State Dept. Noon Briefing, Friday, Oct. 6, 2000
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 6, 2000 2:30 P.M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED)
MR. BOUCHER: Okay, I'll be glad to follow up and take questions on
this or other topics.
Q: Could you follow up on that, Richard, on where he might be and the
video that came out of there this morning and whether you can tell
anything from that?
MR. BOUCHER: I think we've had a lot of different reports of where
that video was taken with Foreign Minister Ivanov. As the Secretary
mentioned, she hasn't yet had a chance to speak with Foreign Minister
Ivanov to hear from him directly yet. So, no, we don't know exactly
where he is located at this moment.
Q: Ivanov, by meeting Milosevic and essentially mediating and
negotiating with him, seems to have given him a new lease of life.
And, also, I see from statements he made after that he is now casting
doubt on whether Russia really recognizes Mr. Kostunica as president.
Do you feel that the Russians are playing -- well, what do you think
about -- what do you feel about the way the Russians are playing this?
MR. BOUCHER: I think it's good that they acknowledged, recognized,
that Kostunica won a victory in the presidential election. I know that
was the direct quote today, that they recognized that he did win the
victory in the presidential election. Subsequently, there have been
other statements. It's good that they acknowledged that. It's
important that people move forward from that acknowledgement and
determine what the conclusions are and accept what the reality is. So,
you know, we'll continue with the Russians, to work with the Russians,
and continue to see if they can move ahead in this regard.
And, really, the decisions on who plays a role and who is the
president and things like that are best left to the Serb people, and
they seem to have already made their decisions both at the ballot box
and on the streets.
Q: Richard, more about Milosevic and whether he belongs in The Hague
or not. This government has said for many years that he needed to be
out of power -- I can't remember exactly what the phraseology was --
and in The Hague. But that's not being said right now by this
government. And the Secretary said it's important that he be out of
power.
Do you still place the same amount of importance to his being in The
Hague?
MR. BOUCHER: Our policy remains exactly the same. It hasn't changed.
The Secretary talked about accountability. We all know how that should
happen. The policy has not changed.
Q: Richard, a lot of Members of Congress are wondering what steps you
are prepared to take to do that. And even more so than Republicans,
Democrats have been even more vocal when asked, that it really sets a
dangerous precedent for future issues. You can't accuse a head of
state of genocide unless you are prepared to do something about it. So
Members of Congress are saying, what is the Administration prepared to
now do?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I am sure the appropriate steps will happen at the
appropriate time. What I am saying at this moment -- the policy has
not changed -- as the Secretary and others have said the first step is
to remove him from power. The Serbian people seem to have done that.
Q: What are those appropriate steps?
MR. BOUCHER: Again, consistent with the policy, to follow up on that,
but at the appropriate time.
Q: Richard, what would it take for you to clearly conclude that he is
out of power? Are you looking for a statement, or something - some
sign - or what explicitly?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I think there is two aspects of that. The first is
that the Serbian people have clearly decided who they want for their
president, and what kind of government they want. So the first step is
to see them carry through with the process of installing that new
government, taking over the reins of power and putting people in the
positions so that they can function as a government.
The second is to see that Milosevic has no further role. Now, clearly,
the way the Secretary has explained sanctions-lifting is that what we
want to see is a democratic government in place in Serbia, and then we
can proceed to lift the sanctions.
Q: Richard, I presume you are familiar with the song, "Won't Get
Fooled Again." What are you going to do if the new boss turns out to
be the same as the old boss, particularly in perhaps keeping on
members of Milosevic's circle who were on the US and EU visa ban, if
the same people are in control of the security apparatus under a
Kostunica regime?
MR. BOUCHER: I mean, all these things have "ifs", so --
Q: I know they are, but --
MR. BOUCHER: If, if, if, if, if. If something happens, we will deal
with it appropriately. What is clear is what the Secretary said --
Q: (Inaudible) -- laid out kind of a road map of how they can get rid
of the sanctions?
