15 October 2001
Transcript: Powell to Hear Indian, Pakistani Views on Afghanistan
(Says U.S. supports formation of Afghan government for all Afghans)
(3980)
Secretary of State Colin Powell said he is traveling to Pakistan and
India to hear the assessment of their leaders on the situation in
South Asia following the September 11 terrorist attacks in New York
and Washington.
"President Musharraf [of Pakistan] has made some very bold and
courageous steps to come into this coalition of nations that are
determined to fight terrorism. He has been very helpful in providing
us support. The Indian Prime Minister, Mr. Vajpayee, has done likewise
and I'm very pleased that these two nations are aligned with us in
this campaign against terrorism, aligned with the entire civilized
world," Powell said while briefing reporters on the airplane en route
to the Pakistan October 16.
Concerning the future of Afghanistan, Powell said the United States
wants to be in a position to help the Afghan people establish a
government that represents all Afghans, not just one faction. He said
he will consult with Pakistan and India on this matter.
Concerning the dispute over Kashmir, Powell said he will urge India
and Pakistan to engage in dialogue, maintain a line of control and
avoid provocative actions.
Regarding the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, Powell said he welcomed
Israeli decisions on military pullbacks and openings of some areas.
"The violence has gone down as the President noted and now the
Israelis look like they are responding to that," Powell said.
Following is the transcript of the Powell briefing:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE Office of the Spokesman (Islamabad, Pakistan)
For Immediate Release
October 16, 2001
Secretary of State Colin Powell
Press Briefing on Board Plane En Route Pakistan
October 16, 2001
SECRETARY POWELL: Let me start by just mentioning that I was pleased
to receive word during the course of the afternoon that Prime Minister
Sharon in his cabinet meeting has made some decisions with respect to
some pullbacks and some opening of areas and I hope this will be seen
as a continuation of the process we have been trying to get started.
The violence has gone down as the President noted and now the Israelis
look like they are responding to that. So let's hope we have some
movement here, but that's not what we are on this trip for so I will
throw it open to your questions.
QUESTION: Can I just follow up on that? I guess that Arafat is
supposed to be talking to Prime Minister Blair today in London, what
are your expectations from that in light of Mr. Sharon's --
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, I hope that he will. I'm quite sure he will
reaffirm to Prime Minister Blair that he is making every effort, that
Chairman Arafat is making every effort to get the violence down. He
had a test last week when he had the disturbance in Gaza and he
responded to that test by controlling the violence. So I hope he will
reaffirm his commitment to a cease-fire, to the Mitchell plan and do
everything within his power and authority to get the violence down and
keep it down to the lowest level. We would all like to see zero and I
am sure Prime Minister Blair will encourage him in that regard also
and give the United Kingdom's commitment once again to the Mitchell
plan. I'm pleased at how coherent -- the European Union and Russia and
the United Nations and the United States -- all together how
consistent we have been as a team in pushing the Mitchell plan as the
way forward.
QUESTION: Can we talk about this trip, first of all, what do you hope
to achieve on it and/or is the trip itself the message?
SECRETARY POWELL: I think to some extent the trip is the message. I
wanted to come over and meet the President and the Prime Minister in
Pakistan and India respectively, listen to them and get their
assessment of the situation in the region as a result of the events of
11 September. A lot of things have happened. President Musharraf has
made some very bold and courageous steps to come into this coalition
of nations that are determined to fight terrorism. He has been very
helpful in providing us support. The Indian Prime Minister, Mr.
Vajpayee, has done likewise and I'm very pleased that these two
nations are aligned with us in this campaign against terrorism,
aligned with the entire civilized world. This gives me a chance to
listen to them, hear their assessment, hear their concerns, see how we
can be helpful. I'm sure in both countries we will have the chance to
talk about the future of Afghanistan. As you've been hearing and as
you've been reporting, however things turn out there, we want to be in
a position to help the people of Afghanistan to finally be governed by
a government that represents all the people of Afghanistan and not
just one party or one group. I want to hear the assessment of these
two distinguished leaders and their associates, their perspective on
this and any advice they have for us. There are a wide number of, a
large number of bilateral issues that I will be discussing with each
country and its leaders.
QUESTION: Would you say -- they're both in the coalition, they are
both aligned?
SECRETARY POWELL: Both are supporting us -- .
QUESTION: But they're not with each other, they are at complete odds
with each other, how concerned are you that that might interfere over
one major issue?
