19 October 2001
Transcript: Pentagon Briefing on Afghanistan Oct. 18
(SecDef Rumsfeld, JCS chair Myers briefed) (6730)
The U.S.-led anti-terrorist military campaign -- now in its second
week -- has made progress in destroying or severely degrading Taliban
infrastructure, setting conditions for future military operations, and
furthering humanitarian relief efforts, says Joint Chiefs of Staff
Chairman Richard Myers.
Myers, an Air Force general, said at an October 18 Pentagon briefing
that airstrikes were conducted October 17 against more than a dozen
target areas in Afghanistan, including terrorist camps and forces,
Taliban military facilities, airfields, troop deployment and garrison
areas, and command and control centers.
The coalition airstrikes were led by aircraft carrier-based warplanes,
a few F-15 Eagle strike fighters from regional airbases, some
long-range bombers, and AC-130 special operations gunships, he said.
In addition, four more C-17 cargo jets dropped approximately 53,000
humanitarian daily ration packets to Afghan refugees, he said. The
U.S. humanitarian food effort to date has accounted for 450,000 food
ration packets being airdropped to starving Afghans, he said.
Myers said the U.S. military dropped leaflets in two separate
locations in northeastern Afghanistan, as well as continuing aerial
radio news broadcasts.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said during brief remarks that the
coalitions formed to battle global terrorism are not showing signs of
unraveling. "There is no single coalition in this effort. This
campaign involves a number of flexible coalitions that will change and
evolve as we proceed through the coming period," he said.
Rumsfeld also said that thus far there are no accurate estimates of
casualties from Afghanistan. He said nearly every estimate coming from
the Taliban has been exaggerated.
Following is the Pentagon transcript.
(begin transcript)
United States Department of Defense
Presenter: Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
Thursday, October 18, 2001 - 2:00 p.m. EDT
DoD News Briefing - Secretary Rumsfeld and Gen. Myers
(Also participating General Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff. Slides and videos shown in this briefing are on the
Web at http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2001/g011018-D-6570C.html)
Rumsfeld: Good afternoon.
The military campaign continued yesterday. Chairman Myers will provide
some details on battle damage. We continue to make progress in
striking al Qaeda and Taliban targets across Afghanistan in the north
and in the south, and in creating conditions that we believe will be
necessary for sustained anti-terror operations in the country.
We are grateful to many nations for contributing to this effort. I'll
be meeting with the Italian minister of defense this afternoon to
thank him for his country's support and to discuss the way ahead. The
support of allies like Italy and other friendly countries around the
world, certainly including the NATO nations and the AWACS that's now
flying over the United States is critical to the success of what will
be a long and sustained campaign to liquidate terrorist networks that
threaten all of our people.
From time to time, I see references in the press to "the coalition" --
singular. And let me reiterate that there is no single coalition in
this effort. This campaign involves a number of flexible coalitions
that will change and evolve as we proceed through the coming period.
Let me reemphasize that the mission determines the coalition, and the
coalition must not determine the mission. As President Bush has said,
the mission is to take the battle to the terrorists, to their
networks, and to those states and organizations that harbor and assist
terrorist networks.
A month from now, I expect someone somewhere might report that a
particular nation is not doing something or has stopped doing
something, and the speculation could be "Is the coalition coming apart
or unraveling?"
Well, let me make clear: No single coalition has "raveled," therefore,
it's unlikely to unravel. It is, as I say, a series of efforts that
will involve different nations at different times doing different
things -- some will be open, some will be less open. As far as we're
concerned, that's fine. We want their help, and we're much more
interested in their assistance than we are in exactly how they do it.
Some nations, as you know, are contributing to the military effort.
Others are helping in the financial or economic, diplomatic fronts.
Some are assisting by filling roles that we otherwise would have to
fill.