MR. BOUCHER: What is clear is what the Secretary said. What is clear
-- yes, the Secretary is - I mean, we haven't had a direct contact.
What the Secretary has clearly said is if a democratic government is
in power, if Kostunica is in place and he is allowed to form a
government and control the reins of power, then we will lift the
sanctions.
Q: How are they supposed to know? I mean, you say fine, if a
democratic government is in power, but what are the actual steps that
--
MR. BOUCHER: Matt, you have got a thousand different variations on the
theme, I'm sure, that could constitute that happening and not
happening. I don't think I can deal with every single one now. The
point is that we look forward to this. The Serbian people have clearly
decided what they want. They want this democratic government to take
over with Kostunica as the president. And when that happens, we will
move to lift sanctions.
Q: But don't you see the problem? Because we don't know, so the Serbs
obviously don't know. Kostunica doesn't know what exactly it is that
they have to do, other than getting Milosevic out of power, to make
the US think that there has been a democratic transition. Do you not
--
MR. BOUCHER: I think we have put it in terms of "once a democratic
government is installed." And that is the steps that they need to do.
Now, granted, given that Milosevic has controlled the machinery, given
that Milosevic has controlled security services, given that he has had
a great deal of personal control on the economy, there is going to be
a lot for this government to do. But we believe that having a new
government in place that has democratic credentials is enough for us
to take the steps necessary to lift the sanctions. And as those steps
proceed, we would frankly like to work with a government to make sure
that we don't open up any loopholes for Milosevic or cronies to take
profit from the situation.
Q: Can you give us some context in terms of just how extraordinary the
Administration may view this? I mean, a week ago we were even
discussing the likelihood of Milosevic even acknowledging that he may
have been out-polled in the elections, and now so much has changed.
Can you share with us what some of the senior administration
officials, and even the President's views are in terms of how
unexpected this was, or was there some anticipation that this might
happen?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, what do you mean "we", Kimosabi?
(Laughter.)
MR. BOUCHER: A week ago, we were discussing how he might not do this,
how he might not do that. A week ago, we were discussing how the
Serbian people had spoken in an election, how they had decided who
they want their leaders to be, and how we felt their voice should be
recognized, not only outside of Yugoslavia but within Yugoslavia. A
week ago, we were saying that they needed - they decided on democratic
government, and they deserved it every bit as much as anybody else in
Europe. So, a week ago, we were saying that this should happen. And we
are glad it did.
Q: So you weren't surprised by this?
MR. BOUCHER: This is one of the many possibilities that we considered,
and we are glad it turned out to be this one.
Q: Did the Secretary speak also to the Greek Foreign Minister,
Yeoryios Papandreou, during this crisis?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, since you asked the question, and rather than
getting 23 different questions, let me go through the list of people
the Secretary has spoken to today. This doesn't include the half-dozen
or so that she spoke to - who she talked to from the airplane last
night, which also included Foreign Minister Papandreou at least once
last night from the airplane.
But, today, she has also spoken to the Secretary General of NATO, the
Foreign Minister of Bulgaria, European High Representative Solana,
Foreign Minister Kukan of Slovakia, Foreign Minister Papandreou again
of Greece, Foreign Minister Van Aartsen of the Netherlands, Foreign
Minister Fischer of Germany. She talked to Foreign Minister Dini last
night after she got off the airplane. I think that was about 1:00 a.m.
She talked this afternoon to President Havel of Czechoslovakia. She is
talking to European Union Commissioner Chris Patten, and the Foreign
Minister of Romania.
And my guess is that by now the total has started to increase. She has
been keeping in very close touch with people throughout Europe and
throughout the region in order to coordinate our actions, compare
notes on the situation.
Q: Richard, there seems to be a surprising lack of contact with Russia
at this critical time. Why is that? Is it just schedules, or - and how
- what importance does the United States ascribe to the
Russian-Yugoslav role? Does the United States sort of concede that
that is sort of the primary bilateral relationship and that you need
to sort of wait for the Russians to move, or what is going on with
that?
