28 September 2001
Transcript: State Department Noon Briefing, September 28, 2001
(Department, coalition against terrorism, China, Afghanistan, Sudan,
Middle East, Macedonia) (8360)
State Department Spokesman Richard Boucher briefed.
Following is the State Department transcript:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Daily Press Briefing Index
Friday, September 28, 2001
BRIEFER: Richard Boucher, Spokesman
DEPARTMENT
-- Foreign Service Exam
-- Report on Counterterrorism
COALITION AGAINST TERRORISM
-- Financial Efforts Against Terrorism/UN Security Council
- Aspects/Saudi Arabia Support
-- Under Secretary Bolton's Travel to Central Asia
-- International Support
-- Secretary's Phone Calls
CHINA
-- Release of Wu Jianming
-- Support for Coalition Against Terrorism
AFGHANISTAN
-- Status of Detained Aid Workers
-- Taliban on Terrorism and Usama bin Laden
-- Conference on Refugees in Berlin
SUDAN
-- Lifting of Sanctions/US Policy/Extremist Groups
MIDDLE EAST
-- Security Meeting/US Role
MACEDONIA
-- Travel of James Pardew/Disarmament Efforts
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 2001, 12:50 P.M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
MR. BOUCHER: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. If I could, I'd
like to talk about one or two things off the top, and then we can go
on to your questions.
The first is I suppose in the way of normal business, getting back to
normal. We have -- the Foreign Service exam is going to be given
tomorrow. We have been thrilled with the success of our efforts to get
people to sign up. We encourage everyone who has signed up to turn out
for the exam. There are more than 23,500 people who have registered,
nearly than twice the number of registrants in the year 2000. The
increase in the number of minority registrants has given us
approximately 6,000 minority registrants.
We've been making phone calls and efforts to get the people who signed
up to actually show for the exam. In the past, there's been something
like a 36 percent no-show rate. So we've been making phone calls from
people in this building, as well as others. But by 7:00 p.m. on
Friday, we will have made approximately 6,000 calls to minority
applicants to show up. In addition, those who have had further
questions have been referred to State Department employees who spent
their own time calling candidates, and several hundred calls have been
made by Assistant Secretaries, from Senior Foreign Service officers,
junior officers, people around this building to prospective applicants
to the Foreign Service. So people like Phil and I have been calling
other people besides journalists.
So that's good. We've also sent a series of electronic postcards from
the Secretary of State to the applicants for the exam to remind them
to show up, and to remind them of the importance of the work that they
are applying for.
So that's the situation with the Foreign Service exam tomorrow.
QUESTION: Of the exam?
QUESTION: No, not of the exam.
MR. BOUCHER: You'd like the answers, too?
QUESTION: No, on the e-mail.
MR. BOUCHER: I'll see if we can do that.
QUESTION: Is it pass/fail? And if it is, passing doesn't assure you a
job, does it?
MR. BOUCHER: No, it's a scored exam, and Sahar has taken it more
recently than I have. I took it 25 years ago. It's a scored exam, and
then there's a benchmark given, depending on the number of people we
can take in. We're hiring now the Civil Service and Foreign Service,
so this is only part of that. We're hiring about 1,400 people this
year. But it's a scored exam, and a large number of people who pass
the writtens, and then you have to go for an oral examination as well.
QUESTION: Do people who have specific languages this time already --
who already have languages --
MR. BOUCHER: We generally don't require any specific language. Once
people pass the examination process, which has to do with the United
States and history and world affairs and geography and all that stuff,
then we look at people's language skills as part of the admissions --
the actual final decision on induction.
But we tend to think that languages -- it's always good to get people
who have languages, but we also teach a lot of languages, too.
QUESTION: Did you say that you are making these calls to minority
applicants exclusively, or is that --
MR. BOUCHER: I think it's especially to minority applicants. I'm not
sure if it's exclusively. But that's the group that we have targeted
the most.
QUESTION: Was this question asked before? How do you know? Do they
say? Do they indicate on the form?
MR. BOUCHER: People, when they sign up, I think -- well, I guess the
form may not be on the Web anymore, but when they signed up, they
indicated their status.
QUESTION: You had two things.
MR. BOUCHER: Okay, the second thing I'd like to talk about is the
financial aspects, controlling the finance of terrorism that the
President started off the week with, by announcing that we were
opening up a major effort on that front. And we have seen, I think, a
number of steps taken around the world. Twenty-some governments have
taken concrete action either to freeze assets or impose new
regulations. We've also seen a number of countries sign the
International Convention for the Suppression of Financing of
Terrorism.
The United States signed this some time ago and it is now under
consideration up at the Senate and we are working with the Senate to
get ratification. There are now about 36 countries who have signed the
convention. And just in the last week or two, we have seen a number
sign up. Turkey, for example, signed it yesterday. We certainly very
much welcome that. The other countries -- Belgium signed it yesterday;
Jordan signed it the 24th; Indonesia on the 24th; Denmark on the 25th;
Luxembourg on the 20th.
