26.01.2000 15:00 ON THE COURSE OF THE ANTI-TERRORIST OPERATION IN THE NORTH CAUCASUS
Participants:
SERGEI V. YASTERZHEMBSKY - Acting RF President assistant on informational-analytical work of federal executive organs engaged in the conducting of an anti-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus
VALERY L. MANILOV - First Deputy Head of the Russian Armed Forces General Staff, Colonel General;
MIKHAIL V. MARGELOV - Chief of the Russian Information Centre (Rosinformcentr)
:
MARGELOV: We are presenting a new model of operation today. The Russian authorities have been seeking a more efficient model of informing the population and the media about developments in the North Caucasus with allowance for the international experience. The model, can be said, to have been formed.
I would like you to meet Sergei Yastrzhembsky in his new capacity, that of coordinator of the coverage of the situation in the North Caucasus, and Valery Manilov, our traditional guest and First Deputy Head of the General Staff.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: The topic of our meetings in this hall, the situation in the Chechen Republic and in the North Caucasus as a whole, is of exceptional importance for Russia's life. The topic has also been in the focus of international attention. Rosinformcentr's formation has come as a timely step; it is the venue for the large collection of domestic and foreign media that we see in this hall.
A few words about the manner in which we want to work starting today. In pursuance of a decree, the Defence Minister has devised and signed the order to form an information centre at the operations staff in charge of the counter-terrorist operation in the North Caucasus, a part of the Russian Federation. Let me read out an excerpt from that order.
"First Deputy Head of the Russian Armed Forces General Staff Colonel General Manilov shall be placed in charge of the information centre at the operations staff. Chiefs of information structures of the Defence Ministry, the Interior Ministry, the Federal Security Service, the Federal Frontier Service, the Ministry of Justice, the Federal Service of Railroad Troops, the Federal Agency of Government Communications and Information, the Ministry of Civil Defence and the Emergencies Ministry shall be deputies to the head of the information centre".
The list of agencies that are dispatching their representatives to the information centre will grow. As the territory of the Chechen Republic is liberated from bandit formations, the problem of restoring normal life, economy and administrative system of the Chechen Republic will arise, and other agencies will be coming to the foreground.
The information centre will operate under the operational guidance of this assistant to the Russian Federation President in accordance with the Russian Federation President's Decree 82 of January 20. Such is the organisational and legal basis for our work.
The work has got underway, in the course of my trip to the North Caucasus. I have met with your colleagues in Mozdok. It has been an exceptionally useful meeting, because problems in the work of the media in the North Caucasus are many. There are objective and subjective reasons. There is the problem of a shortage of material resources. There is a degree of misunderstanding when representatives of the state authority face the media. The things, I have been told in Mozdok, have been a great help to me.
I think we will amend the system of journalists' accreditation. There will be a single system of accreditation, and the accreditation card of a journalist will become the main document whose legitimacy does not have to be certified.
The introduction of a single accreditation card does not affect the regulations of visiting military installations, bases which have their own ID systems - this rule applies all over the world.
In the very near future we will insistently require that the media should introduce obligatory insurance for their correspondents working in the North Caucasus. In Russia, this practice is not yet widely used.
We suggest working via two information centres in the Chechen Republic. One of them, the main one, will be stationed in Mozdok. Seventy reporters will be accredited at it. Premises have been allocated to house the united temporary press centre of the press services of the Defence Ministry, the Interior Ministry and the troops of the interior. The press centre has to be equipped within the shortest possible period - literally from scratch.
We will also build an advanced, or rotation, press centre in Khankala. Up to 15 people accredited and working in Mozdok will go to Khankala for three days to be in the midst of events and work in city, and then return to Mozdok. As the epicentre of hostilities will shift to another part of the Chechen Republic, the rotation press centre will be moved to stay close to the united staff.
One more information lever: the press service of Nikolai Koshman is preparing to start working. The peaceful life, economic activities and the restoration of the Chechen Republic's administrative and legal systems should also be in focus.
In Moscow, we suggest, as of today, to start staging briefings daily, at 3 p.m. here in Rosinformcentr. Every Friday, Valeri Manilov will be reporting to you about developments of the week, data of losses included. There are thus only two official newsmakers empowered to provide official commentaries and information about what is happening in the Chechen Republic. We are they.