Tomorrow I'll have a chance in Missouri to visit with some of the men
and women in uniform and to thank them at Whiteman Air Force Base and
the home of the 509th bomber wing that's flying B-2 missions over
Afghanistan almost on a daily basis. Each time we report on the
progress of the war, we are talking about the accomplishments of young
men and women, brave Americans who each day risk their lives so that
the rest of us can live in freedom. The American people are certainly
proud of the pilots, the crews, the teams on the ground that support
these aircraft and these missions, as well as all the men and women
who are involved here at home and overseas. We're grateful for their
courage, their sacrifice, and I look forward to having a chance to
thank some of them tomorrow afternoon.
General Myers.
Gen. Myers: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.
As the secretary said, we're well into the second week of the military
portion of our campaign against terrorism, and our operations continue
today. We've made progress in destroying or degrading the Taliban
infrastructure and setting the conditions for future operations, as
well as furthering humanitarian relief efforts.
Yesterday, U.S. forces struck in more than a dozen target areas that
included terrorist camps and forces; Taliban military facilities,
including missile, vehicle and armor maintenance and storage sites;
airfields; troop deployment and garrison areas; and command and
control facilities.
We used tactical aircraft, primarily carrier based, although we did
use a small number of F-15Es that operated from facilities in the
region. And we employed a few long-range bombers. We also used the
AC-130 gunship again yesterday. The carrier, USS Theodore Roosevelt,
recently arrived on station in the region, and her aircraft
participated in yesterday's strikes.
We completed four more C-17 humanitarian airdrop missions yesterday,
delivering approximately 53,000 rations, and bringing the total number
of rations to over 450,000. And we dropped leaflets in two separate
locations in northeastern Afghanistan, and we continued our Commando
Solo radio broadcast missions in conjunction with yesterday's
operations.
We have three video clips to show today. In the first clip, we see a
headquarters building at the Kabul deployment area in central
Afghanistan. This facility consists of buildings, training and firing
ranges, vehicle maintenance and storage for central Taliban corps. As
you can see, the weapon hits the center of the headquarters building.
The second clip shows an armored vehicle in the open and the Kandahar
barracks in southern Afghanistan, one of the training facilities and
garrisons for the Taliban forces.
And the final clip shows a Taliban security post in southern
Afghanistan. This is an example of a target within an engagement zone,
as we discussed yesterday, and the target, a tank, is in a defensive
position and is struck with a single weapon.
Finally, I'd like to talk directly to the troops that, as the
secretary said, are supporting this effort so well, and to the
American people.
I firmly believe that this is the most important tasking the U.S.
military has been handed since the second World War. And what's at
stake here is no less than our freedom to exist as an American people.
So there's no option but success. We owe it to our families, and to
the families of peace-loving nations to prevail in this fight.
So, to every soldier, sailor, airman, Marine and Coast Guardsman and
DOD civilian, and our allies and friends, I say let's stay ready,
let's stay focused. Our victory will be the nation's victory; in a
sense, it will be the world's victory, or for sure, those who love
freedom.
We're ready to take your questions. Tony?
Q: Mr. Secretary, are unmanned but armed Predators now flying over
Afghanistan? And if so, is this a kind of a watershed toward a future
possible larger unmanned aerial weapon?
Rumsfeld: At the moment, we've decided not to discuss exactly
everything we're doing with respect to Afghanistan. There is no
question but that over recent years, a number of countries have
interested themselves in unmanned aerial vehicles and that they have
taken on a variety of roles. We're all aware that there was a flight
from the United States to Australia by the unmanned Global Hawk that
completed that flight successfully. They, for the most part, are
engaged in intelligence gathering, as we all know. And it seems to me
that you might be right that as we go forward, we may find that there
are a variety of unmanned vehicles of different types in different
mediums that will be used by militaries for a variety of purposes that
previously had been solely conducted by human beings.
Q: Mr. Secretary, you've said several times since this began that
Special Operations forces are likely to play a role in this conflict.
Could you discuss a little bit what it is about the Special Operations
that brings something unique to this conflict at this juncture?