So in addition to all the work we have been doing and the individual
regulations and then the United Nations resolution that we are working
this week, there is I think a growing international momentum for
signing and then implementing this International Convention on the
Suppression of Financing of Terrorism.
QUESTION: When did the US sign it?
MR. BOUCHER: We signed it in January of 2000.
QUESTION: And a year later you still haven't been able to get it
through the Senate?
MR. BOUCHER: I think it has been up on the Senate, but I think at this
point we are working very constructively with the Senate.
QUESTION: Is there some kind of opposition to it?
MR. BOUCHER: Not that I know of at this point.
QUESTION: If you are encouraging all of these other countries to sign
it and put it into effect, how come the United States hasn't made a
big push to get this done immediately as a model for other countries
to follow? I mean, how come this wasn't --
MR. BOUCHER: Who said we hadn't?
QUESTION: Well, it's still -- if it's still up on the Senate. How come
the Senate didn't pass this --
MR. BOUCHER: Didn't I just answer Matt's question?
QUESTION: I'm asking again, I guess.
MR. BOUCHER: Okay, you can ask again. I'll give you the same answer.
We signed it in January 2000. We think it is important. We have been
working now with the Senate to try to get it ratified. We are making a
big push. We are working constructively with the Senate. Matt asked me
if I knew of any opposition up there and, frankly, I don't at this
point. It looks like it will be done soon. And we are welcoming other
countries signing it. Not enough have ratified it yet for it to enter
into force. But that's the kind of momentum we are trying to
establish, and I can assure you that we and the Senate agree the
United States ought to be part of that.
QUESTION: Still on this, Richard. I'm sorry, I haven't read this as
closely as perhaps I should have, but is signing and ratifying this
treaty part of the resolution that you're shopping around up at the
UN?
MR. BOUCHER: I think it's probably referred to in there. One of the
virtues of the resolution at the UN is, under Chapter 7, it would make
mandatory the taking of a number of steps that roughly parallel those
in the convention. So it would encourage countries not only to join in
the convention but also to start carrying out the kind of steps that
would be called for in the convention. So, in a way, the UN resolution
gives us a jump on implementing the steps in the convention.
QUESTION: But can the UN Security Council compel a sovereign nation to
sign a --
MR. BOUCHER: It can't compel it to sign. But the Chapter 7 resolution
would be mandatory on people to carry out those steps that are
delineated in the resolution.
QUESTION: Richard, it seems to me after reading this document -- this
draft resolution -- that you are going to run into the --
MR. BOUCHER: How come everybody has a copy except me?
QUESTION: -- you're going to run into problems with countries saying,
well, we don't consider this group to be a terrorist group and we
don't accept your definition -- why should we accept your definition.
Because it doesn't attempt at any stage in this to identify any
particular groups or provide any objective definition of what we're
talking about.
How are you going to get around that problem when it comes up?
MR. BOUCHER: We're going to work with other governments as we have
been. I think there is a clear recognition among most members of the
international community that people who run airplanes into large
buildings are terrorists.
QUESTION: Aren't we talking about other people, though?
MR. BOUCHER: We're talking about other people as well. And that there
will be a great deal of effort expended to work on this. We have
identified ourselves the foreign terrorist organizations that we know
of. We have identified in our own executive orders the groups and
organizations that work at least with al-Qaida, and we will have a
very active effort with other governments to identify and restrict the
sources of financing for terrorist organizations. There is also, if
you have read your resolution, a committee to be set up by the
Security Council to deal with implementation issues, and I am sure
these issues would be raised and discussed there.
QUESTION: Have you happened to -- can you say if you found an Algerian
link? I mean, the Algerian terrorists were running their own nice
campaign --
MR. BOUCHER: I am not going to try to explain the law enforcement
effort and the status of the investigation.
QUESTION: No, no, but I was saying, apropos --
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know if it's apropos but, no, I'm not going to
comment on the investigation.
QUESTION: No, I'm sorry. All right.
QUESTION: A number of the men who were just posted on the FBI web site
last night were Saudi nationals. Has the Saudi Government in any way
cooperated in trying to look into the cases of these individuals?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, not to comment on any specific actions that
governments have taken, but we have found the cooperation with the
Saudi Government on a variety of issues to be excellent.
QUESTION: On that, Richard, has the Secretary sent a letter to the
Sudanese, basically saying in the coming days -- the Sudanese Foreign
Ministry this morning released something that they said was a
communication between the Secretary and their foreign minister. I just
want to make sure that that was -- was there a letter specifically
sent to Sudan, or is this some kind of form letter that went out to
everyone, saying we want your help?
MR. BOUCHER: We're checking.
QUESTION: Can we step aside from this for just a minute to perhaps
have you say something about the exile by China of the writer, Wu?
QUESTION: Are we going to go to China now, or are we staying --
MR. BOUCHER: We're going to go to China. This is the case of Mr. Wu
Jianming who, as you know, we have been talking about for some months.
