11.02.2000 15:00 ON THE SITUATION IN THE NORTH CAUCASUS
VALERY L. MANILOV - Colonel General, First Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces
MANILOV: In the past week, the federal Grouping of forces carried on the success attained by the liberation of Grozny from the bandit groups. The flat part of Chechnya is now completely free of the bandit groups and priority measures are being taken there to restore the bodies of state authority and self-government, the industrial, health care, educational and social infrastructure. The psychological mood of the local population is changing. The people are coming to believe that the authorities have come to stay and there would be no turning back to the bandit arbitrariness, from which the people of Chechnya suffered in the past few years.
The situation is more complicated in the foothills, where the people are not sufficiently actively joining the efforts to restore normal life. The remaining bandit groups hope to turn the tide back and win the local population over to their side again. The commandant's offices and the departments of the Interior Ministry and special services, which are being created there, will have to work hard to expose and neutralise the bandit envoys, who have remained in the regions for the specific purpose of destabilising the situation there.
The scattered bandit groups took refuge in the mountain regions. They have some 7,000 men, roughly a half of them mercenaries and criminals, who have nothing to lose and hence would fight to the bitter end. We will have to work really hard to neutralise them.
The Argun Gorge, the area along the Argun River and Vedeno are the main bandit zones now. But the bandit groups have been encircled by our troops in the north, south and west. The northern entry to the Argun Gorge is sealed and all attempts to break out of it are doomed to failure. Our troops hold the commanding heights there, thus sealing the exit from the Argun Gorge and preventing the possible movement of the bandit groups in the settlements located along the gorge. This prevents the movement of the main group of remaining bandits from the Shatoi district to the north. The exit from the Argun Gorge has been sealed, because the settlement of Itum-Kale was liberated yesterday. So, the bandits' possible movement to the south and towards the state border at Shatili has been checked.
The liberation of Vedeno has been completed. This week we liberated Serzhen-Yurt, a vital settlement in this direction. Our troops hold the commanding heights there, with the remaining bandits and their leaders below them. Their movement and attempts to escape towards Daghestan, above all via passes from the Vedeno Gorge in the direction of the Botlikh and Tsumadinsky districts, have been blockaded.
Our units are resting now after fulfilling very difficult tasks concerned with the liberation of the special Grozny region. At the same time, they are regrouping for the third stage of the operation, to be waged in the mountain regions.
The Joint Grouping of forces firmly holds the combat initiative and is taking measures to neutralise the bandit threats of launching a so-called guerrilla war. This is a bluff and empty threats, because a guerrilla war can be waged only with popular support, but the local people do not support the bandits and terrorists. However, we must preclude possible subversive and terrorist acts. This is why the statement of Aslan Maskhadov on launching a large-scale guerrilla war is nothing other than a propaganda muscle flexing without good reason.
NTV: Is it true that the federal forces are using surface-to-surface missiles in the Argun Gorge? Can you reaffirm Raduyev's information to the effect that Vakha Arsanov is alive?
MANILOV: We have used, and will use, those weapons and means, which we have and which we must use to fulfil our tasks in the framework of laws signed by Russia and its obligations. Now about Raduyev and his information. Until we are 100% sure that reports about the death of bandit warlords is reaffirmed by objective data, we have the right to doubt them. I cannot reaffirm, or refute, reports on the death of Vakha Arsanov.
PRAVDA, BRATISLAVA: Don't you think you are overly optimistic about the guerrilla war being doomed to failure? There are historical roots for the involvement of the Chechen people in the resistance movement. There is the extremist and Moslem ideology, the Wahhabis and the experience of other countries, where such wars have continued for decades.
MANILOV: The Russian military leadership, and above all political leadership, have a realistic view of the very possibility and possible scale of the threat which subversive and terrorist acts undertaken by the bandits in Chechnya can present to Russia and the international community. This is a realistic, and not optimistic, assumption that there are no objective grounds for launching and waging a guerrilla war in the proper sense of the word there. There were such conditions in Chechnya in 1994-96, because a considerable part of the population believed in the slogans and calls of Maskhadov, Dudayev and others; they believed in the complete freedom and paradise promised to them. But they got slavery, slave trade, oppression, murders and arbitrariness instead. The main thing that many don't want to see is the change in the mentality of the Chechen people. They hate the bandits and terrorists. The bulk of those who had been recruited into bandit groups no longer want to fight, but they are forced at gunpoint to remain in the bands. If they feel the assistance of the federal centre, they would do everything to get rid of this evil.
INTERFAX: The federal forces found a refrigerator carriage with the remains of 150 Russian servicemen, who had died in the first Chechen war, in Grozny. How many servicemen did the federal forces lose this week?
MANILOV: We found two refrigerator carriages with the remains of 154 bodies at the railway terminal in Grozny. The corresponding investigation orders have been issued and the remains will be dispatched to the Rostov laboratory, where specialists would determine the time of death of these people and identify the bodies. We cannot clearly state now that these are the remains of Russian servicemen. Chechens will be involved in the identification process. We negotiated the delivery of these refrigerators to Rostov with the Chechen leaders during the past campaign and shortly after it, but the Chechen leaders neglected agreements and did not return the refrigerators.
And here are the federal losses as of today. We have published the list of those who died during the first stage of the counter-terrorist operation, after a period of hard work. We organised meetings with the families of all those who died in this war. This is a very trying job, but we are doing it. Since August 2, 1999, the Defence Ministry and the armed forces lost 970 in dead, the Interior Ministry troops and agencies lost 488 in dead, which adds up to 1,458. The armed forces lost 2,706 in wounded, and the Interior Ministry, 1,789, which adds up to 4,495. Since October 1 last year, when the second stage of the operation began, the armed forces lost 849, and the Interior Ministry, 326 in dead (total 1,175). As for the wounded, the armed forces lost 2,424 and the Interior Ministry 1,120 (total 3,544). So much for our losses.
TV CENTRE: What do you think about the withdrawal of Bislan Gantamirov? Will his militia go into the mountains or remain in Grozny?
MANILOV: I think Gantamirov needs a time-out, a breathing space. His subordinates and he took a very active part in the struggle against the bandits in the flat parts of Chechnya and Grozny. We highly evaluate the efforts and selflessness of his militiamen during mopping up operations, the checking of passports, and the exposure, neutralization or liquidation of the bandits. His subordinates will continue to take part in this work. As for the mountain regions, I cannot exclude the possibility that a part of Gantamirov's unit would work in the mountains, too. Other self-defence groups were mobilised by elders in other settlements, other groups of fighters who join the ranks voluntarily will work in the mountains.
OPEN RADIO: Did the Russian command know that the two refrigerator carriages were at the railway terminal? Why do you think these are the remains of those who died during the first war? How effectively can you use the detonation bombs in the mountains?
MANILOV: We are not sure that these are the remains of those who died in the first war, which is why we have ordered an expert examination of them. Our medics and Chechen structures negotiated the transfer of the carriages; they probably knew [what they were talking about].
As for the detonation bombs, their use against such targets as caves, tunnels and mountain fissures, meaning closed areas, is highly effective. If a bomb hits the target, it destroys everything there. Conventions or the rules of warfare do not prohibit the use of such munitions.
ECONOMIC NEWS AGENCY: Have you decided when, and what troops will be pulled out of Chechnya?
MANILOV: The deadlines have been set and the withdrawal operation has been planned. Units will be pulled out of the hostilities zone when they fulfil their combat tasks there. I cannot tell you about the dates, of course. But it has been decided which battalions and regiments would be the first to leave, and so on.
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