Rumsfeld: Well, yes. If you think of what one's options are, they're
relatively limited. The al Qaeda and the Taliban and terrorist
networks anywhere in the world are without armies and navies and air
forces; therefore, one cannot deal directly with those capabilities.
Terrorist networks for the most part even lack countries, although
countries do harbor and facilitate and assist them. Therefore, when --
one has to ask the question, "How do you deal with that?"
We know we can't deal with it through defense. The only defense
against terrorism is offense. You have to simply take the battle to
them because everything -- every advantage accrues to the attacker in
the case of a terrorist. The choice of when to do it, the choice of
what instruments to use and the choice of where to do it, all of those
things are advantages of the attacker.
That means that we simply must go and find them.
How do you do that? You don't do it with conventional capabilities,
you do it with unconventional capabilities. And therefore, the United
States and other countries in the coalition simply have to fashion
ways to use the kinds of technologies that we have and the kinds of
capabilities that we've developed over years to accomplish the task.
And that means it's going to be a variety of different things, as I
say, some that are open and some that are less open.
Q: So you don't find them from the air. In other words, the activities
that we've seen so far have been strictly from the air.
Rumsfeld: There are things you can find from the air. You can find
clusters of forces. You can find, as General Myers just pointed out,
certain types of weaponry, tanks or what have you. You can find
buildings that are used as headquarters or are storage areas for
artillery and the like.
But you cannot really do sufficient damage in that regard,
particularly in a country that has been at war for ages and ages, and
has been pummeled. So what you have to do is you have to find ways to
take all of these capabilities -- financial, economic, political,
diplomatic, military, overt and covert -- and create enough pressure
that they have to move, that they can't -- that they're in a situation
that's uncomfortable, that's undesirable; it's either dangerous, or
the people there don't want them there, or the people that were there
with them are no longer with them. And it will be a series of small
incremental things that will alter the circumstance for those folks,
and they'll end up having to do things differently than they've been
doing it, and they'll have to stay on the run. And ultimately we'll
find them.
Gen. Myers: Could I just --
Q: Mr. Secretary, could I just follow up on that, please?
Gen. Myers: Let me just emphasize a point here the secretary has made.
We have said earlier that we're going to use the full spectrum of our
military capability, and the trick is trying to match capabilities to
the effects that we want to have on the war on terrorism. And that's
something that General Franks considers, you know, every day, all day
long, trying to find the right capability. And that's what it's all
about.
Q: Mr. Secretary --
Gen. Myers: And so it can be very conventional, like you're seeing now
a more conventional sort of thing; it can be unconventional, as the
secretary said. It's going to be this wide spectrum. And on any given
day, it could be one or the other or both.
Q: Mr. Secretary, we were told yesterday by a deputy director of
operations for the Joint Staff that the aerial -- the air tasking
order is still being sent back to Central Command in Florida, that the
range of targets is being set there before it's being sent out to the
air controllers.
And yet you have told us that you were trying to streamline the
operation. And it does seem to many of us that maybe it's cumbersome,
and maybe the business of the command structure is not working. Are
you going to move Central Command or some authority closer to fray to
have decisions made faster and closer to the scene?
Rumsfeld: General Myers and I have talked about that with General
Franks. General Franks is comfortable where he is at the present time.
He is planning at some point to possibly visit some aspects or
elements of the forces in the region and some of the important people
who are cooperating with us there. But at the present time, there's no
chance -- there's no plan to permanently move his headquarters from
Florida to the region.
Gen. Myers: The only thing I would say to that is I think certainly as
far as we're concerned, we've got the technology that they are linked
very well with the in-theater forces and the command- and-control
elements that are in theater. And I know of no instance where that has
slowed anything down.
Rumsfeld: I agree, and I think the characterization that some have
suggested, that you're reflecting, that it's cumbersome, I think has
not proven to be the case.
Gen. Myers: And I would just only add that we do have one military
commander that has the responsibility, and that's General Franks down
at CENTCOM, and everybody understands that.