MANILOV: We have said on more than one occasion that the operation in the North Caucasus combines four main components: political, socio-economic, information and military. This assistant to the Acting President has been empowered to provide operational guidance of this work, and we are counting on your help in order to bring home all aspects of the operation in full to the Russian and foreign public.
The situation in the zone of the counter-terrorist operation is under full control of the United Grouping and the Russian leadership. The main sources of resistance today are in Grozny, in that part of the city that has not yet been liberated of bandit formations. Our troops, moving forward step by step and closing the circle, are now on the approaches to the Minutka Square, the 15th military garrison, and the 3rd and 4th boroughs. Some 70% of the territory is privately owned housing, a lot of homes. This part of Grozny has not been enveloped by hostilities or subjected to strikes. The main strikes are delivered at the Staropromyslovsky, Oktyabrsky and Leninsky districts and the city's administrative part and multi-story buildings. Rebels have turned these parts into stationary strongholds and the approaches to them have been mined. The troops can only move forward after they overcome rabid resistance of their formations. The total number of bandits approximates 3,000, and a half of them are foreign mercenaries, the well-trained and adamant part of the formations, and a half of them are prepared to fight to the end. This is one explanation for the complexity of operations conducted by the specially founded units that break the remaining formations into parts and then annihilate them.
Bandits are increasingly more often trying to leave the city. Their attempts are futile. While making these attempts, the bandits suffer big losses.
Another source of resistance is in the foothills, the entrance to the Argun and Sharo-Argun gorges. We have airlifted paratroopers there to take the commanding heights in the Southwestern and Southeastern directions. We have managed to block the gorges where bandit formations used to be freely moving. The main entrances to the Argun and Sharo-Argun gorges have been taken under control in the North. Vedeno is under control. Our positions in the South, along the road of Itum-Kale - Shatili, have been further reinforced. The border guards have staged a field operation and filled the space along the state frontier. They have built and are manning checkpoints and all mobile groups that stand in the way of rebels' movement to and from Chechnya.
Army troops have closed the Botlikh direction and the border with Daghestan. This will help narrow the room for maneuver for the bands of Basayev and Khattab with the total numerical strength of 6,000-8,000 and facilitate their eventual rout.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: We will be providing not only our own information about combat operations, but also information of all agencies and ministries directly involved in various activities in the Chechen Republic. Today is the first experience, and information has been received from practically all these organisations. I will try to summarise it for you.
Information received from the Interior Ministry. In the past 24 hours, the Interior Ministry's troops have been patrolling those villages and towns of the Chechen Republic which have been liberated of bandit formations, enforcing public order and security, and creating conditions for the return of refugees. Temporary interior bodies are operating in 11 districts of Chechnya. The Russian Interior Ministry's department for the Chechen Republic has moved from Mozdok to Gudermes. Since the start of the counter-terrorist operation, the interior bodies in Chechnya have registered 1,105 crimes, of which 489 have been solved. Close to 7,000 suspects have been detained, including 56 wanted criminals, and 237 members of bandit formations. Over 800 handguns, over 70,000 rounds of ammunition, 240 kilos of explosives, 45 kilos of narcotics have been arrested. As many as 710 illicit mini-refineries have been destroyed.
The Federal Frontier Service reports that they fought their latest combat in the Argun gorge on January 24 when border guards were shelled by a group of 15 bandits and opened fire to repel the attack. On the Russian - Georgian border, intensive work is underway to equip the checkpoints and positions, and reinforced patrols are sent out. In the past 24 hours, no trespassers have been detained on the Russian-Georgian border. On the Russian - Azeri sector, three citizens of Azerbaijan have been arrested while crossing the border from Russia and to Azerbaijan.