And our people, especially at our consulate in Guangzhou, have been
raising this case with the Chinese and have been working very closely
with Mr. Wu since his detention on April 8th.
We are pleased that he has been released. We are pleased that he is
returning to his family in the United States. And our consular
officers have reported that he appeared to be in generally good
health. So that has happened, and we're glad to see it.
QUESTION: Did this come up with Foreign Minister Tang and the
Secretary?
MR. BOUCHER: The issue of detainees and general human rights issues
did come up. I can't remember if the specific case was mentioned. But
this is something that we have pursued at a variety of levels in the
past and I'm sure that it has been discussed with other members of the
party.
QUESTION: Do you think the timing has any significance? Or what
significance does the timing have, in your view?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know. You would have to ask the Chinese on the
timing. We are just glad he is out and glad he is able to return to
his family. We have been working hard on this for a long time.
QUESTION: How about the detainees in Afghanistan? The status?
MR. BOUCHER: The people in Afghanistan. There is not a whole lot of
news there. But let me tell you what there is. The Pakistani lawyer
who was selected by the detainees has entered Afghanistan. He is on
his route to Kabul. We understand he has a meeting with Taliban
officials Saturday morning -- tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock. The
lawyer has told the consuls, for the Americans, for the Germans and
the Australians who are in detention, that he hoped to see them on
Saturday. He's planning on taking a package of food and medicine and
letters and personal items for the detainees. That package has been
put together by their parents.
He will also keep family members and the US Embassy in Islamabad
informed of the progress of the case. The parents of the American
detainees are currently in Islamabad, and our embassy there remains in
very close touch with them.
This is a Friday, a holiday for the Taliban, so US Embassy officials
had no contacts with the Taliban representatives today about the
welfare and the status of the Americans. But we've been in frequent
contact with their officials in Islamabad to express our concern about
these people and our concern about their welfare.
QUESTION: There are Christian groups around the world that are saying
they are going to redouble their efforts to go into the Muslim
countries. Do you find this a destabilizing factor?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not aware of those statements. I wouldn't have any
comment at this point.
QUESTION: Is it still your understanding that the trial is going to
resume tomorrow, or is this what --
MR. BOUCHER: We don't know for sure. The lawyers told us that if the
trial resumes, then he'll stay in Kabul; if not, if there are further
delays, he'll go back to Pakistan. So at this point, we really don't
know for sure if it's going to resume right away or not.
QUESTION: And is he going -- is the lawyer going for something
special? I mean, is there some kind of --
MR. BOUCHER: He's going to see the detainees, first of all.
QUESTION: So there isn't any --
MR. BOUCHER: He's going to see his clients, you might say. And I guess
he's there at this moment. If the trial starts, he'll be there for the
trial.
QUESTION: So you're not aware that he's going for any specific
proceeding?
MR. BOUCHER: We don't know of any particular proceeding. He wasn't
able to pin that down before he left.
QUESTION: Was he told explicitly that he would be able to see the
detainees?
MR. BOUCHER: No. He was told that he would have a meeting with the
Taliban Saturday at 10:00 a.m. That's what he knows at this point --
what we know from him at this point.
QUESTION: Richard, do you consider the detainees to be human shields?
MR. BOUCHER: We consider them to be Americans who are detained, and
we're concerned about their welfare.
QUESTION: Richard, what is Mr. Bolton doing in Uzbekistan?
MR. BOUCHER: Under Secretary Bolton is traveling in the region,
including Uzbekistan. He is traveling as part of our diplomatic effort
to counter the threat of terrorism.
QUESTION: Can you give us the other countries?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I don't have any other information on that.
QUESTION: How long has he been there?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have any information on that.
QUESTION: I understand that in this new war on terrorism that a lot of
information that we may have gotten before is not going to be
available to reporters. But the itinerary of a diplomatic mission in
the region, why is that now not something you're going to disclose
publicly?
MR. BOUCHER: Because in this particular circumstance, it's not
something we want to disclose publicly. Because that's essential -- we
think it's a factor in the success of the mission.
QUESTION: But when you said the region, you mean Central Asia? Or do
you mean South Asia? What region are you talking about?
MR. BOUCHER: The region around Uzbekistan.
QUESTION: Well, when we report this --
MR. BOUCHER: In Central Asia.
QUESTION: You mean Central Asia.
MR. BOUCHER: Central Asia and that region.
QUESTION: Speaking of that region, the Secretary is meeting today with
the Foreign Minister of Kazakhstan. And the Kazakhs on Monday -- I'm
sure you'll have no problem, since they came out and said that they
were going to cooperate and they would offer over-flight access to
their airspace. Have you guys availed yourselves of this?
MR. BOUCHER: As you know, we have not been confirming what we might or
might not be doing, asking, or availing ourselves of in particular
countries. But certainly, we have noted Kazakhstan's strong support. I
expect the Secretary will thank the Foreign Minister this afternoon.