SECRETARY POWELL: The issue of Kashmir is always a contentious issue
between the two nations and I'm sure I will have a chance to discuss
the Kashmir issue with both of them and be able to reaffirm that we
believe that dialogue on Kashmir is important. We believe in
maintenance of the line of control, exercise of restraint is also
very, very important, the avoidance of provocative acts, which could
lead to a conflict of any kind. And I hope we will all have that as a
mutual goal in our discussions.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, since the events, the sanctions against both
countries have been lifted --
SECRETARY POWELL: Some have.
QUESTION: Are you in any way going to discuss that, for example, what
the limits might be particularly with respect to military sales to
Pakistan. Is that on the plate?
SECRETARY POWELL: I'm sure we will discuss it. Right now there are not
huge proposals or programs that Pakistan has expressed an interest in.
Those really aren't for action because if they had some, it wouldn't
be for action right now because of other sanctions that are in place
with respect to proliferation activities. So I'm more than happy to
discuss anything that the President would wish to discuss, but that's
not any area I think we would really have any results.
QUESTION: I guess what I'm really asking is that do you have a sense
that military supply or the resumption of a military supply
relationship in on their plate?
SECRETARY POWELL: I will wait and see. I don't want to pre-judge what
might be on their agenda. I'm sure it will come up. There are some
things we can look at, others we cannot. I'm sure it will come up also
in India. We think it is useful to have military to military relations
with both of these countries, giving them the opportunity to train
their officers, their military leaders in our schools and for us to
send some of our folks to their schools as well. There are many forms
of military to military cooperation, seminars, defense groups between
our side and their side, visits of our senior leaders. I will be
pursuing that and I'm sure equipment may well come up during the
course of the conversation.
QUESTION: How concerned are you about the level of anti-American
violence in India and Pakistan right now, in particular, the viability
--
SECRETARY POWELL: Well, if anything I think it's shown a great deal of
viability. Not only did he make -- President Musharraf -- make a bold
decision right after the 11th of September, but he has stuck to that
decision and made even more courageous decisions since then. So he
certainly feels that the government is secure. Even though they have
the demonstrations and they get quite a bit of attention, and I regret
any loss of life and I regret that there are those who do not
understand the tragic nature of what happened the 11th of September
and demonstrated against our response to this crime, those
demonstrations seen to be fairly modest for a country the size of
Pakistan. They seem to be not anything that is beyond the ability of
the government to manage, control, and to let people have the
opportunity to demonstrate.
QUESTION: How concerned are you about your personal security and the
fact the opposition and the Taliban have called for strikes tomorrow
because of your presence?
SECRETARY POWELL: I feel quite safe.
QUESTION: Secretary Powell, could you talk a little bit more about the
government you foresee in Afghanistan, how that will happen, how you
foresee that happening, and what you foresee the role of the Unites
States to be.
SECRETARY POWELL: Hard to say what will happen. I mean, there's a lot
of pressure on the Taliban regime right now. They have isolated
themselves. They have found that none of the nations surrounding them
will be supporting that kind of regime in the future.
So they are under a lot of pressure and unless they do something to
relieve that pressure, I suspect it's going to cause a change. What we
are doing is staying in touch with all the various elements in Afghan
society, all of the political elements, the King, the Northern
Alliance and many others, staying in touch with all of them and we
will also be discussing this with our friends at the United Nations. I
spoke twice in the last three days with Kofi Annan about the
situation.
Ambassador Richard Haass, who is the Director of Policy Planning for
the State Department, will be my personal representative examining
alternatives with the UN and other nations directly, bilaterally with
other nations. Richard will be going up there early this week to talk
to some of the UN officials. Mr. Brahimi, who is the Secretary
General's personal representative in Pakistan, has been traveling and
he'll be in Washington later this week. So we're going to stay in
touch with all the parties. We're going to work with the UN and others
to start to develop some ideas as to what we might have to do and want
to do if there is a change.
Clearly, it will require the international community to get involved
and clearly the United Nations, it seems to me, will be playing a
leading role. No one government will be able to drive what happens in
post-Taliban Afghanistan with respect to the new political regime or
the new government who might come in. I think the UN will be playing a
key role. We will also, in that same light -- to continue your
question -- we're also talking to our friends in the European Union
and bilaterally with other countries as to what kind of development
programs might be required to help these people who have suffered so
greatly over the last 20 to 30 years.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, how much influence will Pakistan have over
the future shape of Afghanistan, over the government of Afghanistan,
will they have a veto over the form of government that takes place
there?
SECRETARY POWELL: If we truly are interested in a post-Taliban
Afghanistan that represents all of the interests of the various
factions and elements of Afghan society, then I think we have to
listen to them, and no one nation to have a veto over them. So its
those nations who are in the neighborhood, of course, that perhaps
share a more direct interest in the outcome as opposed to someone
further away. But I don't think anyone would suggest any longer that
they should have a veto over Afghanistan with respect to the future
government.
