27 September 2001
Transcript: State Department's Jones on World Fight Against Terrorism
(9/25 on "Dialogue": Assistant Secretary Elizabeth Jones) (7630)
"The effort that is underway to build an international coalition
against global terrorism really is already very successful," the State
Department's Elizabeth Jones told journalists September 25.
Jones, assistant secretary of State for European and Eurasian affairs,
said the coalition "includes all the countries who stand on the side
of fighting global terrorism. There is a very clear line that has been
drawn now between those who support terrorism or harbor terrorists and
those who have joined the battle against them. That means that any
country or any organization that has decided to support the fight
against global terrorism is part of the coalition."
She distinguished between the "strictly military" coalition that was
involved in the Gulf War, and what is being developed now: "a very
broad political international coalition of countries who are prepared
to fight the war against terrorism through any means available to us,
including the financial means... intelligence sharing, et cetera."
Involvement by other nations can range from political and diplomatic
support, to intelligence sharing, to permitting overflights and
offering other types of military support, "all the way through joint
operations when the time comes to root out the terrorists in
Afghanistan, and to root out terrorists elsewhere in the world," Jones
said.
Jones stressed that "this is not just a fight against Osama bin Laden.
It is a fight against all forms of terrorism, all terrorists around
the world."
The assistant secretary was speaking on the State Department's
"Dialogue" interactive television broadcast, responding to questions
from journalists in Lisbon, Paris and Rome.
Asked whether the U.S. goal in Afghanistan is the overthrow of the
Taliban regime, Jones replied: "No, the objective is to ensure that
the foreign invader, the new foreign invader of Afghanistan, Osama bin
Laden, is rooted out with his senior lieutenants."
Noting that the United States has provided $173 million in
humanitarian aid to Afghanistan this year, she emphasized that the
international fight against terrorism "is by no means against the
Afghan people. It is against Osama bin Laden and the al Qaeda
organization."
"This is going to be a war in the shadows. ... It has to be done very
carefully. It has to be done deliberately," Jones said.
President Bush has said that the campaign against terrorism will be a
long battle, she said: "We know that there is not a quick solution."
Asked about the stance of the ex-Soviet republics, Jones said the
countries of Central Asia, the Caucasus, the Balkans, Ukraine "very
much put themselves on the side of the line in support of the
international fight against global terrorism. But exactly what each
country is prepared to do remains a subject between the allies and
them."
On the U.S. relationship with Russia, Jones said, "Russia has stood
clearly on the side of the fight against terrorism; but the United
States' relationship with Russia is much broader than that." She cited
economic initiatives and talks with Russia about "a new strategic
framework ...relative to the ABM [Anti-Ballistic Missile] Treaty."
Jones made a special point of thanking Europeans on behalf of the U.S.
government and all Americans "for the outpouring of support and
condolences" that came in the aftermath of the September 11th
terrorist attacks."
"We were very grateful also for the support of NATO, of the U.N.
Security Council, of the U.N. General Assembly, of the European Union,
of the OAS [Organization of American States] -- many, many
organizations around the world who have expressed their very solid
support for the global fight against terrorism," Jones said.
Following is a transcript of the program:
(begin transcript)
"DIALOGUE"
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of Broadcast Services
Washington, D.C.
GUEST: Ambassador Elizabeth Jones, Assistant Secretary for European
and Eurasian Affairs, U.S. State Department
TOPIC: AFTERMATH OF SEPTEMBER 11TH ATTACKS ON AMERICA: INTERNATIONAL
SUPPORT IN FIGHTING TERRORISM
POSTS: Lisbon, Paris, Rome
HOST: Rick Foucheux
DATE: September 25, 2001
TIME: 10:00 - 11:00 EDT
(Begin videotape.)
ANNOUNCER: On September 11th, enemies of freedom waged war upon
America as they plunged two hijacked planes into the twin towers of
New York City's World Trade Center, demolishing the center, as well as
over 6,000 lives. Nearly 40 minutes later they crashed yet another
hijacked plane into the United States Pentagon in Washington, D.C.,
causing even more destruction, and claiming even more lives.
If that weren't enough, 20 minutes later another hijacked plane
crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. Analysts believe that plane was
also headed to Washington, D.C., if it hadn't been for the courage of
its passengers who thwarted the hijackers efforts.
The heroism continued as volunteers everywhere -- fire fighters, blood
donors, doctors, counselors and corporate donors, came to the aid of
their fellow Americans.
(End videotape.)