Q: Mr. Secretary, in 1993, U.S. Army Rangers were attacked by forces
in Somalia. Now, eight years after the fact, is there evidence that
that was -- that there was a connection between that event and Osama
bin Laden and the al Qaeda network? Are there still al Qaeda forces in
Somalia, and would Somalia be a possible future area where you might
be forced to take action?
Rumsfeld: Well, Dick, calibrate me if I'm wrong. But I think that
there is considerable speculation that al Qaeda might have been
involved. There is no question -- but I can't prove that. I'd have to
go back and check and see. But I've read the same speculation.
There is no question but that al Qaeda is still involved in Somalia.
And we don't discuss future operations.
Q: Mr. Secretary, as you break down the Taliban's military capability,
and other parts of the U.S. government are looking for a way to create
something, and you keep referring to the "post-Taliban era", is the
Pentagon prepared to continue to go about its business even if there
is not any kind of organized power-sharing organization in
Afghanistan? You're going to continue to pursue al Qaeda, Osama bin
Laden, regardless whether or not there is chaos on the ground in
Afghanistan? Can you help us with your vision of --
Rumsfeld: Well, of course, that is kind of a hypothetical question
assuming the worst. First of all, I don't know how you would
characterize how Afghanistan has been doing in the last five years.
So you have to realize what the base is. It was a nation that was
pummeled by the Soviet Union. It's a nation that's been in civil war.
It's a nation where people are starving. It's a nation where much of
major cities are rubble. It's a nation where there has been
substantial out-migration within the country and outside the country.
So, to suggest that it was a happy situation, of course, would not be
correct, as you know well.
The situation on the ground is what it is. Our task is to go in and
get the terrorist networks and end that threat from Afghanistan.
That's the Department of Defense. The interest of the United States,
of course, is much broader. We're a nation that cares about human
beings. It's not an accident that we were the largest food provider in
that country prior to September 11th, and there's no question but that
the United States would have an interest in helping a post- Taliban
Afghanistan because we do care about the Afghan people.
How that might shake out, how it might evolve, whether or not the U.N.
or some other multinational organization might have a role, I have no
idea. And those are things that would have to be thought through, and
thoughtful, caring people will be involved in that.
Q: Would it be safe to say that your mission, as you define it, is
going to continue to focus and continue to operate regardless of what
the post-Taliban world looks like? You're going after your targets
whether there is a coalition government, power sharing, or chaos.
You're focused like a laser on what you need to do.
Rumsfeld: I don't know that I understand the question, but there's no
question but the president has asked us, the government of the United
States and our friends and allies around the world to go after
terrorist networks, and we intend to do that. There's also no question
but the situation in Afghanistan has been a terribly difficult one for
years and years and years. And there's also no question but that the
United States and other nations would want to try to make that better
and do what we could to assist them at that point where Taliban and al
Qaeda have been dealt with. And I don't know how I can answer it
better than that.
Q: General, yesterday the admiral said that Northern Alliance troops
were very close to taking over the airfield there in Mazer-e-Sharif.
Can you give us an update on that? And can you tell us if U.S. forces
have directly attacked Northern Alliance -- or areas where they're
facing Taliban troops?
(Pause.)
Rumsfeld: I thought you said "General," didn't you?
Q: I said "General."
Rumsfeld: Oh, good! Oh!
I'm the secretary, you're the general. Right.
Gen. Myers: Finally got that straight. I've been confused!
I think we've indicated in previous briefings -- and some of the
targets that I read out talked about the Taliban forces that we're
going after, and some of those are arrayed against the Northern
Alliance. So the answer to the second part of your question is yes.
Q: Okay, if I could follow up. Why is it taking so long, do you think,
for the Northern Alliance to maybe have success there in Mazar-e
Sharif? And are the U.S. forces helping at all?
