01.02.2000 12:00 SOCIO-ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OF THE CHECHEN REPUBLIC
Participants:
NIKOLAI P. KOSHMAN - authorised representative of the Government of the Russian Federation in the Chechen Republic, Vice Premier of the RF Government
SERGEI V. YASTERZHEMBSKY - Acting RF President assistant on informational-analytical work of federal executive organs engaged in the conducting of an anti-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus
KOSHMAN: I'd like to single out several aspects, while assessing specific developments since the moment of our last meeting.
The authorised mission of the Russian Federation's Government, as well as the interim Chechen republican administration were relocated to Gudermes January 18.
Acting Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a decree on establishing a government commission for aiding the Chechen Republic in restoring its economy and social sector. That commission worked in the republic's lowland areas, e.g. its Achkhoi-Martan, Urus-Martan, Shali, Kurchaloi, Nozhai-Yurt and Gudermes districts and the city of Argun over the January 20-25 period. The commission has prepared ample findings for Vladimir Putin and government members.
I'd like to say a few words about specific results, which were attained by the government commission. As of today, we know in great detail what should be done during the first ten days and until the end of February. Besides, we have compiled a list of our urgent tasks. As compared to the Chechen Republic's northern and central areas, the socio-economic situation in its lowland districts is much more involved. We have so far failed to restore power-transmission lines in the vicinity of Chechnya's Shali and Urus-Martan districts and Argun. This can be explained by the fact that we now face tremendous destruction there; nonetheless, we boast enough experts and money for the job. Consequently, we now have to build new power-transmission lines. Lack of electricity also poses some extremely serious water-supply problems there.
I'd like to cite just two examples in order to prove my point. The Gudermes district has 38 schools; of that number, 34 schools are open today, catering to 1,200-1,400 students each. They study in two and even three shifts. None of the Urus-Martan district's 40 schools is open at this stage just because there exist no conditions for normal work. That district lacks heat, power and supplies.
I'd like to tell you that we are now taking very tough action against all those tiny oil refineries, which are located in the vicinity of local oil pipelines, and which destroy all things living there.
The same is true of burning oil wells. As of today, 12 such oil wells continue to blaze on Chechen territory. The Russian Government is determined to extinguish them because all burning oil wells tend to seriously upset the regional environmental balance.
We estimate that the Chechen Republic's lowlands are now inhabited by 250,000-270,000 people. At present we have drafted a clear-cut action programme for restoring the republican economy. That programme has also been co-ordinated with Vladimir Putin. Plans are in place to start transmitting electricity to Chechnya's Urus-Martan and Shali districts by March 10-15. We intend to restore communications networks in all other districts by February 20. Starting with March 1, all local schools will begin to work in a well-organised manner.
Most Chechen hospitals and clinics have been destroyed, lacking elementary amenities, e.g. power, water and heat, all the same. All hospitals in Achkhoi-Martan, Urus-Martan, Shali, Kurchaloi, Nozhai-Yurt and even Vedeno would be expected to resume work by March 1. Considering the experience of Chechnya's northern districts, one can say that local destruction has not been caused by war. On the contrary, it has been caused by the dishonest destruction of the local social infrastructure.
REN-TV NEWS: We are happy to see you with us. Our colleagues have asked us to wish you good luck in your extremely difficult work. It is my pleasure to convey their best wishes.
KOSHMAN: Thank you.
REN-TV NEWS: Have they already started paying the promised 800,000 roubles to all wounded enlisted personnel and to those enlisted men, whose assignments have ended?
KOSHMAN: I'd like to repeat once again that I deal with socio-economic issues. However, Kazantsev or YASTRZHEMBSKY are responsible for all military issues. Still I want to tell you that Defence Minister Sergeyev, who attended a conference that was presided over by Putin the other day, thanked the Government for providing his ministry with all January-vintage wages for the first time in seven years.
EXPRESS CHRONICLE: What can you say about the Chechen population's moods? People accuse the Wahhabis, as well as federal authorities of their current troubles to an equal extent.