MR. FOUCHEUX: Hello, and welcome to "Dialogue," I'm Rick Foucheux. Who
attacked America? The prime suspect is Saudi-born dissident Osama bin
Laden, the leader of al Qaeda, a loosely knit coalition of terrorist
organizations operating across continent. The organizations practice a
fringe form of Islamic extremism and are responsible for the bombings
of American embassies in Africa in 1998, and the U.S.S. Cole last
year. The Taliban regime in Afghanistan has been providing a safe
haven for bin Laden, as well as sponsoring and supporting terrorist
training camps there.
On September 20th, President Bush addressed Congress and a stricken
nation, proclaiming an all-out war against global terrorism, urging
Afghanistan to release bin Laden, and for every nation to join in the
fight against global terrorism.
PRESIDENT BUSH (from videotape): The hour is coming when America will
act, and you will make us proud. (Applause.) This is not, however,
just America's fight. And what is at stake is not just America's
freedom. This is the world's fight. This is civilization's fight. This
is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance
and freedom. We ask every nation to join us. We will ask, and we will
need, the help of police forces, intelligence services, and banking
systems around the world. The United States is grateful that many
nations and many international organizations have already responded --
with sympathy and with support -- nations from Latin America, to Asia,
to Africa, to Europe, to the Islamic world. Perhaps the NATO Charter
reflects best the attitude of the world: An attack on one is an attack
on all. The civilized world is rallying to America's side. They
understand that if this terror goes unpunished, their own cities,
their own citizens may be next. Terror, unanswered, cannot only bring
down buildings, it can threaten the stability of legitimate
governments. And you know what -- we're not going to allow it.
(Applause.)
MR. FOUCHEUX: Here today to discuss the attack on America and
international cooperation in fighting the war against global
terrorism, is our very distinguished guest, Ambassador Elizabeth
Jones, assistant secretary for European and Eurasian affairs at the
United States Department of State. We also welcome our participants
who are standing by in Lisbon, Paris and Rome. But before we join
them, Ambassador Jones, welcome to the program. We are glad that you
could join us. Do you have some opening remarks?
AMB. JONES: Thank you very much. I am very, very pleased to be have
been invited to speak with you today. I am very interested in your
questions and a dialogue on this very serious subject.
But first I would like to express the gratitude not only of the U.S.
government, but of all Americans, for the outpouring of support and
condolences that came from all of you and all of your countries in
this very terrible moment after September 11th. We were very grateful
also for the support of NATO, of the U.N. Security Council, of the
U.N. General Assembly, of the European Union, of the OAS -- many, many
organizations around the world who have expressed their very solid
support for the global fight against terrorism. Thank you.
MR. FOUCHEUX: And again we thank you for being with us today,
ambassador. Now we join our participants who are standing by in
Lisbon, Paris and Rome. Lisbon, we'll begin with you.
Q: Good morning, Ambassador Jones, this is Eduardo Mascaraniz (ph)
from the Portuguese daily newspaper -- (inaudible) -- Noticias. I
would like to pose to you sort of a general opening question to our
debate. Do you think that the European countries, particularly the
European Union itself, are doing as much as they should be doing
today? And do you think that if there was already a European defense
and security common policy, it would be useful? Because I think that
during the past or nearly the past the United States has doubts about
the European policies.
AMB. JONES: Thank you very much for the opportunity to address that
question. Yes, we do think that the European Union is doing as much as
it can. We are extremely impressed that the European ministers of
interior and justice ministers, the European finance ministers, have
already met. They have agreed on measures on how to close down the
financing that supports terrorist organizations. They have agreed on
measures to increase security around the globe in aircraft. We have
been part of that dialogue in the sense that we have been asked for
our comments on the kinds of things that might be useful. And we are
very, very grateful for the very fast action of the European Union in
addressing so many of these critical issues.
In terms of the second part of your question, on the European Security
and Defense Identity, the United States is very grateful that the
European Union has worked to further that kind of a concept. The
concept is still under discussion. There's still a lot of things that
need to be addressed, but the dialogue is underway in a very positive
vein.
MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you in Lisbon for that question. Let's move now
though to Paris, and your first question or comment.
Q: Yes, good morning, Ambassador Jones, I am Christian Mallau (ph),
senior foreign analyst of France Free Television. I totally agree with
President Bush when he says that they have to track the terrorists'
financial networks, bin Laden and everything, in total cooperation
with the allies. But how are you going to really coordinate all that?