QUESTION: Will you talk to President Musharraf about how you can get
nuclear arms safer?
SECRETARY POWELL: I'm sure that we will have a chance to talk about
all the issues with respect to nuclear weapons: safety, testing,
proliferation, all those issues that are well known to you.
QUESTION: (Inaudible).
SECRETARY POWELL: I know it has been reported in the Pakistani press
and the Indian press, but I have not heard directly from the
government yet. I'm sure I might well hear about it tomorrow.
QUESTION: Could you re-pose the question please?
SECRETARY POWELL: The question was, the REBITA trust, r-e-b-i-t-a,
which we have listed, a charitable trust set up some years ago by the
Pakistani government but it does have direct links to the terrorist
organization Al Qaeda, linked to Al Qaeda, not because of its other
worthy charitable activities, we added it to the OFAC list, the second
tranche last week.
QUESTION: Are you assuming that the Taliban will not be any party to
what happens after Al Qaeda is wrapped up? Are there any conditions
under which the Taliban might be part of a national coalition?
SECRETARY POWELL: I'm not assuming anything. We are staying in touch
with all of the parties and we will see what develops. The current
Taliban leadership to me seems to have destroyed its country
effectively and would not have a serious claim to be part of the new
government. But there are many people within the Taliban movement who
will still be there. They are not all leaving the country, so I hope
we will be able, the international community will be able, to put
together something that will appeal to all of the Afghan people. I
don't think of the Taliban party as a political entity, it doesn't
seem likely to me that it would have any kind of (inaudible) in the
last five years.
QUESTION: There's been a sense that the military operations have been
waiting for the diplomacy of the Northern Alliance wouldn't move
because the Pakistanis are upset. Is it one of your objectives on this
trip to advance the ability of military operations to evolve?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, I don't think anything is hung up. I think that
my colleagues at the Pentagon and General Franks and other activities
and agencies have been unfolding the campaign plan in a very
deliberate way. It started out with a fairly high, fairly intense
bombing campaign going after their defense systems and it will change
shape, as I think Mr. Rumsfeld said on many occasions, it will change
shape. Sometimes you see things, sometimes you won't. So I'm not aware
of anything that's hung up as a result of anything the Pakistanis have
said to us. It's quite encouraging to see the change in thinking in
the Pakistani government in the last several weeks with respect to the
Taliban. They've come to the judgment so many of us have that the
Taliban is no longer part of the future of Afghanistan.
QUESTION: The Indians are unhappy, they felt that they came in early
with a blank check vis-à-vis the anti-terrorism coalition and there
was hardly any acknowledgement of this in Washington.
SECRETARY POWELL: I've acknowledged it at every opportunity. I stood
out in front of the State Department with my colleague Foreign
Minister Jaswat Singh two weeks ago. I stood in front of the State
Department and right there expressed the appreciation of the United
States Government for the speed with which they came out and all of
the support that they have offered. I will certainly make that point
directly with the Prime Minister in two days time and try to convey in
every way I can that we are deeply appreciative of the fact that the
Indian government came forward quickly in an unconditional manner, I
think is the word they used. We are very appreciative of that and
maybe in the course of this trip we'll find specific things to talk
about put more meat to that offer.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, what happens if the Taliban implodes before
this transitional authority or whatever you want to call it is in
place?
SECRETARY POWELL: I can't answer that question directly. I don't know
whether -- I can't be a fortuneteller -- I don't know what's going to
happen to the Taliban. I don't know how much resilience it has. I
don't know how long they're going to be there. Obviously you can't
think about the transitional effort or something coming in until
you're pretty clear that that which is there is going out.
QUESTION: So you're not clear about that?
SECRETARY POWELL: I have no way of knowing. I have no way of seeing
the future at this point, getting ready for the future. Really what it
is is contingency -- what we're doing really is contingency planning,
getting ready for the possibility that sometime in the near future
there could be a need to respond to the collapse of the government --
if one can call that evil regime a government.
QUESTION: But are you concerned that the military action might be
outpacing the political action.
SECRETARY POWELL: That the military action might be outpacing the
diplomatic action? Not at this point. As you've noticed in the last
several days, we've picked up the beat with what we may have to do in
a post-Taliban world and that's why I've got my staff hard at work
working with other members of the Administration. We've discussed this
with the President and he has given us the charge to begin consulting
and to make plans.
QUESTION: Are there any elements in the Taliban who have made
overtures to the United States Government to talk about the
possibility of being included in a post-Taliban or the next phase
including the Foreign Minister there are reports that --
SECRETARY POWELL: Not that I'm aware of. He hasn't called me. That's
all that counts. I have not. I have not.