We think Kazakhstan has made the clear commitment to the fight against
terrorism and we appreciate the cooperation and coordination we have
had. And I am sure the Secretary and the Foreign Minister will talk
about the way forward.
QUESTION: Do you know if Mr. Bolton traveled commercially to Uzbek on
Air Uzbekistan?
MR. BOUCHER: That is not something I would be able to comment on.
QUESTION: Can you give us some kind of time frame to this mission that
he is on? I mean, our understanding was that he had been there since
Monday and he was staying right through next week. It seems to suggest
you've actually set up a whole kind of department over there.
MR. BOUCHER: That's not anything I have any information for you on.
QUESTION: Richard, without going into specifics as you don't want to,
as what individual countries are doing, you have thanked certain
countries for their support and noted in cases where they have
provided a lot of support. Would you say that the Uzbeks are as
forthcoming as you would like them to be at this point?
MR. BOUCHER: I am not going to try to characterize too many individual
countries, and that directly relates to what I am not able to talk
about. So I am afraid I am not going to be able to talk about it.
QUESTION: There have been some countries that have offered a lot of
support --
MR. BOUCHER: And we have left it to those individual countries to make
statements about what they are prepared to do or not to do.
QUESTION: But that wasn't the question. Just as you said you welcome
this support --
MR. BOUCHER: I can't characterize their cooperation unless they talk
about their cooperation.
QUESTION: But you have characterized Saudi and Pakistan, at least, as
being cooperative. And somehow I thought you had done that for
Uzbekistan as well, but I don't remember.
MR. BOUCHER: I don't remember having done it. I have talked about the
kind of support and cooperation that we have had in Central Asia. We
have been pleased with that. We are working with a number of
governments in the region. But that is about as far as I can go at
this moment.
QUESTION: Pakistan also has its own security concerns with Islamic
extremists. What kind of obligations does the United States have in
helping Uzbekistan if we do --
MR. BOUCHER: We have worked for a long time with Uzbekistan and with
other governments in the region on the fight against terrorism. We
have supported their efforts. We have had cooperative programs and
training, we have had meetings together with other governments in the
region. The problems created by the Islamic movement of Uzbekistan,
which is a terrorist organization with links to al-Qaida, have been
things that we have been working on with them for many years.
QUESTION: Do we also still express concern about human rights and
religious freedoms there?
MR. BOUCHER: I think, absolutely. We have not dropped our concerns
about human rights all over the world. In terms of the way we have
dealt with the problems of terrorism in the region, we have frequently
made the point that an essential part of that is to separate the
terrorists from the believers, from legitimate and peaceful believers
in Islam. And that that is a human rights question, but it is also an
essential element of the fight against terrorism.
QUESTION: Same subject. Have you got -- has the US Government received
a fresh rejection, as it's being reported on one cable network, from
the Taliban so far as releasing Usama bin Laden? I mean, it's a
standing request, of course. But there was a report a while ago that
they said no, again.
MR. BOUCHER: There haven't been any particular contacts with the
United States. We haven't had any direct discussions with them. I
don't know if it's in relation to the Pakistani -- there was a group
of Pakistani clerics and government people, I think, who were going.
We are aware of that trip. Nobody is carrying any message on our
behalf.
But, clearly, we would expect them to express the view to the Taliban,
the view that is shared by the United States and Pakistan, that the
Taliban need to do what the President told them to do -- asked them to
do -- last Thursday night in his speech. And if they don't do that,
they're going to suffer the same fate.
QUESTION: Richard, has the time for diplomacy, as far as the US is
concerned with the Taliban -- has the time for diplomacy run out?
MR. BOUCHER: I am not going to try to make statements like that. I am
not offering any sense of timing of other measures.
QUESTION: When you say you don't want to talk about Mr. Bolton's
itinerary or his -- but can you say when he left the United States,
not necessarily when he arrived in wherever he might be?
MR. BOUCHER: No.
QUESTION: And the reason being? That his departure from the United
States is somehow a classified secret?
MR. BOUCHER: No.
QUESTION: Then I don't get it.
MR. BOUCHER: We are engaged in a broad-based campaign that has many
elements, many people doing different things. Under Secretary Bolton
is part of this. He is traveling in the region of Central Asia,
including Uzbekistan, to try to help accomplish this mission. But,
frankly, some of the details of the who, what, when, where and how and
what he is doing are just not going to be made available because we
think it's important for some of these missions to be able to occur
with a sense of discretion.
QUESTION: But you have just come out and announced that it's
happening. I don't understand why you can't say when exactly he left
the United States. I can understand that you want to keep his arrival
and wherever he is going --
MR. BOUCHER: It's not too hard to calculate when he might have arrived
in various places based on the time he left. There's no essential
difference.
QUESTION: Can you say that this is a diplomatic mission, or are there
any -- is there a Pentagon element in this, by any chance?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't talk about that.
QUESTION: When you talk about this mission, can you be more specific?