I don't think it's -- you know, it's between talking and acting
sometimes there are big gaps. And the past makes me think that it's
going to be a difficult task ahead. How do you view that?
AMB. JONES: I think there's no question that this will not be easy.
But all of us have been very impressed with the speed with which the
international intelligence organizations, the intelligence
organizations of each country, began to work together really very
quickly to share intelligence, to pool resources -- international
police organizations, justice ministers, as I mentioned earlier, have
been very, very quick to come up with ways to coordinate this fight
against global terrorism.
I think that as the president has said, and others in the United
States government have said, this is a long battle. We know that there
is not a quick solution. It's very important to get at various aspects
of what it is that we need to do, whether it's the finance network,
intelligence to make sure that we are going after the right people;
intelligence to make certain that we are pulling together the evidence
for this terrible crime that was wrought against humanity. And I am
convinced that we are going to be able to do this internationally in
the way that we should.
MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you in Paris. And now hello in Rome.
Q: Yes, it's -- (inaudible) -- newspaper La Stampa -- remember the
great coalition against Saddam some years ago. In this great coalition
against terrorism, what problems do you think we could have?
AMB. JONES: I'm not sure I understood your question. You're asking
what problem we might have in actually building a coalition?
Q: Yes, in this great coalition against terrorism, we could have a
problem, a political problem, with some countries in the world?
AMB. JONES: I think I understand your question well enough to address
it. The effort that is underway to build an international coalition
against global terrorism really is already very successful. The
coalition includes all the countries who stand on the side of fighting
global terrorism. There is a very clear line that has been drawn now
between those who support terrorism or harbor terrorists and those who
have joined the battle against them. That means that any country or
any organization that has decided to support the fight against global
terrorism is part of the coalition. Political support, diplomatic
support, is maybe at one end of the spectrum -- intelligence sharing
is further along that spectrum; providing overflights and cooperation
on the military front is part of that effort; all the way through
joint operations when the time comes to root out the terrorists in
Afghanistan, and to root out terrorists elsewhere in the world. This
is not just a fight against Osama bin Laden. It is a fight against all
forms of terrorism, all terrorists around the world.
I don't think there is any difficulty building that coalition. There
is a distinction to be made I think between the coalition in the Gulf
War -- that was strictly a military coalition -- that was the way that
term was used at that time. The term as it is being used now is a very
broad political international coalition of countries who are prepared
to fight the war against terrorism through any means available to us,
including the financial means we talked about earlier, intelligence
sharing, et cetera.
MR. FOUCHEUX: Thank you in Rome. And now we return to Lisbon for more
questions.
Q: Good morning, Ambassador Jones, my name is -- (inaudible) -- I am
from Lisbon daily Publico. My first question is about the scope of the
American retaliation. Is overthrowing the Taliban regime in
Afghanistan an objective of U.S. retaliation? And what do you expect
it to be replaced with?
AMB. JONES: Thank you for that question. No, the objective is to
ensure that the foreign invader, the new foreign invader of
Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden, is rooted out with his senior
lieutenants. The goal there, as elsewhere in the world, is to ensure
that terrorists no longer can threaten human lives they way they have
been doing for some time, especially including September 11th.
Q: Some European commentators blame U.S. foreign policy, especially in
the Middle East, for breeding the sorts of radical Islamic
fundamentalists who are probably behind the September 11 attacks. How
do you respond to this criticism?
AMB. JONES: U.S. policy in the Middle East, or elsewhere, we do not
think is the cause of this at all. The definition of terrorism is
people who perpetrate acts, criminal acts, against human beings,
against innocent civilians. There are many, many ways to deal with the
issues in the Middle East and elsewhere, through political dialogue,
through diplomacy -- not through killing of innocent people in New
York City. That does not solve any of the issues before us in the
international community. That is a completely wrong assumption.
Q: Ms. Jones, this is Eduardo Mascaraniz (ph) from Lisbon. Can you
please give one evidence that bin Laden is behind these attacks? Just
one?
AMB. JONES: You're asking what is the evidence that bin Laden is
behind this attack?
Q: If you are able to give us one single evidence that bin Laden is
behind these attacks.
AMB. JONES: The intelligence organizations in the United States,
various countries in Europe, Russia, Asia -- all around the world --
are working right now in compiling that evidence. I will leave that to
be published when we are ready to publish it, when the international
community is ready to publish it, which will be very shortly. I do not
know when that will happen. But there is considerable evidence that is
being compiled, and I can assure you that it will be made public and
it will be convincing.