A report by the main department for the North Caucasus of the Russian Prosecutor General's office. Ever since November of last year, it runs a special section for the verification of compliance with the laws in the Chechen Republic. The department's Chief Kiselyov Igor Ivanovich, is in parallel the prosecutor of the Chechen Republic. The prosecutors of the Nadterechnaya, Naurskaya, Shelkovskaya and Gudermes districts have been appointed and started working. The prosecutors of the Shali and Achkhoy-Martan districts have been appointed since the beginning of January and have started working. The district prosecutors, and the temporary bodies of the interior have detained and arrested over 500 persons on charges of grave crimes and membership in illicit armed formations. One of the latest and the more noticeable cases: the Shelkovskaya district prosecutor's office arrested a Ramzes Goychayev, 1978, who has committed a dozen homicides of Russian residents of the Chervlennaya village in 1997-99. Shariah courts have known the information, but no measures were applied to Goychayev. This coming February, courts will consider at least ten criminal cases instituted following crimes committed in the Chechen Republic. The staffs of the prosecutor's offices focus on identifying and bringing to justice participants in illicit armed formations.
Information received from the Emergencies Ministry. As of today, over 94,000 persons have returned to their domiciles. As many as 8,967 persons have left Grozny via humanitarian corridors, including several dozens in the past 24 hours. There are seven temporary camps in Ingushetia that provide shelter to over 25,000 people, and 92,000 people have returned to their homes. Medical assistance in all camps is provided at clinics of the Health Ministry of the Republic of Ingushetia and the international organisation Medicins Sans Frontiers. The volume of extraordinary assistance has topped 9,000 tonnes.
In the past few days, the number of people who cross into Ingushetia via the Kavkaz checkpoint has remained on the level of close to 1,900 a day. At the same time, the number of people crossing the border into the Chechen Republic has grown to approximate 1,000 a day.
QUESTION: Sergei Stepashin said a week ago that there had been plans to invade Chechnya in March of last year. Can you acknowledge or reject this information? Why has it been decided to continue the operation until the whole of the Chechen territory is seized instead of building a cordon sanitaire? Does the Russian leadership still see Aslan Maskhadov as the legitimate leader of the Chechen Republic?
MANILOV: The allegations that this operation was planned as far back as last March are not true. We did not plan any operation stipulating either the creation of a sanitary cordon or the elimination of a terrorist army, which would have invaded Daghestan. We were forced to take this measure following the aggressive actions by large groups of terrorists and bandits who had taken hostage a number of regions and helmets in Daghestan. This was when the present counter-terrorist operation was launched. After the liberated regions of Daghestan began restoring normal life, the bandit groups and their leaders who had managed to escape to Chechnya carried out a number of new terrorist actions and made threats to perpetrate new aggressive actions in neighbouring regions of the Russian Federation. We were forced to continue the activities of our forces and begin the liberation of the Chechen Republic from terrorist groups.
This is how the second stage of the counter-terrorist operation began. It was completed on November 25, 1999. However, the liberation of the flat part of Chechnya's territory did not guarantee that there would be no new aggressive attacks and subversive and terrorist actions by groups of bandits who retained their positions in Grozny and in the mountains. That is why we planned the present, third, stage of the counter-terrorist operation. It is nearing completion now.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: The second question concerns Maskhadov. The man who has been elected president of one of the constituent territories of the Russian Federation in violation of its Constitution and laws and who, on top of everything else, has no possibilities whatsoever to keep the situation in the Chechen Republic under control, has no legitimacy.
REN-TV NEWS (a question to Yastrzhembsky): Sergey Vladimirovich, to what degree can we hold out against the West's obvious pressure, if not an information war, over Chechnya? Why have some mass media suddenly changed their position on the Chechen problem lately?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: I do not have the impression that the West is waging any systematic information war against Russia. A certain negative trend does exist. But there are vast differences of opinions and understanding with regard to what is taking place in Chechnya. The latest visit of a PACE delegation to Moscow and the Chechen Republic, to a considerable degree, has been an eye-opener for many people in the West. Such visits are incredibly productive, and they should be continued. I would like to stress the productive work of the Interior Ministry leadership who provided all the necessary conditions during that visit. The more efforts to get first-hand information about the real state of affairs in the Chechen Republic, the better chance we will have to change the present situation in the sphere of information and to make its negative vector at least neutral.
I think that we have not provided the foreign press corps with sufficient information opportunities. I am assuming this task. Naturally, we may not assure access to all the places of interest to you because of the specific laws of the wartime, which should be observed.