Gen. Myers: Why is it taking so long? I mean, they've been at it for
years. It seems like they've made a little bit more success -- at
least we hear they have. But information is imperfect, and that's one
of the issues that we have with this whole effort; the intelligence is
imperfect. It is in most conflicts; it is particularly in this
conflict. So we get scraps and we get bits, and we think they're
making progress. And beyond that, I'd rather not comment.
Rumsfeld: I don't know that I would say 10 or 11 days is long.
Q: General, there were some reports coming from Iran saying that
ground troops were -- have been moved to Afghanistan, into
Afghanistan. Can you tell us if you have some information about it?
And also, how important do you think has been in this war the
artificial intelligence and how it's going to help to modernize and
transform the U.S. military in the future?
Gen. Myers: Well, in terms of troops, I'll just go back to what I've
continued to say. We are prepared to use the full spectrum of our
military capabilities. Obviously, that's not just bombers, that's just
not carrier-based aircraft, that's other assets as well. We talked
earlier about special forces. So that's one piece.
The other piece is that in terms of the ongoing operation, I'm not
going to comment specifically on what we're doing because if it has
the potential to bring harm to our forces that are engaged, I'm just
not going to do that.
On the second part, I think, obviously, artificial intelligence, it
will be important as we transform. I mean, I think that's pretty
obvious. I don't think we want to go into much more on that.
Q: Mr. Secretary, I wonder if you can give us an update on the
Pentagon's anthrax vaccine program? The sole manufacture in Michigan
hasn't produced vaccine for quite some time, and it could be months
before they can start producing again. You have a minimal amount of
vaccine, and you're only doing a certain number of troops, small
numbers of troops.
And finally, last week there was a petition sent to FDA by military
officers, and others, calling for them to pull the license and destroy
the stockpiles of the vaccine.
Can this program be saved, do you think, or are you going to look at
alternatives to the vaccine?
Rumsfeld: We're going to try and save it. There have been other
efforts that have failed over a period of years. And it may or may not
be savable, but I met this morning with Pete Aldridge and David Chu,
and we discussed this at some length. And they or their
representatives are going to be meeting with people from HHS and
Secretary Thompson's office and try to fashion some sort of an
arrangement whereby we give one more crack at getting the job done
with that outfit. It's the only outfit that -- in this country that
has anything underway, and it's not very well underway, as you point
out. We're trying to fashion a way that the -- it's a combination of
things, but they have not been approved by the FDA, as I understand
it. They do not have what looks to be -- well, I shouldn't be
characterizing a private entity that way, but things have not been
going swimmingly for them. And what we're trying to do is figure out a
way where we might get some help so that they might improve their
performance.
Q: Can you give us a sense of what the options are here to speed up
the approval process? What do we -- what's the sense?
Rumsfeld: Until they come back after meeting with the folks at HHS and
meeting with the folks at the company and thinking through some ways
that the company might have a better prospect of success, I'd be
disinclined to --
Q: Okay, what about alternatives? Are you looking at buying more
antibiotics or --
Rumsfeld: I think you'd have to talk to Dr. Chu.
Q: General Myers.
Q: Mr. Secretary, on the subject of anthrax --
Q: Mr. Secretary, could I ask about the level of damage done so far to
al Qaeda itself in these military strikes? We hear a lot about the
Taliban, but what about what the military strikes have accomplished
where al Qaeda's concerned? And there are also some reports today of a
senior lieutenant to bin Laden who may have been been killed in the
strikes. Is that accurate?
Rumsfeld: Well, is it accurate that a senior lieutenant of al Qaeda
might have been killed? Yes. It might have happened. Do I know it of
certain knowledge? No, I've not been on the ground. But it would be a
good thing for the world.
Q: Mr. Secretary --
Q: And the level of damage to al Qaeda more broadly?
Rumsfeld: It's tough to say. Do you want to?
