KHETAGUROV: I would like to start with the statement made recently by President of the Ingush Republic Aushev. He asserted that there are 211,000 refugees from Grozny on the territory of Ingushetia and federal authorities have stopped supplying them with bread and hot meals. I would not like to comment fully on his statement for Interfax - there were two of them; one was made on March 21 and the other on March 23. I just want to say that in my view these statements are incorrect and largely unfounded.
So, what we are talking about? Indeed, a large number of citizens of the Russian Federation who have left the territory of Chechnya due to the conduct of the anti-terrorist operation there has come to be concentrated on the territory of Ingushetia. Estimates vary. According to our estimate based on the data of the Ingush Migration Service, 171,000 citizens registered according to form No. 7 are staying on the territory of Ingushetia. We use this figure to make calculations together with the Finance Ministry to provide them with food and compensation for housing. Ruslan Aushev writes that there are 211,000 such people in Ingushetia; however, this is an unconfirmed figure. Yesterday those who watched the programme by Lyubimov "Here and Now" heard the statement made by the Prime Minister of Ingushetia, in which he gave the figure of 280,000 refugees. However, when asked where these people were, he said that they either did not want to or had some other reasons not to be registered. Naturally, we cannot take these people into account and, correspondingly, we can't supply them with foodstuffs. So, as of today, calculations are made proceeding from the figure of 171,000 and yesterday there were slightly more of them. The trend towards refugees' outflow begins ever increasingly to manifest itself, although there are additional citizens who come to the territory of Ingushetia. Nevertheless, the outflow is intensive enough. In particular, there were 24,000 people in Grozny, which I visited on March 8 and last Monday, there were already 35,000 people there.
Now about the statements which were made. The Federal Migration Service, upon agreement with the government of Ingushetia, sends monetary funds to it. The government of the republic, upon agreement with the local bakery and public catering organisations, supply food to people living in temporary refugee camps and together with Ingush families, proceeding from the ration of 15 roubles per day. Is this much or little? Of course, this sum is not that big, but for the sake of comparison I can say that last year the ration per private of the Russian army was slightly above 12 roubles.
Now about how financing is being carried out. We file a request to the Finance Ministry proceeding from the registered number of refugees and multiply this figure by 15 - this is per capita ration - let's assume for a month, and multiply the resultant figure by 31. As a result, we get the sum, which we must give to ensure, that this number of people gets foodstuffs or hot meals on the spot. Money is allocated from the reserve fund to compensate for the expenses made by the government of Ingushetia. Naturally, it was necessary to make an advance payment. We made such a payment, 45 million roubles, and further on, as this money was spent, the government of Ingushetia was obliged to promptly provide the respective accounting reports. Our next task was to prove the correctness of such reports in the Finance Ministry, after which a new tranche was allocated.
There was an interruption in our financing, which took place from January 1st to February 25. The point is that the government resolution on the allocation of funds for these purposes was issued in 1999; however, the year 2000 commenced and there was no government resolution on prolongation. The money was already paid from the 2000 budget. But there were not any sharp statements on this score as it was clear for everyone that the situation was tolerable. All organisations provided foodstuffs on credit and on February 25, as soon as the ban on the transfer of money was lifted, we dispatched 79 million roubles. In actual fact, we alleviated the tense situation, which had developed in the republic by that time. Overall, 265 million roubles were forwarded to the republic, of which 79 million and 40 million roubles, i.e., about 120 million roubles in all, were sent within a month. We transferred 40 million roubles yesterday since we had received the day before yesterday and the day before that the reporting documents on these 79 million roubles.
All accounts payable, which existed before the transfer of 40 million roubles, equalled 10 million roubles only. This is not a large sum of money considering the scope of money transfers and, of course, there were no grounds to stop the supply of bread or make harsh statements. I believe that the situation was artificially created and pursued some other goals not linked with the maintenance of this category of citizens.
Of course, problems are very serious there and there are a lot of them. We are fully aware of that. The Federal Migration Service is now assuming the functions, which are stipulated in its Statute. Unfortunately, not all the structures, which must work in field conditions, exist today; that is why we are experiencing certain difficulties. But for the sake of objectivity, I must say that over the past month the situation at least has not changed for the worse. I even believe that it has changed for the better. As far as financing goes, I already told you that we paid 120 million roubles out of 265 million roubles during one month. Today we have monetary reserves and the whole issue is that the government of Ingushetia must report timely and correctly on the basis of available documents. I also believe that it would have been possible to find other forms of resolving this problem, if it appeared. I spoke actually a week ago with the President of Ingushetia and said that if the problem arose, we should try to solve it together. For some reason, the Ingush President chose a different method - his appeal to Putin and statements in the mass media. In actual fact, these actions put us before the need to explain the true state of things. So, as of today, according to the documents, which we and the Finance Ministry have, and taking into account the money already paid yesterday, we do not owe a kopeck to the government of Ingushetia.
Now we are transferring refugee camps to our full maintenance. When this entire process began to unfold, with influx of a large number of people, it was the Ministry for Emergency Situations that dealt with this problem. It was busy setting up temporary refugee camps and, together with the Federal Migration Service, dealt with the problem of their maintenance. Now we are assuming full responsibility for maintenance, although this will be difficult to do. Let me repeat once again, we are creating there on the spot respective structures. Of course, some disruptions are possible. I believe that for the benefit of the entire process, we need together with the government of Ingushetia and the temporary administration on the territory of the Chechen Republic to react more calmly to some failures. Naturally, we must try to avoid them, but not to make sensational statements out of not so high-profile events. We shouldn't stir up the entire population and constantly try to create an impression that a humanitarian disaster is near or has already broken out.