KOSHMAN: Chechnya has three regions: the north, the centre and the south. Southerners don't believe that the federals are here to stay. The central region situation is now changing. Meanwhile Chechnya's northerners are firmly convinced that the 1992 and 1996 periods will never be repeated. Their accusations mostly deal with social benefits and wage payments. Despite the fact that we used to remit pensions to northern areas, even northern retirees had failed to get their pensions for three consecutive years. Those discontented lowland teachers would also like to be paid. We proceed from the premise that local schools must be restored.
ITAR-TASS: Has the State Duma's amnesty resolution with regard to Chechen militants expired February 1? How will this issue be tackled today? Will you negotiate, or will you resort to some other ploys? According to some sources, Udugov has apparently met Osama bin Laden. What can you say about such reports? Did that meeting really take place?
KOSHMAN: As far as your second question is concerned, I don't know whether the two men have met. I know that many of Udugov's statements, which are something far-fetched, amount to wishful thinking, to put it mildly.
And now a few words about that amnesty resolution. This is my subjective opinion. Quite a few populated localities had asked us to pardon the militants in November 1999. That document, which was issued after a tete-a-tete meeting between Vladimir Putin and Gennady Seleznev, has expired February 1. We expect the Chechen side to submit the appropriate requests and to appeal to us. We are going to examine this issue, provided serious requests and appeals are available. Three highlanders contacted us in Urus-Martan yesterday, requesting the appropriate guarantees that they were covered by the afore-said amnesty resolution.
GERMAN ZDF TV: Herr Koshman, do you have any plans for restoring Grozny? I know that you have already spoken your mind on this issue. Have your plans with regard to Grozny changed in any way?
KOSHMAN: I can't say anything new. We are now trying to find 10 billion roubles for restoring lowland Chechen areas minus Grozny. That city lacks any power-transmission lines and water (with the exception of Staraya Sunzha's water conduit). The local sewers have been blown up. Power-transmission lines, water conduits, sewers, heat mains and gas mains must be restored, in the first place. We've got to defuse all local mines, for openers. After that, an influential commission will go there. We'll invite experts from other countries. At present we must start tackling the restoration of Grozny's private sector on a temporary basis.
ABC CHANNEL: Some people think that those particular militants now siding with federal forces can subsequently play the part of guerrillas. They would have no trouble finding weapons. Are you doing anything in order to screen such militants?
KOSHMAN: In my opinion, this is a very serious issue, which has caused a mixed response. First of all, unarmed militants left Grozny, carrying their severely wounded with them. They have now massed in Urus-Martan. Your scenario does present a certain danger. Still I think that special divisions now screening such militants must check them accordingly, subsequently deciding, who of them should be pardoned, and who must assume responsibility in line with Russian legislation.
INTERFAX: Do you deem it necessary to pardon all those militants, who wish to give up? How many peaceful civilians are now staying in Grozny's militant-controlled districts?
KOSHMAN: As I see it, we are going to examine all Chechen pardon requests. To my mind, 40,000-45,000 civilians are now staying in Grozny. Their plight is really bad. I visited Shali some time ago, meeting 35 people, who were taken out of Grozny, and who were accommodated at a local camp. They didn't look very well, you know.
ITAR-TASS: How do the bandits manage to reach into Chechnya? Talking to reporters some time ago, General Manilov noted that they undergo special training in other countries, France included. Is this true?
KOSHMAN: I guess Manilov is responsible for what he says. And how do the fighters reach Chechnya? They can penetrate that republic along numerous routes. For example, they reach Chechnya via Georgia; however, this is fairly unlikely today because the Russian-Chechen border has now been sealed off. Single militants can infiltrate Chechnya along just about every axis. This can be explained by the fact that Chechnya is not surrounded by a tight ring of steel, as many people believe. Nevertheless, their chances for entering Chechnya have become pretty slim today.
LE FIGARO NEWSPAPER: You have hinted that local destruction being encountered by you has been mostly caused by purposeful thefts, rather than by war. I don't quite understand, what thieves you imply.
KOSHMAN: You will see everything, which was mentioned by me, when you visit Chechnya. War-time destruction fits into just 10-15 categories. On the other hand, quite a few local facilities have been completely ransacked. Their list includes power-transmission lines, whose aluminium wires were removed and subsequently sold as ferrous-metal scrap, as well as transformer sub-stations, whose copper cells were vandalised, and demolished pylons. This was done on Maskhadov's direct orders, so as to preserve local black-outs for as long as possible, and to put republican water conduits and sewers out of commission. Apart from that, the thugs bandits removed all equipment from Chechen schools and hospitals.