Gen. Myers: No, I -- the only thing I would say is that the emphasis
at first here, as we've talked about, is to set the conditions for
exactly, Tammy, what you're asking about, and that is to take out the
terrorist network. Where we see emerging targets that we think are al
Qaeda, we go after them. And of course, we have done some of that with
their training camps and so forth. We have undoubtedly -- there have
been some al Qaeda personnel no doubt caught up in some of those
raids.
In terms of the major personalities, 10, 15, 20? As the secretary
says, we don't know for sure. But what we're doing today is trying to
set the conditions for our efforts against al Qaeda. So it'll come.
Q: General?
Q: General? Does the Pentagon have a clear idea of the size of the
Taliban's arsenal of Stinger and other shoulder-firing missiles?
And up to this point, do you know if any of those missiles have been
fired during the current operation?
Gen. Myers: I would say that we don't have a perfectly clear idea of
how many they have. We have a pretty good estimate, and we've said in
the past that it's been in the low hundreds, 2(00) to 300. Whether or
not they've been fired or not, I do not know.
Q: How successful, sir, have you been at targeting the 55th Brigade,
which is the part of al Qaeda devoted to strictly to Taliban support?
Gen. Myers: Again, specific bomb damage assessment for units on the
ground is yet to be determined for those kind of units. So I'd just --
I hesitate to say how successful we've been.
Rumsfeld: I will say this. We do see snippets of information,
intelligence information, that suggests that the level of effect has
improved in recent days, and that we're seeing some people as -- part
of Taliban starting to decide that they'd prefer not to be part of
Taliban. And we have seen some movement of what we believe to be the
al Qaeda forces, and they have been specifically targeted while they
were moving.
Q: Sir, you call this the most significant war since World War II. Can
you expand on why you reached that conclusion and why you chose now to
convey that message to the troops?
Gen. Myers: Well, I've conveyed it before to the troops, and I've said
things like that before. But I thought this forum, since this gets
pretty good distribution -- that I would say it again, because I think
it's important for our troops to understand, if they're in uniform
today, it's different than being in uniform any other time, I think,
except for that World War II period, because this is clearly -- as
September 11th has showed, it's a direct threat on the United States
and, for that matter, all peoples who love freedom and live in
freedom.
They passed the weapons of mass destruction barrier on September 11th
for sure, at least in my mind. So -- and it's global in scale, and
it's going to be a tough fight.
So I think, at least in my 36 years of wearing this uniform, this is
the most significant task I've ever been asked to undertake, and I
think for our country it is as well.
Q: Sir, as I understand it, the limitations of these briefings are
that you discuss not today's operations nor tomorrow's, but previous
-- yesterday and previous. Am I correct about that?
Rumsfeld: Uh-oh, I have a feeling something's going to happen next.
Gen. Myers: I think the hook -- well, I think we just got the -- the
hook is being set.
Rumsfeld: I don't know. I mean --
Q: You give me too much credit, sir. My question is, has there been
yesterday or previously U.S. ground forces in Afghanistan in this
operation?
Rumsfeld: We have decided that until we have an activity that is
significant and noticeable, that it's probably not useful to get into
those kinds of questions, because they can change from time to time.
Q: What about forward air controllers?
Rumsfeld: The answer can change from time to time.
Q: Forward air controllers, Mr. Secretary, on the ground.
Rumsfeld: I'll stick with my answer. I liked it.
Q: Mr. Secretary, on the subject of --
Q: Mr. Secretary, I wanted to ask you to go back a minute. You had
said something about that you had seen the movement of al Qaeda
troops. Can you expand on that --
Rumsfeld: We believe.
Q: Well, you're --
Rumsfeld: It's hard from the air, but we believe.
Q: Well, what do you -- all right. What have you seen, or what do you
think possibly may be going on? Where are they moving? And I guess the
ultimate question, then, is, if you do believe that's happening, if
you do believe there are Taliban defections, what would you advise
Taliban or al Qaeda forces who don't want to be killed and who don't
want to defect to the Northern Alliance, what should they do?