Q: Ambassador Jones, China and Russia have concerns of their own about
Islamic fundamentalism within their borders; namely Xinjiang and
Chechnya. Will the current crisis mean that the U.S. will be more
tolerant, more understanding, towards sometimes brutal ways with which
Russia and China deal with Islamic insurgencies?
AMB. JONES: The issue before us is removing the scourge of terrorism.
We think there are ways to do that that are not harmful, that do not
threaten the citizens of the countries or the areas in which these
terrorists act. The goal is to get rid of the terrorists.
It is clear from the speech that President Putin made yesterday that
he is with the international community in furthering that goal. The
Chinese government has said the same thing. But we believe that there
is also great value to be placed on conducting a dialogue with the
Chechens on the part of the Russian government, and with the Qighurs
on the part of the Chinese government, in order to address the
political issues, the social issues that have concerned those
minorities in those areas.
Q: Will the U.S. retaliation include military resources of its NATO
allies, or is this still being discussed?
AMB. JONES: The final planning is still underway. Certainly we are
very grateful for the support of our NATO allies. It was unprecedented
that NATO brought forward Article 5. It's the first time in the
history of NATO that that has happened, the principle of collective
self-defense. I can't tell you exactly what will be asked of any of
our NATO allies, or of any of our other friends and allies who have
joined the grand coalition against terrorism. But we will be -- we are
in consultation with our allies, with others throughout the world, and
we are very grateful for the support that they have offered up till
now.
Q: The Taliban regime (reported ?) yesterday a link with the Afghan
situation and bin Laden and the African situation with the Middle East
situation. How does the United States intend to deal with this double
angle?
AMB. JONES: There's no question that the issues in the Middle East are
in urgent need of attention. The international community is working
very closely with the Palestinians and with the Israelis to solve the
Middle East problems. The European Union troika is on its way there.
There are various other representatives that are in consultation or in
touch with both sides in the Middle East. That is a completely
separate matter from the terrorism that has been wrought by the bin
Laden organization al Qaeda against Americans, against the embassies,
the two American embassies in Africa. There are threats against
various of our friends and allies around the world by this
organization, and it is time to put an end to that.
Q: (Off mike) -- well known refugee problem. How does the United
States intend to support dealings with the refugee problem, especially
in Pakistan and other surrounding countries?
AMB. JONES: The refugee problem from refugees from Afghanistan is a
very serious problem. It's been a very serious problem for over a
dozen years. The United States government has provided $173 million
worth of assistance to Afghanistan, to the people of Afghanistan, in
order to address the very, very serious humanitarian problems in
Afghanistan brought about by the terrible drought that has been
underway there for several years now, and by the difficulties, the
very severe difficulties that come during the winter when it's
extremely cold and when the weather is so bad.
There are U.S. organizations that are providing food assistance to the
refugees moving across the border into Pakistan, and there is a lot of
discussion underway right now as to how to do that for the Afghans who
remain in Afghanistan.
I would like to emphasize here that the international fight against
terrorism is by no means against the Afghan people. It is against
Osama bin Laden and the al Qaeda organization.
Q: In 2000, the State Department included Iran among the list of
countries that are among major sponsors of terrorism. Right now the
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw in in Tehran talking to Iranian
leaders. Will this crisis mark a new relationship between the United
States and Iran?
AMB. JONES: I don't know whether there will be a new relationship
between the United States and Iran. I think the important thing is to
stay in touch with our friends and allies who can have conversations
with the Iranian government, in order to underscore the importance of
their stopping their support for terrorist organizations, such as
Hezbollah and Hamas.
Q: One last question for you, Ms. Jones. According to you, from now on
what will change in the relationship between Russia and the United
States and between Russia, the United States and the European Union?
AMB. JONES: There is no question that President Putin has joined the
rest of the international community in this war against terrorism, the
global war against terrorism. But I think it's important to keep in
mind that the United States and Russia were already forging a new
relationship, starting principally with the meeting between President
Putin and President Bush in Ljubljana in July, and followed up by the
subsequent meeting in Genoa. There are other meetings that will be
underway this fall as well between the two leaders.
Russia has stood clearly on the side of the fight against terrorism;
but the United States' relationship with Russia is much broader than
that -- we have any number of economic initiatives underway; we are
working in terms of a new strategic framework between the United
States and Russia relative to the ABM Treaty. We look forward to
enhancing the cooperation and strengthening the cooperation between
the United States and Russia, just as we are very much enthusiastic
and supportive of the enhancement of the relationship between Russia
and the European Union.
MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you in Lisbon for those questions. Paris, hello
once again.
Q: (Off mike) -- war, which is different from a traditional war -- it
was the case 10 years ago in the Gulf War against Iraq. So it is going
to be an intelligence war, underground war? So you put this coalition
up? Right now you are building up this coalition. But who are,
according to you, your most reliable allies in this intelligence war?
Are they the British? What do you expect from other countries who are
allies, but not so good allies as the British -- I speak of France, or
Italy or other European countries?
AMB. JONES: We have an extremely good exchange of intelligence and
fundamental cooperation from many, many, many countries around the
world. I wouldn't like to say that one is ahead of the other, because
the fact of the matter is the terrible thing that happened to so many
of us on September 11th -- after all, there were more than 30
countries who citizens were brutally killed in the World Trade Center
on September 11th -- and I would like to take the opportunity at this
moment to express the condolences of the American people for that
terrible loss of life from so many of your countries as well.
The strength of cooperation between our intelligence services, and
among all the intelligence services, has been really overwhelming. And
it has been clear to all of us that we individually know a lot more
than we thought, if we can only put all the pieces together that will
help us draw a picture of the al Qaeda organization and other
terrorist organizations, so that we know how to go after them, both in
terms of eliminating them, but also in terms of eliminating their
sources of financial support.
Q: One tough question, Mrs. Ambassador. As a friend of the United
States, and being myself a representative journalist from the
Occidental world, I just wonder if today all of us united we are not
paying the price of some of our political and strategic mistakes in
the past. Let me be clear. Don't you think that the roots of our
problem today date back for instance to 1978, when at the G-8 or -- it
was not G-8 -- it was the G-7 summit in -- (inaudible) -- former U.S.
President Jimmy Carter with French former President Giscard d'Estaing,
James Callahan for Great Britain, Chancellor Schmidt for Germany,
decided to drop -- to stop backing the Iranian regime of the shah and
decided to deal with Ayatollah Khomeneni, whom they did not know, and
saying I think that Khomeneni was the beginning of the making of
Muslim fundamentalist groups all over the world. And then the same
Jimmy Carter decided to back Muslim fundamentalists against the
pro-Soviet regime of Kabul in Afghanistan. So don't you think we
should have now drawn the lessons of the past and have a more (clear
?) foreign policy in this area?
AMB. JONES: I don't agree with you. I think you are drawing
conclusions that are difficult to draw. First of all, just a point
that I think is important. The international support for the
mujaheddin in Afghanistan predated any appearance of bin Laden or some
of the -- some of his organization in Afghanistan. That was -- they
came later. But that's almost neither here nor there. The important
thing is that it is completely unacceptable in the international
community for there to be organizations whose goal is to kill
civilians. That is unacceptable.
Q: Now, I have been told -- I was recently in Washington when we saw
the president -- I was with my own president, President Chirac. I have
been told that there are some people inside the U.S. administration
who would be attempted to finish with Saddam Hussein -- the job which
has not been finished by former president George Bush, the father. Is
that -- (inaudible) -- or are we going to focus on Afghanistan, or do
some people have in mind to really get rid of Saddam Hussein too, to
put that on the table?
AMB. JONES: No. The goal here is to go after international terrorist
organizations. And we are not -- this is not against Afghanistan --
it's against the al Qaeda organization that happens to be harbored by
the Taliban in Afghanistan. This is not a fight against the Afghan
people by any means at all. It's also not a fight against Muslim
peoples or the Islamic religion. This is a fight against terrorists.
What religion they are or what nationality they are is irrelevant. The
point is that they are using completely unacceptable means to make
what they call their political -- provide their political message.
That is a completely abhorrent way to provide a political message. It
is unacceptable, whatever the reasons are, to kill civilians for
whatever goals these organizations may espouse.
Q: Do you think that all these military operations which are underway,
and which everybody understands, and we agree, might put into danger
some of the moderate Arabic regimes -- and I am thinking of President
Mubarak of Egypt, whom I interviewed yesterday, or King Abdullah of
Jordan, who are faithful, reliable allies of United States or the
Occidental world? And they have to face too inside their own
respective countries the rise of Muslim fundamentalism. So are you
surprised when they say they don't want -- they are very careful --
they don't want to give a blank check to the coalition or to the
United States.