MR. BOUCHER: Well, I suppose the Russians could have an important role
if they wanted to stand on the side of the Serbian people and work
with them in this situation. Certainly we don't begrudge them any
influence or friendship with the Serbian people; we think everybody
should be in there supporting and supporting the decision they have
made.
But the fact is that things are moving forward very quickly. We are
trying to keep up with events. We are trying to see that a new
government can get in place and stabilized and that we do whatever we
can to help, both in terms of lifting sanctions and organizing
international support. And we're working with all parties to try to
get them to be part of that effort because we think the new government
does deserve that kind of recognition and that kind of cooperation. So
anybody who wants to be there can be there, but things are moving
ahead pretty quickly.
Q: Why no contact? I mean, why -- I mean, that seems it would be the
first call you'd make.
MR. BOUCHER: I mean, they have explained it. The Secretary did reach
out to Ivanov. They have explained it as being first the visit to
India and coming back from that, and then this immediate visit to
Belgrade. As I think the Secretary mentioned this morning to several
-- Foreign Minister Ivanov did pass a message saying he would get in
touch after he left Belgrade, so maybe this afternoon or evening she
might be able to do that. I guess he would just say he is busy for the
moment. But we'll see. When they call, we'll see what we can do with
them. We continue to want to work with Russia.
Q: You mentioned you hadn't had contact yet with Kostunica. How do you
envision the process of establishing contact with this new
government-in-formation? Will that be through the Europeans primarily
and then the US, or what are the plans?
MR. BOUCHER: Some of the Europeans already have embassies in Belgrade
and have people there. We would expect to establish direct and normal
contacts with the new democratic government of Serbia as soon as we
could. It may take a few days, but we will move in that direction. I
think, in the meantime, they do know from our public statements and
the Secretary's statements that a new democratic government has our
full support, and we will do everything we can to cooperate with them.
Q: Richard, Kostunica has said himself in the last week or so that all
of this talk by the US about their view that Milosevic should
definitely be in The Hague might be a little bit counterproductive to
the stability of their society. And many Yugoslavs also have said that
even while Milosevic did lose the election, he did get a significant
number of votes in the country, and that by insisting that Milosevic
be in The Hague, that could be the divisive and polarizing to the
society.
What if he comes to the UN and the US and the European allies and
says, I really don't think this will benefit the healing of this
society right now? Is the US willing to wait on getting him into The
Hague?
MR. BOUCHER: That is a "what if" question, but I would say again our
position on this hasn't changed. The Secretary said that just a few
moments ago.
Q: Richard, in terms of the Russians again, it seems like they are in
a difficult position here. In the speech yesterday, Kostunica said the
Serbian people - the Yugoslav people - should be celebrating, not in
Washington and Moscow, lumping Washington and Moscow together. That
seems like a message in itself. Might the Russians have a difficult
relationship with him? This was obviously before Ivanov met with him
this morning.
MR. BOUCHER: I mean, that's anybody's guess what the relationship will
turn out to be. As I said, the Serbian people are moving in a certain
direction. We have pledged our full support for them to move in that
direction. We are looking - we expect and know that many others in the
international community are on the same foot. We and the European
Union have both talked about not only seeing - recognizing him as
President, but moving forward on lifting sanctions, moving forward to
provide support for a new democratic government.
So there are many, many countries moving in a certain direction, and
I'm sure anybody that wants to be there can help out. What the
eventual relationships turn out to be -- we have relations with a lot
of governments that we don't always agree with. We wouldn't expect to
have 100 percent agreement with any particular new government, and I
suppose that applies to the Russians as well.
Q: Richard, on the diplomatic rung, or the relations front, are there
any plans being made now for anyone from this building or anywhere
else to go at least to the region to prepare themselves to begin
making contact with Kostunica and his party? And, two, was the
protecting power ever sorted out after Kosovo?