Rumsfeld: Well, we're giving them some suggestions in leaflets, and
radio, and other ways, that it would be highly desirable for them to
not be involved with al Qaeda and not be involved with the foreign
invaders and not be involved with terrorists and not be involved with
the Taliban leadership that has made the country so hospitable for
those folks. And what happens is, you get bits of information as to
where people might be -- al Qaeda forces -- and you then try to find
them. And to the extent you, in that process, see people moving, that
then you attempt to attend to that.
Q: But are you offering them any option for surrendering to custody of
any forces, or do they just stop their activities, or what is it --
Rumsfeld: These folks are pros. They're clever. They've been around a
long time. They're survivors. They've changed sides three or four
times probably before and may again. They don't need me to give them a
road map.
Q: Mr. Secretary, is there any evidence that the anthrax that's come
in letters to the United States is from Iraq? Do you have any evidence
-- and in retrospect, might it have been a mistake in 1998, during
Operation Desert Fox, not to have targeted facilities that would
produce anthrax?
Rumsfeld: That's pretty much an issue for intelligence and for law
enforcement, and I'm going to leave it to those folks.
Q: Mr. Secretary, you've expressed, and others in this building have
expressed some frustration that these daily briefings tend to put the
focus on what you can talk about -- the bombing raids and what not,
and you've repeatedly stressed that covert operations are going to be
significant. I wonder if you can give us some perspective as to what
fraction of the ongoing military operations are the sort of things
that you can talk about, what fraction are things that you simply
cannot.
Rumsfeld: Boy that's a tough question. I think the way to think of it
is, everyone here in the Pentagon press corps is knowledgeable about
the capabilities of the aircraft and weapons that are currently being
used, and you know they're powerful and they know they can do certain
things within reasonable degrees of accuracy. And we also know they
can't do other things. They can't crawl around on the ground and find
people.
That being the case, what one has to do is to start out by trying to
create an environment in the air that our forces can function in
reasonable safety, and second, then to develop interaction with the
ground so that one can develop targets and get good information that
is better than one can get from the air, and coordinate an air-ground
effort. And there are clearly forces on the ground that are anxious to
rid the country of al Qaeda and to rid the country of Taliban, and
they've been trying to do that before September 11th, and they're
still trying to do it.
And what's different today is they have some help. They're going to
have some help in food, they're going to have some help in ammunition,
they're going to have some help in air support and assistance. And one
would think that if it's done reasonably well and over a period of
time, that they may have more success than they were able to have
prior to getting that kind of assistance.
And it is impossible for me to reach in and grab a fraction, a
percentage, and say this is more important than something else. I
think it's going to be a combined effort that is going to create an
environment that's inhospitable for the people we want to have out of
there.
Q: Mr. Secretary, does that mean that your optimal scenario is one in
which you don't really need to put U.S. ground forces into Afghanistan
because, as you point out, there are forces on the ground who have
been fighting the Taliban for a long time?
Rumsfeld: No. The optimal scenario would be that they would all decide
to leave the country and turn themselves in. And that would be --
Q: Well, the next --
Rumsfeld: Just below that?
Q: Just below that.
Q: Mr. Secretary?
Rumsfeld: Yes?
Q: Yesterday President Bush was saying that they were -- you were
paving the way to the entrance of friendly troops. What troops he
meant?
Rumsfeld: I beg your pardon?
Q: President Bush have mentioned yesterday that the U.S. forces were
paving the way for the entrance of ground troops, friendly ground
troops. What forces he was referring to?
Rumsfeld: I don't know the reference, but I assume what he was saying
is what I've been saying, that there are forces on the ground that are
opposed to the Taliban and opposed to the al Qaeda: the Northern
Alliance factions, the tribes in the south. And our effort would be to
try to make them successful, to do things that are helpful to them so
that they have the opportunity to move forward, as they are, towards
Mazar-e Sharif; to move forward, as they are, towards the northeast,
where there is an al Qaeda unit that they've been working on; to move
south towards Kabul, where the Taliban forces are defending between --
to the north of Kabul; to move in the south -- I'll stop. Go ahead.