AMB. JONES: There is nobody who is being asked to provide a blank
check for anything. All that we are asking -- all
that the international community is asking is that countries take
sides. You're either against terrorism and against harboring against
terrorists, or you are not. There is no question that these are
difficult issues for many countries in the world. The two countries
you mentioned, Jordan and Egypt -- President Mubarak and the King of
Jordan are very close friends and allies of the United States, and we
are in very close conversations, very detailed conversations with them
about how best to prosecute the global fight against terrorism. The
United States will be extremely careful to work in ways that support
the international goals of the international community.
MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you in Paris for those questions. We move along
now to Rome once again.
Q: Good morning, Ambassador Jones, (inaudible) -- 5, Italian TV. I
just wanted to ask you something about the war. This is going to be --
President Bush said that this is going to be a very long war -- could
be a very long war -- it is going to be a different war, a war using
the intelligence forces. But I was -- I am asking now is this going to
be a fighting war as well? I mean, are you thinking of invading
Afghanistan if this is necessary? I mean, are you -- how is the United
States thinking of getting bin Laden?
AMB. JONES: I am not really able to address military planning. First
of all, the military planning is still underway. Secondly, this isn't
an invasion of a country. This is an effort to root out terrorists in
various parts of the world, including in parts of Afghanistan. But
there is no talk of invasion. That would be inappropriate; it's not
necessary, and it's not the way the United States and its allies and
friends around the world are going to operate.
Q: Do you think it's possible that some American troops, or maybe
troops of different countries, could go inside the Afghanistan
territory?
AMB. JONES: I think the best way to address that president is the way
the vice president -- Vice President Cheney addressed it a little
while ago. This is going to be a war in the shadows. I can't tell you
-- I honestly don't know exactly how it is going to prosecuted. It has
to be done very carefully. It has to be done deliberately. The focus
now is on making sure that we have all of the intelligence that speaks
to the horrible crime that was committed on September 11th, and the
crimes that have been committed previously against the two American
embassies and against the U.S.S. Cole. There are many other elements
to the al Qaeda organization that are very worrisome. We are under
very intense discussions with many, many countries around the world
through their intelligence services and police services to determine
what else might be planned, what else might be underway, so that we
can fight back those battles as well -- especially before they kill
any more innocent human beings.
Q: Yes, ambassador, a question about the financial support for
terrorists. Have you any evidence for support of any government, any
countries to bin Laden?
AMB. JONES: As I mentioned earlier, there is a lot of work underway to
determine that. President Bush just signed an executive order
yesterday to put into place many measures to go after exactly that,
the basis of the financial support for terrorist organizations. It's
the kind of thing that the European Union Treasury ministers, finance
ministers, addressed in their meeting last week, and will continue to
address. There's a package -- they have put forward a package of
legislative changes in order to address those questions.
I think it will be very important to use all of the tools that we can
come up with, that we can devise, in order to get at the financial
support of these networks. Whether there is a particular government
behind all this, that still remains to be determined through the
intelligence services that are working together now.
Q: President Bush is trying to work out a sort of coalition with the
ex-Soviet republics. How is it working out? Are they going to offer
logistic support to the United States?
AMB. JONES: Those discussions are very much underway. Those
discussions are not discussions that I am at liberty to reveal. But it
is clear that the countries of Central Asia, the Caucasus, the
Balkans, Ukraine -- all of these countries very much put themselves on
the side of the line in support of the international fight against
global terrorism. But exactly what each country is prepared to do
remains a subject between the allies and them.
Q: Ambassador Jones, how is it possible that CIA and the American
intelligence had no evidence at all of what was going to happen? I
mean, there was a lack of something, maybe of the information, of
responsibility, of someone -- I mean, a lot of people were living in
the United States, they were training. And I heard, and it was in the
newspapers, that somebody know that or heard that there would have
been an attack in the United States in maybe New York or whatever. I
mean, is it possible that the CIA didn't know anything about it?
AMB. JONES: I think there is no question that all of us wish,
including our colleagues in intelligence agencies -- all of us wish
that it would have been possible to prevent the attacks that occurred
on September 11th -- there's no question about that.
I think the thing that needs to be focused on now is how to work
together more comprehensively in the future to prevent any recurrence
of the terrible attacks that happened on the 11th of September. That's
where the focus should be. That's where the focus is.
Q: Mrs. Ambassador, are you working to a political coalition of
Afghanistan parties, democratic parties, to fight a political war
against Taliban, or after the Taliban regime?
AMB. JONES: We have had some programs in place in order to support
democracy, to support pluralism in Afghanistan, through development of
non-governmental organizations, through some of the education work
that we have been doing. It's been harder to do since the Taliban came
in. But that has not stopped the effort to provide assistance to the
Afghan people as best as we have been able to.