Changes in the tonality of covering the situation in the North Caucasus, which we notice in some mass media, appear under the influence of the forthcoming presidential election campaign. Some mass media and the forces, which stand behind them, have their own interests in the presidential race. Unfortunately, they regard the appraisal of the developments in the Chechen Republic as part of their coverage of the presidential election campaign. I think that the current events in Chechnya are Number One Priority for all of us in Russia, regardless of political orientation and no matter which mass media group we represented or represent. There are national tasks, and they should be handled jointly. Only in that case we can regard ourselves as an integral nation.
MILITARY NEWS AGENCY: Very contradictory data on the number of militants in Chechnya and the casualties sustained by federal forces have been given since the beginning of the Chechen campaign. Do you have any real possibility to specify and make public the precise number of Chechen fighters and their casualties and the casualties of the federal forces in Chechnya?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: You will receive the toll of federal casualties here each Friday. The question about unification of statistics is quite legitimate, as there are vast differences in statistics that are given.
MANILOV: As I have already said, at the moment of its aggression against Daghestan the terrorist army numbered between 22,000 and 25,000 men. I want to recall that more than two thousand terrorists were killed during the liberation of Daghestan and about five thousand during the second stage of the operation, when the flat part of Chechnya's territory was being liberated. Upwards of four thousand have been killed at the current third stage. As of today, these statistics are confirmed by different sources: about ten thousand bandits and terrorists have been killed.
Our forces sustain very heavy casualties. Our military and political leadership headed by Vladimir Putin has taken an unprecedented decision to make public the total number of our losses. No country in the world has ever made public the total number of its casualties while hostilities are still on.
RADIO LIBERTY: Is there any information about our Moscow office correspondent Andrei Babitsky? According to our information, he has left Grozny a few days ago and could have been detained by federal forces.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: I know that Mr. Babitsky disappeared after he left Grozny. We are taking steps to find out where your correspondent might be. I would say that his is a very indicative case, and it should help us to find a correct formula of joint work. It is only natural that his safety has not been guaranteed. Mr. Babitsky was not been accredited by us on the territory of the Chechen Republic. It is an example of how no one should behave in a war situation.
PRAVDA, YUGOSLAVIA: Two questions for Mr. Yastrzhembsky. Conducting negotiations and working for a political settlement of the conflict is one of the PACE's conditions. With what forces, in your opinion, can the negotiations be conducted at present? Should it be Gantamirov? And my second question is: What kind of international support can Chechen militants receive, in particular, from the Taliban or any other Arab regime? According to some information, Chechen representatives allegedly were accompanied by one of Poland's ministers at the PACE conference. How vast is this support?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: Your first question is a strange blend of notions, because you name those forces which are already cooperating most actively with the federal authorities as probable partners in negotiations. There is no shortage of cooperation with Gantamirov or the leaders of the Chechen diaspora.
If you have in mind the opposite side, there are no people among the leaders of bandit formations who could be negotiating partners of the federal authorities. The terms of the federal Centre are well known, and no dialogue is possible unless they are fulfiled. These terms include, first and foremost, the release of all hostages and the giving out of international terrorists.
International support for the bandit regime which ruled in Chechnya is not as vast as it seems. Global concern about the fate of the civilian population of the Chechen Republic should not be confused with international support for Chechen terrorists. There are no differences between the international community and Moscow on this issue. Our position that terrorist gangs must be eliminated is supported and shared in the world, as what is happening in Chechnya is a threat not only to Russia.
MANILOV: No country in the world, including the Arab nations, gives the bandit terrorist regime of Chechnya any moral, physical, financial or any other kind of support. However, it receives tangible support from international terrorist organisations. Dozens of such organisations are scattered around the world - in the US, in Europe, in the Near and Middle East and in Central Asia. They all actively support the nest of terrorism in Chechnya by collecting and transferring money and other resources to Chechen terrorists.
I want to remind you that Khattab is the plenipotentiary envoy of the world league which calls itself "Moslem Brethren". Huge funds and other resources are transferred for him and Basayev. Last December alone, extremist organisations in the US transferred for the leaders of Chechen bandit groups 4.5 million dollars along mountain routes.
International extremist organisations systematically train mercenaries in the territory of Afghanistan and a number of other countries, including such European countries as Britain and France. Usama bin Laden has concluded an agreement with Khattab and Basayev to train five thousand mercenaries of different ethnic origin.