TV-6: You have cited different Chechen-rehabilitation appropriations. How often will the volume of such appropriations change?
KOSHMAN: I've always said frankly that Grozny worries me. The volume of the afore-said appropriations would soar dramatically, in case we decide to restore Grozny. As of today, we can spend 10-12 billion roubles on restoring the Chechen Republic. In my opinion, we'll have to implement even more ambitious projects over the entire 2001 period.
TV-6: I'm talking about rehabilitation-and-development expenses. Don't you stipulate any republican-development appropriations?
KOSHMAN: The current state of things differs greatly from the previous situation. We are now rebuilding virtually the entire local industry. In other words, we don't deliver bricks from the Moscow region at this stage. We have re-activated brick factories in the Shelkovskoi and Tolstoi-Yurt districts and also doing our best to restore a Gudermes-based brick factory. The same can be said about sand-and-gravel deliveries. We are now seriously studying the possibility of re-activating the Duba-Yurt cement factory, the Tolstoi-Yurt poultry farm and the Alpatovo alcohol factory.
LE FIGARO: How many civilians have been killed to date?
KOSHMAN: We can estimate the number of civilian casualties only after the war comes to an end, while conducting a population census.
LE FIGARO: Did they count casualties in the liberated villages?
KOSHMAN: Such statistics are unavailable today.
LE FIGARO: How can you estimate the size of the local population in the context of the school-restoration programme, for one?
KOSHMAN: Local dwellers are being counted or re-registered since the creation of military commandants' offices and district militia departments. Such re-registration will enable us to find out the exact number of children, retirees, teachers and doctors because local militia departments boast such information. The population of liberated areas will be specified still further because some people have left for other places; still others are staying in camps. As I see it, no one will dare cite specific casualty estimates at this stage. Surely enough, the population did sustain casualties.
GERMAN ARD TV CHANNEL: Herr Koshman, can your Gudermes mission work in a calm situation? Do they attack you at night? Do the federals control Gudermes? Can you move freely there?
KOSHMAN: We live there; and we are also being fired upon. An assault-rifle grenade launcher fired three rounds at the authorised representative's building last night. True, we control the city on a regular basis.
ARD: Do they attack the already repaired building?
KOSHMAN: Yes, that's right. I used to stay inside a Grozny office back in 1995. At the time, I thought that something was amiss when they didn't fire at us on two or three occasions every day. However, such attacks had stopped all of a sudden. I think the same will happen here, too.
SLOVAKIA'S NEWS AGENCY: How can you explain the federal centre's decision to enlist the services of two Chechens, one of whom calls the other "just an ordinary criminal," for deblocking the conflict?
KOSHMAN: Whom do you mean?
SLOVAKIA'S NEWS AGENCY: This is what Saidullayev said about Gantamirov.
KOSHMAN: I've met Malik Saidullayev several times, suggesting the solution of a purely economic problem to him. Malik, who wants to be a politician, keeps offering "dead-end" programmes. As far as Beslan Gantamirov is concerned, he is tackling his own objectives rather successfully today.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: I've just communicated with the Khankala command centre. The federals have established complete control over the Minutka Square. Moreover, some federal units have moved ahead, as they continue to expand that intra-Grozny bridgehead. All high-rise buildings are controlled by assault groups. Several attempted break-outs in the direction of Staraya Sunzha and Alkhan-Kala were repelled during the night and this morning. More than 20 militants were killed at minefields along the Alkhan-Kala axis during the fighting. Some sources claim that Grozny mayor Lecho Dudayev was also killed. We still react in a rather restrained manner to such reports, which are being re-checked. You see, one can't say with 100-percent certainty that this information is true.
A militants' squad has now been blockaded in the vicinity of Alkhan-Kala. Federal forces are now destroying it. Some rather intensive combat operations are also being conducted in the Argun gorge, with the federals completely sealing off the so-called Wolf Gates, which constitute a vital strategic position. The Wolf Gates' capture makes it possible to say that a strategic road linking Chechnya with Georgia has now been virtually sealed.