QUESTION: The reason -- I just want to clarify -- the reason why you
don't want to be forthcoming with a lot of the details about this
trip, does that have anything to do with the safety of the party, or
is it because of the discretion of the actual diplomacy involved?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I want us to get started down that road,
Eli. You start talking about security concerns, you start talking
about the nature of the mission. It's just not a mission that we feel
it's appropriate to talk about, because we think the success of the
mission would be enhanced by not talking about it.
QUESTION: So you're saying -- what is the mission?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not going to answer questions about the mission.
QUESTION: He said he wouldn't talk about it.
MR. BOUCHER: The mission is to coordinate with governments of Central
Asia on the fight against terrorism.
QUESTION: Is he alone?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't answer that.
QUESTION: Richard, harking back to the theme of what some countries
have done for us, and whether or not you'd comment on it, can we go
back to Sudan? You said you were checking on the letter. But has the
Government of Sudan done anything else that you can tell us about
publicly that has been favorable?
MR. BOUCHER: The Government of Sudan itself, I think, has talked a
little bit in public about what it's done, and you've seen that in the
United Nations this morning, the Security Council passed UN Security
Council Resolution 1054, which lifts the UN sanctions that had been
imposed upon Sudan because of the assassination attempt on President
Mubarak.
We have given an explanation of vote up there, which describes that. I
can go into that particular resolution if you want to. But in that
context, I think we've noted that over the last year we've had a
dialogue about terrorism with the Government of Sudan. We feel like
we've made concrete progress in that dialogue. And in the last few
weeks since the attacks in New York and Washington, we have had some
serious discussions with the Government of Sudan about ways to combat
terrorism in that context.
We have noted that they have recently apprehended extremists within
that country, whose activities may have contributed to international
terrorism. We have noted that they have taken other steps. We welcome
the steps that they have taken. We would expect the Government of
Sudan to demonstrate a full commitment to the fight against
international terrorism by taking every possible step to expel
terrorists and deny them safe haven. And we'll continue to work with
Sudan and to pressure Sudan to take those kind of steps.
QUESTION: As a follow-up, have any other steps they've taken had to do
with financial squeeze?
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not sure I can go into too much more detail on the
steps until they do, but I'd say that they have worked with us to
eliminate the presence of terrorist groups that could threaten
American interests. They have provided information on the past doings
of terrorist groups in Sudan. And as I said, they have recently
apprehended extremists who might threaten people there.
QUESTION: Do some of those terrorists that they apprehended, were they
involved in the bombing of UN humanitarian planes? And do you expect
Sudan to be removed from the terrorism -- list of state sponsors of
terrorism --
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think I'm able at this point to describe the
people they might have apprehended, other than the way I've already
described them.
As far as the US terrorism list, I would say that they really do need
to meet all the requirements that we have set up for getting off the
terrorism list. It is a different topic than the UN resolution, which
dealt with some specific elements relating to the attempted
assassination of President Mubarak in Addis Ababa. Both Egypt and
Ethiopia had felt it was time to lift that particular resolution.
But on the US counter-terrorism sanctions, they still have additional
and substantial steps that they need to take, and we will continue to
urge them to do those things, before they would be lifted.
QUESTION: Are you saying that the Government of Sudan -- so if these
terrorists were not the ones involved in bombing a UN humanitarian --
MR. BOUCHER: I didn't say one way or the other what the people they've
apprehended had been doing.
QUESTION: Do you believe that the government was involved in that
bombing?
MR. BOUCHER: Which bombing are you talking about?
QUESTION: Well, several months ago, there was a bombing of a UN
humanitarian plane, wasn't there?
MR. BOUCHER: We have frequently said that the government action in the
south in particular has involved bombing of humanitarian efforts and
relief efforts. That was a pattern in the past. And about the time the
Secretary was in Africa, I think we noted that those bombings had
stopped.
They haven't stopped. I think they have occurred since then again, on
occasion. And certainly that has been one of the major issues that we
continue to raise with the Government of Sudan. We have not, in any
way, changed our view of the many things that need to be resolved in
Sudan. The entire peace process, and many of the elements of human
rights violations, of religious freedom, of slavery, of interference
with aid efforts, these are still major problems. And the President
has appointed Senator Danforth to try to deal with these and the other
issues.
QUESTION: Very quickly, you said they have apprehended extremists. How
do we know that these are, in fact, extremists and not just political
opponents of the government?
MR. BOUCHER: I think we have enough information ourselves to know
that.
QUESTION: So we know who these individuals are?
MR. BOUCHER: Yes. We do. You don't.
QUESTION: You mentioned there were a variety of things that the
Sudanese still needed to do to get off the terrorism list, and Elise
was asking about the bombing of UN humanitarian sites. Not trying to
be flip, but is bombing UN facilities an act of terrorism that is one
of the activities we need them to stop on the terrorism list? Or is it
a separate issue?
MR. BOUCHER: Bombing aid workers is a terrible thing and nobody should
do it. But the criteria for getting off the terrorism list would be to
completely distance itself from any activities of terrorist groups and
remove all vestiges of cooperation, you might say, with terrorist
groups. And until they have completely satisfied those requirements,
we would not be in a position to remove them from the terrorism list.