The channels of arms and military hardware deliveries for bandit groups have now been closed. However, not very long ago there was a continued flow of such deliveries, which included modern weaponry. The international community should stop this kind of support. We have agreed with Georgia to conduct a joint operation under the code name of Zaslon (Barrier). We are also seriously cooperating with the US and NATO countries.
Dozens of sites on Internet service Chechen terrorists. They are well paid. Dozens of information centres spread lies and misinformation. Aware of the imminent threat, we should work jointly to thwart it.
QUESTION (to Manilov): Valery Leonidovich, how do you appraise the work of the Soldiers' Mothers Committee which collects information on the missing in action through its own channels, arriving at absolutely different conclusions?
MANILOV: We work in close contact with this Committee and various other organisations which unite under the sacred name of soldiers' mothers. It is a very heterogeneous structure of organisations which often stand on mutually excluding positions. Their most irreconcilable part is headed by women who have no sons. They are provided with means for their "lofty" mission and work this money off. Our attitude to their information, which is, in fact, misinformation, is sharply negative. Their statistics are not true. We are keeping the lists of names and know the name of each officer, sergeant and soldier who has given up his life in the line of duty.
The statistics offered by some committees exceed our casualties 3- and 10-fold. They are absolutely untrue. This is very dangerous for the nation and for forming the mentality of the growing generation. Someone has to defend his Fatherland. The names of other mothers come to mind: they bless their sons for fulfiling the duty of a soldier. Could you imagine what would happen if no one stood up to protect the country and its people?
QUESTION: How can you explain discrepancies concerning the time schedule of the seizure of Grozny? General Troshev said that this operation would be completed on February 26. Who has assumed the initiative to enter Grozny?
MANILOV: Forecasting such things is an incredibly thankless task. I do not give any time schedule guarantees. The liberation of Grozny from terrorists is a matter of days, not months. But life, as ever, makes its corrections. The leaders of terrorist groups managed (while Grozny was encircled on the outside) to concentrate enough forces to put up fierce resistance. Developments could have been stepped up, but we think that not a single soldier's or officer's life may be sacrificed. That is why we will not accelerate developments. We do not set the goal to liberate Grozny by a certain date. Our goal is to eliminate the powerful part of terrorist groups so as they should not turn out in the rear of our troops and should not rise alive from the ashes like the phoenix.
QUESTION: Western news media and some politicians regard the actions in Chechnya as a necessary condition for the growth of Putin's popularity. How strong is this linkage, in your opinion?
YASTRZHEMBSKY: Such a supposition is cynical and absolutely untrue. There is no linkage between the Chechen events and the forthcoming presidential election campaign in Russia. The price of the matter is too high to permit such a linkage.
REUTERS (a question to Yastrzhembsky): Sergey Vladimirovich, what is your attitude to the proposal to publish the names of the killed? I do not think that there would be no shortage of sites or newspapers for this, and it would be a sufficiently easy way to compare the names you would publish with what mothers say. Everything would become clear.
YASTRZHEMBSKY: I am rather cautious of such proposals, to put it mildly. Until the operation to eliminate or neutralise bandit groups is over, the danger that outrages can be committed with regard to relatives of the killed servicemen who fulfiled their duty in Chechnya will exist. These are not empty words. I know that serious cases of this kind have already happened. In my opinion, this will be a justified and legitimate question after the completion of the operation.
THE CHRISTIAN WORLD REPORT: Do you have any statistics of casualties among Chechnya's civilian population with the exception of those which Mr. Ivanov, who heads your Security Council, has given here, those who have been killed by Chechen separatists?
MANILOV: It is very difficult to give the total number of casualties among civilians until we liberate the entire territory of the Chechen Republic. This is connected with the need to verify all the facts. Such work is already being done in the liberated regions of Chechnya. Some facts of mystification, when exhumation showed that people buried in a common grave had been executed by bandits, have already been disclosed.
The allegations of tens of thousands or, at least, ten thousand victims among the civilian population, which such messengers of Chechen bandits as Ilyaz Akhmadov, foreign minister of a non-existent state, try to spread in the West, are lies. According to our estimates, probable civilian casualties run into no more than several hundred. We are sorry that this could not have been avoided, first of all, because terrorists follow their favourite tactics, using civilians as a live shield.
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