QUESTION: Why would you describe Musharraf as bold and courageous? Why
would you use those words?
SECRETARY POWELL: Here's a President who saw this tragedy unfold and
has shown tolerance for the Taliban and who we called -- first we got
in touch with the intelligence director the day after September 11. On
the 13th, I called President Musharraf and I had a good conversation
with him. I had talked to him a couple of times before so we weren't
strangers. I said you need to understand, Mr. President, and I'm
saying this to you in all friendship, that we had a catastrophe here
and we are going to respond to this catastrophe and we need to know
whether you're going to be on our side of it or not.
And it took him 24 hours to ponder that question, to consult with his
leaders and to make his own decision, a sovereign country making their
own decision -- not taking instructions from anybody. And he did that.
He came back to us and said we will work with you. We gave him some
things we'd like to see them do and he agreed to all those things and
considering where he lives, his neighborhood, what his government had
been doing in the recent past, I thought it was a bold and courageous
decision. He did it knowing there would be demonstrations. He did it
knowing there would be opposition. And I can think of no other way to
characterize that kind of political decision other than bold and it
was courageous in light of the circumstances.
QUESTION: Were you saying earlier that the US is going to resume
military to military exchanges?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, what I said is I am willing to discuss whatever
they want to put on the agenda. If they want to talk about mil-to-mil,
we'll talk about it. It started out as a question of arms sales,
that's still prohibited by sanctions. It doesn't mean we can't talk
about other kinds of --
QUESTION: Is that something we're open to resuming? Military to
military exchanges?
SECRETARY POWELL: I have always been a supporter of military to
military exchanges, staff exchanges, commander exchanges. One of the
finest programs we've ever had in the foreign policy field is the IMET
program (International Military Education and Training) where we bring
foreign students to our institutions. I still remember fondly my days
34 years ago at the Command and General Staff College and there were I
think close to 100 foreign students in my class. About six of them
became Chiefs of Mission, Chiefs of Defense. I knew this major, who
was a major when I was a major. We essentially grew up together. That
kind of exposure early in their careers serves long-term American
interests. The year or two spent in the United States looking at our
society, understanding the nature of a military democratic society, I
think this is a sound investment in the future and we shouldn't let
ups and downs in the relationships, in the relations that come along
from time to time destroy this long-term investment.
QUESTION: Is that something that requires congressional....
SECRETARY POWELL: Let me check. I think we are going to do something.
QUESTION: You know about this story that we had a chance to get Omar
on the first night? By Sy Hirsch in the New Yorker.
SECRETARY POWELL: Who said that? Sy Hirsch? No comment.
QUESTION: Thinking that Saddam was going to fall any day, and in the
end he didn't, are you ever concerned that the Taliban can hold on
indefinitely as well?
SECRETARY POWELL: Yes, that's a concern. We started going after the Al
Qaeda and I just can't see that far. Even though it's been talked
about for years and years, we were never going to Baghdad. There was
no plan to go to Baghdad.
QUESTION: Yeah but the implicit goal was to bring it down.
SECRETARY POWELL: We hoped he would fall.
QUESTION: Yeah, but the same thing with the Taliban. You don't have a
mandate. You say you're not going.
SECRETARY POWELL: I can't see into the future unless I'm the one doing
the future. In Iraq, I knew what I was doing -- kicking the army out
of Kuwait. But we never, notwithstanding all the speculation, the
stories of the last ten years, nobody every said to invade Baghdad.
QUESTION: Do you ever feel spooky about the similarities?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, I think they are quite different. I haven't
spent a lot of time comparing the similarities.
QUESTION: No lessons from Iraq in dealing with this situation?
SECRETARY POWELL: I'm sure you can always come up with lessons. I just
haven't done it yet. Iraq is Iraq -- a wasted society ten years.
They're sad. They're contained. They're still fiddling with weapons of
mass destruction.
QUESTION: Is Iraq next?
SECRETARY POWELL: No, we're going from here to -- (laughter). The
President decided this a month ago and we've been following the
President's guidance ever since.
QUESTION: What did he decide?
SECRETARY POWELL: His decision was that in this campaign, we are
focusing in the first instance on Al Qaeda as it exists throughout the
world, especially its headquarters in Afghanistan headed by Osama bin
Laden, but also (inaudible) the same time that it is terrorism around
the world that we are after. That's why we put the RIRA on the list of
terrorist organizations, the FARC, the ELN, JPN most recently. And he
has said that those who haven will pay the consequences of being
havens.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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