QUESTION: On a larger issue, unless you have addressed it, the
Egyptian Foreign Minister late Wednesday, and the Russian Foreign
Minister a few days earlier, both had made a pitch -- they support the
US, they say -- but they have both made a pitch, and maybe others have
as well, for a larger setting, for some sort of an international
conference, an international gathering, for a sustained campaign
against terrorism. Of course, this reference you've made to the
ongoing UN -- the interest in what the UN may be doing about
financing.
Is this a thought the US is entertaining, that there be some major
gathering of all the nations to try to sustain this drive?
MR. BOUCHER: It is a topic that has been discussed with the people who
have talked about it. I believe the Egyptian Foreign Minister, when he
was outside, clarified with you all, as he did in our discussions,
that he didn't see it as a requirement for proceeding further, that
they were in the coalition --
QUESTION: He said the culprits should be pursued anyhow. That's right.
MR. BOUCHER: They knew we needed to go after the people who did this.
They knew we needed to go after terrorism. They saw this as one
possible way, over the longer term, of enhancing the cooperation. So
it is a topic that we will consider. We haven't made a judgment one
way or the other at this point.
QUESTION: I'm going to try this time using the US. You said that the
US has information that these individuals who were apprehended by the
Sudanese were extremists; is that correct?
MR. BOUCHER: You asked me if the United States knew that the people
they had apprehended were extremists or terrorists rather than some
kind of political prisoner, and I said, yes.
QUESTION: So are you using "extremist" interchangeably with
"terrorists"? The US knows for a fact that these individuals have
committed acts of -- or are believed to have committed acts of
terrorism?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't quite go that far. I think when you have the word
"extremist" used, it indicates they have either committed acts, or
they have been associated with people who might have, or associated
with groups that might be associated with people who might have.
QUESTION: Is the US concerned, though, that there are going to be
governments around the world who may, for their own domestic reasons,
decide to use this as a pretext for just arresting people who perhaps
they just don't like?
MR. BOUCHER: I think, first and foremost, in terms of our cooperation,
we would want to have a substantial basis for discussing any specific
cases or individuals with other governments; second of all, that
obviously we stand for the due process of law around the world, and we
believe that in many places -- European countries, for example, where
there's a great deal of law enforcement effort being undertaken --
that they do in fact follow all due process of law. So those
protections are in place in countries around the world in many of the
places where we do see an active law enforcement effort being made.
As far as other places might go, I suppose it would depend on the
particular case. But we would want to have the opportunity to raise
any problems like that that we would see.
QUESTION: But there are a lot of groups around the world that the
countries call -- have been for a long time calling these people
"terrorists." And so, how do you -- are you going to have standards
for these countries to submit to you what in fact -- like what is your
definition of a terrorist?
MR. BOUCHER: We're not -- how can I say it? We're not the only judge
in the world. But clearly, we do have standards; we do have beliefs;
we do have grounds for citing who's a terrorist and who's not, and
that is something that we would advocate forcefully if we thought that
people were using this as an excuse to pick up other people.
QUESTION: Richard, your implication is that by saying that you know
that these people are in fact extremists is that you may have pointed
the Sudanese in the general direction of like, hey, look at this guy;
you might want to do something about --
MR. BOUCHER: I'm going to stop here. I've probably gone too far
already.
QUESTION: Can you say if that's --
MR. BOUCHER: No, I can't.
QUESTION: Can you say that -- you talked about how the Sudanese have
been cooperative in intelligence-sharing; can you at least say that
you, as well, have been sharing intelligence with the Sudanese?
MR. BOUCHER: No, I can't.
QUESTION: You can't?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't. I don't talk about intelligence. I don't talk
about intelligence-sharing.
QUESTION: You just did.
MR. BOUCHER: No, I didn't.
QUESTION: You just said the Sudanese have been cooperating on
intelligence-sharing; can you say if that's reciprocal?
MR. BOUCHER: I said they have provided information on past doings of
terrorist groups in Sudan.
QUESTION: Have you provided them any information --
MR. BOUCHER: We have had an active dialogue over the course of the
year where we have discussed what we know about activities of
terrorist groups, and what we would like them or expect them to do
about those -
QUESTION: And the second part is, you have said that there are still
some concerns about Sudan. Does that reflect the fact that your action
in the UN today was an abstention rather than a ringing endorsement by
voting "yes."
MR. BOUCHER: I think the resolution today had to do with the precise
circumstances of the resolution today. So the abstention was based on
the fact that the resolution had called on them to arrest and expel, I
think it was, the suspects of this attempted assassination on
President Mubarak. The suspects were not turned over to the
appropriate authorities. That was not satisfactory. But we do
understand, as do the governments of Egypt and Ethiopia, that they are
no longer in Sudan.
So while we thought it was appropriate to allow the lifting of these
sanctions because the suspects are no longer in Sudan and the
situation no longer applies, we would have preferred that they carry
out the resolution fully by arresting those people.