Q: (inaudible) -- ex-king -- do you think he can play a role, a
political role in the future of Afghanistan?
AMB. JONES: I don't know if he can play a role. Certainly we think
it's important for Afghans, particularly ones who have some
international name, to speak out at this time, to address the question
of the future of Afghanistan, to address the question of the kind of
government that should be available, that should prevail in
Afghanistan. The Afghan people have been through years and years of
warfare. They deserve a good government. They deserve peace. They
deserve to have the freedom to go about their work lives and their
personal lives without the kinds of threats that they have been under
for many years now.
Q: Probably bin Laden knew the response of the United States and of
all Europe and many other countries would have been very, very strong.
Now, you do expect a retaliation for this from bin Laden and his
organization? I mean, how are you facing this?
AMB. JONES: It's frankly very difficult to talk in hypotheticals. The
focus right now is on finding ways to root out terrorism, terrorist
organizations throughout the world -- this one included, the al Qaeda
organization as well. Of course the goal is to eliminate them so that
they can't do anything again either to the Afghan people, to any of
the peoples in the region, to Americans, to Europeans, to Asians, so
that they cannot again threaten to kill or kill innocent civilians.
Q: Do you have any timing of when there is going to be a sort of
attack -- people say it may be in the weekend -- or is it going to be
soon? Or do you think it will take time for the coalition to be
stronger?
AMB. JONES: The coalition is already very strong. The coalition has
already begun the attack, if you want to put it that way, have long
since begun. It began right after September 11th with the U.N.
Security Council passing a very, very strong resolution. The U.N.
General Assembly's first resolution condemned the acts of terror and
allowed for the international support that has followed. NATO,
European Union, et cetera, have already joined the coalitions, as have
many, many, many countries around the world. The kinds of actions that
have already been undertaken by finance ministers, by justice
ministers, by President Bush yesterday in signing the executive order
-- that's all part of the attack.
MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you very much. Let's go back now to Lisbon once
more for another question.
Q: Ambassador Jones, as President Bush said, we are in this for the
long haul. But how long will it be? Will arresting bin Laden bring
some sort of closure, or is the Western world into some sort of new
Cold War -- one that goes on without ordinary citizens noticing, and
will probably go on for the rest of our lives?
AMB. JONES: No, this is by no means a new cold war. This is an
international effort to end terrorism. One of my colleagues compared
it with the international effort centuries ago in getting rid of
pirates -- pirates on the high seas. It took a long time. But the
international -- the countries who needed to use the high seas safely
got together and after many years were able to succeed in getting rid
of the Barbary pirates.
I can't tell you when this war is going to end. I have no idea. I
don't think anybody has any idea. But the bottom line is that it is
time to end the threat of terrorists. There is no longer room for any
terrorist organizations in the world.
Q: Ambassador Jones, being responsible for European affairs in the
Bush administration, would you say that after posing so suddenly the
focus on the security environment the European Union should put on
hold their enlargement process and rethink its own policy?
AMB. JONES: To be very honest, that's not the kind of thing that I
would really like to address. It's not the business of the United
States what the European Union decides to do about enlargement or not.
However, the United States has been very supportive of the enlargement
process. But it's not an appropriate time I think for me to comment on
what the European Union decides to do about that.
MR. FOUCHEUX: All right, we thank you very much in Lisbon. Let's
return to Paris once more.
Q: Ambassador Jones, one of the Islamic terrorist nests in Europe is
Germany, and especially alluding to the mosque of the city of Hamburg,
where between '79 and '81 the imam of the mosque was former Iranian
President Rafsanjani. From '81 to '83 the imam of the mosque is
president of Iran today, Ayatollah Khatami. And I see that Iran is
trying to play with United States today as soft game, mild games, mild
eyes, because they hate the Taliban, they hate the Afghan regime. So
they are on your black list. Can you trust the Iranians, this regime
which has been one of the financial backers, fuelers of Muslim
fundamentalism and Islamic terrorism?
AMB. JONES: This is one of those incidences in which what is done is
what is important, and what the international community will be
watching is whether Iran does sever its support, end its support, to
terrorist organizations.
Q: Ambassador Jones, what are the risks, if there are any, of this
entire operation? I mean, what are we afraid of?
AMB. JONES: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the beginning of your question.
What are the risks?
Q: If there are any in this entire operation. I mean, what is the
United States -- I mean, there are some risks doing this -- could be
like you know if we fail something, what we shouldn't fail in this
sort of unusual war.