MR. BOUCHER: I don't know. I have to check on that. Phil may know. No.
So we don't have a protective power there.
Q: So you don't have any idea if the embassy is still together, if it
still has a roof on it or anything like that?
MR. BOUCHER: No. We'll have to see. And as far as establishing
contact, I'm sure we'll look to how to do this in the coming days.
But, as far as I'm aware, there has been no decision on how we are
going to proceed.
Q: For a year and a half, the mantra has been that Milosevic should be
out of power, out of Yugoslavia, and in The Hague. And when we ask you
about the war crimes issue, you say, well, our policy hasn't changed
and you sort of move on. I don't think you've mentioned the word
"Hague." And you're leaving at least me with the impression that you
are sort of de-emphasizing this war crimes business for the time
being.
MR. BOUCHER: No, I'm not changing the policy. I'm telling you again
and again the policy is the same way it has always been. You are very
familiar with it. Leave it at that.
Q: Richard, what will Kostunica have to do in order for the US to lift
the sanctions, seeing as Britain is talking about lifting the
sanctions almost immediately? Will there have to be some performance
on the part of his government to - in order to have there be some kind
of action?
MR. BOUCHER: Didn't we kind of do ten minutes of that ten minutes ago?
I think I'll leave it at that, what we said before.
Q: What do you make of the Army's continued silence on the course of
events in Yugoslavia? Is this cause for concern? Or the US sees it as
simply a matter of time?
MR. BOUCHER: Don't frankly know exactly know what to make of that. We
certainly do believe the situation remains delicate, that we do look
to see it sort of consolidated and stabilized as soon as possible, and
we would hope that all elements of society would support the duly
elected people to take over the government. So we will just have to
see how that evolves. But we are certainly following the situation
very closely.
Q: On that, what is your - what are the reports from the region in
terms of just how much his support from political allies and the media
has crumbled? Is the media now completely taken over? Are all local
and radio, television - are they all now no longer loyal to Milosevic?
And how many political allies is there a sense that he may still have?
MR. BOUCHER: The political side of it seems to change moment to
moment, and we do follow that closely. There are some recent reports,
I think, of various Socialist parties reconsidering their positions.
The media - I don't know if I can say 100 percent - but to a very,
very great extent is almost completely in the hands of independent
people, independents who will report the news as opposed to the
propaganda.
Q: Richard, I'm going to get back to the Hague issue. This morning, in
Pristina, Carla del Ponte said that she expected very soon to extend
the indictments of Milosevic to include atrocities committed during
the Bosnian-Croatian wars. Do you think that Milosevic should be held
accountable for those as well as for the things that happened in
Kosovo?
MR. BOUCHER: That is a decision for the tribunal to make. We have made
clear our support for the tribunal.
Q: But do you think that he should be held accountable for alleged -
for crimes that he may have ordered - atrocities that he may have
ordered or committed in Bosnia and Croatia as well as in Kosovo?
MR. BOUCHER: Once again, that is a decision for the tribunal to make,
and we have said repeatedly we expect --
Q: No, it's not a decision - it's a decision by the tribunal to indict
him, but it's a --
MR. BOUCHER: Well, how else does a tribunal hold somebody accountable?
I mean, let's not play with words here.
Q: But do you think that he should be held accountable for any crimes
that he may have ordered in Croatia, in Bosnia, as well as the ones
that he has already been indicted for in Kosovo?
MR. BOUCHER: We have said - the Secretary has repeatedly said we
believe in accountability; we support the tribunal. And I don't think
those were qualified geographically or in any other way.
Q: Did the $5 million --
Q: Can we switch to the Middle East, please, and can you address this
--
Q: Can I ask you a question - Charlie, I'm sorry, I want to do Middle
East too - but does the $5 million reward still apply for Milosevic?
MR. BOUCHER: It is part of our policy; it hasn't changed.
(The briefing was concluded at 3:10 p.m.)
10/6/00
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