QUESTION: Okay, so you would have voted "yes" instead of just
abstaining had they turned them over to --
MR. BOUCHER: If they had been able to arrest them and turn them over,
that would have fulfilled the requirements of the resolution.
QUESTION: And you would have voted yes.
QUESTION: Richard, if they were arrested, and they weren't turned
over, and they're not in Sudan anymore, where are they?
MR. BOUCHER: They're no longer in Sudan; that's about all the
information I have at this point.
QUESTION: Well, aren't you afraid that these would-be terrorists are
running around, planning another attack on somebody? Or can you --
MR. BOUCHER: I'm not going to speculate on that.
QUESTION: Are they still in custody somewhere?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know.
QUESTION: Can you tell us anything more about the meeting with Mr.
Iryani of Yemen yesterday and what the current state of your
discussions with the Yemenis are? Have they also been arresting
extremists, perhaps?
MR. BOUCHER: Who met with Mr. Iryani of Yemen yesterday?
QUESTION: Mr. Grossman and Mr. Crocker.
MR. BOUCHER: Oh, Ryan Crocker. No, but I'll be glad to check on it
with Mr. Grossman and Mr. Crocker.
QUESTION: Are you satisfied with the pace of the Egyptian-Israeli
talks? The Secretary --
QUESTION: Egyptians?
QUESTION: I'm sorry.
MR. BOUCHER: We knew what he meant --
QUESTION: I was about to say, when the Egyptian Foreign Minister came
out Wednesday, the Secretary said that, as the meetings progress, he
could see a more active role for the US. I wonder if you could flesh
that out at all? And, indeed, they met today and they had talks,
preliminary discussions. Are things moving along nicely?
MR. BOUCHER: We are, indeed, glad to see that they had the security
meeting today. We think it is essential that these meetings continue,
that they engage in the fullest possible coordination on security
issues to help ensure a lasting halt to violence and terror. The
United States attended and facilitated these discussions. We recognize
much work remains to be done, particularly in the security areas.
We are encouraged that the sides have agreed to meet again soon to
continue those discussions. We would say it's also essential that both
the Palestinians and Israelis avoid actions that jeopardize this
renewed dialogue that has been initiated on September 26 in Gaza, and
that both sides need to do everything possible to restore an
atmosphere of calm.
QUESTION: Thank you.
QUESTION: Any thoughts on the anniversary of the outbreak of the
Intifada?
MR. BOUCHER: No. We think that what is going on right now offers an
important opportunity to break with the violence, to break with the
terror, and to let both Palestinians and Israelis get back to a
situation where they can lead normal lives and where they can resolve
their issues through political discussions.
QUESTION: Any phone calls on this subject?
MR. BOUCHER: On this subject?
QUESTION: Or on any other subject, for that matter.
MR. BOUCHER: They are always making phone calls. He talked to NATO
Secretary General this morning. Yesterday, the Secretary talked to a
number of people, including the Sri Lankan Foreign Minister, the
British Foreign Secretary, Chairman Arafat, Foreign Minister Peres,
the Indonesian Foreign Minister, the Foreign Minister of the United
Arab Emirates.
QUESTION: That was all yesterday?
MR. BOUCHER: That was all yesterday, with Lord Robertson being this
morning.
QUESTION: It concerns Afghanistan.
MR. BOUCHER: Please.
QUESTION: Will the detainees be a factor in this government's planning
for any other measures that may be in store for Afghanistan?
MR. BOUCHER: We consider the status of the detainees to be a
completely separate matter from what's going on, and we believe that
they need to be released right away, which is what the President said
last week.
QUESTION: So they will not be a factor?
MR. BOUCHER: I just stated our position on it.
QUESTION: Any conclusions from the meeting yesterday in Berlin? I
think when you spoke yesterday it was still going on.
MR. BOUCHER: I don't think we expected to have any particular
conclusions. There was, as you know, an appeal from the United Nations
to help the refugees and the people of Afghanistan. We have been
working on that for a great, long period of time. We attended the
meeting.
I think we, and many others, expressed our intention to work with the
United Nations and to bring these preparations we have made into
fruition, so that we can adequately take care of the people. There was
no new pledge announced there, but we would expect to be able to
describe an initial contribution probably next week when we talk again
in Geneva.
QUESTION: Did you discuss a possible reconstruction of the country
after the Taliban perhaps would leave?
MR. BOUCHER: We talked about the humanitarian situation with regard to
refugees. That was the subject of the conference.
QUESTION: But reconstruction did not come up?
MR. BOUCHER: I have no idea if words like that came up or not. But the
subject of the conference was to talk about humanitarian assistance
for the people of Afghanistan.
QUESTION: There are reports out of Saudi Arabia that that country has
agreed to allow us to launch military strikes. How important is that
in the cooperation between US and Saudi Arabia?