Q: Thank you. We're all getting anecdotal tales from the frontlines,
and much that is coming across suggests that the United States is not
to a large extent going after some of the dug-in forces, particularly
on the plain north of Kabul. I understand why the United States is
restrained in its military operations when it's regard to -- with
regard to civilian casualties and concerns about that. But in other
areas, what would be the reason for any kind of restraint, military
restraint, in this campaign? The longer it goes on --
Rumsfeld: Deconfliction. Deconfliction. You want --
Gen. Myers: Good intelligence.
Rumsfeld: You need good intelligence so you don't end up doing things
to people on the ground who are opposed to the Taliban, and that means
you need good communications, as the general said.
Q: Mr. Secretary, what information do you have about civilian
casualties at this point, during the entire operation? And collateral
damage broadly, but civilian casualties specifically.
Rumsfeld: We've got practically no hard information from the ground
because we've been using the weapons in areas that are not controlled
by friends. Therefore, the information from the ground tends to be
self-serving, and to the extent Taliban wants to show anyone anything,
they take them out to something that they contend is a wrong-doing of
some kind.
There was what sounded to me to be a reasonably balanced report from
somebody that there might have been four people killed in a house,
that we talked about on a earlier day here, that was the result of an
errant weapon going to the -- not to the helicopter it was aimed at,
but to a house that was about a mile away. There's also a report that
sounds reasonable that several people were wounded when an errant --
it wasn't errant -- it hit a building that we had been told was a
Taliban warehouse. It turns out it may have had some Red Cross
activity in it, and there may have been several people wounded there.
The numbers that Taliban has been floating out in the media are -- we
are certain -- false in terms of larger numbers than that. And we also
have anecdotal information from the ground that people on the ground
are impressed by the fact that they can basically go about their
business, in many respects, and not fear from the bombing that's
taking place because the bombing that's taking place is, as I say,
focused on military targets; it's focused, for the most part, outside
of these towns. And when television says we're bombing Kabul, we're
not bombing Kabul. We may take out a single location in Kabul, but
most of the effort is on the outskirts of Kabul in unpopulated areas
and military targets.
Gen. Myers: Let me just talk about the alleged bus incident. They have
looked at that very hard in the area that they said the bus was in.
They've looked at the targets we struck in that area, and we can find
no evidence that the bombs went anywhere other than they were supposed
to go, and no evidence of that at this point. So --
Rumsfeld: There's three things you should remember -- there's three
places it can come from. One is from the air, which would be coalition
forces. Another is from the ground, the ground fire, AAA and ground
missiles that are going up and have to come down, and may or may not
be well directed. And the third is there are people fighting on the
ground. There are opposition forces that are competing against al
Qaeda and Taliban. So an assumption that a particular event was the
result of one of those three, without very good information, it seems
to me, is somewhat speculative.
Q: Mr. Secretary --
Q: When you say --
Rumsfeld: Torie has been standing, suggesting that it's --
Q: -- that forces on the ground may get some help from the United
States, and you mention ammunition, are you suggesting that --
Q: And air support.
Q: Excuse me. Are you suggesting that you may be supplying the
Northern Alliance or other opposition groups with ammunition and
supplies? And how would you go about doing that?
Q: And with air support?
Q: (Off mike) -- are supplying them?
Rumsfeld: I am verifying the statement I made the first day, and that
was that those that are against al Qaeda and the Taliban in
Afghanistan, we would like to be successful. And we have been and will
do things that we're capable of doing that are helpful to them in
their efforts to try to root out the terrorist and the terrorist
network that exists there, and the Taliban government that has brought
such terrible, terrible damage and carnage to the Afghan people.
Thank you.
Q: But you mentioned weapons -- you mentioned weapons. Are you
supplying them?
(No response from the secretary has he leaves the podium)
(end DoD transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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