The Russian Interior Ministry's officers continued to check local burial sites over the last 24 hours. For example, 275 dead persons were located in such populated localities as Znamenskoye, Urus-Martan and Shali since early 2000; of that number, 212 were shot dead. The list of such dead persons also includes 156 former militants. Five burial sites were booby-trapped. Local traffic militia squads are currently being established in Chechnya's Urus-Martan, Achkhoi-Martan and Gudermes districts, with some former militiamen asking to be reinstated. 124 criminals, including ten suspected militants and two fugitives, were apprehended over a 24 hour period. As usual, the militia have confiscated numerous weapons, e.g. six firearms, 2,000 rounds of ammunition, as well as 12 explosive devices, also destroying 17 tiny oil refineries.
Here's what the Russian Justice Ministry's penitentiary system officials have to say. The town of Novogroznensky was mopped up not so long ago, with the authorities discovering a powerful explosive device equivalent to 60 kg of TNT. That device was subsequently defused and destroyed. Justice Ministry forces also destroyed 145 rounds of ammunition during the last 24 hours.
And now a few words about the performance of Russia's Emergency Situations Ministry. An Il-76 cargo jet is to deliver hospital equipment, as well as 11 tonnes of medical supplies and automobile engines, to Mozdok today.
REUTERS: Udugov has said today that the militants have left Grozny. Is it true that Basayev underwent surgery in Alkhan-Kala, and that up to 2,000 militants are stationed there?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: The Russian high command doesn't confirm reports about that 2,000-strong militant unit. I'd like to repeat once again that a militants' squad, which has been blockaded in the vicinity of Alkhan-Kala, is currently being destroyed.
I've so far failed to obtain any authentic reports confirming Basayev's surgery. The military have also re-checked such reports; eye-witnesses are also available. However, similar reports are being circulated by the bandits rather often. Yesterday's briefing has noted the existence of a continuously operating "rumour factory", which floats rumours in order to mislead federal forces and to shift attention to secondary goals. Consequently, such information will be re-checked still further. We'll inform you, in case such reports are confirmed.
Quite possibly, we would have told you right away, if the militants had left Grozny. But the thing is that heavy fighting still continues there - near a canned-food factory and not far from the so-called former presidential palace, etc. This is particularly true of the local oil refinery. The bandits are trying to run the blockade all the time. The military believe that blockade-running attempts will continue.
LE FIGARO: What makes you say that the federals control the Minutka Square? What results will this produce?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: Minutka has now turned into a certain symbol. That square, in fact, constitutes a strategic city intersection, which is a key to many routes and highways leading into and out of Grozny. Besides, that square is surrounded by a multitude of high-rise buildings, which must also be seized. Otherwise it would be well-nigh impossible to establish control over neighbouring residential areas. The capture of the Minutka Square is a symbolic, albeit important, success. Second, that square is seen as a genuinely important strategic administrative and transport intersection.
RADIO LIBERTY: I'd like to ask you about the condition of Andrei Babitsky. Can he receive medical care? The latest reports have it that he needs to see an eye doctor. Second, what charges have been brought against him? And, third, where is he staying; and have you contacted Putin on Babitsky?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: I've already said that Babitsky has to see an eye doctor. You are simply repeating my own information. I can't add anything to yesterday's briefing. If you didn't attend that briefing, then I can tell you that Babitsky is staying in the Naursky district. True, Vladimir Ustinov, who will visit the Chechen Republic tomorrow, is going to tackle specific departmental issues. If necessary, he will deal with Babitsky's problem. I haven't received any confirmation of the fact that Babitsky's health has deteriorated. As far as I know, his request to consult an eye specialist was met the other day.
RADIO LIBERTY: And what about a lawyer? Can he see him?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: As far as I know, Babitsky has been offered a lawyer, as well as legal assistance.
RADIO LIBERTY: To my mind, such assistance was offered to him by Biryukov, who, if I'm not mistaken, flew over there on Saturday. Judging by your information, Babitsky was unable to see a lawyer for 10 consecutive days, to say the least.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: The Chechen Republic's acting prosecutor issued a warrant for Babitsky's arrest January 27. At that time, Babitsky was also offered legal assistance. No such assistance was offered prior to that because no arrest warrant existed. I think that you will receive complete information on this score tomorrow. Naturally enough, we are going to inform you because this issue really deserves public attention.