MR. BOUCHER: It is clearly one of those areas where I can't get into
any particular detail on what governments may or may not have agreed
to do unless they, themselves, decide to do it. I go back to say that
we have welcomed the cooperation of the Saudi Arabian Government in
working with us to confront terrorism, including their decision
earlier this week to break relations with the Taliban. But I leave it
to individual countries to announce what they might be doing.
QUESTION: Back to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Could you give us
an idea of what kind of steps would be necessary at this point for the
US to undertake the larger role that the Secretary said he could
foresee?
MR. BOUCHER: I would say that the United States has been involved at
various levels. We do play a significant role. We will continue to
work with the parties as they move forward and as our services or help
or contribution is desired by the parties, we will play whatever role
they think is appropriate, whatever role we think can usefully
contribute.
QUESTION: But if he said he can foresee a larger role, what is holding
that up now?
MR. BOUCHER: As things accelerate, if we get towards more and more
steps of cooperation, as we get towards the political dialogue based
on Resolutions 242 and 338 that we anticipate, I am sure the United
States will play a very large role.
QUESTION: On that, isn't the attending and facilitating a security
talk an enlarged role? I mean, there hadn't been any security talks,
so obviously your role --
MR. BOUCHER: There hadn't been any security talks for several months.
QUESTION: Right.
MR. BOUCHER: So we have played that role in the past; I am sure we
will in the future. We take --
QUESTION: But that -- that attendance and facilitation --
MR. BOUCHER: I am not going to argue with large, medium, small on this
one. We played a very active role. We have been involved in what's
going on. We have tried to move this process forward. One of the ways
we have done that is through our direct contacts with the leaders, and
also in our direct work with the sides on the security.
QUESTION: What I am trying to get at is, was the Secretary -- do you
think the Secretary -- or was the Secretary referring to this when he
was talking about the role, or was he referring to something else?
MR. BOUCHER: I think he was referring to the general proposition that
whatever role we could play to help this process move forward, we
would try to play. And that as it accelerated, as the cooperation
between the two sides grew larger, after their initial direct contacts
with the two sides, there may be a larger role for the United States
to play in helping that process continue.
QUESTION: Richard, yesterday you made some specific requests from the
Israelis. Do you consider them to have responded adequately to your
requests?
MR. BOUCHER: I think 24 hours is probably too little time to judge.
But we continue to believe that it is important for both sides to take
specific and concrete steps to cement the peace, to make the quiet
work better, and that they avoid actions that could escalate. We have
talked about those kind of things before.
QUESTION: Richard, two quick things. Do you have any plans any time
soon to review the terrorism list? And, second, there was a report
this morning that -- you probably can't talk about this -- two Chinese
companies have been helping the Afghans to build some telephone
systems. Anything on that?
MR. BOUCHER: I wouldn't, first of all, be able to comment on any
information that purportedly comes from telephones or intelligence
systems. But I would say that we found Chinese cooperation in concrete
ways to be very good. We are very pleased with the cooperation we have
had from China.
As you know, we have had detailed counter-terrorism discussions with
the Chinese. The Chinese were among the first -- I think President
Jiang was among the first people to call President Bush. They have
supported the UN Security Council resolution. So we have been working
productively with the Chinese in a number of ways in this
circumstance.
QUESTION: The list --
MR. BOUCHER: Oh, the terrorism list. There is a sort of a re-issuance
of the current list that takes place every year around this time. It
should take place fairly soon. But we always look at organizations
that may go on or come off the list.
If you're talking about countries, there are two lists, actually.
There are foreign terrorist organizations, which is an annual
re-issuance that we will be doing fairly soon. But we put
organizations on from time to time in the interim periods. And then,
of course, there is a list of state sponsors of terrorism. And, again,
that is the sort of thing that gets updated as necessary, as
appropriate. If countries should take steps to stop any form of
cooperation with terrorism, we would be happy to take them off the
list.
QUESTION: Can we go to Macedonia briefly? (Inaudible.)
MR. BOUCHER: Macedonia.
QUESTION: Mr. James Pardew, one of the major negotiators in this
process in Macedonia, will be there Monday, I believe, again. So can
you confirm that?
MR. BOUCHER: I would have to say, I've stopped -- oh, I've got it.
Yes, he will return to Skopje on Monday to support the peace process.
He goes in and out so frequently and he is working very closely with
the European Union representatives that I don't always track his
travel.
QUESTION: One more. The leader of the so-called MLA in Macedonia said
recently that this group no longer exists and what would you say about
this? And there are also reports that this leader will form his own
political party there?
MR. BOUCHER: I can't confirm any particular reports. We have seen the
statements that they have disbanded. We know that they turned over
3,800 weapons and more than 400,000 explosives. But as far as
disbandment, we would say we will continue to watch the situation and
we would expect to hold them to their commitments.
QUESTION: Can you comment on the initiative for the referendum?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't have anything on that for you. We think that the
process that's under way in the Macedonian parliament to implement the
agreements needs to continue and needs to be completed.
QUESTION: Thank you.
(The briefing concluded at 1:37 p.m.)
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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