This sword of Damocles has been looming over us not for the first month already. In autumn alarming statements were made: how would it be possible to spend the winter in tents, if they were not heated and there were no firewood, stoves, sanitary services, etc. However, the refugees spent the winter normally. Food was scarce, but we did not see a single person who had come to suffer from dystrophy or grown weak because of hunger. There are such people in Chechnya. There are, indeed, about 400 people there who cannot get up from their improvised beds in basements. We are now forced to evacuate them and transfer to the establishments of the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection.
On the whole, the situation in that area remains, of course, tense, and all possible missions come frequently there. Beginning with last autumn, that area was visited by the mission of the UN high commissioner for refugees, human rights activists, representatives of the parliamentary assembly, public organisations, etc. All of them note that, indeed, the situation is difficult there, but there can be no talk about any humanitarian disaster there. Now, of course, there are new problems and new tasks - the spring sets to us sanitary problems. Such a concentration of people on a small territory coupled with the shortage of water and the absence of proper sanitary conditions creates possibilities for the outbreak of epidemics. Today, together with sanitary services, we are trying to take preventive measures in this respect.
The main direction of our work, however, is to return people to the places of their permanent residence. You know that there is a state commission. Last Monday Vladimir Putin held a session in Grozny. Buildings and structures on the plains were mainly preserved, although restoration works are also needed there. It is Grozny and the mountain areas that suffered most. However, in those places, to which people can return, life support sectors have already begun to function. RAO United Energy Systems of Russia (EES Rossii) has actually restored electricity supply on the plain-based part of the republic. Gazprom is repairing gas supply lines. The population is being provided with water; schools are being restored and in many of them the academic process has been resumed. Hospitals and other public buildings are being restored. Now a commission is working there to evaluate the damage incurred and the adequacy of the housing stock. Other problems of ensuring safety and security are being resolved as it is impossible to make people return without this. There is also a set of issues, which is constantly tracked at the federal level.
PARLAMENTSKAYA GAZETA, ALEKSEYEV: What is the financial aid of foreign organisations, in particular, PACE? The second question: how does the Federal Migration Service register people moving to Chechnya and back to homes provided by Ingush households?
KHETAGUROV: The issues of coordination of humanitarian aid have been placed by a government resolution on the Ministry for Emergency Situations. It also deals with UN structures and state donors. The aid is quite considerable, especially the aid coming from the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the World Food Programme, the Red Cross and some states. But, of course, to say that the population in that zone mainly survives thanks to foreign aid would be a far-fetched statement. Overall, this constitutes about one-third of the aid, purely humanitarian, which our regions and the Russian government provide. This does not include that has been sent in a manner of emergency - to equip temporary camps, and so forth. In this case the share will be much smaller.
Now about registration records. We don't have such a clear-cut registration system, we have form No. 7 which is filled in and which, unfortunately, enables some unscrupulous persons to benefit form this. I can show you the lists. As of today we have processed only 50,000 people registered under form No. 7 to create a single data base and we have revealed there up to 10 per cent of the persons' doubles, i.e., those people who have registered twice or got compensation twice. We shall soon end this work and provide for the mass media both statistics and the names and, naturally, exclude them from those on the records. We, of course, register those who come to migration points. When people come out of the zone of combat operations, they, naturally, come to get registered to get subsidies and possibilities for employment. When they go back, we, indeed, get confronted with serious problems. It is all simple with those who return from other regions, whom we bought tickets and registered. However, it is rather difficult to deal with those who spontaneously migrate to the Chechen republic to their homes. We are now setting up a large group in Mozdok to create per-house records on the territory of Ingushetia. The situation is clear in camps: when a person leaves, this can be registered; however, this is impossible to do in the situation when refugees live together with Ingush families.
MAYAK RADIO STATION: You didn't say quite clearly that the situation is not worse than it was earlier. Does this mean that Ruslan Aushev tells a lie? Or was the money really embezzled and the situation with temporary refugees is really very difficult?
KHETAGUROV: I don't have grounds to say that this money was embezzled. We pay only for what has been confirmed by documents. We do not allocate funds just that simply. We were told 300,000 and we multiplied this figure by 15, transferred the respective sum of money, and we do not know where this money went to - no, we just make an advance payment and then get documents to see how many people were actually fed there, how much utility services cost, etc. We check all this. There is a special expert group in the Finance Ministry, which looks through these documents, takes account of money and then writes it off. Of course, there may be such facts, but I do not want to suspect anyone in Daghestan. I also had to work there, back at the time when I worked at the Ministry for Emergency Situations. I was assigned to supervise the entire Caucasian region and all work began in Daghestan first. A group of financiers led by Khristenko is going there for the fifth time already. Several criminal cases have been opened there: the heads of the local administrations add additional persons to the list of victims and these lists bear the signatures and stamps of the passport and visa service, the signature of the head of administration and so forth. When there is too much work and it is necessary to solve problems quickly, all these violations, of course, pass unnoticed. That is why I do not rule out that there can be some separate instances connected with some personal interests. But I don't have any such information or facts and I would not want to speak on this topic. Let me repeat once again that we pay only for what has been confirmed by documents.
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