the decision-making, you didn't want to have a big meeting
every time you chose another group of targets or whatever and that the
Germans wanted to come in, the French wanted to come in, the Brits
wanted to come in and you've been reluctant to come in. Is that true?
Rumsfeld: No, it's not true. The combatant commander, Tommy Franks,
General Franks, has that issue before him. And what he has done is he
has brought all these people who have offered to participate in.
They're there in Tampa, they're coordinated. The Brits have already
been involved in a variety of different ways. There are a number of
countries that have ships involved with us. There are people supplying
all kinds of assistance, and intelligence sharing, base over flight,
basing rights; and we have not used very many US forces on the ground
as yet.
So if you have a major ground activity you will see a great many
countries involved. The countries -- any country that wants to can
participate today by air. The problem is that the -- it requires
basing rights on the periphery of the area, unless you have aircraft
carriers, which most countries don't.
So getting at that target is very difficult. It is -- we don't have
big ports and we don't have big air bases sitting nearby that we can
use. So, finding the right way to use coalition forces is -- one thing
that we have -- people have offered to replace us elsewhere, for
example, to backfill us in, for example, Bosnia or Kosovo.
Lehrer: Tom Friedman, a columnist for the "New York Times," raised
some feathers a couple of weeks ago when he wrote a column with a
headline on it that said, "We Are Alone." He went through and said,
Mr. and Mrs. America, face it. The people who really care the most
about -- really care at all about the fact of those 5,000 Americans
who died on September 11th are Americans. He went through this list of
these Pakistan doing this on this day and all this sort of thing. Is
he right about that?
Rumsfeld: He's not wrong in the sense that each country in the world
has to make up its own mind as to how concerned it is about this
problem first and given the fact that weapons of mass destruction are
increasingly available in the world, most countries understand that
the danger's big, it's serious, it's real. And it's urgent for us to
address this.
Then they have to look at their own circumstance in their neighborhood
and make a judgment. If we do this, what's the effect of it? Then they
have to look at their capabilities. What can we really do to help?
Now, most of them can help by providing intelligence because they have
law enforcement capabilities. And this problem is across the globe.
Some can help with weapons.
Some have weapons that are usable in this kind of a situation. There
are a number of countries that have very fine trained special forces.
There are a number of countries that have ships. And the support, oral
-- vocal support is also important. I mean, what the president of
Pakistan has done is critically important.
Here's a neighboring country that had relations with Taliban that has
threats of terrorist acts against it and yet he made a decision to
support the United States and has allowed us to participate and to be
involved in his country in certain discreet ways which we are doing.
Lehrer: What do you think of the conventional wisdom that's been in
the -- some of the writing in the last few days, the last several
days, that the support for our military action -- not sympathy for
what happened on September 11th but support for our military action --
is beginning to wane because we have not involved more people in what
we've been doing?
Rumsfeld: Well, I personally think that Secretary Powell and the
president have done a terrific job in forming a set of coalitions,
that is to say, countries that will help a whole group on
intelligence, a whole group on law enforcement, a whole group on
freezing bank accounts, a whole group on providing naval capabilities
or over flight capabilities, the first time in history that NATO has
stepped up and invoked the attack against one as an attack against
all. I think it's been wonderful support that we've received.
And I think that -- I think the impatience you're characterizing is
more with the press than it is with the American people. I think the
American people understand the truth that the president has said, that
this is not going to be fast. It's going to be -- take some time. It
is a totally different kind of a conflict. There's no road map for it.
There's no silver bullet.
Lehrer: I know you've said this before. E.J. Dionne, a writer in the
Washington Post, said wait a minute, Mr. Secretary, it's the
conservative Republican writers, not the press, that has been writing
saying you guys have been too timid. You've been too slow, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera. You don't agree with that?
Rumsfeld: There have been a couple of conservative writers --
Lehrer: And military experts, former military people who have said the
same thing.
Rumsfeld: I don't have much of a chance to watch television or read
papers but most of the military people I've seen on channels have been
very supportive and complimentary about the way it's been -- I mean,
it's been a month.
Lehrer: Yeah.
Rumsfeld: Think of that. I mean, that's amazing -- to have moved that
many people, to fashion that many countries' involvement, to have --
what -- of some 2,000 sorties have been flown over that country, 300
hours of radio programming, leaflets have been put over a million
meals of food have been put down by the United States' military.
It is a lot that has been done, and a lot of Taliban people have been
killed and a lot of al Qaeda people have been killed and a lot of
tanks have been taken out. If there were navies we could sink, we
would sink them. If there were armies we could take on head on, we
would. If there were air forces we could shoot down, we would. They
aren't there.
Lehrer: Personally, when you took this job, when President Bush asked
you to be his secretary of defense, did you ever think that you would
be running a war like this?
Rumsfeld: No one in the world thought we'd be running a war like this.
Imagine, you're sitting in the Pentagon and a plane -- one of our
planes is used as a missile to fly into our building and into the
World Trade Center. It was beyond one's imagination. That plastic
knives and our own commercial aircraft filled with our own people
would be used as the implement of war.
Lehrer: How are you doing, 60 days later?
Rumsfeld: Good.
Lehrer: Personally?
Rumsfeld: Well, I just returned from five or six countries in three
days. So, I could use a little sleep. But I am really impressed with
the way that men and women in the armed forces, the uniformed people
and the civilian people in the Department of Defense have responded to
this.
I'm very pleased with the way other countries have responded. I think
that we've got a good strategy. I think that the President has shown
just enormous good judgment and instinct and decision-making on this.
And will. And that's what it takes. I mean in the last analysis, it
takes determination and steadiness of purpose and will. That's what he
has shown this country and the world.
Lehrer: Mr. Secretary, thank you very much.
Rumsfeld: Thank you.
(end transcript)
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