REN-TV NEWS: Do Cossack units take part in hostilities at this stage? If not, will they be put on commandant-office companies?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: I don't know whether Cossack units are involved in combat operations. If I'm not mistaken, it was suggested that they serve with commandant-office companies inside a preset area.
KOSHMAN: Such companies were formed; however, we had to discharge 35 percent of their personnel, who were unfit for such duty. Commandant-office companies are intended to guard populated localities, recruiting stations in the first place.
EXPRESS CHRONICLE: Can one speak about a turn of the tide already? What do you think on this score? Besides, what particular event would herald the end of the war? Second, I'd like to ask a question about the work of reporters. You decide, who should be admitted, or not. Don't you think that this constitutes a violation of the Law "On Mass Media Bodies?"
YASTRZHEMBSKY: The counter-terrorist operation's military phase will end after the achievement of two main goals, e.g. the capture of Grozny, as well as the liquidation of gangs in Chechnya's mountainous areas and foot-hills. Consequently, it would become possible to say that the operation's military phase is coming to an end and its "militia" phase is setting in. Certain tasks within this operation's framework are now being tackled by militia divisions and commandants' offices, which are deployed in the liberated areas.
As far as your second question is concerned, I can only agree that, unfortunately, the Russian Federation now lacks the appropriate legal base for controlling mass media actions inside various hot spots, local-conflict areas and disaster zones. This legal blank spot must be eliminated. We are doing all we can in order to enable all reporters to visit the Chechen Republic. We are going to issue new accreditation cards, which are currently being printed. We see no obstacles hindering the fulfilment of all applications. Technically speaking, all applicants will have an opportunity to visit the Chechen Republic within the framework of specific groups. Some technical problems must be resolved. Quite a few Russians working for foreign companies, who are supposed to obtain the Russian Foreign Ministry's Information and Press Department accreditation cards, possess expired cards. Technically speaking, we have every right not to admit Russian citizens working as NBC or ABC camera-men to that region. However, we turn a blind eye on the matter. We would only like the concerned employers to legalise their status and to annul all expired documents. We operate in conditions of a legal vacuum, to a certain extent, as we strive to ensure maximum possible mass media access to Chechnya. Naturally enough, we also strive to ensure the safety of reporters.
NEWSWEEK: You have mentioned a legal blank spot. Can you name any country, which boasts the required law concerning reporters' activities inside hot spots? Aren't Russia's press law and its Constitution enough for this purpose?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: The national mass media law stipulates normal mass media activities. It's crystal clear that certain restrictions are imposed in case of emergency and during combat operations. This conversation would take a lot of time. For instance, I've received a paper dealing with the actions of US and NATO countries legal institutions. I'm also sure that you personally do not suspect that your country boasts numerous documents, e.g. normative acts. I don't think that we are going to use all of their provisions; however, they do contain some reasonable provisions that we are now trying to translate into life.
GERMAN ARD TV CHANNEL: Mr. Yastrzhembsky, didn't the military say anything about the militants repeated break-outs along the south-western axis?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: This is the shortest way toward the Argun gorge where the most combat-ready and fresh guerrilla squads are now located.
RADIO LIBERTY: I'd like to find out more about accreditation issues. Will you permit reporters to listen to the other side? Will they be allowed to narrate the Chechen story?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: What do you mean by the Chechen side?
RADIO LIBERTY: For example, we've got to cover Chechen living conditions in Grozny.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: You will have an opportunity to cover the life of Chechen nationals in Grozny and the Chechen republic's liberated areas. We are now preparing such a mass media visit. Everyone will have a chance to interview local residents and to talk to them directly. I don't see any problems here. As far as Grozny is concerned, the first correspondents and cameramen have already visited the Minutka Square the other day. Mass media people will be able to report from all liberated districts.
JAPAN'S KYODO TSUSHIN NEWS AGENCY: You and other officials keep saying that the current anti-terrorist operation stipulates no concrete deadlines whatsoever. Nevertheless, General Kazantsev has said today that Grozny is to be seized within the next few days. Can you say anything on this score?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: This is a normal wording. I haven't seen this interview on Kazantsev's part. If he did say this, then he has every reason for making such forecasts. I don't see any deadlines here.
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