AMB. JONES: I think the risks are far greater if we sit back and say
that there isn't anything that can be done. These are relentless
organizations, relentless people. We have all seen the kinds of things
that they are prepared to do. We have all agreed that it's
unacceptable for them to be allowed to continue. And it's time to root
them out. It's time to end their ability to function.
The risks as I say are far greater to inaction.
MR. FOUCHEUX: Let's return once again to Lisbon.
Q: Ambassador Jones, let me go back again to the position of some
moderate Arab countries, or Islamic countries, some of them in
northern Africa. Similarly, European countries, like Muslim of course
-- (inaudible) -- European Union -- are talking to the moderate
Islamic countries, explaining to them that this is not a crusade, a
new crusade against Islam obviously. But according to the United
States, will this be better for these countries to stay behind the
scenes or actually come forward and show to the Islamic world what's
-- (inaudible) -- this?
AMB. JONES: You are speaking about countries that have already taken a
position. They have all put themselves on the side of the countries of
the international group that has decided that terrorism is a terrible
thing to allow to continue. How they express that support, the
elements of their participation, is entirely up to them. The important
thing is that they are on the side of all of the countries that are
fighting global terrorism.
Q: Ambassador Jones, going back to the issue of closure on the war
against terrorism, will dismantling bin Laden's al Qaeda be the end of
it, or is it going to be just the first step in this new war?
AMB. JONES: When we talk about a global war against terrorism, it
means a global war against all terrorism. It doesn't just mean the al
Qaeda organization. So that won't be the end of it, no.
Q: This fight against global terrorism will imply I am sure tremendous
efforts. Do you think it will still be possible to have a focus on
helping the developing countries? And what will they think about this
situation if the focus goes elsewhere -- and focus on the efforts
naturally?
AMB. JONES: There continues to be a tremendous focus on the
humanitarian issues, the democracy issues, the economic issues that
are important to many, many countries around the world. That is a
very, very strong focus of the international community, including the
United States. For instance, there is a tremendous effort underway to
make sure that Afghan refugees and Afghans inside the country are able
to eat. That's just something that is underway right this minute. But
we have -- the international community, the United States, have huge
programs all over the world to help those countries help themselves
become better citizens of the world, to become -- to be able to enjoy
the fruits of freedom -- freedom of choice, choosing their own
governments, having the economic means to enjoy prosperity, to be able
to earn a decent wage. There are huge programs underway, and none of
that focus will change. If anything, it will increase.
MR. FOUCHEUX: And we return to Paris once more for another question.
Q: Yes, Ambassador Jones, do you think it's probably a good thing that
the U.S. military presence might be a little bit longer than expected
in this area -- Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India -- if you have a way
of controlling the evolution of the situation? I mean, Pakistan is
having the first Muslim nuclear bomb. India is having the bomb too. So
it would be a way for the United States and its allies to control
these two warring countries in certain ways, and at the same time all
this area is oil road which is at stake at the same time.
AMB. JONES: No, that's completely wrong. You are very much overdrawing
what's going on here. There's no discussion of American troops being
in India, Pakistan or Afghanistan, certainly not in any long-term way.
There may be use of transit points or something like that. But that
would be completely overdrawing the situation here. There is no effort
underway whatsoever for the United States to take advantage of this
situation in any way related to oil, related to anything else. That
would be a ridiculous assertion. This is a battle against terrorism.
It is going to be done in the shadows. It's not going to be -- it is
probably not going to be a major all-out campaign such as we saw in
the Gulf War. This is different. This is what the president has said
over and over again. It is what the secretary of Defense has said over
and again, what the secretary of State has said over and again. It's
what NATO has said over and over again. This is not the same thing.
MR. FOUCHEUX: We are just about to finish our program, ambassador.
Would you care to make some closing comments before we get out of
here?
AMB. JONES: Thank you very much. I really appreciate your questions. I
appreciate the honesty of your questions, and I hope you appreciate
the efforts we have underway to try to be as frank and direct as
possible. Thank you.
MR. FOUCHEUX: We thank you very much for your time in joining us
today. It was a fascinating conversation. For more information on the
war against global terrorism, access the World Wide Web at
www.usinfo.state.gov.
A special thanks once again to Ambassador Elizabeth Jones for joining
us today, as well as all of our participants in Lisbon, Paris and
Rome, and to all of you watching. From Washington, for "Dialogue," I
am Rick Foucheux, good day.
(end transcript)
(Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: http://usinfo.state.gov)
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